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    Nov 15, 2007 9:33:19 PM

    silverrules
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    silverrules
    Loc: N. Calif , United States
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    Registered on: Jan 5, 2005
    Reply to: atomic80

    Re: Venture shield or 3M clear bra

    Thanks Jason. I just talked with my installer (premier in Fremont CA) and according to him VS with clearcoat will be used on my car. He will custom install which will cover the entire hood and the fenders plus other STD area's. Cost is $2000. Is that reasonable? Also He says VS was aquired by 3M about 3 months ago. They (VS and 3M) are both 8.5mil thick. Check out the cars that he has worked on, Bugatti, etc
    http://www.premiermobilegroup.com/gallery_bugatti_veyron.shtml

    Nov 16, 2007 2:56:08 PM

    atomic80
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    Loc: Bellevue, WA USA , United States
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    Reply to: silverrules

    Re: Venture shield or 3M clear bra

    $2000 sounds very reasonable to me. The shop up here charges around $2500 for pretty much the same thing although I'm not sure if Premier adds coverage on the mirrors, door handle hockey puck, door edges, rear fenders, etc. I didn't realize that VS was bought out by 3M!!!! That's definitely big news!

    Nov 16, 2007 3:23:10 PM

    devo
    Veteran
    devo
    Loc: NY , United States
    Posts: 1107, Gallery
    Registered on: Jan 31, 2006
    Reply to: Popolou

    Re: Venture shield or 3M clear bra

    Quote:
    Popolou said:
    Quote:
    silverrules said:
    Quote:
    STRADALE said:
    Quote:
    silverrules said:
    Which one do you folks prefer? My car is on the truck heading home and I want to make sure I choose the right stuff. I have been using 3M but saw the Venture shiled which was thinner and less visible. Thanks.




    Congrats on your car coming! Can't wait to see that beauty!
    Last 7 yrs I've had 6 of my own cars done & my moms car done w/ 3M. I'm not sure if there are different grades of 3M film but none of it ever yellowed like the film on the rear quarter from Porsche. The quality of the installation is really the biggest factor. My 3M installer doesn't use pre-cut kits he customizes every single install. Basically you want to make sure the film is being wrapped around body panels and not just cut to sit on top w/ the edges visible. My last few cars I've driven directly to the 3M installer from the dealership, getting it done right away is also important to how it will look because if you get pock marks in the paint this will be visible through the film. I don't have any experience w/ Venture shield but if it's thinner would be a little wary of it's ability to absorb impacts as well. But that's just a guess.

    If you really want some expert advice give a call to my buds at Detailing Dynamics, they're pretty much the best in the business. I know you couldn't have your car done there being from CA but I'm sure they wouldn't mind steering you in the right direction. Eddy or Matt.
    http://www.detailingdynamics.com/index.html



    Thanks Gregg. I'll post pic's as soon as I get the beast. Should be here by the end of the week at the latest. You have a good point about wrapping the bra around the edges. My last two cars had the pre cut and it did not cover the edges and technically you can get hit on those areas. I wonder if my installer will do the custome cut. Later.



    Actually, i wouldn't let anyone armed with a scalpel near my car. Precut is really the way to go and interestingly, the film is laser cut with just a little more on each dimension so as to allow the wrapping of the edges. The film also needs a little tugging/stretching on application too.

    Pop



    Maybe so, but I have yet to see a laser cut kit that extends over the edges.

    I have to say that Detailing Dynamics (Stradale's recommendation; thanks again, Gregg) did a fantastic job on my turbo. They cut each piece to size. I'm confident that the better installers measure on the car and cut elsewhere. There were certainly no marks on my car.

    Nov 16, 2007 5:19:03 PM

    chrisNY
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    chrisNY
    Loc: Long Island
    Posts: 196, Gallery
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    Reply to: silverrules

    Re: Venture shield or 3M clear bra

    Geez, these film threads illicit as much passion as "how do I break in my car" LOL!

    Anyway, I could not agree more with Gregg. I think it's much more important as to WHO does the job as to which product they use.

