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Re: 997 facelift more info
Quote:
MKSGR said:Quote:
PinKchampagnE said:Quote:
ADias said:
Notice that the gear lever has a conventional forward + upshift and backwards - downshift, which makes more sense to me, but contrary to what BMW and other sequentials do. We need to see a photo of the steering wheel - tip buttons, or paddles or whatever.
You can see it in this picture :
No paddles.
BTW: They seem to have replaced Volcano Grey parts by Silver painted parts, thus avoiding different shades of silver in the interior. Well done
The steering wheel spokes look like volcano grey, don't they?
Jun 6, 2008 12:23:23 PM
- rantanplan
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Reply to:
MKSGR
Re: Old fashioned Paddles? Who needs them
i disagree with that cause when the new wheel is turned on top it will be confusing as well even with the new solution. thats in general what the lever in the center console is for...
worked perfectly fine with the BMW SMG...
its always the same with the buttons, especially on the track when hitting curbs etc u either hit the by accident or u dont know if u hit them cause its only a small button. with a paddle u know when u pull, klick or hit it...
from my point of view a way better solution...
worked perfectly fine with the BMW SMG...
its always the same with the buttons, especially on the track when hitting curbs etc u either hit the by accident or u dont know if u hit them cause its only a small button. with a paddle u know when u pull, klick or hit it...
from my point of view a way better solution...
Jun 6, 2008 12:28:48 PM
- reginos
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Re: Old fashioned Paddles? Who needs them
Quote:
rantanplan said:
i disagree with that cause when the new wheel is turned on top it will be confusing as well even with the new solution. thats in general what the lever in the center console is for...
worked perfectly fine with the BMW SMG...
its always the same with the buttons, especially on the track when hitting curbs etc u either hit the by accident or u dont know if u hit them cause its only a small button. with a paddle u know when u pull, klick or hit it...
from my point of view a way better solution...
Don't you see any practical benefit from doing both + and - with both buttons, i.e. regardless of which one of the two buttons is handy at the time needed? This is not possible with paddles with dedicated + or - functions.
Re: 997 facelift more info
Quote:
Atlas997 said:
in terms of performance and technology gains, the PDK is no doubt an immense improvement, but the "user interface" is a bit a of a let down.
Should have had paddles rather than steering wheel buttons - and the PDK stick should have followed the well regarded SMG approach,
As for the facellift looks (front/rear bumbers) I think the front bumbers now basically look same as the Boxster, and the rear light cluster looks cheesy and fugly (and no it will not grow on me - when the 996 replaced the 993, the resdesigned look never grew on me then and still hasnt after ten years - I still much prefer the 993 looks, and the subsequent 997 look)
Overall, tremendous laudable improvements in performance and functionality options (such as IPOD/Bluetooth etc), but looks-wise (and PDK interface) are letdowns.
For me, now that I know all the facts on the facelift model, I am fully satisfied to keep my manual transmission '08 C2S - the next time i will consider changes is when the next generation 911 comes out in four or so years.
I think the 997S Mk 1 has now achieved "classic" status.
Re: 997 facelift more info
Quote:
reginos said:Quote:
MKSGR said:Quote:
PinKchampagnE said:Quote:
ADias said:
Notice that the gear lever has a conventional forward + upshift and backwards - downshift, which makes more sense to me, but contrary to what BMW and other sequentials do. We need to see a photo of the steering wheel - tip buttons, or paddles or whatever.
No paddles.
BTW: They seem to have replaced Volcano Grey parts by Silver painted parts, thus avoiding different shades of silver in the interior. Well done
The steering wheel spokes look like volcano grey, don't they?
You are right
Jun 6, 2008 12:42:08 PM
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MKSGR
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- Reply to: rantanplan
Re: Old fashioned Paddles? Who needs them
Quote:
rantanplan said:
i disagree with that cause when the new wheel is turned on top it will be confusing as well even with the new solution. thats in general what the lever in the center console is for...
Why? The buttons always shift up if pressed and shift down if pulled...
Re: Old fashioned Paddles? Who needs them
Quote:
leveraged said:
For me this is perfect. I plan on getting the FL 911.
I preferred the boxster front end to the previous 911. I'm happy!
Yes, the 997.1 front was the worst looking Porsche front for years. I didn't mind the rear, but now it is even better.
Re: Old fashioned Paddles? Who needs them
Quote:
MKSGR said:Quote:
rantanplan said:
i disagree with that cause when the new wheel is turned on top it will be confusing as well even with the new solution. thats in general what the lever in the center console is for...
