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    Mar 16, 2008 4:12:59 PM

    KresoF1
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    KresoF1
    Loc: Croatia , Croatia
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    Reply to: Crash

    Re: Tested a new M3 today

    Andrej,
    Did not drove it yet. BUT, according to my Motorpresse friend it is a failure. Why? Overweight, AMS measured 2148kg!!! 0-200km/h is 15.2s so it did not meet Audi factory claim(14.9s). Forget about current Auto Bild dream 0-200km/h time(14.3s), it is overoptimistic(I know why...)...
    In short RS6 Avant is more competitor to Cayenne Turbo then to M5 or E63....

    BTW, S-Tronic with 7speed is ready for A4/A5 platform. First user will be new Q5, then new S4 and little bit later(cca early 2009) S5.

    BUT, current SOTA is M3 with M-DKG. Unbelivable how good it is! If PDK will be that good I will think about 997 series again...
    M3 with M-DKG has more traction then manual version, accelerates better in all conditions, upshifts are REALLY without any power lost and downshifts are rev matched with nice throttle bips(smaller or bigger depending on selected shift speed, for example best programm for everyday use is S4 in manual mode with full DSC on and suspension in Confort). Even full auto D mode works excellent...
    In short-I am floored with it!

    Mar 16, 2008 4:14:30 PM

    MKSGRM
    Rennteam Moderator
    MKSGR
    Loc: Germany , Germany
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    Registered on: Jun 17, 2002
    Reply to: Crash

    Re: Tested a new M3 today

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Had a chance to drive shortly(45mins) M3 Coupe with M-DKG(press car with M plates). In short-awsome! Best buy all-over... IMHO all sequential manuals a la F1, e-Gear or R-Tronic will be history in less then two years. YES, M-DKG is that good IMO. Blistering fast in gearchanges, smooth enough at the same time, no stupid need for throttle modulation as on sequential manual... Fantastic... For me new M3 only with M-DKG. I am so impressed that I will order one...
    One last thing-M3 with M-DKG is faster then R8 with R-Tronic. In fact belive it or not above 200km/h a lot faster.



    Kreso,

    how do you feel about the new RS6?



    The RS6 has a major disadvantage over the M3... It is nearly twice as expensive

    I must admit that the M3 sedan with DSG is a highly attractive package. You could buy it, enjoy it and still safe some money (depreciation...) vs. the RS6. On the other hand the RS6 offers lots of interior space and AWD for the rainy/snowy days in life...

    Mar 16, 2008 4:16:42 PM

    MKSGRM
    Rennteam Moderator
    MKSGR
    Loc: Germany , Germany
    Posts: 8098, Gallery
    Registered on: Jun 17, 2002
    Reply to: KresoF1

    Re: Tested a new M3 today

    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Andrej,
    Did not drove it yet. BUT, according to my Motorpresse friend it is a failure. Why? Overweight, AMS measured 2148kg!!! 0-200km/h is 15.2s so it did not meet Audi factory claim(14.9s). Forget about current Auto Bild dream 0-200km/h time(14.3s), it is overoptimistic(I know why...)...
    In short RS6 Avant is more competitor to Cayenne Turbo then to M5 or E63....




    Track performance seems to be OK, BTW. I am sure you have read the AutoBild article? Nearly 1s faster than M5, nearly 3s faster than the E63... Not bad

    Mar 16, 2008 4:20:59 PM

    KresoF1
    Rennteam VIP
    KresoF1
    Loc: Croatia , Croatia
    Posts: 7856, Gallery
    Registered on: Dec 3, 2005
    Reply to: MKSGRM

    Re: Tested a new M3 today

    Auto Bild test example of RS6 Avant features more then 600ps(maybe even more)... Trust me on this...
    AMS test clearly show all minuses of that car, wait for next issue of Sport Auto-not that impressive test results at all...

    Mar 16, 2008 4:29:51 PM

    MKSGRM
    Rennteam Moderator
    MKSGR
    Loc: Germany , Germany
    Posts: 8098, Gallery
    Registered on: Jun 17, 2002
    Reply to: KresoF1

    Re: Tested a new M3 today

    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Auto Bild test example of RS6 Avant features more then 600ps(maybe even more)... Trust me on this...
    AMS test clearly show all minuses of that car, wait for next issue of Sport Auto-not that impressive test results at all...



