Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: Auto Bild Test:M5 Touring, Audi RS6 Avant, E63 - Page1

Mar 25, 2008 6:27:29 PM

Duncan: Pilot; Loc: Driftland; Posts: 410, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 3, 2005

Auto Bild Test:M5 Touring, Audi RS6 Avant, E63 AMG

http://aubi.media.boreus.de/tv/assets/06/6e/00278_320x200.mp4

Laptime:

E63: 1:36,57
M5T: 1:34,81
RS6: 1:34,00

60-100 km/h
E63: 2,1 s
M5T: 2,1 s
RS6: 2,1 s

80-120 km/h
RS6: 2,7 s
M5: 2,5 s
E63: 2,7 s

0-200 km/h
RS6: 14,3 s
M5:14,7 s
E64: 15,1 s

0-100 km/h
RS6: 4,4 s
M5: 4,9 s
E63: 4,4 s

Co2 emmisions
M5: 361 g/ km
RS6: 333 g/ km
346 g/km

Weight distrubition front / rear
RS6: 59/41
M5: 49/51
E63: 49/51

The scorepoints the BMW M5 Touring lost the most to the Audi RS6 Avant in categories Fuelconsumption / Envorviroment with 17 p (of 20) vs 14 for the M5.

Vs the Merces E63 AMG the M5 lost scores mostly on Luggage space / versatility where the AMG scored 20 (out of 20) and the M5 scored 14. The E63 probably got really gih there also thansk to it's 55 liter larger trunks space (2030 liters for the E63). The M5 also lost many points on visibility (18 vs 15 out of a 20 max) and also Warranty (13 vs 9 out of 20).

For everyday the Mercedes E63 AMG won the test. The fastest aroudn the track was the Audi RS6. The BMW M5 Touring was a fascinating ride, a drivers machine. But in everyday driving the SMG auto gearboxfeature was cumbersome in auto mode.

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Mar 25, 2008 6:53:23 PM

Atzporsche: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Vancouver , Canada; Posts: 9118, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 7, 2005; Reply to: Duncan

Re: Auto Bild Test:M5 Touring, Audi RS6 Avant, E63

So wait the Audi is the fastest, cleanest and agruably nicest looking! Impressive work at Audi (part of Porsche now btw)

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Mar 25, 2008 7:01:46 PM

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2002; Reply to: Atzporsche

Re: Auto Bild Test:M5 Touring, Audi RS6 Avant, E63

Quote:
Atzporsche said:
So wait the Audi is the fastest, cleanest and agruably nicest looking! Impressive work at Audi (part of Porsche now btw)

It's too heavy. It would be an interesting buy as a used vehicle at 60.000 euros in a year or so, but I'd much rather have the RS5.

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Mar 25, 2008 10:00:46 PM

VGA18: Veteran; Loc: Istanbul and Tampa; Posts: 1029, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2006; Reply to: Crash

Re: Auto Bild Test:M5 Touring, Audi RS6 Avant, E63

I guess M5 would be faster after 250km/h if the cars are de-limited

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Mar 25, 2008 10:27:40 PM

WAY: Rennteam Master; Loc: Melbourne, Australia; Posts: 3344, Gallery; Registered on: May 11, 2004; Reply to: VGA18

Re: Auto Bild Test:M5 Touring, Audi RS6 Avant, E63

How do the lap times compare to their sedan brothers?

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Mar 25, 2008 11:22:29 PM

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2002; Reply to: VGA18

Re: Auto Bild Test:M5 Touring, Audi RS6 Avant, E63

Quote:
VGA18 said:
I guess M5 would be faster after 250km/h if the cars are de-limited

I somehow doubt it. Weight becomes less of a factor at speed and the RS6 is supposed to be 2 seconds faster to 300 km/h than the M6. If only it weren't so damn heavy. I still think though, that it would be worth picking one up for 60.000 euros

.

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Mar 26, 2008 12:00:21 AM

skazzy: Veteran; Loc: ... , Canada; Posts: 931, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 31, 2005; Reply to: Crash

Re: Auto Bild Test:M5 Touring, Audi RS6 Avant, E63

nice analysis, thanks for posting.

btw, is the Porsche take-over of VAG confirmed?

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Mar 26, 2008 12:02:24 PM

KresoF1: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Croatia , Croatia; Posts: 7856, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 3, 2005; Reply to: Crash

Re: Auto Bild Test:M5 Touring, Audi RS6 Avant, E63

Quote:
Crash said:
Quote:
VGA18 said:
I guess M5 would be faster after 250km/h if the cars are de-limited

I somehow doubt it. Weight becomes less of a factor at speed and the RS6 is supposed to be 2 seconds faster to 300 km/h than the M6. If only it weren't so damn heavy. I still think though, that it would be worth picking one up for 60.000 euros .

