Crown
Board: Porsche - 911 - 997
Language: English
Region: Worldwide
Close
CloseForum - Thread
Re: 997 FACELIFT
Quote:
Lars997 said:
I would be very surprised to see a new dash. The cars Ive seen so far I never seen - at least on the top of the dash - any changes. Might be that they change the middle tunnel together with the new PCM.
New centre console could be possible, due to new navi system, but totally new dash is surely wishful thinking. Moreover I think the current isn't that bad that they really have to change it.
The big remaining question then is, will there be a PDK available from the very beginning of the facelift.
Jan 30, 2008 7:33:27 AM
- Atzporsche
- Rennteam VIP
-
- Loc: Vancouver , Canada
- Posts: 9118, Gallery
- Registered on: Feb 7, 2005
-
Reply to:
Lars997
Re: 997 FACELIFT
Quote:
Lars997 said:
Yepp Rossi... this PDK keeps to be the open question.
I more and more think we probably will see it in the next 911 generation 2011?
that would be bad news for porsches sales.. i think they really have no choice cause competition is coming.. believe me they are trying hardddd to get it in the facelift..
but then there's their marketing department who appears to have the upper hand
Re: 997 FACELIFT
Quote:
Rossi said:Quote:
Lars997 said:
I would be very surprised to see a new dash. The cars Ive seen so far I never seen - at least on the top of the dash - any changes. Might be that they change the middle tunnel together with the new PCM.
New centre console could be possible, due to new navi system, but totally new dash is surely wishful thinking. Moreover I think the current isn't that bad that they really have to change it.
The big remaining question then is, will there be a PDK available from the very beginning of the facelift.
FIAT/Alfa Romeo are working on a DSG system for 2009. If they also beat Porsche to this technology, well it will be the ultimate disgrace. VW-Audi-Nissan-BMW and now FIAT!!!
Porsche cannot afford to be without this system unless they have serious problems adapting it. Marketing IMO calls for it. It is the Technical people that are holding it back.
Jan 30, 2008 9:58:09 AM
- Turbo4ever
- Senior
-
- Loc: HK , Hong Kong
- Posts: 723, Gallery
- Registered on: Sep 13, 2007
- Reply to: Atzporsche
Jan 30, 2008 4:25:12 PM
- MMD
- Rennteam VIP
-
- Loc: usa
- Posts: 9652, Gallery
- Registered on: Dec 16, 2004
- Reply to: Turbo4ever
Re: 997 FACELIFT
Would be very smart ( read: "excellent") if the PCM got a touch screen and streamlined software.
They could get rid of the telephone keypad to the left of it and make the screen bigger.
Result: better user interface, fewer annoying buttons, sleeker look, easier to see.
Seems not so unreasonable because everybody knows the current version is _really_ non-excellent.
They could get rid of the telephone keypad to the left of it and make the screen bigger.
Result: better user interface, fewer annoying buttons, sleeker look, easier to see.
Seems not so unreasonable because everybody knows the current version is _really_ non-excellent.
Re: 997 FACELIFT
Quote:
reginos said:Quote:
Rossi said:Quote:
Lars997 said:
I would be very surprised to see a new dash. The cars Ive seen so far I never seen - at least on the top of the dash - any changes. Might be that they change the middle tunnel together with the new PCM.
New centre console could be possible, due to new navi system, but totally new dash is surely wishful thinking. Moreover I think the current isn't that bad that they really have to change it.
The big remaining question then is, will there be a PDK available from the very beginning of the facelift.
FIAT/Alfa Romeo are working on a DSG system for 2009. If they also beat Porsche to this technology, well it will be the ultimate disgrace. VW-Audi-Nissan-BMW and now FIAT!!!
Porsche cannot afford to be without this system unless they have serious problems adapting it. Marketing IMO calls for it. It is the Technical people that are holding it back.
Oerlikon , a swiss compagny, is also working , with an italien compagny, in the devopment of a DSG, . They say it will be for a sports car and unvield this fall .
PCM
It occurred to me while sitting 4 1/2 hours on the tarmac at San Francisco airport yesterday that Porsche might want to go in one of two directions:
- make all PCM's identical from Boxster to Panamera both front display panel and "back office"
- make the faceplate's different but use the same "back office" mechanics/electronics behind the panel
I've no idea which Porsche would be most likely to do, but it would explain the dash change.
- make all PCM's identical from Boxster to Panamera both front display panel and "back office"
- make the faceplate's different but use the same "back office" mechanics/electronics behind the panel
I've no idea which Porsche would be most likely to do, but it would explain the dash change.
