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    Re: Resale value rankings.

    Quote:
    Dr. Phil said:
    Quote:
    SoCal Alan said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Porsches are the Lexus in the sport car field. Well built, reliable and good value. Nothing to be ashamed about.



    That's the best compliment towards Porsche that I've heard from you in a long time, Nick.



    I believe comparing a Porsche to a Lexus is called "sarcasm", Alan. Not a compliment.



    Joakim, all the years we have been posting on this site, the thought or even the hint that a Porsche may be a "middle class" car has really upset you. Normally you are engaging, witty and humerous. Why the hostility and defensiveness.?

    We are only talking about a car, not your family, business or job. Keep your priorities straight.

    Re: Resale value rankings.

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Quote:
    Dr. Phil said:
    Quote:
    SoCal Alan said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Porsches are the Lexus in the sport car field. Well built, reliable and good value. Nothing to be ashamed about.



    That's the best compliment towards Porsche that I've heard from you in a long time, Nick.



    I believe comparing a Porsche to a Lexus is called "sarcasm", Alan. Not a compliment.



    Joakim, all the years we have been posting on this site, the thought or even the hint that a Porsche may be a "middle class" car has really upset you. Normally you are engaging, witty and humerous. Why the hostility and defensiveness.?

    We are only talking about a car, not your family, business or job. Keep your priorities straight.



    Nice job on my first name, Nick.
    I believe that pretty much proves my point.

    And yes, you actually ARE talking about people's businesses and jobs.
    I dunno how YOU make your money, but I do know that I have worked my ass off to afford my car, (which here in Denmark coincidentally costs 50 % more than your Ferrari did) - and I am sure a lot of the other guys in here did the same. So for you to continue to disrespect the car we have chosen to work hard to afford is EXACTLY the same as criticizing a lot more than just our car.

    Either you simply dont get this - or you do get this, but dont care.
    Either way it's getting old, worn and I would think if you really are successful attorney, you would have a lot more to offer us than dissing the carmake that to many people is their dreamcar - just like I'm sure you'd get annoyed if people questioned the very fabric of your moral as a lawyer.

    Re: Resale value rankings.


    Re: Resale value rankings.

    Quote:
    Crash said:




    Funny, that troll is actually a danish design! LOL!

    Re: Resale value rankings.

    Quote:
    Dr. Phil said:
    Quote:
    Crash said:




    Funny, that troll is actually a danish design! LOL!



    I never realized I could be so appropriate .

    Re: Resale value rankings.

    Quote:
    Crash said:
    [I never realized I could be so appropriate .



    Hehehe...a hidden talent perhaps?

    Re: Resale value rankings.

    If I missed your name, I apologize.

    If calling a car Middle Class is disrespectful, then God help as all. Your right I don't get it because at the end of the day I view these toys as nothing more than expendables. The are to be use, abused and recycled.

    They do not define me nor do they lessen me. If in your mind they do, then you need to step out and learn more about yourself. I drive a very middle class/main stream car, the Mini, I couldn't be more proud.

    Re: Resale value rankings.

    Quote:
    Dr. Phil said:
    Quote:
    SoCal Alan said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Porsches are the Lexus in the sport car field. Well built, reliable and good value. Nothing to be ashamed about.



    That's the best compliment towards Porsche that I've heard from you in a long time, Nick.



    I believe comparing a Porsche to a Lexus is called "sarcasm", Alan. Not a compliment.



    That's not the way I received it. Lexus is well respected here in California. It represents great value and a high quality product, higher than any other manufacturer for the money. And I understand the intent may have been sarcasm, but again, I will take it in a positive way. And I was being a little sarcastic myself.

    Re: Resale value rankings.

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Quote:
    Whoopsy said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Kelly Blue Book says the five brands with the best overall predicted resale values after 5 years are

    1. VW 48.1%
    2. BMW 45.6
    3. Acura 45.4
    4. Honda 45.2
    5. Porsche 44.9

    The survey excludes low-volume models and most vehicles with sticker prices above $60,000.

