Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: GT-R vs 911 Turbo (Top Gear) - Page3

Dec 3, 2007 12:21:31 AM

cannga: Expert; Loc: Los Angeles's "twisties" :-) , United States; Posts: 1940, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 6, 2005; Reply to: MKSGR

Re: GT-R vs 911 Turbo (Top Gear)

I think you are being too harsh with the GTR. Wouldn't f-unattractive ricer be a more courteous term?

OT Markus,

Are you going ahead with GT2? If so what color? I saw a red one at the LA Auto Show; it's VERY pretty in person. My heart was a'pounding.

Quote:
MKSGR said:

One could actually respect the GTR even if it's a fugly ricer

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Dec 3, 2007 1:02:39 AM

TWSLK55: Junior; Loc: Taiwan , Taiwan; Posts: 113, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 4, 2006; Reply to: cannga

Re: GT-R vs 911 Turbo (Top Gear)

HOw come i did not see anything about GT-R vs 911 turbo in TOPGEAR . only see GT-R vs F430 scuderia WEIRD

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Dec 3, 2007 6:11:13 AM

DavidSF: Senior; Loc:; Posts: 525, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 7, 2003; Reply to: nberry

Re: GT-R vs 911 Turbo (Top Gear)

Quote:
nberry said:
I believe Porschephiles have only themselves to blame. They allowed Porsche to become complacent because they bought whatever Porsche threw out at them. Why should Porsche change when they have the most profitable automobile business formula in the business.

As long as Porsche owners are happy with incremental performance, styling and pricing change, why not keep the dollars rolling in?

Nick, you are the most ignorant person on rennteam when it comes to Porsche cars. With a car as great as the 911, we can only expect incremental changes for incremental price increases. Yes the 997 is an incremental improvement over the 996, and it comes with an incremntal price change, thank god. Personally I welcome this. I don't want to pay a big price difference for an incremental improvement. Remember, the 911 is an excellent car, some say the best all around sports car... Do you know the "law of large numbers"? Same idea...when you have something as great as a 911, it gets tougher and tougher (read: more expensive) to make it better. Therefore incremental improvements are the norm for incremental price hikes. Now if I did want a bigger improvement I would get a GT3, but of course that will come at a higher cost. Nick you need to open your mind more to the possibilites and stop being fixated on one idea and one model. The beauty of Porsche is they offer something for everyone. That's why Porsche is so successful. If you don't want incremental and you want more significant improvement, fine, Porsche has a car for you (GT3), of course at a more than incremental price increase. Your problem is you apply what Porsche intends for one model and use it to criticize another model which is totally wacky, but a well known troll strategy.

David

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Dec 3, 2007 10:56:05 PM

MKSGR: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 8098, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2002; Reply to: cannga

Re: GT-R vs 911 Turbo (Top Gear)

Quote:
cannga said:
I think you are being too harsh with the GTR. Wouldn't f-unattractive ricer be a more courteous term?

OT Markus,

Are you going ahead with GT2? If so what color? I saw a red one at the LA Auto Show; it's VERY pretty in person. My heart was a'pounding.

Quote:
MKSGR said:

One could actually respect the GTR even if it's a fugly ricer

Yes

Right now I tend to favour black

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Dec 4, 2007 7:51:06 AM

JP66: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Seattle , United States; Posts: 2217, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 10, 2003; Reply to: DavidSF

Re: GT-R vs 911 Turbo (Top Gear)

Quote:
DavidSF said:
Quote:
nberry said:
I believe Porschephiles have only themselves to blame. They allowed Porsche to become complacent because they bought whatever Porsche threw out at them. Why should Porsche change when they have the most profitable automobile business formula in the business.

As long as Porsche owners are happy with incremental performance, styling and pricing change, why not keep the dollars rolling in?