    The RS6 still seems to exhibit a significant amount of understeer... Typical Audi characteristics...

    The problem with the M3: could be a bit small as a family car. Otherwise: great package (but only with DSG!).

    Mar 16, 2008 5:54:49 PM

    Crash
    Rennteam VIP
    Crash
    Loc: Never been to , Antarctica
    Posts: 8287, Gallery
    Registered on: Oct 17, 2002
    Reply to: MKSGRM

    Re: Tested a new M3 today

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Auto Bild test example of RS6 Avant features more then 600ps(maybe even more)... Trust me on this...
    AMS test clearly show all minuses of that car, wait for next issue of Sport Auto-not that impressive test results at all...



    The RS6 still seems to exhibit a significant amount of understeer... Typical Audi characteristics...

    The problem with the M3: could be a bit small as a family car. Otherwise: great package (but only with DSG!).



    The M3 certainly seems to provide some very good value. Personally, if I were to switch my car for something more powerful, I'd just get the RS5 once it comes out.

    Mar 16, 2008 5:56:15 PM

    Crash
    Rennteam VIP
    Crash
    Loc: Never been to , Antarctica
    Posts: 8287, Gallery
    Registered on: Oct 17, 2002
    Reply to: KresoF1

    Re: Tested a new M3 today

    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Andrej,
    Did not drove it yet. BUT, according to my Motorpresse friend it is a failure. Why? Overweight, AMS measured 2148kg!!! 0-200km/h is 15.2s so it did not meet Audi factory claim(14.9s). Forget about current Auto Bild dream 0-200km/h time(14.3s), it is overoptimistic(I know why...)...
    In short RS6 Avant is more competitor to Cayenne Turbo then to M5 or E63....

    BTW, S-Tronic with 7speed is ready for A4/A5 platform. First user will be new Q5, then new S4 and little bit later(cca early 2009) S5.

    BUT, current SOTA is M3 with M-DKG. Unbelivable how good it is! If PDK will be that good I will think about 997 series again...
    M3 with M-DKG has more traction then manual version, accelerates better in all conditions, upshifts are REALLY without any power lost and downshifts are rev matched with nice throttle bips(smaller or bigger depending on selected shift speed, for example best programm for everyday use is S4 in manual mode with full DSC on and suspension in Confort). Even full auto D mode works excellent...
    In short-I am floored with it!



    Ouch! That's almost as heavy as that pig, the CL65 .

    Mar 16, 2008 6:39:27 PM

    MKSGRM
    Rennteam Moderator
    MKSGR
    Loc: Germany , Germany
    Posts: 8098, Gallery
    Registered on: Jun 17, 2002
    Reply to: Crash

    Re: Tested a new M3 today

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Auto Bild test example of RS6 Avant features more then 600ps(maybe even more)... Trust me on this...
    AMS test clearly show all minuses of that car, wait for next issue of Sport Auto-not that impressive test results at all...



    The RS6 still seems to exhibit a significant amount of understeer... Typical Audi characteristics...

    The problem with the M3: could be a bit small as a family car. Otherwise: great package (but only with DSG!).



    The M3 certainly seems to provide some very good value. Personally, if I were to switch my car for something more powerful, I'd just get the RS5 once it comes out.



    The Audi A5 has an excellent design. With the RS5 engine the car would be a tough competitor to M3 and maybe even M5

    Mar 16, 2008 6:44:13 PM

    KresoF1
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    KresoF1
    Loc: Croatia , Croatia
    Posts: 7856, Gallery
    Registered on: Dec 3, 2005
    Reply to: MKSGRM

    Re: Tested a new M3 today

    RS5 will be introduced in late 2009 so, waiting for it is SM job IMHO... Regarding RS5 engine-it will feature max. 450hp engine and its performance will be on current M3 level...

    Mar 16, 2008 7:18:11 PM

    MKSGRM
    Rennteam Moderator
    MKSGR
    Loc: Germany , Germany
    Posts: 8098, Gallery
    Registered on: Jun 17, 2002
    Reply to: KresoF1

    Re: Tested a new M3 today

    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    RS5 will be introduced in late 2009 so, waiting for it is SM job IMHO... Regarding RS5 engine-it will feature max. 450hp engine and its performance will be on current M3 level...



