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    Mar 24, 2008 11:04:31 PM

    cibergypsy
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    US spec Carrera S limited slip diff question...

    My Carrera S has the X51 Powerkit option. We all know the car has PASM but no limited slip differential. I have 2 years or 34k miles left on my original warranty. I researched what it would take to put a factory brand new transmission with limited slip (40%) and it would cost me, once I give them my transmission as core, $3200 plus tax. I would then have 2 years but unlimited mileage as warranty on this transmission. Is this something you guys consider worthy of the expense??? I need your opinions! Anyways, for a better view, I ordered this car to be a "keeper" and therefore spec'd it to have an MSRP of $123k and included the X51 plus the Aerokit, to name the most expensive options so far. Needless to say, judging by the second hand market, I would take a HUGE hit if I sold it while, at the same time, make its new owner a VERY happy guy with an awesome car for peanuts, compared to what I paid for it. I now have 16k miles on it and, since I cannot sell it without feeling like vomiting, have considered then adding the one option nobody could order from the dealer, come the time to check the option boxes.

    Once more, should I go for it since it would only cost a paltry $3200 when some aftermarket limited slip diffs cost 1/2 of that by themselves to begin with???

    Mar 24, 2008 11:38:24 PM

    Trundle_GT3
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    Reply to: cibergypsy

    Re: US spec Carrera S limited slip diff question..

    WHY??

    It is a great car as is... .Just drive it and enjoy it

    Mar 25, 2008 1:43:46 AM

    MMD
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    Re: US spec Carrera S limited slip diff question..

    No. Good for track use and in seriously bad mud or ice. Therefore, IMO, if not tracking or not in offroad/snow, the only reason to get one is because it's a "cheap" (might-as-well) option when ordering.

    Mar 25, 2008 1:16:38 PM

    Carlos from SpainM
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    Reply to: MMD

    Re: US spec Carrera S limited slip diff question..

    I have the -20mm with the rear LSD and while its a great option and love it (not only in track use but also in spirtited driving on the slower corners, etc) I wouldn't pay $3200+ and all the hassle of the work, and also any posterior problems that may arise from that modification (PSM?, PASM?, ect), and you don't know forst hand what the effect of "that" aftermarket LSD is going to have. For me the negatives far outwieght the positives of fitting an aftermarket rear LSD on your particular car.

    You have a great car, enjoy it, the LSD is only a small part of the whole ecuation

    Mar 25, 2008 1:20:14 PM

    racerx
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    Reply to: MMD

    Re: US spec Carrera S limited slip diff question..

    I have the LSD and it is fun on the rare times I nail the gas from a stop and 1 wheel spins and the rear end slides sideways before the other wheel hooks up and I shoot forward.

    Nice to have and would order it on a new car but I agree with MMD and would not screw with your pricey C2S.

    Mar 25, 2008 2:51:34 PM

    Grant
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    Reply to: racerx

    Re: US spec Carrera S limited slip diff question..

    I would definitely do it (or I might consider adding a better-than-stock aftermarket LSD from Guard Transmission or Porsche Motorsport).

    I noticed the only folks who said "No, just enjoy your car the way it is" comes from two board member who are lucky enough to already have LSD on their cars

    I missed LSD terribly on my three 911's that didn't have it and added it to a fourth (made a huge improvement).

    Mar 25, 2008 4:49:33 PM

    cibergypsy
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    Reply to: Carlos from SpainM

    Re: US spec Carrera S limited slip diff question..

    The LSD I would install is not aftermarket, it is an original complete Porsche transmission with part # 997.300.020.01. I would never consider putting an aftermarket LSD on my car while it has warranty and without knowing what issues may arise from PSM or PASM, of course.

    Mar 25, 2008 4:55:02 PM

    cibergypsy
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    Reply to: racerx

    Re: US spec Carrera S limited slip diff question..

    Where in my post did I say I was going to install an aftermarket unit??? I don't recall ever mentioning that and also, if you read the post it says "factory". Therefore, I was referring to a brand new "factory" or "genuine" Porsche limited slip differential equipped transmission with part number 997.300.020.01. It shows on the USA PET catalogue and I would think that, therefore, it must have been tested by Porsche to work seamlessly with PASM and PSM on a North American Carrera S.