Nick, you are the most ignorant person on rennteam when it comes to Porsche cars. With a car as great as the 911, we can only expect incremental changes for incremental price increases. Yes the 997 is an incremental improvement over the 996, and it comes with an incremntal price change, thank god. Personally I welcome this. I don't want to pay a big price difference for an incremental improvement. Remember, the 911 is an excellent car, some say the best all around sports car... Do you know the "law of large numbers"? Same idea...when you have something as great as a 911, it gets tougher and tougher (read: more expensive) to make it better. Therefore incremental improvements are the norm for incremental price hikes. Now if I did want a bigger improvement I would get a GT3, but of course that will come at a higher cost. Nick you need to open your mind more to the possibilites and stop being fixated on one idea and one model. The beauty of Porsche is they offer something for everyone. That's why Porsche is so successful. If you don't want incremental and you want more significant improvement, fine, Porsche has a car for you (GT3), of course at a more than incremental price increase. Your problem is you apply what Porsche intends for one model and use it to criticize another model which is totally wacky, but a well known troll strategy.

David

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Dec 4, 2007 9:39:22 AM

hesperus: Junior; Loc: Philippines; Posts: 110, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 28, 2004; Reply to: Porker

Re: GT-R vs 911 Turbo (Top Gear)

Quote:
Porker said:
Why are most of us, being Porsche lovers so threatened by this car?
Why to we feel the need to take our refuge into insults like 'ricer' or 'fugly car', etc...?

Why can't we as grownups respect this Nissan for what it achieves, although it's really not my kind of car, I respect it immensely, the same goes for a Z06, why would I feel the need to call it names? Just because it's faster than a car we all love? Just hope it pushes Porsche to make even better cars instead of feeling threatened by it..

It's a good car, face it...

My 2 cents, ofcourse

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Dec 5, 2007 1:58:01 PM

bostonmini: Veteran; Loc:; Posts: 924, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 31, 2003; Reply to: hesperus

Re: GT-R vs 911 Turbo (Top Gear)

GREAT car...so's the 997TT, and hopefully more so in gen II form once PTM is sorted;)

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Dec 5, 2007 6:02:02 PM

SimonH: Newbie; Loc: Lancs, UK; Posts: 49, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 21, 2007; Reply to: bostonmini

Re: GT-R vs 911 Turbo (Top Gear)

Quote:
bostonmini said:
GREAT car...so's the 997TT, and hopefully more so in gen II form once PTM is sorted;)

What dont you like about PTM?

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Dec 5, 2007 9:31:57 PM

bostonmini: Veteran; Loc:; Posts: 924, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 31, 2003; Reply to: SimonH

Re: GT-R vs 911 Turbo (Top Gear)

SIMONH-better ask owners like RC, apparently it is presently set up for a more RWD "feel" but in the process is not quite as good in terms of raw performance as the 996 AWD system...

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Dec 5, 2007 10:15:13 PM

cannga: Expert; Loc: Los Angeles's "twisties" :-) , United States; Posts: 1940, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 6, 2005; Reply to: SimonH

Re: GT-R vs 911 Turbo (Top Gear)

The 997 Turbo's performance at the track is not as good as expected; people in the know feel that the 4wd system is partly to blame. Porsche supposedly made adjustments to the PSM/PTM systems between 2007 and 2008 MY's to correct for deficiencies.

That said, some of the remarks are by professional grade drivers that take the car to levels that, I suspect, 99% of people in this forum should NOT be (we are talking about 150 plus km/h *average* speed at the Ring) and that for a Daily Driver Supercar (heavier, softer, & ride higher than its esteemed brother, the GT3 that is of course designed for the track), at 7 minute 52 seconds ring time, there is no competition to this car. (The Nissan, a great car no doubt, would be right there, but as MANY have mentioned, it's such a fugly ricer that it doesn't count.

AND it weighs nearly 400 lbs. (!!!) MORE than the 997 Turbo, itself already on the heavy side.)

I am not a professional driver, but do drive my car fairly fast (not RC type level though--I think he's an ex pro driver). My own observation FWIW is my 997 Turbo (2008 MY with PCCB and LSD) feels at least as stable in corners as my 997 C2, if anything much more planted. I do observe "slow in fast out" religiously. The car has explosive acceleration, sublime steering feel, and prodigious grip, don't miss out on it.