    One consideration that crossed my mind earlier this afternoon: will the 3 series facelift affect the M3 as well? Based on earlier infos the FL is due this fall, right

    Mar 16, 2008 7:36:41 PM

    KresoF1
    Rennteam VIP
    KresoF1
    Loc: Croatia , Croatia
    Posts: 7856, Gallery
    Registered on: Dec 3, 2005
    Reply to: MKSGRM

    Re: Tested a new M3 today

    Just 3er Limousine. Coupe will not be facelifted...

    Mar 16, 2008 8:06:28 PM

    Crash
    Rennteam VIP
    Crash
    Loc: Never been to , Antarctica
    Posts: 8287, Gallery
    Registered on: Oct 17, 2002
    Reply to: MKSGRM

    Re: Tested a new M3 today

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Auto Bild test example of RS6 Avant features more then 600ps(maybe even more)... Trust me on this...
    AMS test clearly show all minuses of that car, wait for next issue of Sport Auto-not that impressive test results at all...



    The RS6 still seems to exhibit a significant amount of understeer... Typical Audi characteristics...

    The problem with the M3: could be a bit small as a family car. Otherwise: great package (but only with DSG!).



    The M3 certainly seems to provide some very good value. Personally, if I were to switch my car for something more powerful, I'd just get the RS5 once it comes out.



    The Audi A5 has an excellent design. With the RS5 engine the car would be a tough competitor to M3 and maybe even M5



    It will probably be a bit faster than the M3, and I'm sure that in itself is enough for 'brisk' Autobahn driving .

    Mar 16, 2008 9:54:35 PM

    janus Offline
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    janus
    Loc: Croatia
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    Registered on: Jul 13, 2004
    Reply to: Crash

    Re: Tested a new M3 today

    So by all this new Audi info thre will be no "autobox" for S5 until early 2009!?

    Mar 16, 2008 10:26:43 PM

    Moogle
    Rennteam Master
    Moogle
    Loc: Bay Area , United States
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    Reply to: janus

    Re: Tested a new M3 today

    DSG gearboxes will phase out all torque converters in premium cars by 20xx? fill in the blank

    Mar 16, 2008 10:33:14 PM

    Moogle
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    Moogle
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    Registered on: Aug 9, 2003
    Reply to: JoeRockhead

    Re: Tested a new M3 today

    Quote:
    JoeRockhead said:
    Quote:
    AUM said:
    Quote:
    Heist said:

    I actually know of 2 people who sold their M3 deposits once the GT-R's figures and performance numbers hit the net

    The GT-R is going to make a lot of people reconsider an M3 and definitely cannibalize sales.



    BMW knows this too and hopefully will be inspired to make the CSL as fast as the GTR - as well as at lot lighter and more fun to drive.



    Unfortunately for us, once again, no 'CSL' variants coming to North America according to my dealer.



    We never get the really great stuff.

    Mar 16, 2008 11:19:25 PM

    Crash
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    Crash
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    Registered on: Oct 17, 2002
    Reply to: Moogle

    Re: Tested a new M3 today

    Quote:
    Moogle said:
    DSG gearboxes will phase out all torque converters in premium cars by 20xx? fill in the blank



    More like 201x. They have to sort out torque capacity first.

    Mar 17, 2008 6:59:49 AM

    KresoF1
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    KresoF1
    Loc: Croatia , Croatia
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    Reply to: janus

    Re: Tested a new M3 today

    Quote:
    janus said:
    So by all this new Audi info thre will be no "autobox" for S5 until early 2009!?



    NO. S5 is from 11/2007 available for order with ordinary Tiptronic as well. But, is it a wise buy since in less then one year this Tiptronic will be history(replaced by S-Tronic with 7speed)?

    Mar 17, 2008 7:06:20 AM

    KresoF1
    Rennteam VIP
    KresoF1
    Loc: Croatia , Croatia
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    Registered on: Dec 3, 2005
    Reply to: Crash

    Re: Tested a new M3 today

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    Moogle said:
    DSG gearboxes will phase out all torque converters in premium cars by 20xx? fill in the blank



    More like 201x. They have to sort out torque capacity first.



    Well... NOT really...
    http://www.automobilwoche.de/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080306/DPA/803060322/1008/REPOSITORY

    New S-Tronic with 7speed can handle 550Nm so it will go into all models, save S6/S8/A8 W12(that one will be history soon!) and big V8/V12 diesels.
    From early 2009 it will be in S4/S5, Q5, A4/A5(3.2 patrol and 2.7/3.0 TDI), A6...

