Jun 24, 2018 8:32:40 PM
Thanks bluelines: great pics - epic roadtrip Is that you getting rid of the morning coffee in pic #8 ? Little stone squeezed in between caliper and rotor (pic # 10) ? Looking forward to your report and driving impressions of the broken in car in the mountains Tourmalet is always congested with cyclists at this time of the year...
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Daily Driver 991 Carrera T (June 2018), Canyon Carver 981 Spyder, Track Machine 997 GT3
Jun 25, 2018 6:05:15 AM
Here my small T-report from our 4.000Km-drive through France and Spain.
Our tour started in Nürnberg and went over Lyon, Carcassonne, all important mountain passes of the Pyrenees, Biarritz, Bordeaux, Anger, Le Mans and back home - in 6 days.
My friend got his long awaited replacement engine for his 991.1 GT3 RS just 3 days before our tour and I started the run-in-drive with a one-day Berlin-trip of 1.000Km - so I can compare the T and the RS with my sold 981 Spyder very good.
After the first 3 mountain passes in "maximum-attack-mode" in the T, I was disappointed. The front end did not turn like the RS (no wonder) and in tight fast corners, I missed the feeling of my Spyder. The 991 feeled much longer and the weight of the engine in the back was something to get used to.
I really liked the steering, it is light and gives you confidence and a good road-feeling. The PCCB brakes feeled and worked perfect and stronger than the big reds in the 981 Spyder. Main difference to the RS is the missing Aero downforce during high speed braking on the Autobahn - the RS feels glued on the road - there is much more moving in the T.
Unfortunately, the col de Tourmalet was prepared for the Bike-Tour de France and a lot of road work produced tons of small stones/splitt on the road. We had to drive for over 20 Km in walking pace through this mess - pure horror.
From 8 cars, the RS had on time and the T two times small rocks in the front brakes - so we had to stop and remove the wheels to take out the stones - very frustrating for everybody. Our luck was, that we always carry a jack and an electric power wrench with us...It could be a coincidence, that just the Porsche cars had this problem, but it was showy.
After some more driving I got used to the 991 feeling and it became fun to play with the weight in the back. On tight roads I could easily follow the RS, just on wider passes with long straights he gained a small advantage, when he could reve over 8.000rpm. But we had great fun together and my friend was a little surprised, how good the 370 HP T could follow the 500HP RS.
On the Autobahn, there is zero chance to follow the PDK-RS and I still don´t like the 7S-Gearbox of the T, even after 4.000Km you have to be fully concentrated in the higher gears. But this was no problem at the mountains, were you use just 1 - 3 gears.
My favourite T-setting was Sport+, the car feeled with it the most agile. But I was suprised, that the traction out of tight corners in the mountains was not better in the T, than in the Spyder. May be this is connected with the longer wheelbase. I switched the PSM to "PSM-Sport" and this helped a lot.
I would say, that the T is as fast as my old 981 Spyder on these roads - I don´t miss the old car, but I prefer the sound, the 6S-gearbox and the handling (maximum attack at mountain passes) of it.
The perfect car for me would be the Spyder with the engine of the RS - let´s see...;-)
AND after all this sunny days - I´m really in love with Miamiblue and I hate myself for ordering just silver and black cars in the past...
Blueflame
Jun 30, 2018 9:47:48 AM
blueflame:My favourite T-setting was Sport+, the car feeled with it the most agile. But I was suprised, that the traction out of tight corners in the mountains was not better in the T, than in the Spyder. May be this is connected with the longer wheelbase. I switched the PSM to "PSM-Sport" and this helped a lot.
Thanks, blueflame - great pics and report of your epic tour I agree with you on the favourite setting (same here), though I think the (slightly) shorter wheelbase of the T should be an advantage in tight corners ? I was rather impressed when I attacked some of my favourite uphill hairpins (which I did many many times with a great variety of Porsche sportscars) recently though I am not yet in full attack mode (like you) due to the break-in. Even with the modern 911 the old style "slow in - fast out" still helps somewhat - with the midengined 981 you always can go faster at corner entry (especially with the Spyder) and wil have the edge until apex whereas thereafter the superb traction of the rear engine car rules. And of course the whole driving experience in the Spyder is more "raw" supporting the perception of going fast. What tire pressure do you use for spirited mountain driving ? I did experience a bit and found that 2.0 front and 2.4 rear (cold tires with air temp around 20°C) works quite nice for me. I didn't try PSM Sport yet because I want to avoid the extra stress for the drivetrain during break-in but I am already looking forward how it enhances driving fun on the serpentines
Daily Driver 991 Carrera T (June 2018), Canyon Carver 981 Spyder, Track Machine 997 GT3
Jun 30, 2018 8:21:23 PM
Jun 30, 2018 10:59:29 PM
I heard that among Ring regulars it has become a popular mod to de-RWS the GT-cars I guess it really depends - which 911 for which use....maybe the larger track-width of the GTS cars vs. the slim rear T plays a role ? I thought I can't go wrong following Walter Röhrl's advice on the T and RWS I felt that the GTS Cab with PASM definitely was less agile than the T with SPASM (both cars without RWS) whereas the Targa GTS with RWS felt great in the corners (despite the weight penalty).
