Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: Carrera S depreciation woes. - Page2

Jan 28, 2008 2:36:35 PM

JoeRockhead: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Topside , Monaco; Posts: 8033, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 17, 2007; Reply to: Mike S

Re: Carrera S depreciation woes.

Quote:
Mike S said:
Quote:
cibergypsy said:
Just found out from a reputable Porsche dealer that my $122k 2006 Carrera S purchased in March of 2006 is now worth $75-80k RETAIL! I have X51 and Aerokit on it plus a miriad other options which made it jump to $122k two years ago. It only has 14,900 miles as of now! To lose $40-50k in two years... I should have waited and bought the Turbo or GT3 but, of course, me the impatient one, couldn't wait a year not driving a new Porsche 911 even though I had an '87 Carrera to comfort me in the meantime.

Thats not bad at all considering the mileage you have on your car. I lost $50,000 on my SL65AMG in 7 months of ownership and only 2000 miles.

There was a 2002 GT2 in a dealership here that had 1400km on it. It had full carbon fibre and was in mint condition. The dealer was asking $149K for it, so they probably gave the original owner 15% less than that, so probably $126,500. At an original price of $270K, that car cost the owner $102.50 per kilometer to own. That's gotta be some kind of record!

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Jan 28, 2008 3:51:17 PM

Mid-Life Fun: Newbie; Loc: Kentucky , United States; Posts: 43, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 25, 2006; Reply to: SrfCity

Re: Carrera S depreciation woes.

One of my stock portfolios was worth $100K in October, but is now in the high $70's. I gurantee you that I've had more fun owning the car, than the portfolio. It's not about the money...just the fun.

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Jan 28, 2008 8:00:01 PM

Jim48: Senior; Loc: Virginia, USA; Posts: 639, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 24, 2005; Reply to: 911Dave

Re: Carrera S depreciation woes.

That's one of the reasons I ordered mine with only a few (what I thought were necessary) options. Still, it dropped about $14K the first year.

The only compensation for me is that it reduces the retail value, which is used as a basis for the personal property tax I get the "privilege" of paying every year!!!!!!!!

Jim

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Jan 28, 2008 8:05:50 PM

Jim48: Senior; Loc: Virginia, USA; Posts: 639, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 24, 2005; Reply to: ADias

Re: Carrera S depreciation woes.

Quote:
ADias said:
A 911 buyer will fit in one of these (in all I assume money is not an issue just different perspectives about it):

1 - You want a new 911 and respect the value of money, and plan to enjoy the car a long time (10 years or more). Buy new.

2 - You respect the value of money but you want to trade every 5 years or less - buy used and do not overpay for nonsense options.

3 - You have no respect for money: Buy a new one every year.

Superb advice. A friend who has bought, sold, and raced Porsche's for years (on average, keeps them 2-3 years) usually buys used ones from private parties and gets the Porsche 100 point inspection so he knows what needs to be done and then negotiates with them. He bought and raced a used GT3 (year 2004 or 2005) for several years before reselling it recently for a Boxster, as he wanted to be able to drive one to work most of the time. I suspect he didn't get a new one, unless he leased it, as he doesn't like losing money on the depreciation.

For me, I intend to keep the car a long time so I bought it new.

Jim

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Jan 28, 2008 8:20:36 PM

ResB: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Yorkshire, where roads are twisty... , United Kingdom; Posts: 2858, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 19, 2006; Reply to: Jim48

Re: Carrera S depreciation woes.

I bought new and intended keeping it for a long time. The problem, is new ones keep coming out.

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Jan 28, 2008 8:21:51 PM

Leawood911: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Kansas, USA , United States; Posts: 6924, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 29, 2006; Reply to: Jim48

Re: Carrera S depreciation woes.

I have never bought a new Porsche - and I have never had a Porsche payment, I also own my house w/o payment - buying new would be very much against my love of money. I have owned used 911s for over 28 years continuously - now on my 7th 911. I generally never lose more than 10% after driving at least 30-40K miles. My 997S Launch car ($100K new) cost me about $60K including my 996 trade (love ebay dealers in TX). After two years and almost 20K miles is is still worth around $55K. I will sell it this summer before the warranty runs out for at least that much.
Ownership can be very reasonable and FUN if you don't buy new.