Re: PCM
Quote:
Le Chef said:
It occurred to me while sitting 4 1/2 hours on the tarmac at San Francisco airport yesterday that Porsche might want to go in one of two directions:
LOL. Forgive me but that's funny! Why? because I've been stuck in the "same", shall we be polite and say "difficult," situation thinking about Porsches too.
Re: 997 FACELIFT
Quote:
MMD said:
Would be very smart ( read: "excellent") if the PCM got a touch screen and streamlined software.
Hmmm, while I find the twist knob entry required by the Porsche system, the touch screens have their drawbacks too IMHO. Mainly, the screen coating goes bad after awhile and the contacts behind the screen as well. Meaning you now have to press really hard sometimes to make your entries. And while we're at it, I wonder why they can't make the screens movable ala the rear view mirrors, so you could adjust the screen for easier viewing.
My.02
Feb 2, 2008 6:54:14 AM
- cookie monster
- Senior
-
- Loc: US , United States
- Posts: 564, Gallery
- Registered on: Dec 8, 2005
- Reply to: reginos
Re: 997 FACELIFT
Quote:
reginos said:Quote:
Rossi said:Quote:
Lars997 said:
I would be very surprised to see a new dash. The cars Ive seen so far I never seen - at least on the top of the dash - any changes. Might be that they change the middle tunnel together with the new PCM.
New centre console could be possible, due to new navi system, but totally new dash is surely wishful thinking. Moreover I think the current isn't that bad that they really have to change it.
The big remaining question then is, will there be a PDK available from the very beginning of the facelift.
FIAT/Alfa Romeo are working on a DSG system for 2009. If they also beat Porsche to this technology, well it will be the ultimate disgrace. VW-Audi-Nissan-BMW and now FIAT!!!
Porsche cannot afford to be without this system unless they have serious problems adapting it. Marketing IMO calls for it. It is the Technical people that are holding it back.
I don't know if it is technical or marketing people but not having this PDK feature is going to affect PAG's image a bit. Even if majority drives 6 speed, many will ask about this "ME TOO" solution. They will ask if Volvo has it, why doesn't Porsche offers this option. Make it optional just to make it "ME TOO"... unless the PDK has issues still not worked out regarding reliability. This puzzles me though... cos if the GTR can come out with it, why can't the Germans put this onto its lower HP's 997 base/S fleet? I mean the GTR's power is same as the TURBO. The Japs are known to take apart cars and examine them to details and I suspect they designed the GTR to kill the TURBO. PAG should have at least done something similar although one is FR and the other is RR. It will be yesterday's news is we wait till the 991 in 2011. Even BIMMER has DKG now. When we are still debating whether or not the GTR can beat the TURBO and if the experiment was done under controlled environment, the GTR already has a new V spec and there is no doubt that this is going to cut lap times more and destroy the flagship. PAG can't afford to wait anymore to defend its crown and the trump card will just have to be PDK.
Well I am more leaning towards thinking that PAG will surprise everyone on the upcoming Geneva motor show with PDK on 997. The fact that no mechanical updates been leaked on spy shots means that they want to keep this sealed and secretive and surprises the world with its marvel maybe?
Feb 3, 2008 11:20:02 PM
- SpeedYellow997S
- Newbie
-
- Loc: Los Angeles
- Posts: 7, Gallery
- Registered on: Jan 19, 2005
- Reply to: cookie monster
Feb 5, 2008 4:38:58 PM
- Dan L
- Expert
-
- Loc: Santa Barbara, CA , United States
- Posts: 1957, Gallery
- Registered on: Jan 2, 2006
- Reply to: SpeedYellow997S
Feb 5, 2008 4:55:57 PM
- SoCal Alan
- Rennteam VIP
-
- Loc: Orange County , United States
- Posts: 7268, Gallery
- Registered on: Mar 6, 2004
- Reply to: Dan L
Re: 997 FACELIFT
Quote:
Dan L said:
Guys,--the 998 is already designed. It's just well hidden inside the bowels of Weissach. (Just like the 997 was already designed before the 996 was released). Just be patient. From what I hear if you like the 997 you're going to love the 998!
Dan
All right. I'll bite. What did you hear?
998 = 2-901
Number sequence changes.
Car is an aluminum space-frame construction with key sub-structure components shared with next gen versions of Audi R8/Lamborghini Gallardo/Porsche 911/928/Panamera. Same kind of sub-structures Aston-Martin and Lotus use. Makes the car much, much lighter. Still lighter versions can be had but will cost significantly more.