    Matt (detailing dynamics) also did my car and I couldn't be happier. Everything is tucked where it can be, a minimum of seams. I don't think any of us keep our cars long enough to really know that one film is so superior to another. Both will probably need to be re-done at some point.

    There is a very large car show here every sunday from muscle cars to exotics. I can't tell you how many times I'd look over only to see someone down on their knees looking over the car and them asking me about the film.

    Against Matt's advice, I did not do the whole hood but did 1/4. I never liked film and like the "feel" of the paint (I know, i'm a sicko)so I wanted as much painted surface to be left as possible. If you look at the right angle you can see the line.

    I can't tell you how many people have made comments about the job and how great it looked compared to others - which i'm sure the majority were 3M.

    Like I said, I think the installer is more important than the film.

    Nov 20, 2007 4:15:04 AM

    silverrules
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    silverrules
    Loc: N. Calif , United States
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    Reply to: atomic80

    Re: Venture shield or 3M clear bra

    Quote:
    atomic80 said:
    $2000 sounds very reasonable to me. The shop up here charges around $2500 for pretty much the same thing although I'm not sure if Premier adds coverage on the mirrors, door handle hockey puck, door edges, rear fenders, etc. I didn't realize that VS was bought out by 3M!!!! That's definitely big news!



    Jason, Did your custom install cover rear fenders?How much area should they cover for the rear fenders? Where should the line end? They probably know but I want to make sure I got it right. I am having mine done tomorrow. Front fenders are pretty obvious. Thx

    Nov 20, 2007 4:27:05 AM

    atomic80
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    Reply to: silverrules

    Re: Venture shield or 3M clear bra

    It'd be really hard for me to explain how to do the rear fenders but I'll try. I haven't had this done to mine but I've seen others who have. Basically they remove the factory covers and put Ventureshield in that area going up the sides all the way over the rear fenders about 5 inches above the wheel well opening down towards the lower rear bumper. I personally didn't think it looked very good. I'd just suggest having them remove the factory cover and put a slightly larger one on there. My installer also put some coverage on the vent opening too.

    Nov 21, 2007 5:02:12 PM

    Over the Hill
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    Over the Hill
    Loc: Bellevue, Washington, USA
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    Reply to: atomic80

    Re: Venture shield or 3M clear bra

    Quote:
    atomic80 said:
    As long as you maintain the non-covered portions properly then it'd be fine.



    I can vouch for that! I had religiously maintained the finish of my old car, nevertheless the clear bra after 5 years was looking very ratty with rock dings everywhere. When I saw my car again several weeks after I sold it, I wouldn't have recognized it except for the license plate. The new owner had removed the clear bra and the front of the car was like new. (Sellers remorse)

    Nov 21, 2007 7:22:09 PM

    STRADALE
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    Reply to: chrisNY

    Re: Venture shield or 3M clear bra

    Quote:
    chrisNY said:
    Geez, these film threads illicit as much passion as "how do I break in my car" LOL!

    Anyway, I could not agree more with Gregg. I think it's much more important as to WHO does the job as to which product they use.

    Matt (detailing dynamics) also did my car and I couldn't be happier. Everything is tucked where it can be, a minimum of seams. I don't think any of us keep our cars long enough to really know that one film is so superior to another. Both will probably need to be re-done at some point.

    There is a very large car show here every sunday from muscle cars to exotics. I can't tell you how many times I'd look over only to see someone down on their knees looking over the car and them asking me about the film.

    Against Matt's advice, I did not do the whole hood but did 1/4. I never liked film and like the "feel" of the paint (I know, i'm a sicko)so I wanted as much painted surface to be left as possible. If you look at the right angle you can see the line.

    I can't tell you how many people have made comments about the job and how great it looked compared to others - which i'm sure the majority were 3M.

    Like I said, I think the installer is more important than the film.



    You're welcome. devo too. Glad both you guys were very happy w/ DD. That's what happens to me all the time too, especially at car shows.