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Jan 28, 2008 10:48:28 PM

Dan L: Expert; Loc: Santa Barbara, CA , United States; Posts: 1957, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 2, 2006; Reply to: Leawood911

Re: Carrera S depreciation woes.

Who cares? It's only money. What you do have is many hours of enjoyable driving. Priceless.

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Jan 28, 2008 11:54:22 PM

Porky Tokyo: Senior; Loc: Tokyo, Japan; Posts: 617, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 8, 2005; Reply to: Moogle

Re: Carrera S depreciation woes.

Quote:
Moogle said:
The lowest depreciating cars will always be the Turbo/GT2/3

Mileage plays a large role also.

Depends where you are. I know someone who got a 997 Turbo last year for $250,000 here in Tokyo. He sold it last week to the dealer for $185,000!!!

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Jan 29, 2008 11:28:42 AM

easy_rider911: Rennteam VIP; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 22190, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 8, 2004; Reply to: Porky Tokyo

Re: Carrera S depreciation woes.

My own information about the London market is that GT3s hold their value but TTs don't. Nowadays, they depreciate like Carreras...

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Jan 29, 2008 12:54:45 PM

EricAlain: Veteran; Loc: Paris, France , France; Posts: 1037, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 14, 2002; Reply to: easy_rider911

Re: Carrera S depreciation woes.

I guess part of the answer is the following:
Fiscal Year 06/07: Unit sales
Turbo Coupe: 7,777 (in FY 05/06 1,517 units)
Turbo Cab: 126

GT3: 2,218 (FY 05/06 GT3+GT3 RS: 100)
GT3 RS 1,011
GT3 RSR: 37
GT3 Cup: 230

Keep in mind that when the 996 TT was launched, sales "only" reached 5,737 units.

Bottom line, since the lauch of the 2 models, the TT outsells the GT3 by 4 to 1 .... hence a greater hit on resale values.

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Jan 29, 2008 3:22:19 PM

Ronnie: Co-Pilot; Loc: good old England (sometimes Hong Kong); Posts: 206, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 13, 2005; Reply to: Moogle

Re: Carrera S depreciation woes.

Quote:
Moogle said:
The lowest depreciating cars will always be the Turbo/GT2/3

Mileage plays a large role also.

Got to disagree. The GT2 takes huge hits (undeservedly imho).

The 997TT is starting to depreciate more than previous models.

So far the latest GT3 is holding out, but not by much.

As previously mentioned. Porsche is no longer a bullet proof marque.

To be fair, apart from 8 cylinder, the latest model, and special edition Ferraris, not many cars are nowadays.

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Jan 29, 2008 4:31:12 PM

nberry: Rennteam VIP; Loc: La Jolla, USA , United States; Posts: 13737, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: Dan L

Re: Carrera S depreciation woes.

Quote:
Dan L said:
Who cares? It's only money. What you do have is many hours of enjoyable driving. Priceless.

Dan, Porsche executives LOVE you!

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Jan 29, 2008 4:35:08 PM

Turbo4ever: Senior; Loc: HK , Hong Kong; Posts: 723, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 13, 2007; Reply to: cibergypsy

Re: Carrera S depreciation woes.

Quote:
cibergypsy said:
Just found out from a reputable Porsche dealer that my $122k 2006 Carrera S purchased in March of 2006 is now worth $75-80k RETAIL! I have X51 and Aerokit on it plus a miriad other options which made it jump to $122k two years ago. It only has 14,900 miles as of now! To lose $40-50k in two years... I should have waited and bought the Turbo or GT3 but, of course, me the impatient one, couldn't wait a year not driving a new Porsche 911 even though I had an '87 Carrera to comfort me in the meantime.

A few months later, that will be even worst, including the GT series.

Just enjoy the car!

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Jan 29, 2008 4:42:57 PM

Grant: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Denver, CO , United States; Posts: 12586, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2002; Reply to: Moogle

Re: Carrera S depreciation woes.

Quote:
Moogle said:
The lowest depreciating cars will always be the Turbo/GT2/3

Mileage plays a large role also.

And of those, the GT3 will always be the best buy...

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Jan 29, 2008 5:25:46 PM

enfield: Newbie; Loc: Ontario, Canada; Posts: 9, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 6, 2008; Reply to: Grant

Re: Carrera S depreciation woes.

