Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: Racism at Barcelona F1 test - Page1

Feb 14, 2008 6:17:32 PM

racerx: Rennteam VIP; Loc: 1985 porsche dealership , Bouvet Island; Posts: 8751, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 27, 2004; Reply to: easy_rider911

Re: Racism at Barcelona F1 test

Quote:
easy_rider911 said:
So you actually think the US campaign in Vietnam was justified? We must have read very different history books

That's the thing, I grew up watching it every night on TV. I did not depend on 1 person's opinion in a book although i have read extensively on it.

Not only justified, but morally correct and honorable. To defend a weak nation against a determined, organised, and well supplied invasion of totalitarians. Just look at the films of our pull-out and the desperation of those who wanted to leave with us.

Look at the history of the boat people the were fleeing from there.

Had we not pulled out, there would have been no genocide aka "the killing fields" next door, paul pot ....etc

You simply do not know what you are talking about on this one. The more you say the worse you look.

Our pull-out there caused untold misery and murders. You should read what the North and the VC did to the residents of HUE during TET.

Freedom and capitalism over evil dictatorship anyday!!!!!

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Feb 14, 2008 6:26:26 PM

reginos: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Nicosia , Cyprus; Posts: 12130, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 20, 2005; Reply to: easy_rider911

Re: Racism at Barcelona F1 test

Quote:
easy_rider911 said:
Politically correct?? Only someone who has never faced racism can speak like that.

If you were non-white, like I am, you'd be absolutely furious at the disgusting, racist behaviour of those st*pid idi*ts that pulled that stunt.

Do you actually think that someone like me reacts against what they did to Hamilton out of political correctness?

I think you should take your words back at once.

My friend I think you are over-reacting. If my remarks offended you accept my sympathy. What I mean is that there is an inherent racism of various sorts in the human nature. Not only confined to colour or racial origin but also religion, social standing, occupation even physical appearance and ability. I accept this as a fact of life, evil if you want, like I accept many other shortcomings of mankind. When we over-react to minor incidents like the Hamilton affair we make things worse and wind up more fuss and possible retaliation. I sure respect any hardship you might have in the UK as a non-english, but if somebody went to live in the country of origin of your parents he/she might face racism of some kind , I am sure. Because that's how life has always been.

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Feb 14, 2008 6:31:41 PM

JoeRockhead: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Topside , Monaco; Posts: 8033, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 17, 2007; Reply to: easy_rider911

Re: Racism at Barcelona F1 test

Quote:
easy_rider911 said:
So you actually think the US campaign in Vietnam was justified? We must have read very different history books. I guess you still cling on to the idea that the US invasion of Iraq was a good thing too?

The US supported the South when the Chinese-supported North invaded. The Northern army was supplied by China, while using the Ho Chi Min trail through Laos and Cambodia which claimed they were neutral, but were far from it. The South didn't have a chance without the US, as evidenced by their quick defeat after the US pulled out under the terms of '73 PEace Accord, which was ignored by the sneaky North as soon as the Americans had left. That's what it says in my history book, FYI.

As for the US/UK invasion of Iraq, that's still being written. And I think we're all off topic

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Feb 14, 2008 7:51:55 PM

easy_rider911: Rennteam VIP; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 22190, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 8, 2004; Reply to: reginos

Re: Racism at Barcelona F1 test

Quote:
reginos said:
Quote:
easy_rider911 said:
Politically correct?? Only someone who has never faced racism can speak like that.

If you were non-white, like I am, you'd be absolutely furious at the disgusting, racist behaviour of those st*pid idi*ts that pulled that stunt.

Do you actually think that someone like me reacts against what they did to Hamilton out of political correctness?

I think you should take your words back at once.

My friend I think you are over-reacting. If my remarks offended you accept my sympathy. What I mean is that there is an inherent racism of various sorts in the human nature. Not only confined to colour or racial origin but also religion, social standing, occupation even physical appearance and ability. I accept this as a fact of life, evil if you want, like I accept many other shortcomings of mankind. When we over-react to minor incidents like the Hamilton affair we make things worse and wind up more fuss and possible retaliation. I sure respect any hardship you might have in the UK as a non-english, but if somebody went to live in the country of origin of your parents he/she might face racism of some kind , I am sure. Because that's how life has always been.