Why? The buttons always shift up if pressed and shift down if pulled...
So Porsche has the BEST solution in spirited driving compared to everyone else's "left paddle for downshift /right paddle for upshift" set up , whether fixed to steering column or fixed to steering wheel.
With PDK, either hand can shift up or down, whether wheel is right side up or upside down as you steer, even passing wheel hand over hand in tight corners .
Re: Old fashioned Paddles? Who needs them
Quote:
MKW said:Quote:
MKSGR said:Quote:
rantanplan said:
i disagree with that cause when the new wheel is turned on top it will be confusing as well even with the new solution. thats in general what the lever in the center console is for...
Why? The buttons always shift up if pressed and shift down if pulled...
So Porsche has the BEST solution in spirited driving compared to everyone else's "left paddle for downshift /right paddle for upshift" set up , whether fixed to steering column or fixed to steering wheel.
With PDK, either hand can shift up or down, whether wheel is right side up or upside down as you steer, even passing wheel hand over hand in tight corners .
Excactly. Sounds like an ideal concept. Look forward to testing it
Jun 6, 2008 2:44:20 PM
- THUMPZILLA
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Re: 997 facelift more info
More of the same..decent pic of the console.
http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/News/Search...content-block=0
http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/News/Search...content-block=0
Re: Old fashioned Paddles? Who needs them
Quote:
MKW said:Quote:
MKSGR said:Quote:
rantanplan said:
i disagree with that cause when the new wheel is turned on top it will be confusing as well even with the new solution. thats in general what the lever in the center console is for...
Why? The buttons always shift up if pressed and shift down if pulled...
So Porsche has the BEST solution in spirited driving compared to everyone else's "left paddle for downshift /right paddle for upshift" set up , whether fixed to steering column or fixed to steering wheel.
With PDK, either hand can shift up or down, whether wheel is right side up or upside down as you steer, even passing wheel hand over hand in tight corners .
+1
and you can shift with the stick, if the situation warrants it, which is something you cannot do in many automated manual systems
Jun 6, 2008 2:58:53 PM
- SoCal Alan
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- Reply to: reginos
Re: Old fashioned Paddles? Who needs them
Quote:
reginos said:Quote:
MKW said:Quote:
MKSGR said:Quote:
rantanplan said:
i disagree with that cause when the new wheel is turned on top it will be confusing as well even with the new solution. thats in general what the lever in the center console is for...
Why? The buttons always shift up if pressed and shift down if pulled...
So Porsche has the BEST solution in spirited driving compared to everyone else's "left paddle for downshift /right paddle for upshift" set up , whether fixed to steering column or fixed to steering wheel.
With PDK, either hand can shift up or down, whether wheel is right side up or upside down as you steer, even passing wheel hand over hand in tight corners .
+1
and you can shift with the stick, if the situation warrants it, which is something you cannot do in many automated manual systems
Sounds like a pretty good system.
Jun 6, 2008 3:09:59 PM
- Nidge
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- Reply to: SoCal Alan
Re: Old fashioned Paddles? Who needs them
is the final result truly worth the many hours spent viewing the 100 plus pages of the facelift thread? Indeed is it worth the extra cash required to get into the new model? i think not, sticking with my low milage 997 s. surley next generation is going to see a real change! 
Re: Old fashioned Paddles? Who needs them
Quote:
Nidge said:
is the final result truly worth the many hours spent viewing the 100 plus pages of the facelift thread? Indeed is it worth the extra cash required to get into the new model? i think not, sticking with my low milage 997 s. surley next generation is going to see a real change!
and that's a good thing. imagine getting a broken heart each time you'd see a facelift.
merc introduced 2 facelifts on the sl within 3 years. a good friend of mine had just gotten an sl55 and was confronted with the facelift a year later. he jumped on the wagon and ordered the facelifted sl55 only to have another one announced a year later...what a drag.
well, he did not decide for the second facelift (actually complete restyling)....he ordered a 599.....and got rid of his sl.
Re: 997 facelift more info
Quote:
Should have had paddles rather than steering wheel buttons
Those ARE paddles. They are rocker-switches that stick up above the wheel spoke. Look carefully. You push the top of the button ("+") to Upshift. You can PULL the top of the button from behind with your fingers to Downshift (or a less manly person can just push the minus sign at the bottom of the button). They are rocker-switches. With the ability to pull them from behind, they are paddles. Quite intuitive, in fact.
