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    19-dic-2007 17:43:31

    easy_rider911
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    Reply to: awai08

    Re: To PASM or Not to PASM

    I'm 100% certain you can find the -20mm sports suspension on the UK and Spanish Car Configurators. It's option code P17 but it's only available for C2, C4 (both as a cost option) and C2S, C4S (both as a no-cost option) PROVIDED THAT you order a manual car, a coupe (not a cab) and 19 inch wheels. Those 3 are pre-requisites. -20mm is also not available on the Targa models.

    19-dic-2007 19:55:27

    dreamcar
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    Reply to: awai08

    Re: To PASM or Not to PASM

    Quote:
    awai08 said:
    Hey -I just checked Porsche's car configurator in both the UK and Spain; I can't find the sports suspension as an option for either the 997s or GT3. In fact, PASM also is not listed as an option for the Boxster S on these sites. What am I missing?




    They are both on the UK car configurator. Look at "Options" and category "Engine" for both PASM (Boxster S) and sport suspension (997 S).

    19-dic-2007 21:47:49

    awai08
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    Reply to: dreamcar

    Re: To PASM or Not to PASM

    Ah, I see them now. Thanks.

    So is the fact that the sport suspension is offered only on coupes based on anticipated target audience (marketing), or one based on inherent structural differences between coupe and convertible (engineering)? Weekend track racers choose coupes; folks looking for added fun choose convertibles. At the same time, I'm guessing that the stiffer the suspension on a convertible (and coupe also, but still more so on a convertible), the more noticable will be any chassis flex?

    I'm curious as to how the -20mm suspension rides in real world settings. Less travel usually means stiffer and less comfort, although past experience suggests that perceived comfort depends on many additional factors such as spring rate progression. Years ago, I had an Acura Integra coupe, a good handling car for its class. When I swapped out the OE stock struts for Koni yellow (adjustable) struts and progressive springs that lowered ride height by 3cm (1.3 inches), I found that *both* handling and comfort improved. That said, can the -20mm suspension accomplish the same feat in a similar manner? Let's just say that the benchmark for "comfortable" is whether or not the girlfriend or wife can tolerate the passenger seat for short trips.

    19-dic-2007 21:57:14

    awai08
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    Reply to: awai08

    Re: To PASM or Not to PASM

    Oh -one other question. As some folks in this thread have suggested that PASM in sport mode is way too uncomfortable for normal driving, would any of you find beneficial if Porsche offered *three* settings with its PASM, say "sport," "normal," and "comfort?" Would such an offering be overkill or just right?

    20-dic-2007 0:09:37

    vincesf
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    Reply to: awai08

    Re: To PASM or Not to PASM

    I don't believe it would be overkill, as choice is a good thing, but I am one of the very few who like PASM in the Sport mode. I generally ride in the regular mode, but have become accustomed to enjoy the Sport mode more and more.
    vincesf

    20-dic-2007 11:50:29

    percymon
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    Reply to: vincesf

    Re: To PASM or Not to PASM

    Don't lose sight of the fact that PASM isn't just two modes - here are a number on stages in each switch setting - i can't remember the exact settings but soemthing like 4 settings within sport and 5 in normal - all controlled by the ecu based on speed , steering angle, and feedback from the dampers on the roughness of the road.

    20-dic-2007 12:12:17

    Porsche-Jeck
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    Reply to: percymon

    Re: To PASM or Not to PASM

    That's right, percymon Though it's software controlled PASM is not a digital thing
    This graph may help to illustrate how it works (it refers to the 997, but of course the logic is similar in a 987)

    20-dic-2007 14:33:07

    easy_rider911
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    Reply to: Porsche-Jeck

    Re: To PASM or Not to PASM

    You may find these links on -20mm sports suspension interesting:

    1) A thread I started when I was first trying to decide which suspension set up to choose:

    http://www.rennteam.com/showflat.php?Cat...&PHPSESSID=

    2) A thread describing what it was like to try -20mm as a passenger for the first time:

    http://www.rennteam.com/showflat.php?Cat...&PHPSESSID=

    3) Some analysis of the 997 suspension graph posted above by Porsche-Jeck:

    http://www.rennteam.com/showflat.php?Cat...&PHPSESSID=

    4) My reaction when test driving a PASM equipped C2S after owning a -20mm C2S for many months:

    http://www.rennteam.com/showflat.php?Cat...&PHPSESSID=

    22-dic-2007 21:43:37

    awai08
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    Reply to: easy_rider911

    Re: To PASM or Not to PASM

    Thanks for the links and graph! Took me a while to read it all, but I'm glad to get up to speed on the great debate; the threads discuss almost all of the competing arguments I've been throwing back and forth. The graph speaks a thousand words. ...The result? Now I'm *really* anticipating delivery of my car! PASM or no PASM, I just wanna drive it!

    I was going to mention that maybe what PASM needs is an infinitely adjustable "manual" mode that first allows the driver to choose the center dampening point (kind of like a volume knob on a stereo), about which the computer can actively tweak the dampening. Then if desired, the active tweaking can be turned on and off, such that the system effectively becomes an adjustable strut system with remote access (and while I'm at it, maybe the front and rear dampening can be decoupled for understeer/oversteer). All the above said, and after reading the other threads, I do think such a system still would be a mild compromise so long as the other suspension components (e.g. springs, differential, sway bars) stay constant.

    27-dic-2007 20:38:14

    Leawood911
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    Reply to: easy_rider911

    Re: To PASM or Not to PASM

    Quote:
    easy_rider911 said:
    After I had driven my -20mm sports suspension Carrera S for many months, when I test drove a PASM Carrera S, I found the steering feel was so numb and lifeless BUT it all comes down to what you have become accustomed to.

    The problem with just fitting the parts (physically) is that your car will still think (electronically) that it has PASM fitted. How would you un-do that?? It's more trouble than it's worth.

    IMO, either you import a non-US -20mm sports suspension car or just get a GT3!!



    Easy - It is simple to bolt on some new shocks (PSS9 non PASM for instance) to lower the car, install a Quaife LSD all for about US$4500+-. I have been pricing this for my car. In my case I am not happy with PASM because it appears the suspension is sagging on one side or not reacting evenly. In normal mode my car pulls slighly to the left, in sport mode it tracks straight leading me to believe the shocks are not responding 'evenly' to the computer commands - at least in normal mode - perhaps an early indication of what time and miles do to PASM. At any rate, I am also seeing if Porsche can spot anything wrong to give them the benefit of my 46K miles. (I wonder what the odds are that they will switch me over to 20mm under warranty - not)

    Once the standard (non-PASM) shocks are mounted it is possible to initialize the computer and tell it PASM is not installed (i.e. 20mm) and there will be no computer faults. Just leave the wires that run to the pasm shocks for future installation.
    For me PASM is a not something I would want on a 911. Even the Vettes magnetic system sounds better. I bet the next 911 PASM system will be of this type.
    On a related note - I asked Duram at Durametric software to build a variable controller (potentiometer of sorts) for PASM cars so that more control could be gained. If more express interest he may build it.
    Cheers

    Certainly I would hate to pay NON US prices if I can just bolt on an LSD and some shocks. For the money saved one could add some real headers, mufflers, chip tuning, etc.

    27-dic-2007 21:55:06

    easy_rider911
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    Reply to: Leawood911

    Re: To PASM or Not to PASM

    That definitely sounds like a plan! I'm curious to discover how it turns out
     
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