M5 is faster all the way. Why? First there is optional 305km/h limiter for M5. On the other hand quattro Gmbh offers only 280km/h limiter option for new RS6. Why only 280km/h? They said tires... Unofficially-bad aerodynamics...

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Mar 26, 2008 12:28:47 PM

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2002; Reply to: KresoF1

Re: Auto Bild Test:M5 Touring, Audi RS6 Avant, E63

Quote:
KresoF1 said:
Quote:
Crash said:
Quote:
VGA18 said:
I guess M5 would be faster after 250km/h if the cars are de-limited

I somehow doubt it. Weight becomes less of a factor at speed and the RS6 is supposed to be 2 seconds faster to 300 km/h than the M6. If only it weren't so damn heavy. I still think though, that it would be worth picking one up for 60.000 euros .

M5 is faster all the way. Why? First there is optional 305km/h limiter for M5. On the other hand quattro Gmbh offers only 280km/h limiter option for new RS6. Why only 280km/h? They said tires... Unofficially-bad aerodynamics...

Kreso, without the limiter on the RS6, is the M5 still faster? I remember you posting data that it did 0-300 km/h in 51 seconds, so I would guess no (M6 did 53 in the AMS test). Is it a problem of the car being too unaerodynamic to reach that speed or its aerodynamics being bad to the point of it becoming very unstable?

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Mar 26, 2008 12:35:26 PM

KresoF1: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Croatia , Croatia; Posts: 7856, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 3, 2005; Reply to: Crash

Re: Auto Bild Test:M5 Touring, Audi RS6 Avant, E63

Too much uplift on front at speed above 250km/h... No downforce at all... Since RS6 servotronic is already pretty light at high speed it becomes even ligher at over 250km/h.

S5 suffers from similar problems-till around 250km/h it is pretty stable but after it becomes way too light at the front. Unlike R8 both S5 and RS6 are not designed for speeds above 280km/h...

RS6 limo test mule did reach 300km/h in 51s but... Its power was little bit more then 580hp and it was a test mule after all...

Also new RS6 is a tunning horror... Engine is already termically almost at the upper limit... DO NOT TUNE new RS6. That is my advice.

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Mar 26, 2008 12:42:48 PM

Markdsv: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Schevening , Netherlands; Posts: 1197, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 24, 2007; Reply to: Duncan

Re: Auto Bild Test:M5 Touring, Audi RS6 Avant, E63 AMG

Quote:
Duncan said:
......... a drivers machine. But in everyday driving the SMG auto gearboxfeature was cumbersome in auto mode.

I had the M5 sedan for a test drive and although the car is fantastic I would agree with the statement that the car is quite cumbersome to drive in auto mode. Once of the reasons I opted not to buy the M5. I am sure you get used to it but driving in traffic or around town is not easy. I was worried about my wife driving the car as well

(especially as she won't be using it every day)

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Mar 26, 2008 1:08:00 PM

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2002; Reply to: KresoF1

Re: Auto Bild Test:M5 Touring, Audi RS6 Avant, E63

Quote:
KresoF1 said:
Too much uplift on front at speed above 250km/h... No downforce at all... Since RS6 servotronic is already pretty light at high speed it becomes even ligher at over 250km/h.

S5 suffers from similar problems-till around 250km/h it is pretty stable but after it becomes way too light at the front. Unlike R8 both S5 and RS6 are not designed for speeds above 280km/h...

RS6 limo test mule did reach 300km/h in 51s but... Its power was little bit more then 580hp and it was a test mule after all...

Also new RS6 is a tunning horror... Engine is already termically almost at the upper limit... DO NOT TUNE new RS6. That is my advice.

Ouch!

I hope the RS5 will be improved aerodynamically, as it does have serious potential.

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Mar 26, 2008 1:20:16 PM

KresoF1: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Croatia , Croatia; Posts: 7856, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 3, 2005; Reply to: Crash

Re: Auto Bild Test:M5 Touring, Audi RS6 Avant, E63

Andrej,

NOT only S5... Check out one thread about M3 high speed experince from m3post.com, I had similar experience with new M3 coupe as well. Wind noise(and roof noise at the back specially) are very, very big above 250km/h... Brakes are producing some vibrations when you brake hard from cca 265km/h... It seems to me that M3(despite excellent M-DKG) is actually not build for these speeds...

Try all that in R8... Stable at 300km/h on clock... Standard brakes very, very good at high speed braking... Optional Ceramics bites as well as PCCBs on 997 Turbo... True sportscar all the way IMHO.

