Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: Hand Position - Page1

Jun 8, 2008 10:14:36 AM

Pentium: Rennteam Master; Loc: Earth , Romania; Posts: 3054, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 27, 2003; Reply to: MMD

Re: Hand Position

I believe that all this talk about the gear switching buttons or paddles is for nothing. You will learn the new system no matter what it is. And you will have fun doing the learning

What I find strange is that in Formula1, those guys have the money to implement any kind of buttons/paddles/switches they want and they are using paddles placed on the steering wheel. Not on the column like on Ferrari's road cars. So for me that is the best system. If that system was wrong they would change it, don't you think?

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Jun 8, 2008 10:20:42 AM

palenimbus: Expert; Loc: Baden-Württemberg, Germany; Posts: 1824, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 6, 2004; Reply to: Pentium

Re: Hand Position

It's been said here before I think, but that's because the F1 cars have very small turning ratios compared to the road car.

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Jun 8, 2008 10:21:44 AM

mex99: Pilot; Loc: UK; Posts: 335, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 28, 2008; Reply to: Pentium

Re: Hand Position

Pentium - it means it is the best system for their application; in this case F1.

I believe the Porsche pdk system will prove to be the best system for their application, ie enthusiastic drivers, a balance of road and track and functional for 200 000 miles wit minimal servicing.

Different playing fields!

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Jun 8, 2008 1:33:38 PM

Gnil: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: VD, Switzerland , Switzerland; Posts: 14171, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 11, 2005; Reply to: mex99

Re: Hand Position

My main concern is that PDK is aimed at the Tip clients.... So, is the compromise too much on the confort part, or does this system still leave enough room for a sport feeling ?
Is PDK with sport chrono plus very different to the normal setting ?
I wonder if on the GT3 they will keep the puddles or go for paddles ?

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Jun 8, 2008 1:56:26 PM

fritz: Rennteam VIP; Loc: BaWü , Germany; Posts: 10248, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 23, 2003; Reply to: Gnil

Re: Hand Position

Quote:
Gnil said:
My main concern is that PDK is aimed at the Tip clients.... So, is the compromise too much on the confort part, or does this system still leave enough room for a sport feeling ?
Is PDK with sport chrono plus very different to the normal setting ?
I wonder if on the GT3 they will keep the puddles or go for paddles ?

Le Chef, Rossi! What have we done?

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Jun 8, 2008 1:57:38 PM

CarreraTT: Newbie; Loc: Spectacular Portland Oregon; Posts: 39, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 26, 2008; Reply to: MKW

Re: PDK Paddle Comp: What do you think?

Quote:
Plus, how sporty is it in hand -over hand -turning

Why would you want to do that?

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Jun 8, 2008 2:03:26 PM

CarreraTT: Newbie; Loc: Spectacular Portland Oregon; Posts: 39, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 26, 2008; Reply to: MKW

Re: PDK Paddle Comp: What do you think?

Quote:
Recall how many of us in the 1980s used to rotate the 911's speedometer counter-clockwise so we could see the upper scale better but still the smaller gauges on the wider spaced instrument cluster were never really fully readable without moving your head left /right/up/down.

Never did this with the speedometer. But, yeah, everyone pried the tach out (the separate, big gauge in the middle of the array) and spun it about 120 degrees counterclockwise so that the redline was at the 12 o'clock position.

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Jun 8, 2008 2:08:18 PM

CarreraTT: Newbie; Loc: Spectacular Portland Oregon; Posts: 39, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 26, 2008; Reply to: Pentium

Re: Hand Position

Quote:
What I find strange is that in Formula1, those guys have the money to implement any kind of buttons/paddles/switches they want and they are using paddles placed on the steering wheel. Not on the column like on Ferrari's road cars. So for me that is the best system. If that system was wrong they would change it, don't you think?

Bingo!

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Jun 8, 2008 2:10:55 PM

997nipandtuck: Newbie; Loc: US & UK , United States; Posts: 20, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 19, 2008; Reply to: fritz

Re: PDK Paddle Comp: What do you think?

Quote:
fritz said:
Quote:
Gnil said:
The most important question is:
Should these paddles - buttons be called puttles or baddles ?

A few of us had already reluctantly got used to puddles.

How about BUTTLES

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Jun 8, 2008 2:16:23 PM

fritz: Rennteam VIP; Loc: BaWü , Germany; Posts: 10248, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 23, 2003; Reply to: CarreraTT

Re: Hand Position

Quote:
CarreraTT said:

Quote:
What I find strange is that in Formula1, those guys have the money to implement any kind of buttons/paddles/switches they want and they are using paddles placed on the steering wheel. Not on the column like on Ferrari's road cars. So for me that is the best system. If that system was wrong they would change it, don't you think?

Bingo!

F1 car steering wheels only need maybe 1 turn lock-to-lock whereas a road car has 3+ turns, so comparison with F1 is pretty much irrelevant.