    Does anyone doubt that Porsche is a middle class car?



    And you are a lawyer? How did you come to the conclusion that Porsche is middle class cars from that list?

    For under $60k the only Porsche one can buy are Boxsters and Caymans and the Cayennes and that does not includes the upper ranges of those models, even the entry level ones have to be lightly equipped to be included, all models 911s are excluded.

    Only conclusion I can see from the list is that the Boxsters and Caymans keep their value pretty good.

    VW's entire model ranges are good on value, which is actually a surprise to me, same for Acura and Hondas but that's not a big surprise, the BMWs that can be counted are the Z4s and 3 series and since the 3s have always been regarded as a best in class car and are in great demand over the years the resale value is not a surrpise either.

    A simple objection from a junior legal aid can throw your point of view out the court window Come on Nick, I know you can do better than that, gives us a better argument.



    Read carefully my post. It indicates it "excludes low volume models" WHICH PORSCHE IS NOT and "MOST" vehicles with sticker price above $60,000. I do not believe Porsche was excluded because most of their cars are stickered above $60,000.

    Porsches are the Lexus in the sport car field. Well built, reliable and good value. Nothing to be ashamed about.



    I did read carefully, the way I interpret your statement is:

    Low volume models are excluded -> All Ferraris, Lambos, Maserati, Rolls, Bentleys, etc. depends on how one classify models, all the 911 variations could be all separate models, GT2 is low volume, GT3 is low, GT3RS is low, and depending on their cut off number, Turbo is also low, in fact, I thin k Porsche sells about the same or slightly more Turbos than Ferrari with 430s. So the only Porsche that are NOT low volume is the Boxsters, Caymans and Cayennes.

    Most models over $60k -> all 911 Variants are over $60k so they are automatically excluded. Didn't say which models ARE included

    1 + 1 = 2, so the survey is only valid for Porsche's low end models, the Boxsters and Caymans.

    What else is there to be read? Did you post more alphabets in white color so I missed those?

    You sure about the Lexus comparison? A lot of members here will disagree with the well build part, the reliable part and the good value part.

    I actually thinks your 430 IS the Lexus of Ferrari, well build compared with just about any other Ferrari models, much more reliable than any other Ferrari models and definitely MUCH better value than the V12 models. Nothing to be ashamed of being compared with Lexus, nice Lexus Ferrari you got there Nick

    Re: Resale value rankings.

    If someone told me that Ferrari was the Lexus of the luxury sport car field I would jump with joy. Sadly, it is not.

    Re: Resale value rankings.

    hehe, I didn't say Ferrari is the Lexus of the sport car field, I just say the 430 is the Lexus in the Ferrari stable

    Re: Resale value rankings.

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    If I missed your name, I apologize.

    If calling a car Middle Class is disrespectful, then God help as all. Your right I don't get it because at the end of the day I view these toys as nothing more than expendables. The are to be use, abused and recycled.

    They do not define me nor do they lessen me. If in your mind they do, then you need to step out and learn more about yourself. I drive a very middle class/main stream car, the Mini, I couldn't be more proud.



    It's not about calling Porsche a middle class car. It may well be to some.
    It's about your ongoing attitude to other people. There is no point in your posts, no will to make a difference. You dont want people to contact Porsche and change the things you complain about. You just want to [beep] people off.
    But of course, you already know this.

    Apart from this, I think you just managed to disavow everything you normally represent.

    1) "I view these toys as nothing more than expendables. The are to be use, abused and recycled."
    Sure, which is why you own a Ferrari with close to no miles on the clock. Yeah, you really use, abuse and recycle that one.

    2) "They do not define me nor do they lessen me".
    Now that is just a plane lame remark. If anything your car defines you. You are all but standing on your Ferrari whenever you belittle Porsche owners.
    Here on Rennteam your car not only defines you, it is a vital tool in your Porsche-bashing campaign.

    3) "I drive a very middle class/main stream car, the Mini, I couldn't be more proud"
    That remark resembles the old "politician holds baby during election campaign". Do you even buy that yourself?