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Mar 26, 2008 1:26:11 PM

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2002; Reply to: KresoF1

Re: Auto Bild Test:M5 Touring, Audi RS6 Avant, E63

Quote:
KresoF1 said:
Andrej,

NOT only S5... Check out one thread about M3 high speed experince from m3post.com, I had similar experience with new M3 coupe as well. Wind noise(and roof noise at the back specially) are very, very big above 250km/h... Brakes are producing some vibrations when you brake hard from cca 265km/h... It seems to me that M3(despite excellent M-DKG) is actually not build for these speeds...

Try all that in R8... Stable at 300km/h on clock... Standard brakes very, very good at high speed braking... Optional Ceramics bites as well as PCCBs on 997 Turbo... True sportscar all the way IMHO.

Yes, it would seem that the R8 truly is worth its price. I'll say though, I am very impressed by the big AMG Mercedes cars (E55, CL65 I have tried for myself). Relatively low wind noise, fast and no brake fade. Wind noise starts being a problem in the A5 at around 230 km/h, thanks to those stupid, EU-sized mirrors

.

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Mar 26, 2008 10:41:51 PM

VGA18: Veteran; Loc: Istanbul and Tampa; Posts: 1029, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2006; Reply to: Crash

Re: Auto Bild Test:M5 Touring, Audi RS6 Avant, E63

I do not know about new RS6 but as i know it is heavy and it is a Wagon(aerodynamics??) and it has a tiptronic gear which is simple than SMG. M5 has more redline and also 1 more gear. Also AWD would have a little bit more power loss.

Kreso,
I always say, M5 is also not safe after 220ish km(i see 270km/h at most). The front feels lighter when you go faster. I'd like to be in a Gallardo at 300kmh than 270km/h at M5.

I got a little logic

Assume that new RS6 has %25 power loss and it would have 435 awhp 2000+kg 6gear auto tranny. 217hp per tonne

And M5 have %17 power loss and it would have 420 rwhp 7smg 1850kg. It has 227hp per tonne

However, RS6 would be faster than M5 from a dig until 160ish kmh

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Mar 27, 2008 1:46:59 AM

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2002; Reply to: VGA18

Re: Auto Bild Test:M5 Touring, Audi RS6 Avant, E63

Quote:
VGA18 said:
I do not know about new RS6 but as i know it is heavy and it is a Wagon(aerodynamics??) and it has a tiptronic gear which is simple than SMG. M5 has more redline and also 1 more gear. Also AWD would have a little bit more power loss.

Kreso,
I always say, M5 is also not safe after 220ish km(i see 270km/h at most). The front feels lighter when you go faster. I'd like to be in a Gallardo at 300kmh than 270km/h at M5.

I got a little logic

Assume that new RS6 has %25 power loss and it would have 435 awhp 2000+kg 6gear auto tranny. 217hp per tonne

And M5 have %17 power loss and it would have 420 rwhp 7smg 1850kg. It has 227hp per tonne

However, RS6 would be faster than M5 from a dig until 160ish kmh

I would disagree. If the (much) heavier car with similar aerodynamics is faster from a dig, it will continue to be faster afterwards, especially with such a minor whp difference. Don't forget, the M5 needs that extra gear - the RS6, with its broad torque curve, doesn't.

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Mar 27, 2008 2:18:02 AM

Discover: Senior; Loc: Israel; Posts: 711, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 17, 2005; Reply to: Crash

Re: Auto Bild Test:M5 Touring, Audi RS6 Avant, E63

Does the RS6 available with automatic gear box?!
I though it is coming with manual one only.

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Mar 27, 2008 12:12:29 PM

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2002; Reply to: Discover

Re: Auto Bild Test:M5 Touring, Audi RS6 Avant, E63

Quote:
Discover said:
Does the RS6 available with automatic gear box?!
I though it is coming with manual one only.

It's a Tip.

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Mar 27, 2008 2:16:37 PM

Ferdie: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Europe , Germany; Posts: 8234, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 2, 2004; Reply to: Crash

Re: Auto Bild Test:M5 Touring, Audi RS6 Avant, E63

Quote:
Crash said:
I would disagree. If the (much) heavier car with similar aerodynamics is faster from a dig, it will continue to be faster afterwards, especially with such a minor whp difference. Don't forget, the M5 needs that extra gear - the RS6, with its broad torque curve, doesn't.

I wouldn't. The RS6 makes progress right from the start, where M5 and E63 suffer from wheel spin. An automatic gearbox in combination with AWD, especially in a more powerful car, will always get off the line faster. The E63 posted similiar acc. times to 100 kph but improved upon second gear. The Mercedes and especially BMW do offer plenty of performance at higher RPM, the Audi offers more torque.

The BMW actually is faster from 100 - 200 kph than both rivals. Take a look here.

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