Quote:
SimonH said:
Quote:
bostonmini said:
GREAT car...so's the 997TT, and hopefully more so in gen II form once PTM is sorted;)

What dont you like about PTM?

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Dec 5, 2007 10:44:09 PM

cannga: Expert; Loc: Los Angeles's "twisties" :-) , United States; Posts: 1940, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 6, 2005; Reply to: MKSGR

Re: GT-R vs 911 Turbo (Top Gear)

Very good and congrats! What a car it is. I hear now that the GTR has "conquered"

the Turbo, Nissan is working on a souped-up version to go after the GT2!

Quote:
MKSGR said:
Quote:
cannga said:
I think you are being too harsh with the GTR. Wouldn't f-unattractive ricer be a more courteous term?

OT Markus,

Are you going ahead with GT2? If so what color? I saw a red one at the LA Auto Show; it's VERY pretty in person. My heart was a'pounding.

Quote:
MKSGR said:

One could actually respect the GTR even if it's a fugly ricer

Yes Right now I tend to favour black

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Dec 6, 2007 12:24:15 AM

355Spider: Co-Pilot; Loc: Dallas, Texas , United States; Posts: 277, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 27, 2006; Reply to: cannga

Re: GT-R vs 911 Turbo (Top Gear)

We'll see when production units come out. The numbers do not add up in any form or fashion. A 3800Lb car just isn't this fast. They either have alot more hp or they are lending out hot cars to the press which is the likely answer.

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Dec 6, 2007 11:59:26 AM

Mad_Al: Newbie; Loc: Italy; Posts: 13, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 11, 2006; Reply to: edz

Re: GT-R vs 911 Turbo (Top Gear)

Quote:
Nevertheless people that are P-cars die hard fans will always be loyal.

Fans will stick to their G-Models.

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Dec 6, 2007 3:42:33 PM

easy_rider911: Rennteam VIP; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 22190, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 8, 2004; Reply to: Porker

Re: GT-R vs 911 Turbo (Top Gear)

Quote:
Porker said:
Why are most of us, being Porsche lovers so threatened by this car?
Why to we feel the need to take our refuge into insults like 'ricer' or 'fugly car', etc...?

Why can't we as grownups respect this Nissan for what it achieves, although it's really not my kind of car, I respect it immensely, the same goes for a Z06, why would I feel the need to call it names? Just because it's faster than a car we all love? Just hope it pushes Porsche to make even better cars instead of feeling threatened by it..

It's a good car, face it...

My 2 cents, ofcourse

Superb post

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Dec 6, 2007 5:40:35 PM

SoCal Alan: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Orange County , United States; Posts: 7268, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 6, 2004; Reply to: easy_rider911

Re: GT-R vs 911 Turbo (Top Gear)

Quote:
easy_rider911 said:
Quote:
Porker said:
Why are most of us, being Porsche lovers so threatened by this car?
Why to we feel the need to take our refuge into insults like 'ricer' or 'fugly car', etc...?

Why can't we as grownups respect this Nissan for what it achieves, although it's really not my kind of car, I respect it immensely, the same goes for a Z06, why would I feel the need to call it names? Just because it's faster than a car we all love? Just hope it pushes Porsche to make even better cars instead of feeling threatened by it..

It's a good car, face it...

My 2 cents, ofcourse

Superb post

On the other hand, some of us are trying to state our honest observations about a car, without trying to hurt anybody's feelings. And it is damn ugly.

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Dec 6, 2007 5:42:42 PM

rhino: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Island , Saint Lucia; Posts: 2866, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 26, 2006; Reply to: SoCal Alan

Dec 6, 2007 9:50:06 PM

vesete: Newbie; Loc: Portugal; Posts: 4, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 7, 2007; Reply to: 355Spider

Re: GT-R vs 911 Turbo (Top Gear)

Quote:
355Spider said:
We'll see when production units come out. The numbers do not add up in any form or fashion. A 3800Lb car just isn't this fast. They either have alot more hp or they are lending out hot cars to the press which is the likely answer.

That is a good point.

I believe the final version is not so fast.

This GTR will be an excelent car but I still prefere the 911TT or evem a 911C2S. Performance is not everything

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