    Mar 17, 2008 7:57:05 AM

    Crash
    Rennteam VIP
    Crash
    Loc: Never been to , Antarctica
    Posts: 8287, Gallery
    Registered on: Oct 17, 2002
    Reply to: KresoF1

    Re: Tested a new M3 today

    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    Moogle said:
    DSG gearboxes will phase out all torque converters in premium cars by 20xx? fill in the blank



    More like 201x. They have to sort out torque capacity first.



    Well... NOT really...
    http://www.automobilwoche.de/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080306/DPA/803060322/1008/REPOSITORY

    New S-Tronic with 7speed can handle 550Nm so it will go into all models, save S6/S8/A8 W12(that one will be history soon!) and big V8/V12 diesels.
    From early 2009 it will be in S4/S5, Q5, A4/A5(3.2 patrol and 2.7/3.0 TDI), A6...



    So the W12 is out. Why not just upgrade it with direct injection? Seems to work very well with the RS6 engine (smaller consumption with more power, more weight and AWD than the E63 and M5) and I believe Audi needs a top-end engine for the A8. The S8 V10 just isn't as luxurious as the W12.

    Mar 17, 2008 8:02:59 AM

    MKSGRM
    Rennteam Moderator
    MKSGR
    Loc: Germany , Germany
    Posts: 8098, Gallery
    Registered on: Jun 17, 2002
    Reply to: Crash

    Re: Tested a new M3 today

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    Moogle said:
    DSG gearboxes will phase out all torque converters in premium cars by 20xx? fill in the blank



    More like 201x. They have to sort out torque capacity first.



    Well... NOT really...
    http://www.automobilwoche.de/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080306/DPA/803060322/1008/REPOSITORY

    New S-Tronic with 7speed can handle 550Nm so it will go into all models, save S6/S8/A8 W12(that one will be history soon!) and big V8/V12 diesels.
    From early 2009 it will be in S4/S5, Q5, A4/A5(3.2 patrol and 2.7/3.0 TDI), A6...



    So the W12 is out. Why not just upgrade it with direct injection? Seems to work very well with the RS6 engine (smaller consumption with more power, more weight and AWD than the E63 and M5) and I believe Audi needs a top-end engine for the A8. The S8 V10 just isn't as luxurious as the W12.



    100% agree: the W12 is an important engine for the A8. Also, major competition offers V12 engines as well...

    Mar 17, 2008 8:32:30 AM

    Crash
    Rennteam VIP
    Crash
    Loc: Never been to , Antarctica
    Posts: 8287, Gallery
    Registered on: Oct 17, 2002
    Reply to: MKSGRM

    Re: Tested a new M3 today

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    Moogle said:
    DSG gearboxes will phase out all torque converters in premium cars by 20xx? fill in the blank



    More like 201x. They have to sort out torque capacity first.



    Well... NOT really...
    http://www.automobilwoche.de/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080306/DPA/803060322/1008/REPOSITORY

    New S-Tronic with 7speed can handle 550Nm so it will go into all models, save S6/S8/A8 W12(that one will be history soon!) and big V8/V12 diesels.
    From early 2009 it will be in S4/S5, Q5, A4/A5(3.2 patrol and 2.7/3.0 TDI), A6...



    So the W12 is out. Why not just upgrade it with direct injection? Seems to work very well with the RS6 engine (smaller consumption with more power, more weight and AWD than the E63 and M5) and I believe Audi needs a top-end engine for the A8. The S8 V10 just isn't as luxurious as the W12.



    100% agree: the W12 is an important engine for the A8. Also, major competition offers V12 engines as well...



    Very true. And nothing beats the silky smooth sound of a 12-cylinder in a car of this caliber.

    Mar 17, 2008 8:44:01 AM

    janus Offline
    Veteran
    janus
    Loc: Croatia
    Posts: 1067, Gallery
    Registered on: Jul 13, 2004
    Reply to: Crash

    Re: Tested a new M3 today

    How about 660i and call it M66
    That would be funny

    Mar 17, 2008 9:55:08 AM

    KresoF1
    Rennteam VIP
    KresoF1
    Loc: Croatia , Croatia
    Posts: 7856, Gallery
    Registered on: Dec 3, 2005
    Reply to: MKSGRM

    Re: Tested a new M3 today

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    Moogle said:
    DSG gearboxes will phase out all torque converters in premium cars by 20xx? fill in the blank



    More like 201x. They have to sort out torque capacity first.