No harm done

I agree with much of what you wrote but, the fact that people may, through lack of education, be inherently racist doesn't mean we should ever condone that. It is vital to face up to racism whenever and wherever it rears its ugly head rather than just shrugging our shoulders and saying it's human nature. As such, I wasn't over-reacting.

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Feb 14, 2008 8:55:05 PM

easy_rider911: Rennteam VIP; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 22190, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 8, 2004; Reply to: easy_rider911

Re: Racism at Barcelona F1 test

@racerx, I'm not intending to start a war of words with you. I enjoy your company and I have no personal axe to grind against the USA (a country I have great fondness for despite its faults). And yes, this is all off-topic.

I agree with everything JoeRockhead wrote word for word. I read and studied exactly the same thing. I didn't learn my history from just 1 book nor from biased or propagandist TV!!

Let me put just one question to you. Ask yourself what business it was of the USA to defend South Vietnam against a Chinese-backed North Vietnamese invasion thousands of miles away from mainland USA? Back then, the US took it upon itself to fight communism wherever it chose to around the world. The legal 'fiction' that the US used to justify its military intervention in Vietnam was a legally untenable doctrine of fighting communism as a form of defending US national security when Vietnam posed no actual threat to mainland USA. Sadly the UN was supine and never intervened to condemn the US actions in Vietnam.

You were also talking about how the US was 'invited' into South Vietnam. These are simply niceties. Like re-arranging the deckchairs on the Titanic.

I certainly don't think the US campaign in Vietnam was justified, morally correct or honourable nor was the manner in which the US fought there honourable. Bombing and flattening a country into oblivion and setting it on fire with napalm is hardly honourable.

Certainly North Vietnam committed terrible atrocities against South Vietnamese. But it was their conflict. It did not concern the USA. The USA did not go there out of humanitarian reasons but out of a misdirected anti-communist zealotry.

We must never forget that millions died in the two world wars to create a new world where nations cannot simply use military force against another nation out of some political purpose. The UN Charter enshrines this basic principle that the USA signed up to in 1945.

Still, I've said what I have to say. I don't mean to offend or annoy you with what I have written. I'm merely stating my opinion. You will of course disagree and I respect that. I would therefore prefer to agree to disagree and return to talking about F1.

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Feb 14, 2008 10:35:26 PM

SoCal Alan: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Orange County , United States; Posts: 7268, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 6, 2004; Reply to: easy_rider911

Re: Racism at Barcelona F1 test

Quote:
easy_rider911 said:
Let me put just one question to you. Ask yourself what business it was of the USA to defend South Vietnam against a Chinese-backed North Vietnamese invasion thousands of miles away from mainland USA? Back then, the US took it upon itself to fight communism wherever it chose to around the world.

What business was it of the USA to defend England against Nazi Germany in 1944, thousands of miles away from mainland USA?

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Feb 14, 2008 11:26:22 PM

easy_rider911: Rennteam VIP; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 22190, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 8, 2004; Reply to: SoCal Alan

Re: Racism at Barcelona F1 test

Precisely

You have unintentionally proven my point

The USA did not even enter the 2nd World War until after the attack on Pearl Harbor on 7 Dec 1941 i.e. long after the 2WW had actually begun. It was an unprovoked attack on the US Pacific Fleet stationed on US soil that triggered US involvement.

Why did the US help the UK? Because Japan (with whom the US was now at war), Nazi Germany and Mussolini's fascist Italy formed an alliance against the Allies. That was why the US agreed to fight alongside the British against Nazi Germany, Japan and Italy.

Britain did not fight Germany even though country after country was toppling to Nazi invasion. Britain only went to war against Nazi Germany after Hitler's intention to attack Britain became clear i.e. when it was clear an attack against British soil was imminent.

In any event, the 2nd World War happened before the UN Charter was signed in 1945 in San Francisco. The UN Charter fundamentally changed the ius cogens i.e. the fundamental rules of public international law that govern the relationship between sovereign nation states.

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Feb 14, 2008 11:46:10 PM

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2002; Reply to: easy_rider911

Re: Racism at Barcelona F1 test

My historical knowledge could be a bit shakey, but I seem to recall Britain and France declaring war on Germany immediately after it attacked Poland, but not doing anything about it (and instead just digging in at the Maginot line).