    Premier has an interesting area called "COMPETITORS WORK", guess it's kind of like the film bloopers. Shows you the difference though in the quality of the installation from beginners to Pro's:
    http://www.premiermobilegroup.com/gallery_competitors_work.shtml

    Some areas of the world you just can't get Top-Notch film install. Notice none here are pre-cut kits:
    http://www.premiermobilegroup.com/gallery_porsche_gt3_997_turbo.shtml

    Nov 22, 2007 5:32:55 AM

    silverrules
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    silverrules
    Loc: N. Calif , United States
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    Reply to: STRADALE

    Re: Venture shield or 3M clear bra

    Team, Here is what I learned after Premier installed the VS film.
    They custome installed the film, covered the entire hood, F-fenders, door entry, around the wheel etc. Last week when I asked him the diff between 3M and VS he indicated that both 3M and VS were 8.5mils. I kept few pieces of the last 3M install which I had done last Jan on my 997TT coupe and when I pulled it out to show him it had yellowed out and was 20mils compared to 8.5mil for VS. To clean VS you need to use a heat gun for 3 secs, 4 inches above the scratch. 3M scrathces are removed with spraying Alcohol. I was suprised to see 3M yellowing. I was told 3M had resolved yellowing and the reason I used it on my last 997TT. Don't know who to beleive any more. I think VS is more easily scratched compared to 3M but time will tell. 3M protection should be better as it is thicker but yellowing is the probelm. Confused? Me 2

    Nov 22, 2007 6:28:23 AM

    atomic80
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    Reply to: silverrules

    Re: Venture shield or 3M clear bra

    3M also has clearcoating which is why you're able to remove scratches with alcohol. VS actually has two versions now. One with clearcoating and one without. The clearcoated version is a bit thicker and costs a bit more too. I had my non clearcoated VS replaced with the clearcoated version and it looks much better. Easier to maintain too.

    What's even more interesting is that 3M has apparently bought out VentureShield so I'm not sure what will happen. My guess is that they'll continue as separate brands at least for now.

    Nov 22, 2007 6:20:11 PM

    silverrules
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    silverrules
    Loc: N. Calif , United States
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    Reply to: atomic80

    Re: Venture shield or 3M clear bra

    The Venture shield they installed on my car is the clearcoat version but still 8.5mils. He also offered the lower quality at cheaper price but I refused.

    3M yellowing picture attached.

    Nov 23, 2007 4:00:15 PM

    STRADALE
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    Reply to: silverrules

    Re: Venture shield or 3M clear bra *DELETED*

    More pics when you can silver!!

    That is strange w/ what happened. Also the film you have says 3M but not 3M Scotchguard? I'm going to ask next time I speak w/ the installer see if he has an explaination.

    Nov 24, 2007 5:39:55 AM

    silverrules
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    silverrules
    Loc: N. Calif , United States
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    Reply to: STRADALE

    Re: Venture shield or 3M clear bra *DELETED*

    OK Gregg, more pics tomorrow. I bet you can't wait for your cab, ha? I don't feel bad for you as you already have the the red bad boy in your garage. You didn't change the color again, did you
    I think we may be discovering something here with 3M and VS. Wonder if there are fake 3M's like the one they isntalled on my last 997TT!!!Does yours say 3M Scotchguard?

    Nov 25, 2007 3:26:23 PM

    STRADALE
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    Reply to: silverrules

    Re: Venture shield or 3M clear bra *DELETED*

    Quote:
    silverrules said:
    OK Gregg, more pics tomorrow. I bet you can't wait for your cab, ha? I don't feel bad for you as you already have the the red bad boy in your garage. You didn't change the color again, did you
    I think we may be discovering something here with 3M and VS. Wonder if there are fake 3M's like the one they isntalled on my last 997TT!!!Does yours say 3M Scotchguard?



    I'm almost sure the film that I saw at my installer said "3M Scotchguard" on the inside paper. Dun no silver, can't say for sure what is going on. I didn't change the color again & won't be making any other changes. The final spec. w/ the changes I made are here:
    http://www.rennteam.com/showflat.php?Cat...=1&fpart=19

    I had added some stuff like ECA shifter, leather seat backs, leather PCM etc. \

    Yeah it's not that difficult to wait when you already have a great sports car. But it's going to be a long winter for me I think, would love to live in CA where you can really enjoy these cars yr round.