    Re: Resale value rankings.

    Quote:
    Dr. Phil said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    If I missed your name, I apologize.

    If calling a car Middle Class is disrespectful, then God help as all. Your right I don't get it because at the end of the day I view these toys as nothing more than expendables. The are to be use, abused and recycled.

    They do not define me nor do they lessen me. If in your mind they do, then you need to step out and learn more about yourself. I drive a very middle class/main stream car, the Mini, I couldn't be more proud.



    It's not about calling Porsche a middle class car. It may well be to some.
    It's about your ongoing attitude to other people. There is no point in your posts, no will to make a difference. You dont want people to contact Porsche and change the things you complain about. You just want to [beep] people off.
    But of course, you already know this.

    Apart from this, I think you just managed to disavow everything you normally represent.

    1) "I view these toys as nothing more than expendables. The are to be use, abused and recycled."
    Sure, which is why you own a Ferrari with close to no miles on the clock. Yeah, you really use, abuse and recycle that one.

    2) "They do not define me nor do they lessen me".
    Now that is just a plane lame remark. If anything your car defines you. You are all but standing on your Ferrari whenever you belittle Porsche owners.
    Here on Rennteam your car not only defines you, it is a vital tool in your Porsche-bashing campaign.

    3) "I drive a very middle class/main stream car, the Mini, I couldn't be more proud"
    That remark resembles the old "politician holds baby during election campaign". Do you even buy that yourself?



    1) I have over 11000 miles on my 430.

    2) Ownership of a Ferrari has nothing to do with my Porsche views. I also own a Porsche. Most of my time is spent driving my Mini and enjoy every minute in it. The problem is it is in your mind that I also own a Ferrari and somehow my ownership is viewed by you as a license to attack Porsche. If anything, owning a Ferrari has mellowed my opinion of Porsche.

    3) I love the car so much I am considering buying another Mini.

    I remain puzzled why you have reacted as you have regarding this thread. As I have written earlier, I will not use the appellation again unless I am called out to do so.

    Re: Resale value rankings.

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    I remain puzzled why you have reacted as you have regarding this thread. As I have written earlier, I will not use the appellation again unless I am called out to do so.



    I think its admirablee that a senior citizen such as yourself still has the spunk to be arrogant. Nice job!

    Re: Resale value rankings.

    My casual observation after a little over a year of ownership(and I believe Lasse touched on this earlier):It really seems that children/young adults are the best barometer of how nice/cool a car is.They are often so much more honest/free in their comments and reaction than many of us crusty adults- I guess no jealousy/envy, bias,etc...to cloud their minds. So I definitely discount or dismiss negative/adulterated comments.

    Re: Resale value rankings.

    Nick,

    You should ask yourself why you are always trying to draw negative attention to yourself on this board. You own a very special car with the F430. What is it about crapping on other Porsche owners that gives you such satisfaction?

    Re: Resale value rankings.

    Quote:
    Whoopsy said:
    hehe, I didn't say Ferrari is the Lexus of the sport car field, I just say the 430 is the Lexus in the Ferrari stable


    Actually I think Ferrari is to FIAT, as Lexus is to Toyota...

    Re: Resale value rankings.

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    If I missed your name, I apologize.

    If calling a car Middle Class is disrespectful, then God help as all. Your right I don't get it because at the end of the day I view these toys as nothing more than expendables. The are to be use, abused and recycled.

    They do not define me nor do they lessen me. If in your mind they do, then you need to step out and learn more about yourself. I drive a very middle class/main stream car, the Mini, I couldn't be more proud.



    I used to think of myself as Middle Class until I spent a lot of time in Leeds, this year, Now I consider myself Upper Class.

    But to get back on topic, even here in the UK Porsche resale values are taking a severe battering due to the market being flooded with new P cars. The previous carefully managed supply and demand strategy always strictly adhered to by Porsche has been overtaken by greed. My Pounds51k Boxster is now worth Pounds32k after only 1 year and 8,000 miles. Whilst no-one buys a modern car as an investment, residual values DO matter to those of us not made of money.