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Feb 15, 2008 7:18:51 AM

easy_rider911: Rennteam VIP; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 22190, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 8, 2004; Reply to: Crash

Re: Racism at Barcelona F1 test

You're right Crash but we're saying the same thing in different ways. Britain stated that it was now in a state of war with Nazi Germany when Poland was invaded because that was when it became clear that Hitler's intention was to carry on heading towards Britain.

Britain didn't enter a state of war with Nazi Germany earlier than that point when countries like Austria, Switzerland, Hungary, Czech Republic etc were all toppling like dominoes to the Nazi troops. That phase of the war is known in Britain as the 'phoney war'.

AFAIK Hitler started bombing the UK (the Blitz we call it) after Poland fell.

Having entered a state of war, the UK didn't 'do anything' about it militarily because it wasn't in a position to do so i.e. it didn't counterattack until it had built enough planes, tanks etc to be able to fight. Factories were requisitioned and converted from manufacturing civilian products to producing military equipment. That all takes time.

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Feb 15, 2008 9:36:34 AM

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2002; Reply to: easy_rider911

Re: Racism at Barcelona F1 test

Yep, that is all true. However, some argue that Hitler wouldn't even have bothered with Britain, had it not declared war on Germany (personally, I'm glad it did, but still

).

Vietnam doesn't bother me, really. 1965 was a very different time and the US and the USSR were actually fighting to carve out their zones of influence. What the White house was afraid of was the entire region succumbing to a Communist onslaught, in case South Vietnam would fall. Seems naive today, but it was a very real concern back then. That being said, the way their pioliticians waged that war was borderline criminal. Almost ten years of attrition, bombing and setting their forests on fire, only to delay the inevitable. When Johnson took the decision to go in, they should've been committed to a full-scale invasion, not pussyfooting all over the DMZ. It would've resulted in less both US and Vietnamese casualties and the conflict would've been over much sooner and I'm sure with much weaker public outrage.

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Feb 15, 2008 10:25:39 AM

cgt: Co-Pilot; Loc: London; Posts: 243, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 24, 2004; Reply to: Crash

Re: Racism at Barcelona F1 test

I'm with easy on this. Personally I think such views, implied or explicit, are deplorable in this day and age. That picture at the top of the Times article I thought was sickening and I'm amazed at the tone of the article.

Making excuses or even subtly condoning such behaviour is where much bigger things begin. Since we are talking about history, look back at how Hitler started his campaign against the Jews.

And as far as Hamilton, I dont think he has a hope in hell of the championship this year anyway. Ferrari will dominate in my view.

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Feb 15, 2008 10:35:13 AM

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2002; Reply to: cgt

Re: Racism at Barcelona F1 test

Quote:
cgt said:
I'm with easy on this. Personally I think such views, implied or explicit, are deplorable in this day and age. That picture at the top of the Times article I thought was sickening and I'm amazed at the tone of the article.

Making excuses or even subtly condoning such behaviour is where much bigger things begin. Since we are talking about history, look back at how Hitler started his campaign against the Jews.

And as far as Hamilton, I dont think he has a hope in hell of the championship this year anyway. Ferrari will dominate in my view.

CGT, actually, if you read the reader comments, one of them commented on the fact that the guys in the picture aren't the ones spouting racist slogans. These guys, dressed as "Hamilton's family" apparently had the idea that it would look funny if they dressed like this and then appeared to cheer for Alonso. I find nothing racist about that, although the potential for a misunderstanding certainly is there.

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Feb 15, 2008 10:55:42 AM

easy_rider911: Rennteam VIP; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 22190, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 8, 2004; Reply to: Crash

Re: Racism at Barcelona F1 test

@Crash: here in the UK people still remember Al Jolson and also the Black and White Minstrel Show in the 1970s. It was prime time showbiz entertainment where white stage artists would cover their faces in black boot polish and sing all kind of songs...

When I think back to that stuff, I just can't believe people thought that was okay. I guess times were very different back then

So seeing these young guys pulling the same stunt was especially horrifying...