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Jun 8, 2008 2:28:29 PM

CarreraTT: Newbie; Loc: Spectacular Portland Oregon; Posts: 39, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 26, 2008; Reply to: Gnil

Re: Hand Position

Quote:
My main concern is that PDK is aimed at the Tip clients....

Why would you think that? If Porsche just wanted to keep Tip clients happy, they could've saved a quarter of billion Euros' development costs and just kept the Tip.

Porschephiles have been clamoring over the late-to-market PDK for a decade. It is clearly a faster (for track and spirited driving) gearbox. Most likely, the rumored reason for the delay in development was a keen desire for reliability and endurance. Ask any Ferrari 360/430 owner: Ferrari's F1 gearbox tears up $7,500 clutches at the rate of one every 5,000 miles. Plus, they cannot be back up a hill without billowing white, acrid clutch smoke.

The double-clutch was the way to go, Porsche wanted to make sure they did it right. And not bankrupt the company with warranty claims or bad PR for clutch failures.

I predict that beginning with the 2010 model year, at least 50%, probably more, will be ordered with PDK. Certainly once the initial demand is satisifed and dealers start ordering cars for on-hand inventory, most of those will be PDK.

Does anyone know if Porsche is building the gearbox/clutch themselves or if they are sourcing it from a supplier (and if so, if that firm has any involvement in the Audi and/or BMW double-clutch gearboxes)?

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Jun 8, 2008 2:45:11 PM

SoCal Alan: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Orange County , United States; Posts: 7268, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 6, 2004; Reply to: CarreraTT

Re: Hand Position

I've had a manual transmission on all my vehicles, when given a choice. But I'm willing to try out the PDK. Of course, I'll need a pretty long test drive before I commit to see if I really like it. But the way I look at it is, it's not just for performance, it's got to be fun to use. Otherwise, what's the point. I'm not intending to race other cars with this vehicle. That's why I would never consider getting a tip because, even though it is faster than the manual (at least the 997TT is), driving around in an auto-box is not my idea of fun. Using 'puddles' to control a dual clutch gearbox and having the system rev-match on down-shifts sounds really great but would I have more fun driving with that system or the basic manual, I don't know yet. But I'm open to try.

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Jun 8, 2008 2:51:20 PM

Pentium: Rennteam Master; Loc: Earth , Romania; Posts: 3054, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 27, 2003; Reply to: fritz

Re: Hand Position

Fritz, even in a road sport car I don't think you want to change up or down a gear if your steering wheel is turned more than once. Maybe that's why F cars placed the paddles on the steering column? To avoid errors from less professional drivers? If that's the case, I don't like systems that are placing any kind of gear changing switches on the steering wheel, especially in the area Porsche placed the "buddles" (buttons+paddles) LOL

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Jun 8, 2008 2:53:46 PM

Pentium: Rennteam Master; Loc: Earth , Romania; Posts: 3054, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 27, 2003; Reply to: Pentium

Re: Hand Position

And yes, I HATE multifunction steering wheels... with the exception of one beloved manettino hi hi hi

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Jun 8, 2008 3:37:18 PM

fritz: Rennteam VIP; Loc: BaWü , Germany; Posts: 10248, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 23, 2003; Reply to: Pentium

Re: Hand Position

Quote:
Pentium said:
Fritz, even in a road sport car I don't think you want to change up or down a gear if your steering wheel is turned more than once.

I agree with that certainly, but - unlike an F1 car - a road car does not allow the driver to always have his thumbs near buttons or paddles, regardless of where they are sited.
My point was just that drawing an analogy to F1 practice is irrelevant for the reason just explained.

I have found in the past that both wheel-mounted Tiptronic toggles and Ferrari/Lambo column-mounted paddles had their advantages and disadvantages, and it was just a question of getting accustomed to using them.

I'd want to try out the PDK toggles myself before forming an opinion on them, instead of just jumping to conclusions.

It has just occured to me after reading the posts on this subject over the last 2 days that if "jumping to conclusions" were an Olympic event, rennteam could put up a pretty good team for Beijing!

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Jun 8, 2008 3:56:22 PM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: Gnil

Re: Hand Position

Quote:
Gnil said:
My main concern is that PDK is aimed at the Tip clients.... S

Hummm..., good point. I wonder who they might be?

(kidding) But hard to explain this Ad photo:

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Jun 8, 2008 4:12:29 PM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: Pentium

Re: Hand Position

Quote:
Pentium said:
And yes, I HATE multifunction steering wheels...

Just for fun:

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Jun 8, 2008 4:18:40 PM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: MMD

Re: Hand Position

Here's one that's more educational:

BTW, switch 10 looks like a good one.

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Jun 8, 2008 5:23:38 PM

fritz: Rennteam VIP; Loc: BaWü , Germany; Posts: 10248, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 23, 2003; Reply to: MMD

Re: Hand Position

Quote:
MMD said:
Here's one that's more educational:

BTW, switch 10 looks like a good one.

Switch 20 would appear to explain the J D Power survey results that Dr Phil posted today!

