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    Re: 997 facelift more info

    Quote:
    DaveC said:
    PDK was bound to be compromised when Porsche decided to make it a substitute for the Tiptronic. I has presumed, erroneously, that PDK would be a third transmission choice priced higher than the Tip, as an enthusiast alternative similar to the Ferrari F1. Once PDK became the new Tiptronic, design compromises were inevitable since the intended audience is far more diverse. Frankly the styling changes are minimal and certainly would not justify the potentially formidible financial losses to move from mk I to mk II.



    I think you're on the mark here. Others have pointed out that the user interface logic of PDK is consistent with the Tip, so Porsche may have gone for a strategy to keep the existing Tip owners rather than attracting new ones who want a pure performance tool. We have to see how it drives of course...

    But it occurs to me that the 911/S range are still their bread and butter models - if P wanted to be really brave for the harder core models like GT3, it could offer a performance tuned model of PDK -- without an automatic mode (and with real paddles?). That would send a message that they understand all the possible users for their cars.

    Re: 997 facelift more info

    It's funny, on motorcycles the shift pattern for road bikes is completely the opposite of that of race bikes. No one seems to mind though.....

    Just maybe

    As Mercedes do with their automatics they offer paddle shifters as an option. Maybe getting proper paddles is another example of Porsche working the options list pain much in the same they charge us extra for seats...

    Re: Old fashioned Paddles? Who needs them

    Quote:
    Atlas997 said:
    Cant help notice the similarities of the re-designed 997 front bumper with that of the Boxster - it almost looks like Porsche is running out of ideas ?

    here is the Boxster front end:



    My friend, this is called "Design Language".

    Re: Old fashioned Paddles? Who needs them

    Quote:
    ADias said:
    Porsche has never followed trends. The key is on the left side...
    I actually think that the SMG sequential directions are counter-intuitive. So what if the 11 PDK uses a different convention? Are you going to be confused?

    The steering wheel shifters are another convention. these are not tip buttons. These are paddles that you push to upshift or pull (push from the back) to downshift. And again it is just a learning acquired process, like anything. Again PAG does not follow trends, mostly sets their own, and I actually like that.

    Notice that the steering wheel seems to have a flat portion at the bottom?



    Key on the left side has nothging to do with setting the trends, that is because of their racing heritage as the race drivers were required to run to the vehicle, jump in and then start the car for the race, this way, they were be able to turn on the ignition while shift to 1st gear...

    Having the button on the steering wheel instead of the paddles is anything BUT setting any trend - and I think any one could also care less if they are trying to set a trend with push-down upshift and pull back down shifts...

    Citing porsche is setting the trend here is almost forceful

    Re: Old fashioned Paddles? Who needs them

    Quote:
    Key on the left side has nothging to do with setting the trends, that is because of their racing heritage as the race drivers were required to run to the vehicle, jump in and then start the car for the race, this way, they were be able to turn on the ignition while shift to 1st gear...



    Agreed. Hard to believe there are still people who don't know that.

    Re: Old fashioned Paddles? Who needs them

    Before anyone has tried it it is very hard to make any serious judgment !!!

    These ARE PADDLES ! They are just positionned differently, and I do think they make perfect sence.
    They are not in the way.... always at the tip of the fingers and should very very quick to use.
    They only 'strange' thing is that one will hardly ever take his hands of the wheel, which is good for fast driving, but less fun and involving.

    Let's wait to see what the first indpendent users will say.

    BTW that new steering wheel is butt ugly !

    Re: Old fashioned Paddles? Who needs them

    Three Things:

    1, I agree to reserve judgement until independent test reports
    2, New steering wheel IS butt ugly
    3, Hopefully GTs will get proper paddles not these Tiptronic style buttons/paddles...

    Re: Old fashioned Paddles? Who needs them

    Quote:
    Gnil said:
    Before anyone has tried it it is very hard to make any serious judgment !!!

    These ARE PADDLES ! They are just positionned differently, and I do think they make perfect sence.
    They are not in the way.... always at the tip of the fingers and should very very quick to use.
    They only 'strange' thing is that one will hardly ever take his hands of the wheel, which is good for fast driving, but less fun and involving.

    Let's wait to see what the first indpendent users will say.

    BTW that new steering wheel is butt ugly !


    I find the Porsche style paddles very logical and ergonomic with the added functionality of stick shifting. Of course this has to verified when I first drive the car.
    The steering wheel is a nice piece of design and very unique IMO, BUT I hate this volvano grey colour. I hope it can customised with leather or soft touch black paint.

    Re: 997 facelift more info

    Guys what do you think about the extra 100 Kg that the face lift has?

    Re: Old fashioned Paddles? Who needs them

    Quote:
    Gnil said:
    Before anyone has tried it it is very hard to make any serious judgment !!!