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Feb 15, 2008 11:01:17 AM

easy_rider911: Rennteam VIP; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 22190, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 8, 2004; Reply to: cgt

Re: Racism at Barcelona F1 test

Quote:
cgt said:
And as far as Hamilton, I dont think he has a hope in hell of the championship this year anyway. Ferrari will dominate in my view.

Exactly

I made exactly the same point in my thread on the 2008 F1 Season. In pre-season testing, it's clear that Ferrari are so far ahead in terms of performance that everyone else will simply be competing for 3rd place (assuming no errors by Ferrari or its drivers in qualification or the race itself)...

In fact, I gather that Ferrari's performance is so strong that they do not intend to introduce some of their more radical development work until later in the season because they just don't need to. They're so confident of being faster with the car just as it is...

This could be a very tedious season

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Feb 15, 2008 11:03:16 AM

zzboba: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Germany; Posts: 3115, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 8, 2002; Reply to: Crash

Re: Racism at Barcelona F1 test

This is from sniffpetrol.com:

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Feb 15, 2008 11:07:25 AM

cgt: Co-Pilot; Loc: London; Posts: 243, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 24, 2004; Reply to: Crash

Re: Racism at Barcelona F1 test

Quote:
Crash said:
Quote:
cgt said:
I'm with easy on this. Personally I think such views, implied or explicit, are deplorable in this day and age. That picture at the top of the Times article I thought was sickening and I'm amazed at the tone of the article.

Making excuses or even subtly condoning such behaviour is where much bigger things begin. Since we are talking about history, look back at how Hitler started his campaign against the Jews.

And as far as Hamilton, I dont think he has a hope in hell of the championship this year anyway. Ferrari will dominate in my view.

CGT, actually, if you read the reader comments, one of them commented on the fact that the guys in the picture aren't the ones spouting racist slogans. These guys, dressed as "Hamilton's family" apparently had the idea that it would look funny if they dressed like this and then appeared to cheer for Alonso. I find nothing racist about that, although the potential for a misunderstanding certainly is there.

I'm absolutely amazed that you find nothing racist about that. I really am flabbergasted by your comment.

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Feb 15, 2008 11:08:58 AM

Enzo II: Veteran; Loc: Spain , Spain; Posts: 1248, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 1, 2006; Reply to: zzboba

Re: Racism at Barcelona F1 test

JA
JA

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Feb 15, 2008 11:15:30 AM

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2002; Reply to: cgt

Re: Racism at Barcelona F1 test

Quote:
cgt said:
Quote:
Crash said:
Quote:
cgt said:
I'm with easy on this. Personally I think such views, implied or explicit, are deplorable in this day and age. That picture at the top of the Times article I thought was sickening and I'm amazed at the tone of the article.

Making excuses or even subtly condoning such behaviour is where much bigger things begin. Since we are talking about history, look back at how Hitler started his campaign against the Jews.

And as far as Hamilton, I dont think he has a hope in hell of the championship this year anyway. Ferrari will dominate in my view.

CGT, actually, if you read the reader comments, one of them commented on the fact that the guys in the picture aren't the ones spouting racist slogans. These guys, dressed as "Hamilton's family" apparently had the idea that it would look funny if they dressed like this and then appeared to cheer for Alonso. I find nothing racist about that, although the potential for a misunderstanding certainly is there.

I'm absolutely amazed that you find nothing racist about that. I really am flabbergasted by your comment.

I don't care if you're appalled, horrified, shocked, stupefied or flabbergasted, I don't find that racist, period. The same as I wouldn't mind if some black guys dressed as caucasians and pulled a similar stunt. Everybody should relax and stop taking themselves so damn seriously. It was a joke without any malicious intent. I would expect a much more relaxed attitude from members of Europe's supposedly most multicultural society. The fact that you actually acknowledge race as a huge factor demonstrates that you are still far from complete racial acceptance, where you guys would say: "Look at those nutters, dressing up as Hamilton's family," instead of "Look at those racist pigs, picking on a poor minority!" Just give it a rest.

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Feb 15, 2008 11:18:23 AM

easy_rider911: Rennteam VIP; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 22190, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 8, 2004; Reply to: easy_rider911

Re: Racism at Barcelona F1 test

Quote:
Crash said:
... 1965 was a very different time and the US and the USSR were actually fighting to carve out their zones of influence. What the White house was afraid of was the entire region succumbing to a Communist onslaught, in case South Vietnam would fall. Seems naive today, but it was a very real concern back then.