    Re: Resale value rankings.

    The excellent resale value of Porsches are probably a myth, because of the option policy. I suspect resale rankings are comparing the typical used Porsche (which was ordered with about $8k in "must-have" options) with the new price of a barebones new car (which hardly anyone buys).

    Re: Resale value rankings.

    Quote:
    Dr. Phil said:
    Pretty accurate description of our hero:
    "Internet trolls are additionally interested in meeting their own attention-needs, which are often unmet in their real life, and may suffer from various psychological disorders. Whether trolling is a protected free speech activity or whether it amounts to libel and defamation depends upon the nature, content, and result of the statements by the troll.

    Internet trolls have been described as "sad people, living their lonely lives vicariously through those they see as strong and successful." They typically possess a poorly developed set of social skills and have difficulty viewing their actions from the perspectives of their victims. They may be callous to the fact that they are harming real people, instead viewing Internet users as "digital abstractions". They may thus feel no remorse for harm they cause, and in fact may judge their own level of "success" by the amount of that harm. Most are impervious to rationale, mature arguments against their wares, and will protest that their right to free speech is being curtailed if ever there is an attempt to call them on their trolling."

    Source: http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/Internet_troll



    Yes definitely Nick is suffering from pyschological disorders. Although my specific examples in my previous post were deleted by the mod, I guarantee you at least half of what I said is true about Nick, however unflattering they were. It's like when you see someone walking down the street talking to himself, you know he has psycholocal problems. So, as with Nick, his anti-social actions betray his true mental state. Of course he has no idea, but it's quite evident to normal people.

    David

    Re: Resale value rankings.

    Quote:
    Erik said:
    Nick,

    You should ask yourself why you are always trying to draw negative attention to yourself on this board. You own a very special car with the F430. What is it about crapping on other Porsche owners that gives you such satisfaction?



    He has low self-esteem.

    David

    Re: Resale value rankings.

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Quote:
    Dr. Phil said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    If I missed your name, I apologize.

    If calling a car Middle Class is disrespectful, then God help as all. Your right I don't get it because at the end of the day I view these toys as nothing more than expendables. The are to be use, abused and recycled.

    They do not define me nor do they lessen me. If in your mind they do, then you need to step out and learn more about yourself. I drive a very middle class/main stream car, the Mini, I couldn't be more proud.



    It's not about calling Porsche a middle class car. It may well be to some.
    It's about your ongoing attitude to other people. There is no point in your posts, no will to make a difference. You dont want people to contact Porsche and change the things you complain about. You just want to [beep] people off.
    But of course, you already know this.

    Apart from this, I think you just managed to disavow everything you normally represent.

    1) "I view these toys as nothing more than expendables. The are to be use, abused and recycled."
    Sure, which is why you own a Ferrari with close to no miles on the clock. Yeah, you really use, abuse and recycle that one.

    2) "They do not define me nor do they lessen me".
    Now that is just a plane lame remark. If anything your car defines you. You are all but standing on your Ferrari whenever you belittle Porsche owners.
    Here on Rennteam your car not only defines you, it is a vital tool in your Porsche-bashing campaign.

    3) "I drive a very middle class/main stream car, the Mini, I couldn't be more proud"
    That remark resembles the old "politician holds baby during election campaign". Do you even buy that yourself?



    1) I have over 11000 miles on my 430.

    2) Ownership of a Ferrari has nothing to do with my Porsche views. I also own a Porsche. Most of my time is spent driving my Mini and enjoy every minute in it. The problem is it is in your mind that I also own a Ferrari and somehow my ownership is viewed by you as a license to attack Porsche. If anything, owning a Ferrari has mellowed my opinion of Porsche.

    3) I love the car so much I am considering buying another Mini.

    I remain puzzled why you have reacted as you have regarding this thread. As I have written earlier, I will not use the appellation again unless I am called out to do so.