Standard engines will be new lighter weight flat-6 with 3.6 liter low pressure turbos with variable everything, fuel cut-off, and running on any kind of bio fuel + gasoline. Power output 360 hp but with a much higher power to weight ratio (feels more like 400hp +) and much better fuel consumption.
And in case you wonder recreational chemicals may have been involved in this conjecture...
Car is an aluminum space-frame construction with key sub-structure components shared with next gen versions of Audi R8/Lamborghini Gallardo/Porsche 911/928/Panamera. Same kind of sub-structures Aston-Martin and Lotus use. Makes the car much, much lighter. Still lighter versions can be had but will cost significantly more.
Standard engines will be new lighter weight flat-6 with 3.6 liter low pressure turbos with variable everything, fuel cut-off, and running on any kind of bio fuel + gasoline. Power output 360 hp but with a much higher power to weight ratio (feels more like 400hp +) and much better fuel consumption.
And in case you wonder recreational chemicals may have been involved in this conjecture...
Feb 5, 2008 11:47:15 PM
- DRA
- Junior
-
- Loc: Melbourne , Australia
- Posts: 97, Gallery
- Registered on: Aug 18, 2003
- Reply to: SpeedYellow997S
Re: 997 FACELIFT
Huh? ZF is one of the biggest makers of super-smooth transmissions in the world - supplies everyone from Ford to BMW!
Getrag do a pretty good job too! I think you'll find a lot more of them in German cars than Japanese boxes. Even Aisin develops their transmissions in Germany for Porsche.
The previous generation GTR and Supra also used German gearboxes.
If I had to guess, the difficulty Porsche might be having with DSG is probably related to the torque of the turbo motors and maybe packaging.
Take the Veryon for example. Development was farmed out (to a British firm I believe) and they had the problems handling the enormous torque of the W16 quad turbo motor.
...Yes, the GT-R has it, but it's not a very refined unit - not really what Porsche customers would find acceptable.
Getrag do a pretty good job too! I think you'll find a lot more of them in German cars than Japanese boxes. Even Aisin develops their transmissions in Germany for Porsche.
The previous generation GTR and Supra also used German gearboxes.
If I had to guess, the difficulty Porsche might be having with DSG is probably related to the torque of the turbo motors and maybe packaging.
Take the Veryon for example. Development was farmed out (to a British firm I believe) and they had the problems handling the enormous torque of the W16 quad turbo motor.
...Yes, the GT-R has it, but it's not a very refined unit - not really what Porsche customers would find acceptable.
Quote:
SpeedYellow997S said:
FYI a lot of auto gear boxes in German cars are actually made in Japan. Nissan and Toyota has a lot of influence and as you can see, LS460 their 8 speed before MB and Nissan is getting what's on the GTR before PAG and BMW.
Feb 6, 2008 6:46:13 PM
- Atzporsche
- Rennteam VIP
-
- Loc: Vancouver , Canada
- Posts: 9118, Gallery
- Registered on: Feb 7, 2005
- Reply to: Nico997
Feb 6, 2008 9:56:56 PM
- Atzporsche
- Rennteam VIP
-
- Loc: Vancouver , Canada
- Posts: 9118, Gallery
- Registered on: Feb 7, 2005
- Reply to: Atzporsche
Re: 997 FACELIFT
have i mentioned the fact the the new RS6 LED lights look A LOT like the ones testing on our camoed 997 facelifts!
just putting it out there.. cause they'll probably look very similar.. the Audi even has the little pointless dip below the LED unit, which it does not follow. The LED units seem to be like a square consisting of two horizontal rows light lights....
my $.02
just putting it out there.. cause they'll probably look very similar.. the Audi even has the little pointless dip below the LED unit, which it does not follow. The LED units seem to be like a square consisting of two horizontal rows light lights....
my $.02
Re: 997 FACELIFT
Quote:
uzj100 said:Quote:
MMD said:
Would be very smart ( read: "excellent") if the PCM got a touch screen and streamlined software.
Hmmm, while I find the twist knob entry required by the Porsche system, the touch screens have their drawbacks too IMHO.
Oh..., wait..., what are those buttons called..., "soft buttons?"
You have three or four buttons on the side and their functions change depending on what you are doing. Their function is labled by being next to screen.
I dunno.
Gotta have fewer buttons. Current version looks too functional, like a cop-car.
Re: 997 FACELIFT
Quote:
DRA said:
...Yes, the GT-R has it, but it's not a very refined unit - not really what Porsche customers would find acceptable.
BMW released their 7-speed DSG as well. I think it will live up to the expectations. How do you know GT-R's DSG is not refined?