Exactly right

The US Government at that time believed in the Domino Theory where they thought that if one country in Asia fell, they could all fall like dominoes to communism. Subsequent history has shown this theory to be wrong.

The US Government did not try to defend South Vietnam out of some unselfish, humanitarian motive of helping a weak nation. The US was in the middle of the Cold War fighting the USSR (and China) in different battlegrounds on the world map. I described this above as a "misdirected anti-Communist zealotry". That's precisely what it was. The US mistakenly thought it was legally entitled to fight wars wherever it chose to uphold democracy and resist the spread of communism using the legal figleaf of claiming that it was to defend US national security. That was a bogus argument which masked the real political wargame being played out on the world map by the 2 superpowers.

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Feb 15, 2008 11:19:48 AM

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2002; Reply to: easy_rider911

Re: Racism at Barcelona F1 test

Quote:
easy_rider911 said:
Quote:
Crash said:
... 1965 was a very different time and the US and the USSR were actually fighting to carve out their zones of influence. What the White house was afraid of was the entire region succumbing to a Communist onslaught, in case South Vietnam would fall. Seems naive today, but it was a very real concern back then.

Exactly right

The US Government at that time believed in the Domino Theory where they thought that if one country in Asia fell, they could all fall like dominoes to communism. Subsequent history has shown this theory to be wrong.

The US Government did not try to defend South Vietnam out of some unselfish, humanitarian motive of helping a weak nation. The US was in the middle of the Cold War fighting the USSR (and China) in different battlegrounds on the world map. I described this above as a "misdirected anti-Communist zealotry". That's precisely what it was. The US mistakenly thought it was legally entitled to fight wars wherever it chose to uphold democracy and resist the spread of communism using the legal figleaf of claiming that it was to defend US national security. That was a bogus argument which masked the real political wargame being played out on the world map by the 2 superpowers.

We're in perfect agreement here

.

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Feb 15, 2008 11:21:29 AM

easy_rider911: Rennteam VIP; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 22190, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 8, 2004; Reply to: zzboba

Re: Racism at Barcelona F1 test

Brilliant pic

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Feb 15, 2008 11:22:45 AM

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2002; Reply to: zzboba

Re: Racism at Barcelona F1 test

Quote:
zzboba said:
This is from sniffpetrol.com:

LOL

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Feb 15, 2008 11:29:06 AM

cgt: Co-Pilot; Loc: London; Posts: 243, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 24, 2004; Reply to: easy_rider911

Re: Racism at Barcelona F1 test

Crash, your statement that you dont care sums it all up really. I find you unreal. Obviously you have never been subjected to racism in your life.

Honestly if there are any moderators on this board I would suggest they look very carefully at your comments and views.

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Feb 15, 2008 11:36:48 AM

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2002; Reply to: cgt

Re: Racism at Barcelona F1 test

Quote:
cgt said:
Crash, your statement that you dont care sums it all up really. I find you unreal. Obviously you have never been subjected to racism in your life.

Honestly if there are any moderators on this board I would suggest they look very carefully at your comments and views.

Yes, I am unreal, because I don't react hysterically to the entire affair. I have never targeted anybody for their race, have never condoned anyone doing so and staunchly oppose racism. However, this situation is getting ridiculous and you are a large reason for this. The moderators are welcome to check all my posts and you are free to report any and all posts that may concern you to them, but I will not cry wolf where there is none just because you seem to think so. Grow up.

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Feb 15, 2008 11:54:43 AM

easy_rider911: Rennteam VIP; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 22190, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 8, 2004; Reply to: Crash

Re: Racism at Barcelona F1 test

Quote:
Crash said:
Quote:
easy_rider911 said:
Quote:
Crash said:
... 1965 was a very different time and the US and the USSR were actually fighting to carve out their zones of influence. What the White house was afraid of was the entire region succumbing to a Communist onslaught, in case South Vietnam would fall. Seems naive today, but it was a very real concern back then.