    Of course you're puzzled. I've been a member of rennteam for years and you've never gotten how your deviant anti-social (troll) behavior affects others. There have been hundreds of posts and numerous people that told you they don't appreciate your posts, to put it mildly. And yet you continue. You continue to be "puzzled." This isn't surprising. A common attribute of trolls is that they are also sociopaths, i.e. they have no clue how their actions affects the emotions of others, nor do they care.

    David

    Re: Resale value rankings.

    Gosh, I went away for a couple of weeks on vacation and returned to discover that this thread, which nberry deliberately created to stir up trouble, is STILL rumbling along...

    IMHO if nberry says something worthwhile then, by all means, we should debate it fully. But, IMO he threw this cheap comment out there to see what trouble he could cause. Why give his ridiculous view any respect by spending your valuable time, energy and brain cells on it.

    The moment nberry says something valid, I am happy to agree with him. But if he just wants to annoy Porsche owners (whom he regards as 'suckers') then please don't dignify his more ludicrous comments with a response. It only serves to give those comments some much needed credibility.

    nberry, you may revel in the lavish attention you get, but you should realise it is for all the wrong reasons

    Re: Resale value rankings.

    Quote:
    DavidSF said:
    Here here!
    Nick is just pissed off because he doesn't have any children at his old age. Nick is a bitter old man. Just remember that, and his boorish behavior makes sense. Looking at the now infamous photo of him posing with his F360 in front of Starbucks I'm guessing he's in his late 60s. His Ferrari is his substitute "baby." Poor guy. He has some sort of weird fixation on resale values. Probably because he spent his last penny on his Ferrari, and so he can't enjoy it as much as we enjoy our Porsches. Poor guy.

    David

    P.S. The F430 depreciates faster than the 997TT, according to EVO magazine as shown in this attached pic (sorry for the blurriness, it was taken with my cell phone). F430 has a worse depreciation rating than 997TT.



    Guys, I'm not sure I like the " discussion tone" of some of the posts.
    Why does it always have to get personal, especially since I assume you guys even don't know each other personally?

    To make it clear: this is the first and last warning shot.

    Back to the subject: I don't know about the US but over here in Germany, the 997 Turbo isn't really keeping it's value, there are even dealers who have brandnew 997 Turbo Cabs sitting in their showroom for immediate delivery.
    Even used F430 are sold over here for a lot of money, not much below the new car value, it is even worse with the Spider.

    I won't even mention other Porsche models like the Cayenne or Cayman which are the worst "investment" in my opinion.

    Porsche still didn't understand how the german market works and the US market isn't really profitable for them, especially at the current USD exchange rate (I know, I know, this has no immediate impact but still...). I may be wrong but over the past two or three years, Porsche didn't earn a cent with their CARS. So they may be the most profitable car maker on this planet but maybe we should look at things from a different angle and forget about the cars.

    Re: Resale value rankings.

    Instead of buying the next 911, we will be buying shares of the Porsche Investment Fund; instead of talking about 0-60 or top speed, we will be talking daily highs and lows and trade volume......

    Hmm.....yummy.

    Re: Resale value rankings.

    Quote:
    easy_rider911 said:
    Gosh, I went away for a couple of weeks on vacation and returned to discover that this thread, which nberry deliberately created to stir up trouble, is STILL rumbling along...

    IMHO if nberry says something worthwhile then, by all means, we should debate it fully. But, IMO he threw this cheap comment out there to see what trouble he could cause. Why give his ridiculous view any respect by spending your valuable time, energy and brain cells on it.

    The moment nberry says something valid, I am happy to agree with him. But if he just wants to annoy Porsche owners (whom he regards as 'suckers') then please don't dignify his more ludicrous comments with a response. It only serves to give those comments some much needed credibility.

    nberry, you may revel in the lavish attention you get, but you should realise it is for all the wrong reasons



    Sshhhhhhhhhhhh! He's been quiet sleeping under a bridge. Don't wake him up!

    David

    Re: Resale value rankings.