Daily Driver 991 Carrera T (June 2018), Canyon Carver 981 Spyder, Track Machine 997 GT3
Jul 1, 2018 4:49:04 AM
Porsche-Jeck:I heard that among Ring regulars it has become a popular mod to de-RWS the GT-cars I guess it really depends - which 911 for which use....maybe the larger track-width of the GTS cars vs. the slim rear T plays a role ? I thought I can't go wrong following Walter Röhrl's advice on the T and RWS I felt that the GTS Cab with PASM definitely was less agile than the T with SPASM (both cars without RWS) whereas the Targa GTS with RWS felt great in the corners (despite the weight penalty).
Daily Driver 991 Carrera T (June 2018), Canyon Carver 981 Spyder, Track Machine 997 GT3
Actually, at the Ring, right now, they block the PASM not the RWS because they upgrade the suspensions...
GT Lover, Porsche fan
991.2 GT3 manual, 991 GT3 2014(sold)
Cayenne GTS 2014
Jul 1, 2018 8:01:35 AM
Jul 1, 2018 8:33:29 AM
Probably a matter of use case and expectations: blueflame's car comes as lightweight version with folding buckets, PCCB (think "mini GT3"), my car is more specced as a DD (think "Carrera with some extra spices").
@ the-missile: all these computerized suspension features are somehow aligned (for good reason) and interact with each other. Once you start to pick one component for modding, other components will follow ssoner or later (ask me how I know)
Daily Driver 991 Carrera T (June 2018), Canyon Carver 981 Spyder, Track Machine 997 GT3
Jul 1, 2018 8:38:51 AM
the-missile:Porsche-Jeck:I heard that among Ring regulars it has become a popular mod to de-RWS the GT-cars I guess it really depends - which 911 for which use....maybe the larger track-width of the GTS cars vs. the slim rear T plays a role ? I thought I can't go wrong following Walter Röhrl's advice on the T and RWS I felt that the GTS Cab with PASM definitely was less agile than the T with SPASM (both cars without RWS) whereas the Targa GTS with RWS felt great in the corners (despite the weight penalty).
Daily Driver 991 Carrera T (June 2018), Canyon Carver 981 Spyder, Track Machine 997 GT3
Actually, at the Ring, right now, they block the PASM not the RWS because they upgrade the suspensions...
Depends which upgrade ... the base one is not a change of the suspension, they only add a piece of rubber so it does not hit the bottom of the spring
964 Carrera 4 -- 997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991 GT3 RS
Jul 1, 2018 5:40:37 PM
Still, I mean what is lightweight when it is actually only "a fat baby and filet-o-fish" ? So, I would argue that whether one ops for the folding buckets or the Sportseats Plus, it will not matter. I am looking into how my Cayman GTS (PTV, PDK, Sportseats) would compare to the "T", taking the different engine and the car layout (mid-engine) into consideration. Or frankly speaking, would a replacement of my GTS with a T be an upgrade in terms of performance ? I know I am the one to decide and I looking forward getting a loaner when I have my car into maintance the end of July. By the way, and again, why hasn't nobody optioned the front lift ?
d997h:Still, I mean what is lightweight when it is actually only "a fat baby and filet-o-fish" ? So, I would argue that whether one ops for the folding buckets or the Sportseats Plus, it will not matter. I am looking into how my Cayman GTS (PTV, PDK, Sportseats) would compare to the "T", taking the different engine and the car layout (mid-engine) into consideration. Or frankly speaking, would a replacement of my GTS with a T be an upgrade in terms of performance ? I know I am the one to decide and I looking forward getting a loaner when I have my car into maintance the end of July. By the way, and again, why hasn't nobody optioned the front lift ?
You should try a fully loaded testcar against my „stripper“... you can feel a big difference. You also can feel, if the car is on a full or empty gastank. Of course just during track- or fast mountain -driving and not during a city cruise...
Regarding the lift...you need it in a GT3 or in a RS, but I had zero problems in the T without it, even in the steepest underground parkings.
Blueflame
Jul 1, 2018 8:43:59 PM
@ blueflame: great g-forces
@ d997h: agree with bluelines - no front lift needed. And yes, the yellow T-interior is super nice (love it). Try to get a loaner with the manual gearbox - though probably not that easy as most PZ cars seem to be PDK cars. In terms of performance (naked numbers) there won't be a huge difference between your Cayman GTS and the T - they are just very different animals (mid-engine vs. rear-engine, NA vs. Turbo).