    These ARE PADDLES ! They are just positionned differently, and I do think they make perfect sence.
    They are not in the way.... always at the tip of the fingers and should very very quick to use.
    They only 'strange' thing is that one will hardly ever take his hands of the wheel, which is good for fast driving, but less fun and involving.

    Let's wait to see what the first indpendent users will say.

    BTW that new steering wheel is butt ugly !



    So for you it is normal to use THUMB for shifting up and center finger for shifting down?

    Just sit in your car and try to imagine that kind of shifting gears... Feels normal and nice?

    OK...

    Re: Old fashioned Paddles? Who needs them

    I've got a mountain bike where the gears are set up so I use the thumb to shift to a larger cog and finger to a smaller cog. It's two separate levers but it's basically the same movement as these paddles. It was very quick and easy to learn even though it has the added complication that the left hand is shifting cogs at the pedals and the right at the rear which means the left thumb gives you a higher gearing and the right thumb a lower gear. So I'm happy to reserve judgement on the Porsche system and wait and see what it feels like in real life.

    I've driven both the Ferrari and BMW systems in the past. I prefer having the paddles turn with the wheel so you don't need to move your hands to change gear. That's what these systems are all about. I wouldn't expect to be changing gear in a situation where I'd put so much lock on that I had to move my hands; not anywhere I was in a hurry anyway.

    I do agree that the steering wheel is butt ugly.

    Martin

    Re: 997 facelift more info

    Quote:
    altak said:
    Guys what do you think about the extra 100 Kg that the face lift has?



    Are you sure??

    Re: 997 facelift more info

    Not sure where you've got that from. It looks like 20kg more for the standard (manual) car and only 5kg more for the S to me.

    Martin

    Re: 997 facelift more info

    Quote:
    altak said:
    Guys what do you think about the extra 100 Kg that the face lift has?



    I'm not sure about this too,

    ok, so what do you think of the 4.3 sec 0-100kph, carrera S, PDK+LC ?????

    Re: Old fashioned Paddles? Who needs them

    Quote:
    CarreraTT said:
    Quote:
    Key on the left side has nothging to do with setting the trends, that is because of their racing heritage as the race drivers were required to run to the vehicle, jump in and then start the car for the race, this way, they were be able to turn on the ignition while shift to 1st gear...



    Agreed. Hard to believe there are still people who don't know that.



    Yes, but maybe those people compensate for this gap in their education by knowing that racing cars do not have ignition keys.

    Re: 997 facelift more info

    Quote:
    Enzo911 said:
    Quote:
    altak said:
    Guys what do you think about the extra 100 Kg that the face lift has?



    Are you sure??


    Carrera:DIN 1,415kg
    CarreraS:DIN 1,425kg
    Carrera is +15kg and S is +5kg
    Maybe our friend above is comparing figures for 997.1 coupe with 997.2 cabrio.

    Re: Old fashioned Paddles? Who needs them

    Quote:
    Yes, but maybe those people compensate for this gap in their education by knowing that racing cars do not have ignition keys.




    Really??? Cool! So you can just jump in one and take it for a ride?

    Porsche's paddles are CORRECT.

    Quote:
    So for you it is normal to use THUMB for shifting up and center finger for shifting down?

    Just sit in your car and try to imagine that kind of shifting gears... Feels normal and nice?




    Let's see .... in a Ferrari, is it pulling a LEFT paddle to shift up and pulling a RIGHT paddle to downshift? No, no ..... uhmmmm. No, I think it is pulling the RIGHT paddle to shift up and pulling the LEFT paddle to downshift.

    Uhmmm.......you know, I can't remember for sure. I'll get right back to you, let me go out to the garage and check. Hopefully the paddles are marked in case I forgot.

    ________________________

    You can't be serious!!! It's a bi-lateral choice. It's one way to do one thing, it's the other way to do the opposite. MONKEYS could get it right in 5 minutes and you're criticizing Porsche for the method they chose as not being natural??? You're saying the first time you ever drove a Ferrari, Maserati or Aston with the left/right paddles it was NATURAL??? It was intuitive?

    I think Porsche, as they usually do, got it right. They even corrected one of the rare times they got it wrong by restoring the ability to up & down shift with the gear stick, for those who still want to be more ergonomically involved in shifting. Although I suspect the first time you reach over to upshift simultaneously at the maximum lateral Gs in a hard, right hand apex it will be the last time you ever rely on just your left hand on the wheel to save the car from breaking free and sliding into a tire wall.

    BY THE WAY, there is one VERY ANNOYING thing about the Ferrari paddles. Ocassionally in real life while driving, my phone rings. I actually sometimes do answer it and talk. On those ocassions, with the phone in my hand, when I need to upshift/downshift (I can't remember which) I have to reach OVER the wheel to the other side with the opposite hand to shift. I'm not talking about during spirited driving, just in village traffice on my way home from playing golf and my wife calls to pick up something at the market, for example.