    Quote:
    RC said:
    Quote:
    DavidSF said:
    Here here!
    Nick is just pissed off because he doesn't have any children at his old age. Nick is a bitter old man. Just remember that, and his boorish behavior makes sense. Looking at the now infamous photo of him posing with his F360 in front of Starbucks I'm guessing he's in his late 60s. His Ferrari is his substitute "baby." Poor guy. He has some sort of weird fixation on resale values. Probably because he spent his last penny on his Ferrari, and so he can't enjoy it as much as we enjoy our Porsches. Poor guy.

    David

    P.S. The F430 depreciates faster than the 997TT, according to EVO magazine as shown in this attached pic (sorry for the blurriness, it was taken with my cell phone). F430 has a worse depreciation rating than 997TT.



    Guys, I'm not sure I like the " discussion tone" of some of the posts.
    Why does it always have to get personal, especially since I assume you guys even don't know each other personally?

    To make it clear: this is the first and last warning shot.

    Back to the subject: I don't know about the US but over here in Germany, the 997 Turbo isn't really keeping it's value, there are even dealers who have brandnew 997 Turbo Cabs sitting in their showroom for immediate delivery.
    Even used F430 are sold over here for a lot of money, not much below the new car value, it is even worse with the Spider.

    I won't even mention other Porsche models like the Cayenne or Cayman which are the worst "investment" in my opinion.

    Porsche still didn't understand how the german market works and the US market isn't really profitable for them, especially at the current USD exchange rate (I know, I know, this has no immediate impact but still...). I may be wrong but over the past two or three years, Porsche didn't earn a cent with their CARS. So they may be the most profitable car maker on this planet but maybe we should look at things from a different angle and forget about the cars.



    Question...Nick is clearly a troll. Have you read his posts in this thread? Any other messageboard he would've been banned. Why is he tolerated here and why doesn't he get any warnings?
    David

    Re: Resale value rankings.

    There is a fine line between trolling and expressing different opinion that the forum's mayority, and Nick knows very well hwo to walk that edge and purpously plays at that edge, still Nick has been banned temporarily before in this forum because sometimes he has been too excessive.

    But what we don't tolerate at all are members who personally attack other members, no matter who. I have had to edit your posts in the past and clearly warned you about it, next time you will recieve no warning, and I don't think you'd want Nick to be the cause of you being banned on top of it, right?

    Re: Resale value rankings.

    RC & Carlos,

    This Board is an International, multi-lingual and multi-cutural society. Sometimes, these factors get in the way of distinguishing between what is acceptable and what is not.

    Would it be possible to issue warnings against inappropriate posting to individuals by PM's?

    I, for one, would appreciate this approach rather than a general sweeping "First and last warning shot" statement.

    At least we would know if we had personally digressed from acceptable standards, and could make subsequent adjustments, rather than wondering who the warning is aimed at.

    Please give it some consideration - thank you....John.

    Re: Resale value rankings.

    Hi John,

    Its not a first and last warnig shot, DavidSF in this case has been warned by me before on this very subject in previous times and now RC is giving him a last warning because he continues regardless. We would all prefer the members to modify they behaviour rather than being forced to ban them, so them member will know before that if they are crossing the line and be given a chance to change (we are all human), but if they continue, they will be banned in favour of maintaining the friendly enviroment that characterizes this forum.

    Sometimes the moderators have to call for order in general in a post asking for the posters to please reconduct the thread, but unless you are mentioned directly that is no biggie, its just a call for cooperation before things get out of hand.

    What 'm trying to say is that we barely have to ban anybody here (except for spammer and such) in Rennteam, especially regular posters that are well integrated into the comunity, and that before that ever happens you will not only know about it but also be given the benefit of the doubt, since we all can have a bad day, or may be new to forums, or may come from a nother forum were flaming is allowed, etc, etc. But is the member refuses to change no matter how many warnings he has been given, it will be done in a blink of an eye for all our benefit. This may be RC's first and last warning to DavidSF, but RC knows I have already warned DavidSF before several times,thast why its not only the first but also last in this case.

     
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