Given the fact that Porsche still sells many Tip cars (what a shame on Porsche and what a dumbass I am for owning one),given the fact that they already sold more than 100000 997 variants, they do not give a [beep]. UPCOMING PDK, bluetooth, you can name many many more. Same old story.... Blah blah
Sorry I am just sick of the Porsche knows the best, does the best comments. They are a business and a goddamn profitable one to buy more & more shares of VW group. I would not change a damn thing if I was sure that I could sell anything to my royal customers as long as I brand it Porsche.
Feb 7, 2008 11:37:38 AM
- easy_rider911
- Rennteam VIP
-
- Loc: London , United Kingdom
- Posts: 22190, Gallery
- Registered on: Nov 8, 2004
- Reply to: Queram
Re: 997 FACELIFT
Agree totally I feel very, very disappointed that Porsche doesn't offer so many of the latest in-car technology when they can afford to develop it:
PDK
Bluetooth (to allow an existing mobile phone to work with car speakers and microphone)
Satellite radio
USB/firewire sockets
MOST iPod input
Better satelllite navigation that allows new information to be downloaded to the PCM and proper post code/zip code address input
But sadly, they care about their profits more than anything else.
I feel very, very disappointed that Porsche doesn't offer so many of the latest in-car technology when they can afford to develop it:PDK
Bluetooth (to allow an existing mobile phone to work with car speakers and microphone)
Satellite radio
USB/firewire sockets
MOST iPod input
Better satelllite navigation that allows new information to be downloaded to the PCM and proper post code/zip code address input
But sadly, they care about their profits more than anything else.
Feb 7, 2008 10:46:46 PM
- MJSpeed
- Junior
-
- Loc: South Florida , United States
- Posts: 80, Gallery
- Registered on: Mar 31, 2003
- Reply to: easy_rider911
Re: 997 FACELIFT
I don't know why everyone is so amazed that Porsche doesn't offer the latest "in-car technology" in their cars after all the cup-holder wasn't even introduced until the mid-late 1990's...a cup-holder!
Clearly by the post on this and most other Porsche forums, one can deduce that the Porsche client today is very different than the Porsche client of the past...
As for me take all your gadgets/technology elsewhere...but please make the damn cars lighter!!
Clearly by the post on this and most other Porsche forums, one can deduce that the Porsche client today is very different than the Porsche client of the past...
As for me take all your gadgets/technology elsewhere...but please make the damn cars lighter!!
Feb 8, 2008 1:32:31 AM
- Atzporsche
- Rennteam VIP
-
- Loc: Vancouver , Canada
- Posts: 9118, Gallery
- Registered on: Feb 7, 2005
- Reply to: Pentium
Re: 997 FACELIFT
Quote:
Pentium said:
I agree! Make the damn cars 100kg lighter and keep the existing power. Or at least offer the choice!!!
exactly where's the watered down CS version from back in the day
its not the GT3/GT3RS because they're even more. Im talking carrera lightweight without all these electronics and options.
Re: 997 FACELIFT
Quote:
MJSpeed said:
I don't know why everyone is so amazed that Porsche doesn't offer the latest "in-car technology" in their cars after all the cup-holder wasn't even introduced until the mid-late 1990's...a cup-holder!
Clearly by the post on this and most other Porsche forums, one can deduce that the Porsche client today is very different than the Porsche client of the past...
As for me take all your gadgets/technology elsewhere...but please make the damn cars lighter!!
You are just looking it from a view of a Porsche fanatic. If you want a lightweight champion GT3 is a far better option and you should not complain about the price since you are buying the cheapest of everything in the world. (My C4S costs 3 times the price of the GT3 in the US)
I am not sure if I can explain since English is not my native language but here it is.
Porsche already offers a phone module. Why not make it a bluetooth.
You offer a sports car range. Why not give a sequential or DSG type of transmission the 911 and CAyman/Boxter line deserves. You already have the stone age tiptronic. Competition is alredy on 2nd 3rd generations.
The list can go like this but the point is that greedy money making is easy when there are brand followers that are loyal to the point of blindness. I even thought about being a sponsor to this forum and sell canned [beep] as long as I can pull a deal with Porsche to use the brand name. I bet I'll make alot of money. Sorry if the example is a little extreme and disgusting.
Yes I am not an only Porsche fan, I am an car enthusiast and I will cross shop when I see something that I like better. I like many defferent things and will give my personal opinion on things that I don't like. You may not like it but hey it is Porsche that manufactured massly and made die hard Porsche fans a minority in the customer profile.
Peace.
Forum
About Rennteam | Help | Terms of use | Privacy Policy | Support | Contact | Imprint | Archive
Powered by
Community
and