    My question was that, assuming it works like a dream, would it be worth it to install on my car being that it is a genuine factory item with 2 years and unlimited mileage warranty? Please, don't deviate from the essence of the question since I would like an opinion based on these criteria only. Thanks!

    Mar 25, 2008 6:23:29 PM

    FLORENT KAVADAS
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    Reply to: cibergypsy

    Re: US spec Carrera S limited slip diff question...

    Mine is LSD too and even if roads are here in Greece are really so harsh I would not think about having my car without it!
    DO it but you will find out that the car sits lower,is more precise BUT are you sure it will enter in your garage? I know its only one centimeter lower as a ride but sometimes it makes a difference when it scrapes the garage entrance

    IN any case you may keep the car after that investment...

    Mar 25, 2008 6:56:52 PM

    cibergypsy
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    Re: US spec Carrera S limited slip diff question...

    I am not changing the PASM system for the -20mm sports suspension available in Europe, not at all. I am retaining the PASM system, as per automobiles for the North American market, but adding the LSD transmission to it.

    By the way, a lower ride height prevented me from buying a GT3 as my Carrera S with the Aerokit already scrapes entering my garage unless I am extremely careful.

    Mar 25, 2008 7:27:03 PM

    jeffbco
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    Reply to: cibergypsy

    Re: US spec Carrera S limited slip diff question..

    Quote:
    cibergypsy said:
    Where in my post did I say I was going to install an aftermarket unit??? I don't recall ever mentioning that and also, if you read the post it says "factory". Therefore, I was referring to a brand new "factory" or "genuine" Porsche limited slip differential equipped transmission with part number 997.300.020.01. It shows on the USA PET catalogue and I would think that, therefore, it must have been tested by Porsche to work seamlessly with PASM and PSM on a North American Carrera S.

    My question was that, assuming it works like a dream, would it be worth it to install on my car being that it is a genuine factory item with 2 years and unlimited mileage warranty? Please, don't deviate from the essence of the question since I would like an opinion based on these criteria only. Thanks!

    It may be shown in the catalog but I'm not sure I've heard of anyone adding this after the fact...and there must be a reason it's not offered as an option on USA cars...anyone know?

    Mar 25, 2008 7:40:42 PM

    Carlos from SpainM
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    Reply to: cibergypsy

    Re: US spec Carrera S limited slip diff question..

    Quote:
    cibergypsy said:
    Where in my post did I say I was going to install an aftermarket unit??? I don't recall ever mentioning that and also, if you read the post it says "factory". Therefore, I was referring to a brand new "factory" or "genuine" Porsche limited slip differential equipped transmission with part number 997.300.020.01. It shows on the USA PET catalogue and I would think that, therefore, it must have been tested by Porsche to work seamlessly with PASM and PSM on a North American Carrera S.



    Then its not 40% lock as you mentioned, I believe the LSD for the Carrera is something around 23%(accel) & 21%(decel). 40% lock is for the likes of the GT3 and GT2.
    Are you sure you are looking at the LSD for the Carrera? and Porsche confirmed that it is designed/compatible for the Carreras with PASM?

    Mar 25, 2008 7:50:21 PM

    Grant
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    Reply to: Carlos from SpainM

    Re: US spec Carrera S limited slip diff question..

    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    Then its not 40% lock as you mentioned, I believe the LSD for the Carrera is something around 23%(accel) & 21%(decel). 40% lock is for the likes of the GT3 and GT2.
    Are you sure you are looking at the LSD for the Carrera? and Porsche confirmed that it is designed/compatible for the Carreras with PASM?


    Carlos makes a good point. The 997S LSD is a much lower locking percentage than GT3 (will be more compatible with PSM).

    The GT3 tranny will not bolt up to your engine without mofications (and I suspect that a complete GT3 tranny would be far more expensive than the price you quoted).

    Also, adding LSD will tend to increase understeer, unless you compensate with adjustments to the suspension (I recommend getting -20mm Sport, GT3 or other adjustable swaybars to arrive at your preferred balance).