    How many miles do you have so far? You must be having so much fun. From everything I've read from tests the Cabrio. is an awesome drive, some Porsche writers even stating it's a better drivers car then the Coupe.

    Nov 26, 2007 5:51:29 AM

    silverrules
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    silverrules
    Loc: N. Calif , United States
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    Reply to: STRADALE

    Re: Venture shield or 3M clear bra *DELETED*

    Hey Gregg, move to CA and enjoy your toy's even more. You will love this car, you will see. I'm not looking forward to all the rain. It's actually getting a little cold for top down driving. This weekend was probably the last top down for a while. I had the coupe and I can assure you this car is by far more fun to drive than the coupe. It's not even fair to compare them. Totally different car. Take your 997S cab put it on steroid and all wheel drive and you will know what I am talking about. I have put on 198 miles so far. can't wait for break in period to be over but its gonna be a while specially with the winter upon us. My daughter (13 yr old) begs for top down driving. I need to take more pics. I haven't forgotten. Later man.

    Nov 29, 2007 9:46:06 PM

    Alex_997TT
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    Reply to: silverrules

    What about NO protection?

    QUESTION: is there an argument against getting paint protection?

    I am getting close now to my delivery and my preferred Ventureshield reseller has now severed ties with Venture Tape. As such they are now offering 2 European choices of Llumar and Avery (both with new products only just released that are supposed to be as good if not better than 3M/VT).

    Anyway, this change has made me a little nervous as I am worried about these products not being fully proven yet. This is how the fitter rates them all:

    * Clarity - Llumar by some margin

    * Strength - Avery/VT are almost identical (the strong part of the film comes from the same manufacturer

    * Glue - Avery

    * Stretch - VT then Avery the difference is in the glue

    * Orange Peel - 3M has least smooth finish

    * Max Film Size - 56inch VT, 54inch Llumar, 40inch Avery(63inch due any moment), 48inch 3M

    * Scratch resistance - 3M/Llumar and Avery similar, more like VT non Clear coat

    With the added decision of whether to go for just bumper or full front end, I have started to question whether I could live with not having anything at all. I did just fine with my old Carrera and a basalt black Porsche paint stick for chips.

    Then there is the question about my painted rockers (lower lip and grilles). As these are flexible areas apparently even with protection these painted areas can crack and then get dirt in them.

    So I am just wondering whether it would just be easier/cheaper to give it a miss?! Some of the really good waxes dry like concrete so perhaps this is an alternative...

    Nov 29, 2007 10:19:20 PM

    Rickless
    Newbie
    Rickless
    Loc: Florida
    Posts: 36, Gallery
    Registered on: Mar 3, 2006
    Reply to: STRADALE

    Florida Installers??

    Anyone know of a good installer for venture shield in Southeast Florida?? I have a TT Cab coming very soon, thanks!!

    Nov 30, 2007 6:42:09 AM

    silverrules
    Senior
    silverrules
    Loc: N. Calif , United States
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    Reply to: Alex_997TT

    Re: What about NO protection?

    Quote:
    Alex_ said:
    QUESTION: is there an argument against getting paint protection?

    I am getting close now to my delivery and my preferred Ventureshield reseller has now severed ties with Venture Tape. As such they are now offering 2 European choices of Llumar and Avery (both with new products only just released that are supposed to be as good if not better than 3M/VT).

    Anyway, this change has made me a little nervous as I am worried about these products not being fully proven yet. This is how the fitter rates them all:

    * Clarity - Llumar by some margin

    * Strength - Avery/VT are almost identical (the strong part of the film comes from the same manufacturer

    * Glue - Avery

    * Stretch - VT then Avery the difference is in the glue

    * Orange Peel - 3M has least smooth finish

    * Max Film Size - 56inch VT, 54inch Llumar, 40inch Avery(63inch due any moment), 48inch 3M

    * Scratch resistance - 3M/Llumar and Avery similar, more like VT non Clear coat

    With the added decision of whether to go for just bumper or full front end, I have started to question whether I could live with not having anything at all. I did just fine with my old Carrera and a basalt black Porsche paint stick for chips.