Not a Porsche owner yet - but I am planning on loosing lots of electrons due to my 'habit'. At the end of the day you cannot take the electrons in your bank account with you when you 'leave'. The electrons are not really real according to Quantum Mechanics because sometimes they are particles and sometimes wavelengths

So - I invest in fun in addition to 'conventional' investments such as land and gold. As long as you have balance in the different investments I am sure you will come out ahead.

I am thinking of getting a 997 C4S on lease (makes business sense i.e. partial write-off). I can imagine 'wasting' lots of money in the process - but what the hell!! It's an investment in fun

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Jan 29, 2008 5:43:18 PM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: enfield

Re: Carrera S depreciation woes.

Quote:
enfield said:

I am thinking of getting a 997 C4S on lease (makes business sense i.e. partial write-off). I can imagine 'wasting' lots of money in the process - but what the hell!! It's an investment in fun

Yeah! Fancy, expensive performance cars! Like going to Las Vegas. Gotta do it at least once after you come to the reasoned conclusion that you can afford it.

Can't figure out though: do I "respect" money or disrespect money by going to LV?

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Jan 29, 2008 6:32:59 PM

enfield: Newbie; Loc: Ontario, Canada; Posts: 9, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 6, 2008; Reply to: MMD

Re: Carrera S depreciation woes.

One should respect money somewhat. I would choose the middle path between "respect" of and "disrespect" of money....

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Feb 1, 2008 7:02:30 AM

mvn1971: Senior; Loc: HB, California, USA; Posts: 658, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 9, 2006; Reply to: enfield

Re: Carrera S depreciation woes.

Sometimes you gotta say "what the hell." If you work hard, treat yourself. Just don't treat yourself too much.

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Feb 1, 2008 3:16:08 PM

surfer_dude: Newbie; Loc: Virginia, USA; Posts: 9, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 31, 2008; Reply to: mvn1971

Re: Carrera S depreciation woes.

Don't kid yourself, it is not an investment, at least not a one likely to produce a positive financial return. It is a lot of fun though.

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Feb 1, 2008 4:24:33 PM

CS: Co-Pilot; Loc: LA; Posts: 180, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 6, 2005; Reply to: surfer_dude

Re: Carrera S depreciation woes.

Yea, saw a CLK 63 AMG, 5k miles, selling for 65k. Cost 95k+ brand new, less than 1 year.

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Feb 1, 2008 5:15:03 PM

edz: Rennteam Pro; Loc: South Orange County; Posts: 2022, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 11, 2005; Reply to: MMD

Re: Carrera S depreciation woes.

Quote:
MMD said:
Didn't want to say this but trading my 997S in for the TT made me realize that the TT has the HP/Tq Carreras should have for _road_ cars. Was worth the lo$$. Just bite the bullet and get the hotter car.

Note: not trying to be an ahole here just telling y'all what I "learned" the hard way.

My sentiments exactly. I love my TT but when I think about my C2S I still miss it.

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Feb 1, 2008 10:04:58 PM

SrfCity: Expert; Loc: Orange County, CA; Posts: 1339, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 21, 2004; Reply to: mvn1971

Re: Carrera S depreciation woes.

Quote:
mvn1971 said:
Sometimes you gotta say "what the hell." If you work hard, treat yourself. Just don't treat yourself too much.

Personally I'd stay away from the new, regular 911's in future. IMO the hit is just too big and there are other options out there to lessen the blow.

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Feb 1, 2008 10:46:05 PM

Roland997: Newbie; Loc: Seattle, WA; Posts: 26, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 5, 2007; Reply to: MMD

Re: Carrera S depreciation woes.

Regarding the X51 comment, it's a "money is no object" option IMO. I was recently looking at the values of 996TTs and there's very little price delta between cars with and without X51. It crazy -- to me -- that someone could pay an extra $20k for an option that adds virtually no value to the car a few years down the road.

As for 997 C2S w/ X51, get the GT3 even if it means having to find a lightly used GT3. Price ends up being about the same and you get the exclusivity of a GT3, much stouter engine and gearbox, and much better resalve value.

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Feb 2, 2008 1:05:53 AM

dkreidel: Co-Pilot; Loc: SoCal USA , United States; Posts: 167, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 10, 2006; Reply to: Roland997

Re: Carrera S depreciation woes.

I just sold my 2006 C2S (7,500 miles and a $101K MSRP) and bought an 08 TT - and suffered a bit more than you will. I can't think about it, 'cuz the TT is sooo fun!!!

Dick

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