Exactly right

The US Government at that time believed in the Domino Theory where they thought that if one country in Asia fell, they could all fall like dominoes to communism. Subsequent history has shown this theory to be wrong.

The US Government did not try to defend South Vietnam out of some unselfish, humanitarian motive of helping a weak nation. The US was in the middle of the Cold War fighting the USSR (and China) in different battlegrounds on the world map. I described this above as a "misdirected anti-Communist zealotry". That's precisely what it was. The US mistakenly thought it was legally entitled to fight wars wherever it chose to uphold democracy and resist the spread of communism using the legal figleaf of claiming that it was to defend US national security. That was a bogus argument which masked the real political wargame being played out on the world map by the 2 superpowers.

We're in perfect agreement here .

Exactly, so this brings me back to the fact that McCain was in Vietnam when the US should not have been there. As such, his use of insulting names against the Vietnamese stems from his personal animosity to them due to their treatment of him rather than on the US cause in Vietnam being the right one. Hence his language was equally unacceptable to any equally insulting comments about a black man.

We have now come full circle

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Feb 15, 2008 12:01:42 PM

reginos: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Nicosia , Cyprus; Posts: 12130, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 20, 2005; Reply to: Crash

Re: Racism at Barcelona F1 test

Come on guys we don't live in an angelic world.Prejudice and discrimination is to varying degrees in all of us. If it stays "innocent" then there is no problem IMO. We shouldn't be carried away and consider a joke into a major act of racism.If say a group of black people masquerade as whites will I be offended? Of course not. If I dress as Chinese will any native of China be offended? I doubt it. You read too much into this Barcelona prank.I know some people don't like a man of african origin to be in F1. But in the same way they might not like one who is gay for example or is into scientology etc etc. So let the whole affair be forgotten and don't give political ramifications to it. It is not as if Hamilton was not allowed to race because of his colour or Dennis and Haug wouldn't allow father Anthony into the pits because he was not white

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Feb 15, 2008 12:22:47 PM

WAY: Rennteam Master; Loc: Melbourne, Australia; Posts: 3344, Gallery; Registered on: May 11, 2004; Reply to: Crash

Re: Racism at Barcelona F1 test

Wow guys, I know we are completely off topic, but I find this totally facinating! Being 32, I did not live through Vietnam, nor WW2 (obviously). And history isn't an area I am strong in. Thanks for the education!

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Feb 15, 2008 2:40:33 PM

JoeRockhead: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Topside , Monaco; Posts: 8033, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 17, 2007; Reply to: WAY

Re: Racism at Barcelona F1 test

How in this day and age do two black comedians get away with making a movie where they go undercover and dress up as 'White Chicks' and proceed to to try to act white? How is that any different than what Al Jolson did? Some may argue that it's even worse since society is supposedly more educated now. This is a pretty good example of what we call 'reverse racism' but for some sad reason it's accepted as being okay.

http://www.sonypictures.com/movies/whitechicks/site/

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Feb 15, 2008 3:21:22 PM

racerx: Rennteam VIP; Loc: 1985 porsche dealership , Bouvet Island; Posts: 8751, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 27, 2004; Reply to: Crash

Re: Racism at Barcelona F1 test

Quote:
Crash said:
Yep, that is all true. However, some argue that Hitler wouldn't even have bothered with Britain, had it not declared war on Germany (personally, I'm glad it did, but still ).

Vietnam doesn't bother me, really. 1965 was a very different time and the US and the USSR were actually fighting to carve out their zones of influence. What the White house was afraid of was the entire region succumbing to a Communist onslaught, in case South Vietnam would fall. Seems naive today, but it was a very real concern back then. That being said, the way their pioliticians waged that war was borderline criminal. Almost ten years of attrition, bombing and setting their forests on fire, only to delay the inevitable. When Johnson took the decision to go in, they should've been committed to a full-scale invasion, not pussyfooting all over the DMZ. It would've resulted in less both US and Vietnamese casualties and the conflict would've been over much sooner and I'm sure with much weaker public outrage.

I agree with this almost completely especially on the the way the war strategy was run. Had the US still had a ballsy General like Macarthur we would have won quickly.

However you are wrong on the domino theory. The commies were bent on world domination through armed conflict. They were everywhere and trying to expand.