    Then there is the question about my painted rockers (lower lip and grilles). As these are flexible areas apparently even with protection these painted areas can crack and then get dirt in them.

    So I am just wondering whether it would just be easier/cheaper to give it a miss?! Some of the really good waxes dry like concrete so perhaps this is an alternative...



    Alex, Premier who installed the Venture shield on my 997TT cab sweared that Lumar is the worst product you can use. My knowledge is limied on this topic but VS was his choice. I guess time will only tell. You can hardly tell you have the bra on using VS. He has been in the business for 12 years. You may want to contact him and discuss these options. Good luck and congrats on your new car
    premiermobilegroup.com/
    His name is Sam

    Dec 3, 2007 6:40:01 PM

    Alex_997TT
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    Loc: Reading , United Kingdom
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    Reply to: silverrules

    Re: What about NO protection?

    Almost certainly not going to bother now getting any paint protection.

    The above is giving me a headache trying to decide what to do.

  • If I go with 3M it will cost me a lot more plus they won't fit at my OPC without invalidating warranty. Plus I am not too keen on 3M from the stories I have heard.

  • If I go with Ventureshield then VT won't honor UK warranty as apparently they only care about the US market and leave it to local dealers to sort out any issues. Plus VS clearcoat has not got the greatest scratch protection reputation from what I hear.

  • If I go with new to market Llumar/Avery products then who knows what these will be like in a years time as they are yet unproven. And these are not exactly big players in the paint protection market as far as I am aware.

  • Then there are the fiddly and problematic grilles along with lower spoilers to worry about fitting.

    My OPC say they have stopped bothering putting paint protection on their Cayenne models now as wherever they fit it, a big stone ends up hitting exactly just outside the covered area. Sods law and all...

    So I think I will make do with my trusty Porsche paint touch-up stick. Only like Pounds8! I managed just fine with my old black Carrera for nearly 3 years so an Arctic Silver 911 should be very easy to maintain in comparison. A full front-end re-spray would be about Pounds1500 apparently should I wish to do it one day. Not far away from what it would cost to put the paint protection down in the first place.

    • Dec 3, 2007 7:06:06 PM

    atomic80
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    Reply to: Alex_997TT

    Re: What about NO protection?

    Alex,

    You're putting as much effort into this clear bra issue as you did with your color decisionmaking adventure. My point is I think you're thinking too much here. My suggestion would be to go with what works for most of us folks out there. With that said, I still stand by my recommendation that you try Ventureshield with the clearcoat. I really haven't had any issues with scratches and such. My word may not mean much to you but that's what I'm recommending that you do.

    Dec 3, 2007 7:32:10 PM

    Alex_997TT
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    Alex_997TT
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    Reply to: atomic80

    Re: What about NO protection?

    Quote:
    atomic80 said:
    My word may not mean much to you but that's what I'm recommending that you do.



    Jason - I appreciate your view-point as much as anyones. Thankyou. And yes, I am over-thinking it. But until I get my car in the next couple of days, thinking is all I got!

    Even if I accepted the VS Clearcoat as the best product though, I would still have the warranty issue with VT here in the UK. So I seem damned if I do and damned if I don't

    Dec 3, 2007 8:47:34 PM

    STRADALE
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    Reply to: atomic80

    Re: What about NO protection?

    Quote:
    atomic80 said:
    Alex,

    You're putting as much effort into this clear bra issue as you did with your color decisionmaking adventure. My point is I think you're thinking too much here. My suggestion would be to go with what works for most of us folks out there. With that said, I still stand by my recommendation that you try Ventureshield with the clearcoat. I really haven't had any issues with scratches and such. My word may not mean much to you but that's what I'm recommending that you do.