    Well... NOT really...
    http://www.automobilwoche.de/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080306/DPA/803060322/1008/REPOSITORY

    New S-Tronic with 7speed can handle 550Nm so it will go into all models, save S6/S8/A8 W12(that one will be history soon!) and big V8/V12 diesels.
    From early 2009 it will be in S4/S5, Q5, A4/A5(3.2 patrol and 2.7/3.0 TDI), A6...



    So the W12 is out. Why not just upgrade it with direct injection? Seems to work very well with the RS6 engine (smaller consumption with more power, more weight and AWD than the E63 and M5) and I believe Audi needs a top-end engine for the A8. The S8 V10 just isn't as luxurious as the W12.



    100% agree: the W12 is an important engine for the A8. Also, major competition offers V12 engines as well...



    New A8 will offer V12 engine. V12 TDI engine with 500hp/1000Nm...

    Mar 17, 2008 10:14:23 AM

    MKSGRM
    Rennteam Moderator
    MKSGR
    Loc: Germany , Germany
    Posts: 8098, Gallery
    Registered on: Jun 17, 2002
    Reply to: KresoF1

    Re: Tested a new M3 today

    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    Moogle said:
    DSG gearboxes will phase out all torque converters in premium cars by 20xx? fill in the blank



    More like 201x. They have to sort out torque capacity first.



    Well... NOT really...
    http://www.automobilwoche.de/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080306/DPA/803060322/1008/REPOSITORY

    New S-Tronic with 7speed can handle 550Nm so it will go into all models, save S6/S8/A8 W12(that one will be history soon!) and big V8/V12 diesels.
    From early 2009 it will be in S4/S5, Q5, A4/A5(3.2 patrol and 2.7/3.0 TDI), A6...



    So the W12 is out. Why not just upgrade it with direct injection? Seems to work very well with the RS6 engine (smaller consumption with more power, more weight and AWD than the E63 and M5) and I believe Audi needs a top-end engine for the A8. The S8 V10 just isn't as luxurious as the W12.



    100% agree: the W12 is an important engine for the A8. Also, major competition offers V12 engines as well...



    New A8 will offer V12 engine. V12 TDI engine with 500hp/1000Nm...



    Although I have never driven a V12 TDi I would suspect that it cannot match a non-diesel V12 (or W12) at all in terms of smoothness and sound... I strongly vote for a traditional V12 or W12

    Mar 17, 2008 10:24:45 AM

    Crash
    Rennteam VIP
    Crash
    Loc: Never been to , Antarctica
    Posts: 8287, Gallery
    Registered on: Oct 17, 2002
    Reply to: MKSGRM

    Re: Tested a new M3 today

    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Quote:
    MKSGR said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    KresoF1 said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:
    Quote:
    Moogle said:
    DSG gearboxes will phase out all torque converters in premium cars by 20xx? fill in the blank



    More like 201x. They have to sort out torque capacity first.



    Well... NOT really...
    http://www.automobilwoche.de/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080306/DPA/803060322/1008/REPOSITORY

    New S-Tronic with 7speed can handle 550Nm so it will go into all models, save S6/S8/A8 W12(that one will be history soon!) and big V8/V12 diesels.
    From early 2009 it will be in S4/S5, Q5, A4/A5(3.2 patrol and 2.7/3.0 TDI), A6...



    So the W12 is out. Why not just upgrade it with direct injection? Seems to work very well with the RS6 engine (smaller consumption with more power, more weight and AWD than the E63 and M5) and I believe Audi needs a top-end engine for the A8. The S8 V10 just isn't as luxurious as the W12.



    100% agree: the W12 is an important engine for the A8. Also, major competition offers V12 engines as well...



    New A8 will offer V12 engine. V12 TDI engine with 500hp/1000Nm...



    Although I have never driven a V12 TDi I would suspect that it cannot match a non-diesel V12 (or W12) at all in terms of smoothness and sound... I strongly vote for a traditional V12 or W12



    I do too. I would think that most guys who can afford a Euro 140.000 car won't exactly be clenching their wallets in shock when at the gas station. Besides, FSI would easily reduce consumption by two litres. Just look at the RS6.
     
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