    Mar 25, 2008 9:42:37 PM

    cibergypsy
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    Reply to: Carlos from SpainM

    Re: US spec Carrera S limited slip diff question..

    I submitted to the dealer the part number I mentioned and another one which is 997.300.020.31. They told me that the one that ends in .020.01 has been purchased by others and put into their Carrera Ss and that it has a 40% locking factor. It did seem a little high for me to put into a Carrera S but I am just telling what I was told and recommended. Now, since there is another transmission with a different part number and it also shows on the parts catalog for the Carrera S, I will ask to see if this one has a lower locking factor, as it seems then to be more suited to my car. Muchas gracias Carlos. Thanks for the advise.

    Mar 25, 2008 9:45:47 PM

    fritz
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    Reply to: cibergypsy

    Re: US spec Carrera S limited slip diff question..

    Quote:
    cibergypsy said:
    The LSD I would install is not aftermarket, it is an original complete Porsche transmission with part # 997.300.020.01. I would never consider putting an aftermarket LSD on my car while it has warranty and without knowing what issues may arise from PSM or PASM, of course.



    Since this tranny is not offered as original equipment for the US-market model of your car, what makes you think you would get full warranty on it if you retrofitted it?
    Your car would no longer correspond to the manufacturer's approved spec for your market.

    Mar 25, 2008 9:48:43 PM

    cibergypsy
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    Reply to: Grant

    Re: US spec Carrera S limited slip diff question..

    Carlos does indeed make a good point. I will enquire more into this as there are two transmissions available for the Carrera S, both with LSD, for the USA. I will also ask them to e-mail Porsche of North America to make sure there are no issues with PASM. I would tend to think there shouldn't be any issues since there is no -20mm suspension in Carrera Ss for the North American market and, if this part shows up in the North American catalog, it should be compatible with PASM. Never the less, it's best not to assume anything and get it in writing from Porsche before taking the plunge. I am even more inclined now not to get it if it won't enhance the performance of my car without resorting to more involved modifications. I am a PCA certified DE instructor and do go to track events but in my 1987 Carrera, which does have option 220 (LSD) in it. I am thinking on taking my 997 S to the track and see how it drives. Maybe I'll find out I don't really need it for now or, at least, I'll have a more informed basis of comparison.

    Mar 25, 2008 9:54:17 PM

    cibergypsy
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    Reply to: fritz

    Re: US spec Carrera S limited slip diff question..

    Quote:
    fritz said:
    Quote:
    cibergypsy said:
    The LSD I would install is not aftermarket, it is an original complete Porsche transmission with part # 997.300.020.01. I would never consider putting an aftermarket LSD on my car while it has warranty and without knowing what issues may arise from PSM or PASM, of course.



    Since this tranny is not offered as original equipment for the US-market model of your car, what makes you think you would get full warranty on it if you retrofitted it?
    Your car would no longer correspond to the manufacturer's approved spec for your market.



    All Porsche parts are warranted for 2 years or unlimited mileage in the USA. This is an original Porsche part, sold by a Porsche dealer and installed by the same Porsche dealer (if I go in that direction) so there will be no issues as affirmed by the parts and service department from this Porsche dealer. Also, if it is in the Porsche parts catalog and is compatible with my Carrera S (I will get confirmation by Porsche on this before buying it) I cannot see why they would void a warranty if issues arise on other systems affected by it. Porsche specifically states on their replacement parts and Tequipment policies that their parts do not void the new vehicle manufacturer's warranty. I would buy this ONLY with the confirmation by Porsche Cars North America that this is indeed a part available as fully compatible with a US Carrera S and that no part of my new vehicle warranty will be voided. Otherwise, it wouldn't be worth it to me.

    Remember that most Porsche owners have been able to buy these cars by making good and educated choices in life, not by being careless or stupid. Give others in this forum the benefit of the doubt before thinking that they haven't done, or are, doing their research.

    Mar 25, 2008 10:06:42 PM

    fritz
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    Reply to: Carlos from SpainM

    Re: US spec Carrera S limited slip diff question..

    Quote:
    Carlos from Spain said:
    Then its not 40% lock as you mentioned, I believe the LSD for the Carrera is something around 23%(accel) & 21%(decel). 40% lock is for the likes of the GT3 and GT2.