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Jun 8, 2008 5:24:59 PM

Pentium: Rennteam Master; Loc: Earth , Romania; Posts: 3054, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 27, 2003; Reply to: MMD

Re: Hand Position

LOL good one MMD

Time to say... that doesn't count?

OK, OK, if the steering wheel can turn at max only once than the switches are OK. Is this better?

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Jun 8, 2008 6:12:06 PM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: Pentium

Re: Hand Position

Quote:
Pentium said:
LOL good one MMD

Time to say... that doesn't count?

OK, OK, if the steering wheel can turn at max only once than the switches are OK. Is this better?

HeHe.., I guess going 190+mph is a good reason too. Probably also why there're no cup holders in F1 cars.

I kinda agree with you though for P-cars. OTOH, I use my MF on my Bimmer a lot because it's a more "relaxed" drive mostly (which is kinda contradictory when you think about it).

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Jun 8, 2008 11:04:29 PM

MKW: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Palo Alto and North Lake Tahoe , United States; Posts: 2491, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 22, 2002; Reply to: CarreraTT

Re: PDK Paddle Comp: What do you think?

Quote:
CarreraTT said:

Quote:
Recall how many of us in the 1980s used to rotate the 911's speedometer counter-clockwise so we could see the upper scale better but still the smaller gauges on the wider spaced instrument cluster were never really fully readable without moving your head left /right/up/down.

Never did this with the speedometer. But, yeah, everyone pried the tach out (the separate, big gauge in the middle of the array) and spun it about 120 degrees counterclockwise so that the redline was at the 12 o'clock position.

Of course I did that ,too . But spinning the speedo was mandatory unless you never exceeded 100 mph ( uh..on the track of course ).

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Jun 9, 2008 7:08:17 AM

Cram: Expert; Loc: french area , Switzerland; Posts: 1618, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 28, 2005; Reply to: MKW

Re: PDK Paddle Comp: What do you think?

Another pic from the inside

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Jun 9, 2008 7:22:13 AM

intouch1: Rennteam Master; Loc: Red Sea , Egypt; Posts: 5752, Gallery; Registered on: May 22, 2004; Reply to: Cram

Re: PDK Paddle Comp: What do you think?

wheel looks terrible in that last pic.

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Jun 9, 2008 7:52:53 AM

reginos: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Nicosia , Cyprus; Posts: 12130, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 20, 2005; Reply to: intouch1

Re: PDK Paddle Comp: What do you think?

Quote:
intouch1 said:
wheel looks terrible in that last pic.

When I first saw the wheel on Friday I hated it. Now after only 3 days it looks better and better. Having said that, I hope it can be optioned differently e.g. all black or all leather. Does anyone know the exclusive options for the st. wheel?

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Jun 9, 2008 8:03:42 AM

Italo: Veteran; Loc: UK , United Kingdom; Posts: 1055, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 29, 2007; Reply to: reginos

Re: PDK Paddle Comp: What do you think?

funny enough I seem to like the wheel

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Jun 9, 2008 3:35:56 PM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: Italo

Re: PDK Paddle Comp: What do you think?

HeHe..., I just realized something. All that b*tch*ing I and others here did about the Volcano Grey trim and the "excessive buttonage" (too many black buttons on a puddle of grey) might have gotten thru to Porsche. LOL.

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Jun 9, 2008 4:06:10 PM

STRADALE: Rennteam VIP; Loc: NY , United States; Posts: 11075, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 9, 2005; Reply to: MMD

Re: PDK Paddle Comp: What do you think?

I'm sorry what am I looking at here, the new 997 w/ PDK?

Dont tell me they left the buttons on the steering wheel

That's hysterical. Cant be.

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Jun 9, 2008 4:33:04 PM

SciFrog: Rennteam VIP; Loc: USA , United States; Posts: 9870, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 15, 2005; Reply to: STRADALE

Re: PDK Paddle Comp: What do you think?

Quote:
STRADALE said:
I'm sorry what am I looking at here, the new 997 w/ PDK?

Dont tell me they left the buttons on the steering wheel

That's hysterical. Cant be.

Can't believe it either.
Obviously they expect PDK users to drive the car on "D" all the time, like on the old tip...

How do they expect us to change gear when the wheel is turned over 180deg?

Good thing I don't plan to buy a 911 anytime soon, that would be a deal breaker.

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Jun 9, 2008 5:04:58 PM

Alex18_996CC: Rennteam Master; Loc: Madrid , Spain; Posts: 3218, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 13, 2004; Reply to: SciFrog

Re: PDK Paddle Comp: What do you think?

guys I love the steering wheel and pdk's button, cant imagine I am the only one who likes it....

Now, what the heck is that telephone doing there????, I thought the sim card slot was there to replace the historic piece of block, I mean telephone

seriously, I love the steering wheel and the pdk buttons

....Also I just noticed the flat shape the steering wheel has at the bottom, just like the Audi R8 etc..., the pdk gear shift also looks like the R-tronic for the R8, how interesting !!!!

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