    What you believe is a more "natural" setup REQUIRES 2 hands on the wheel in order for it to feel natural. Porsche's does NOT. Porsche understands real life, and its natural intuitive senses, better than Ferrari I think.

    Re: Porsche's paddles are CORRECT.

    Quote:
    You're saying the first time you ever drove a Ferrari, Maserati or Aston with the left/right paddles it was NATURAL??? It was intuitive?

    Porsche understands real life, and its natural intuitive senses, better than Ferrari I think.



    Yes the first time driving a paddle shifter with left down/right up shifters felt intuitive. If you've driven a sh*tronic you will know that the buttons are not intuitive.

    The PDK shifters are not not good intuitive design, except for housewives who yak on the phone while going to yoga class.

    I'm pretty sure Porsche screwed up. They're very late to the party and have chosen a mediocre second best configuration just to be different.

    Re: Porsche's paddles are CORRECT.

    Did you heard about Carpal Tunnel syndrom?

    Well Porsche puddle design can lead to it very easy since you are using your thumb all the time for shifting up...

    Re: Porsche's paddles are CORRECT.

    Quote:
    Just sit in your car and try to imagine that kind of shifting gears... Feels normal and nice?



    I tried this. It works better if you make "Vroom, vroom" sounds while imagining.

    Re: Porsche's paddles are CORRECT.

    Quote:
    Did you heard about Carpal Tunnel syndrom?

    Well Porsche puddle design can lead to it very easy since you are using your thumb all the time for shifting up...



    Then this is probably not a good car for you.

    Re: Porsche's paddles are CORRECT.

    Quote:
    The PDK shifters are not not good intuitive design, except for housewives who yak on the phone while going to yoga class.



    I'm not a housewife. Rise up and pick a different way to denigrate my opinion.

    Re: Porsche's paddles are CORRECT.

    Quote:
    CarreraTT said:
    Quote:
    The PDK shifters are not not good intuitive design, except for housewives who yak on the phone while going to yoga class.



    I'm not a housewife. Rise up and pick a different way to denigrate my opinion.



    I'm expressing an opinion, not denigrating yours. If you're that self-obsessed to think it's about you I suggest you go back to listening to your Carly Simon records.

    Re: Porsche's paddles are CORRECT.

    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Did you heard about Carpal Tunnel syndrom?

    Well Porsche puddle design can lead to it very easy since you are using your thumb all the time for shifting up...


    Vary your gearchanges by using the stick too so that your nerve doesn't get compressed.
    I'm sure many americans will sue Porsche for this injury!

    Re: Porsche's paddles are CORRECT.

    Quote:
    reginos said:
    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Did you heard about Carpal Tunnel syndrom?

    Well Porsche puddle design can lead to it very easy since you are using your thumb all the time for shifting up...


    Vary your gearchanges by using the stick too so that your nerve doesn't get compressed.
    I'm sure many americans will sue Porsche for this injury!



    I love your sence of humor.

    My prediction is that around 70% of all FL997s will be PDK. In all honesty I expected little bit more from PDK-it is system aimed at TIP costumers, NOT at manual sportscars enthusiasts, at least IMO...

    Re: Old fashioned Paddles? Who needs them

    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Quote:
    Gnil said:
    Before anyone has tried it it is very hard to make any serious judgment !!!

    These ARE PADDLES ! They are just positionned differently, and I do think they make perfect sence.
    They are not in the way.... always at the tip of the fingers and should very very quick to use.
    They only 'strange' thing is that one will hardly ever take his hands of the wheel, which is good for fast driving, but less fun and involving.

    Let's wait to see what the first indpendent users will say.

    BTW that new steering wheel is butt ugly !



    So for you it is normal to use THUMB for shifting up and center finger for shifting down?

    Just sit in your car and try to imagine that kind of shifting gears... Feels normal and nice?

    OK...



    I took a fake steering wheel and I have immagined

    To me it does not feel more strange then to pull with two or three fingers on a piece of plastic, metal or carbon.
    I am used to use my right hand on a stick only
    So changing to use my thumb and finger tip will anyway be a new way to shift.
    I admit that using the thumb seems slightly strange , but I believe that it is intuitive .

    Re: Old fashioned Paddles? Who needs them

    I still don't understand this Push/Pull thing on the button, is there some kinda animation or a test from Porsche ? I couldn't see downshifts on the micro site, only upshifts.

    Re: Old fashioned Paddles? Who needs them

    I personally think these button/paddles or whatever on the steering wheel is very logical.

    If you really think about it while driving your hands won't loose contact with the steering wheel at all, wheather is down-shift or up-shift.

    I like it to be honest. It may not look as cool as the paddles we see in Ferrari or BMW or Aston but its practicality is beyond looks.

     
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