    The lock factor figures quoted for the 997S are 22% under acceleration and 27% under deceleration.

    The equivalent figures for the 997 GT3 are 40% acceleration / 60% deceleration and for the 997 GT2 28% acceleration / 40% deceleration.
    Comparison of these last two sets of figures shows how misleading it can be to describe an LSD as having "40% lock". Without specifying both the load and overrun (or acceleration and deceleration) values, it is meaningless as a means of differentiating different set-ups.

    Mar 25, 2008 10:10:52 PM

    Dan L
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    Reply to: fritz

    Re: US spec Carrera S limited slip diff question..

    "and Porsche confirmed that it is designed/compatible for the Carreras with PASM?" That's been my concern.

    dan

    Mar 25, 2008 10:23:32 PM

    fritz
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    Reply to: cibergypsy

    Re: US spec Carrera S limited slip diff question..

    Quote:
    cibergypsy said:
    Quote:
    fritz said:
    Quote:
    cibergypsy said:
    The LSD I would install is not aftermarket, it is an original complete Porsche transmission with part # 997.300.020.01. I would never consider putting an aftermarket LSD on my car while it has warranty and without knowing what issues may arise from PSM or PASM, of course.



    Since this tranny is not offered as original equipment for the US-market model of your car, what makes you think you would get full warranty on it if you retrofitted it?
    Your car would no longer correspond to the manufacturer's approved spec for your market.



    All Porsche parts are warranted for 2 years or unlimited mileage in the USA. This is an original Porsche part, sold by a Porsche dealer and installed by the same Porsche dealer (if I go in that direction) so there will be no issues as affirmed by the parts and service department from this Porsche dealer. Also, if it is in the Porsche parts catalog and is compatible with my Carrera S (I will get confirmation by Porsche on this before buying it) I cannot see why they would void a warranty if issues arise on other systems affected by it. Porsche specifically states on their replacement parts and Tequipment policies that their parts do not void the new vehicle manufacturer's warranty. I would buy this ONLY with the confirmation by Porsche Cars North America that this is indeed a part available as fully compatible with a US Carrera S and that no part of my new vehicle warranty will be voided. Otherwise, it wouldn't be worth it to me.

    Remember that most Porsche owners have been able to buy these cars by making good and educated choices in life, not by being careless or stupid. Give others in this forum the benefit of the doubt before thinking that they haven't done, or are, doing their research.


    I did not suggest that you were either being careless or stupid or not doing your research. I was wondering if your dealer had reliably confirmed that a valid warranty would apply in this case, because I am inclined to have my doubts about it.
    Your statement that "Porsche specifically states on their replacement parts and Tequipment policies that their parts do not void the new vehicle manufacturer's warranty" would obviously apply if parts are replaced by direct equivalent replacement parts, i.e., same part number or newer generation direct equivalent parts for that model. It does not necessarily apply if parts are "mixed and matched" at the owner's whim.

    You have now confirmed that your research on this point has not yet been concluded, since you still have to wait for confirmation.

    Mar 25, 2008 10:44:58 PM

    jeffbco
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    Reply to: cibergypsy

    Re: US spec Carrera S limited slip diff question..

    Quote:
    cibergypsy said:
    I submitted to the dealer the part number I mentioned and another one which is 997.300.020.31. They told me that the one that ends in .020.01 has been purchased by others and put into their Carrera Ss and that it has a 40% locking factor. It did seem a little high for me to put into a Carrera S but I am just telling what I was told and recommended. Now, since there is another transmission with a different part number and it also shows on the parts catalog for the Carrera S, I will ask to see if this one has a lower locking factor, as it seems then to be more suited to my car. Muchas gracias Carlos. Thanks for the advise.

    You should see if the dealer will put you in contact with the "others" they've sold this too and see if they can give you a users' opinion.

    Mar 25, 2008 10:54:07 PM

    Grant
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    Reply to: cibergypsy

    Re: US spec Carrera S limited slip diff question..

    Quote:
    cibergypsy said:I will enquire more into this as there are two transmissions available for the Carrera S, both with LSD, for the USA. I will also ask them to e-mail Porsche of North America to make sure there are no issues with PASM.