    Agree 100%, don't give up on it Alex. Even though it appears like there aren't any installers like Detailing Dynamics or Premier in the U.K. I'd go w/ the best one possible. Having it really can make the difference between needing a re-spray and not, which for me is an absolute last resort. Plus you have painted rockers & rear apron, there's good reason's why Porsche doesn't normally paint these areas & makes the paint just above the optional painted side rockers, wrinkled.../ it's an even bigger reason for getting it done.

    Dec 3, 2007 9:16:20 PM

    vig168
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    vig168
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    Reply to: STRADALE

    Re: What about NO protection?

    I live in Somerset County, NJ. Does any one know any installer who does a good job on clear bra (VentureShield)? I know next to nothing about these things.

    Thanks!!

    Dec 3, 2007 9:17:29 PM

    atomic80
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    Reply to: STRADALE

    Re: What about NO protection?

    Alex,

    I got Stongard coverage on my Range Rover a couple years ago. They used the original 3M material which has since then yellowed on me. There's a lifetime warranty on the 3M material but only through the installer and guess what, they went out of business. I still have the "yellow" 3M material and there's no way for me to get it warrantied but who cares, it looks fine and hasn't been problematic for me.

    Dec 3, 2007 9:19:12 PM

    atomic80
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    Reply to: vig168

    Re: What about NO protection?

    Quote:
    vig168 said:
    I live in Somerset County, NJ. Does any one know any installer who does a good job on clear bra (VentureShield)? I know next to nothing about these things.

    Thanks!!



    Try going here: www.premiermobilegroup.com. They're the best down there.

    Dec 3, 2007 9:30:12 PM

    STRADALE
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    Reply to: vig168

    Re: What about NO protection?

    Quote:
    vig168 said:
    I live in Somerset County, NJ. Does any one know any installer who does a good job on clear bra (VentureShield)? I know next to nothing about these things.

    Thanks!!



    Best film installer in the country is in Mineola NY/ Ask for Matt or Eddie, tell them Gregg sent you:

    http://www.detailingdynamics.com/

    Dec 3, 2007 9:52:59 PM

    Alex_997TT
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    Loc: Reading , United Kingdom
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    Reply to: STRADALE

    Re: What about NO protection?

    Gregg - how was your old Arctic Silver Carrera with stone chips?

    Did you notice them much given the silver primer underneath?!

    Dec 3, 2007 10:34:06 PM

    ISUK Offline
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    Reply to: Alex_997TT

    Re: What about NO protection?

    Quote:
    Alex_ said:
    A full front-end re-spray would be about Pounds1500 apparently should I wish to do it one day. Not far away from what it would cost to put the paint protection down in the first place.



    Alex,

    My TT is basalt and I've got no protective film on it. I had an Artic 997 C2 and that was the easiest colour I've ever had for hiding stone chips using a touch up brush and Langka. I'm surprised at your Pounds1,500 quote for the front end respray. I got two quotes to respray a Cayman S in Artic that my girlfriend drove. Both were Porsche approved bodyshops and quoted to respray the front PU (bumper), bonnet and wings. One was just over Pounds400 and the other was Pounds600. At that sort of cost it isn't worth fitting the film unless you are going to be doing high miles in your car.

    Dec 4, 2007 5:38:24 AM

    silverrules
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    Reply to: ISUK

    Re: What about NO protection?

    Guys, I am surprised that you're considering re-spraying. If my car gets painted it will be sold as soon as possible as I can't stand the thought of having different shades of color. I would not drive my TT until I had the film put on. $2K for a $170K car is peanuts. Don't even think about it. Go with VS and should be fine. The premier guys installed VS on 3 buggatis, Lamb's, F cars, etc and should be good for TT as well. my 0.02

    Dec 5, 2007 7:04:20 PM

    chrisNY
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    Loc: Long Island
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    Reply to: vig168

    Re: What about NO protection?

    Quote:
    vig168 said:
    I live in Somerset County, NJ. Does any one know any installer who does a good job on clear bra (VentureShield)? I know next to nothing about these things.

    Thanks!!



    Take a drive to Long Island and let Detailing Dynamics do it.

    oops, I see Greg already told you - you can tell them that Greg AND Chris sent you LOL.
     
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