To Easy;

Our reason for being there was a plea from the then president of S. Vietnam to lend assistance in the form of military advisors. This was in 1962. JFK sent them in. I have the LIFE magazines where they are pictured training and conducting missions.

As to biased TV coverage I am referring to live (in that day) coverage by the 3 news networks, journalists who reported what they saw. Much more graphic and more real than any coverage shown of Iraq. This live fire daily video was shown every night in the 60's.

There was no oil, no gold, no resources of any kind. Just a people being attacked by evil communists. To say what the US tried to do was a selfish exercise just shows your anti US bias, imo.

As to WW 11, did you ever hear of the lend lease program. FDR did everything he could for britain against germany, but knew he could not get congress to declare war, BECAUSE THE US DOES NOT LIKE WAR.

The US has had to be the world's policeman because no one else would or could. Without US action in this past century the world would be so different. Most of the map right now would be ruled from germania.

Our actions were only self-centered to the point of not wanting to be the only FREE ones left in a world dominated by either Nazi or Commie Totalitarians.

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Feb 15, 2008 3:28:24 PM

AUM: Veteran; Loc: Germany; Posts: 1203, Gallery; Registered on: May 2, 2006; Reply to: JoeRockhead

Re: Racism at Barcelona F1 test

Maybe the Spanish are still mad with England about losing the Armada in 1588?

http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/spanish_armada.htm

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Porsche	OFFICIAL: Cayman GT4 RS (2021)	5/12/23 12:11 PM W8MM	261180	288
Porsche	OFFICIAL: Porsche 911 (992) GT3 RS - 2022	3/12/24 8:28 AM DJM48	258081	323
Porsche	The new Macan: the first all-electric SUV from Porsche	1/30/24 9:18 AM RC	82707	45
Porsche	OFFICIAL: Taycan 2024 Facelift	3/15/24 1:23 PM CGX car nut	5331	50
Porsche	The moment I've been waiting for...	2/1/24 7:01 PM Pilot	877140	1364
Porsche	992 GT3	7/23/23 7:01 PM Grant	809292	3868
Porsche	Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!	2/10/24 4:43 PM nberry	388322	1526
Porsche	GT4RS	4/17/24 8:53 PM Gauss	386224	1452
Others	Tesla 2 the new thread	12/13/23 2:48 PM CGX car nut	369281	2401
Porsche	Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design	7/3/23 12:30 PM Porker	367059	797
Ferrari	Ferrari 812 Superfast	4/21/23 8:09 AM the-missile	290335	550
Porsche	Red Nipples 991.2 GT3 Touring on tour	4/11/24 12:32 PM Ferdie	286736	668
Porsche	Collected my 997 GTS today	10/19/23 7:06 PM CGX car nut	259341	812
Lambo	Huracán EVO STO	7/30/23 6:59 PM mcdelaug	237775	346
Lotus	Lotus Emira	6/25/23 2:53 PM Enmanuel	225840	101
Others	Corvette C8	10/16/23 3:24 PM Enmanuel	220300	488
Others	Gordon Murray - T.50	11/22/23 10:27 AM mcdelaug	167236	387
Porsche	Back to basics - 996 GT3 RS	6/11/23 5:13 PM CGX car nut	139159	144
BMW M	2024 BMW M3 CS Official Now	12/29/23 9:04 AM RC	115886	303
Motor Sp.	2023 Formula One	12/19/23 5:38 AM Whoopsy	107682	685
Others	Valkyrie final design?	4/28/23 2:45 AM Rossi	99361	219
Porsche	2022 992 Safari Model	3/7/24 4:22 PM Whoopsy	83672	239
AMG	Mercedes-Benz W124 500E aka Porsche typ 2758	2/23/24 10:03 PM blueflame	74914	297
Porsche	992 GT3 RS	3/3/24 7:22 PM Whoopsy	53268	314
Motor Sp.	Porsche 963	3/16/24 9:27 PM Whoopsy	24733	237
Ferrari	Ferrari 296 GTB (830PS, Hybrid V6)	1/21/24 4:29 PM GT-Boy	20977	103
BMW M	2022 BMW M5 CS	4/8/24 1:43 PM Ferdie	19247	140
AMG	G63 sold out	9/15/23 7:38 PM Nico997	16479	120

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