    The potential issue is with PSM (stability system), not PASM (active suspension), since PSM relies on the ablility to brake each wheel independently and LSD tends to transfer the braking of one rear wheel to the other as well...

    Mar 26, 2008 12:07:16 AM

    cibergypsy
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    Reply to: Dan L

    Re: US spec Carrera S limited slip diff question..

    Nothing definitive yet. Only from the dealer, not Porsche.

    Mar 26, 2008 12:10:45 AM

    cibergypsy
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    Reply to: fritz

    Re: US spec Carrera S limited slip diff question..

    Quote:
    fritz said:
    Quote:
    cibergypsy said:
    Quote:
    fritz said:
    Quote:
    cibergypsy said:
    The LSD I would install is not aftermarket, it is an original complete Porsche transmission with part # 997.300.020.01. I would never consider putting an aftermarket LSD on my car while it has warranty and without knowing what issues may arise from PSM or PASM, of course.



    Since this tranny is not offered as original equipment for the US-market model of your car, what makes you think you would get full warranty on it if you retrofitted it?
    Your car would no longer correspond to the manufacturer's approved spec for your market.



    All Porsche parts are warranted for 2 years or unlimited mileage in the USA. This is an original Porsche part, sold by a Porsche dealer and installed by the same Porsche dealer (if I go in that direction) so there will be no issues as affirmed by the parts and service department from this Porsche dealer. Also, if it is in the Porsche parts catalog and is compatible with my Carrera S (I will get confirmation by Porsche on this before buying it) I cannot see why they would void a warranty if issues arise on other systems affected by it. Porsche specifically states on their replacement parts and Tequipment policies that their parts do not void the new vehicle manufacturer's warranty. I would buy this ONLY with the confirmation by Porsche Cars North America that this is indeed a part available as fully compatible with a US Carrera S and that no part of my new vehicle warranty will be voided. Otherwise, it wouldn't be worth it to me.

    Remember that most Porsche owners have been able to buy these cars by making good and educated choices in life, not by being careless or stupid. Give others in this forum the benefit of the doubt before thinking that they haven't done, or are, doing their research.


    I did not suggest that you were either being careless or stupid or not doing your research. I was wondering if your dealer had reliably confirmed that a valid warranty would apply in this case, because I am inclined to have my doubts about it.
    Your statement that "Porsche specifically states on their replacement parts and Tequipment policies that their parts do not void the new vehicle manufacturer's warranty" would obviously apply if parts are replaced by direct equivalent replacement parts, i.e., same part number or newer generation direct equivalent parts for that model. It does not necessarily apply if parts are "mixed and matched" at the owner's whim.

    You have now confirmed that your research on this point has not yet been concluded, since you still have to wait for confirmation.




    If you read on my post, you'll see I wrote "the benefit of the doubt before thinking that they haven't done, or are, doing their research." There is an "or are" in that sentence to express that I may still be undergoing research. Therefore, I have neither concluded it nor said I concluded it. I believe that also makes your last sentence accurate.

    Mar 26, 2008 12:14:54 AM

    cibergypsy
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    Reply to: Grant

    Re: US spec Carrera S limited slip diff question..

    Quote:
    Grant said:
    Quote:
    cibergypsy said:I will enquire more into this as there are two transmissions available for the Carrera S, both with LSD, for the USA. I will also ask them to e-mail Porsche of North America to make sure there are no issues with PASM.


    The potential issue is with PSM (stability system), not PASM (active suspension), since PSM relies on the ablility to brake each wheel independently and LSD tends to transfer the braking of one rear wheel to the other as well...



    Grant, trust me that I believe you more than the dealer and am a little sceptic about the whole thing, unless I get confirmation from Porsche. I read on Paul Frère's book "The Porsche 911 Story" that an LSD would not be compatible with PSM and was, therefore, not offered on the 996 with PSM. Nevertheless, don't the European 997s that have the -20mm sports suspension and LSD also have PSM? I was under the impression they did and that would make this LSD available in the North American PET catalog a plausible possibility, wouldn't it?