Daily Driver 991 Carrera T (June 2018), Canyon Carver 981 Spyder, Track Machine 997 GT3
Jul 2, 2018 7:54:25 AM
Thanks, P.J. . Yeah, my PZ has PDK-cars only, though I would not mind as I do quite like the PDK. However, what is really obvious - at least for this PZ - , 2 out of 3 "T" are basically base Carreras again as they have included the rear seats and the privacy glass, no T-interior - I guess, they have done that just to play it safe and to reach the maximum of ist potential client base......
I will be in Hockenheim at the end of July and I am looking forward to potentially seeing "T"s in action....
blueflame:d997h:Still, I mean what is lightweight when it is actually only "a fat baby and filet-o-fish" ? So, I would argue that whether one ops for the folding buckets or the Sportseats Plus, it will not matter. I am looking into how my Cayman GTS (PTV, PDK, Sportseats) would compare to the "T", taking the different engine and the car layout (mid-engine) into consideration. Or frankly speaking, would a replacement of my GTS with a T be an upgrade in terms of performance ? I know I am the one to decide and I looking forward getting a loaner when I have my car into maintance the end of July. By the way, and again, why hasn't nobody optioned the front lift ?
You should try a fully loaded testcar against my „stripper“... you can feel a big difference. You also can feel, if the car is on a full or empty gastank. Of course just during track- or fast mountain -driving and not during a city cruise...
Regarding the lift...you need it in a GT3 or in a RS, but I had zero problems in the T without it, even in the steepest underground parkings.
Blueflame
Thanks, yes, this is the comparison I am trying to somehow get a clear picture of. Well, at the moment it is just a theoretical exercise for me anyway...
bluelines:Got RWS on the GTS and it is great. On the GT cars I heard it stands for Rear Wobbly Steering, but that is an altogether other story
Yep, agreed. Gives the 911 that extra go-kart like feel. I still think that RWS makes most sense on heavier cars (Cayenne, Panamera) but you can feel it in the 911 too.
RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)
Gnil:So we have two opposite real life ownership experience from long term RT users and experienced Porsche owners . One is blown away by the T while the other one is so-so about it ..... hummmm
Depends on what people expect from a product, I don't see any problem with that.
RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)
I don't get the allure of the T at just 5.000 EUR below the S.
The weight saving is fictitious and it just gives a perception of a light car. Only a negligible number of buyers would not retrofit the missing weight saving equipment at no extra cost.
Besides, because it is promoted as a pure and sportier model, buyers would be tempted to fit options like the expensive bucket seats or RWS and end up with an even higher bill.
The T looks like a marketing trick by Porsche in order to sell a few more of the slow selling basic Carrera variation at 10.000 EUR more.
Or perhaps, I am missing something.......
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"Porsche....and Nothing else matters"
reginos:I don't get the allure of the T at just 5.000 EUR below the S.
The weight saving is fictitious and it just gives a perception of a light car. Only a negligible number of buyers would not retrofit the missing weight saving equipment at no extra cost.
Besides, because it is promoted as a pure and sportier model, buyers would be tempted to fit options like the expensive bucket seats or RWS and end up with an even higher bill.
The T looks like a marketing trick by Porsche in order to sell a few more of the slow selling basic Carrera variation at 10.000 EUR more.
Or perhaps, I am missing something.......
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"Porsche....and Nothing else matters"
Personally, I would have bought a 991.2 GTS with RWS but this is me, I drive a R8, I have different tastes.
To each his own I guess but maybe the 911 T will have some collector's value at some point. It is a very nice car, no doubt.
RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991.2 Carrera GTS Cabriolet (2018), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mercedes E63 S AMG Edition 1 (2018), Mini JCW (2015)
RC:reginos:I don't get the allure of the T at just 5.000 EUR below the S.
The weight saving is fictitious and it just gives a perception of a light car. Only a negligible number of buyers would not retrofit the missing weight saving equipment at no extra cost.
Besides, because it is promoted as a pure and sportier model, buyers would be tempted to fit options like the expensive bucket seats or RWS and end up with an even higher bill.
The T looks like a marketing trick by Porsche in order to sell a few more of the slow selling basic Carrera variation at 10.000 EUR more.
Or perhaps, I am missing something.......
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"Porsche....and Nothing else matters"
Personally, I would have bought a 991.2 GTS with RWS but this is me, I drive a R8, I have different tastes.
To each his own I guess but maybe the 911 T will have some collector's value at some point. It is a very nice car, no doubt.
Sure the T is nice, like all 911s for that matter. But IMO there are preferable options within the 911 range.
Like you said to each his own.
Personally, I would like a Carrera S with powerkit and RWS rather than a GTS, in order to avoid the wide body and the -20mm PASM of the GTS. Most people would find this very odd
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"Porsche....and Nothing else matters"
RC:Personally, I would have bought a 991.2 GTS with RWS but this is me, I drive a R8, I have different tastes.
To each his own I guess but maybe the 911 T will have some collector's value at some point. It is a very nice car, no doubt.
You do?!? No way! I never heard about that, please tell us a bit more!
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