After an hour with the car, it will become inate.
Don't agree that BMW got it right. They got it reversed. Intuitively,to go faster, you pull the stick toward you....just like you would when you want to suddenly, aggressively downshift to second if passing a car on a two-lane, country road.
I also like the fact that they apparently (according to the closeup of the PDK gearstick plus and minus signs) have restored the ability to shift the gears in manual mode with the stick, something they took away beginning with the 996's Tiptronic.
Re: Old fashioned Paddles? Who needs them
Quote:
MKSGR said:Quote:
MKW said:
So Porsche has the BEST solution in spirited driving compared to everyone else's "left paddle for downshift /right paddle for upshift" set up , whether fixed to steering column or fixed to steering wheel.
With PDK, either hand can shift up or down, whether wheel is right side up or upside down as you steer, even passing wheel hand over hand in tight corners .
Excactly. Sounds like an ideal concept. Look forward to testing it
This PDK solution reminds me of Michael Schumacher Ferrari when Auto Trannies were banned. No body saw his left hand down-shift. They found out he can do it with the right pedal too by push-clicking it as opposed to pull-clicking for up-shift.
One thing: can the +/- be reversed on the right button??
===============
BTW, thank you all guys for closing the face-lift threed after 100 pages of excitements and excellent contribution. Inshalla, We will post our basalt black/black C2S in Oct 08.
Re: 997 facelift more info
Quote:
temm said:Quote:
ADias said:
Notice that the gear lever has a conventional forward + upshift and backwards - downshift, which makes more sense to me, but contrary to what BMW and other sequentials do. We need to see a photo of the steering wheel - tip buttons, or paddles or whatever.
I have to disagree, the conventional and logical way of arranging it (at least in racing) is forward - downshift and back - upshift. BMW are the ones who got it right
So in the 911 you have to shift using buttons on the front of the steeringwheel, unlike what EVERYONE else has (paddles behind the wheel) or use the stick which has the reverse upshift - downshift
Looks like Porsche, having committed to the push=up / pull=down mode on the rocker buttons, was forced to use the exact same up/downshift sense on the stick control to avoid a completely nonsensical disconnect; this left them opposite to BMW and others.
I'm open to people trying new user interfaces, but my gut tells me that Ferrari likely got it right ten years ago with their F1 paddle layout, and by trying to be "not Ferrari", others run the risk of less usable sequential shifters.
Hmmm, maybe thats it - Porsche is trying to punish Ferrari owners who buy the 997.1 PDK.... they would immediately start flicking away from the back of the right button to upshift... which with this PDK only triggers downshifts and frustration...
Porsche misses the boat
Standardization comes to every market and it seems that Porsche is trying to be different for the sake of being different. That sadly smacks of arrogance. What Porsche should have spent their time on was refining the hidden parts of the shift system - smoother, faster shifts, better maps, better integration into all the driving systems, not creating superfluously complicated interfaces that defeat at least one of the purposes of this type of shift system.
Re: 997 facelift more info
PDK was bound to be compromised when Porsche decided to make it a substitute for the Tiptronic. I has presumed, erroneously, that PDK would be a third transmission choice priced higher than the Tip, as an enthusiast alternative similar to the Ferrari F1. Once PDK became the new Tiptronic, design compromises were inevitable since the intended audience is far more diverse. Frankly the styling changes are minimal and certainly would not justify the potentially formidible financial losses to move from mk I to mk II.
Jun 6, 2008 5:34:50 PM
- ADias
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Re: Old fashioned Paddles? Who needs them
Porsche has never followed trends. The key is on the left side...
I actually think that the SMG sequential directions are counter-intuitive. So what if the 11 PDK uses a different convention? Are you going to be confused?
The steering wheel shifters are another convention. these are not tip buttons. These are paddles that you push to upshift or pull (push from the back) to downshift. And again it is just a learning acquired process, like anything. Again PAG does not follow trends, mostly sets their own, and I actually like that.
Notice that the steering wheel seems to have a flat portion at the bottom?
I actually think that the SMG sequential directions are counter-intuitive. So what if the 11 PDK uses a different convention? Are you going to be confused?
The steering wheel shifters are another convention. these are not tip buttons. These are paddles that you push to upshift or pull (push from the back) to downshift. And again it is just a learning acquired process, like anything. Again PAG does not follow trends, mostly sets their own, and I actually like that.
Notice that the steering wheel seems to have a flat portion at the bottom?
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