    Mar 26, 2008 3:14:49 AM

    MMD
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    Reply to: cibergypsy

    Re: US spec Carrera S limited slip diff question..

    Okay..., dumb question warning..., here goes:

    Assuming zero track use please tell me why LSD so highly desireable for a road car.

    I'm glad I have it, because it was a "cheap" and might-as-well option. The reason I got it was because I thought maybe one day it would pay for itself if it saved me from getting stuck or going into a ditch.

    Other than that - and assuming you do NOT intend to use it to drive insanely on public roads - can someone tell me why it's so desireable for a road car?

    Mar 26, 2008 3:39:47 AM

    cibergypsy
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    Reply to: MMD

    Re: US spec Carrera S limited slip diff question..

    I am a PCA DE instructor and would like to take my car to track events once in a while. That kind of answers the question since it takes away the assumption of "zero track use." So far, I've taken my 944 Turbo, my 968 (both with factory LSD) and my 996 C4S which had PSM and now have taken my 1987 3.2L Carrera with factory LSD to the track 2 times. The 996 C4S was very, very fast and I didn't need an LSD. It's about time I take my X51 Carrera S that, unlike the C4S, only has rear wheel drive and that was the whole purpose of this thread. To find out wether or not it would be a worthy addition taking into account that I would be tracking the car once in a while

    Mar 26, 2008 3:51:59 AM

    MMD
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    Reply to: cibergypsy

    Re: US spec Carrera S limited slip diff question..

    I get why you're interested in getting it, Cybergypsy. I hope you get it sorted out.

    I'm just wondering if I'm missing something as far as street use (oh, and resale!?) is concerned.

    Mar 26, 2008 4:22:42 AM

    cibergypsy
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    Re: US spec Carrera S limited slip diff question..

    So do I, believe me. To complicate matters worse, I just saw today a 2004 GT3 with 8k miles and Certified Pre-Owned warranty in black with black. It had sports seats and PCCB and it already got a deposit and, if the buyer purchases it by Thursday, the price he'd be getting it for is $76k at our local Porsche dealer. I think it is a great price considering he's getting a CPO certification and PCCBs. The car is near flawless too!

    I said to complicate matters worse because the sale is pending and, if it doesn't go through, I'll be getting a call from them and must decide quickly. I'm a little reluctant at taking a huge hit on my car since I paid $123k for it. Also, I have 2 kids and they love going places with me in the 997 which they won't be able to do on a GT3. Why couldn't Porsche put the GT3 engine, albeit with less power, in the Carreras except for the obvious answer which is more profit margin. It wasn't like that until 1998.

    Mar 26, 2008 9:09:31 AM

    Carlos from SpainM
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    Reply to: cibergypsy

    Re: US spec Carrera S limited slip diff question..

    Quote:
    cibergypsy said:I read on Paul Frère's book "The Porsche 911 Story" that an LSD would not be compatible with PSM and was, therefore, not offered on the 996 with PSM. Nevertheless, don't the European 997s that have the -20mm sports suspension and LSD also have PSM? I was under the impression they did and that would make this LSD available in the North American PET catalog a plausible possibility, wouldn't it?



    Towards the end of the 996 production life they managed to finally make PSM pseudo-compatible with rear LSD in the 911 40th anniversary edition wich had it standard, but its a special rear LSD with lower locking rates. Lower than the GT3 or GT2s, and lower than the 1999 Carrera2's that had LSD as an option since they did not have PSM standard yet(those that had TC and not PSM, could opt for a rear LSD as an option).

    Now in the 997S with -20mm suspensions its standard as well but with 22%/27% locking only again since it needs to be compatible with PSM. However its not a bolt-on part, its realtionship with PSM seems to be complicated and its only a factory option and only for the -20mm spec, and has always been a factory only option for the 996/997 that coulp opt for it from factory.

    I have never heard of anyone being able to install it post factory on the 997 (wether US or EUro spec), much less get any type of approval or warranty by Porsche, since this is not an option, not even in Europe. This is why we are suspicious of what you are being told at the dealer. For example, the Champion dealiership has been offering ts clients the -20mm suspension for US cars for some 2 years now, but while it includes the shocks/springs/swaybars, it never included the rear LSD.
     
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