Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - evo Car of the Year 2007: Honda Civic Type-R... - Page2

Nov 17, 2007 11:07:52 PM

baron: Junior; Loc:; Posts: 74, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 3, 2003; Reply to: Boxster Coupe GTS

Re: evo Car of the Year 2007: Audi R8...

It will be great if you could post the comments on the Gallardo SL as well. I am very surprised it came so low relative to the others. I seen many previous articles in which the Gallardo SL compared very favorably against the GT3 RS. Wonder what criteria EVO uses to judge and rank these cars?

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Nov 18, 2007 9:44:36 AM

venven: Newbie; Loc: italy; Posts: 7, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 1, 2007; Reply to: Targa Tim

Re: evo Car of the Year 2007: The Result...

Quote:
Targa Tim said:
Will be interesting to read how a Civic Type-R will be better than a Gallardo??

Agree with you!!!

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Nov 18, 2007 11:57:59 AM

Boxster Coupe GTS: Rennteam Master; Loc: UK , United Kingdom; Posts: 5886, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 23, 2005; Reply to: Boxster Coupe GTS

evo Car of the Year 2007: Gallardo Superleggera...

7th Lambo Gallardo Superleggera (88.2)

"The Superleggera really should have been slugging it out with the other supercars for top honours, so why is it sandwiched between a Honda and a Nissan? The short answer is the brake pedal, which is quite the nastiest, snatchiest thing I've ever experienced on a high-performance car."

The Gallardo feels like an old-school supercar, and more than a little bit intimidating: awkward ergonomics, hopeless visibility, proper supercar architecture. It sounds savage; accelerates on an explosion of torque. Then there's the slightly clunky transmission (despite the evocatively blipped downchanges), the stodgy steering (meaty if you're feeling generous) and the general feeling of weightiness (compared with the Ferrari in particular). The one thing it doesn't feel is "superleggera" or indeed, as Catchpole says, much of a step up from the regular Gallardo. Metcalfe reckons they should have made it rear drive and knocked another chunk of weight off in the process.

"Great on those moments when it does click," says. Ev. "Shame it leaves you feeling like a learner for the other 90 per cent of the time." Bovingdon is equally withering: "The brakes just kill it stone dead for me."

Measen says it was really hard work in the wet: he almost put it behind the Mini and 350Z on his scoresheet (a couple of us did just that). "But when you get the right bit of road and drive it how it wants to be driven - hard and brutal, brain out - then you don't notice the lack of finesse in the brakes and gearshift. I like the idea of it, and they've really worked to get the weight down, and I like the grittiness of it, but it feels a long way behind the Ferrari."

And yet the Gallardo still has a hell of a lot going for it. Drawing on huge mechanical grip and the primeval force of its knee-trembling V10 engine, it simply eats distance. On track, where you can be really brutal with it, it comes alive. It sounds menacing; its styling is bravingly pure and aggressive. It couldn't be anything other than a Lamborghini.

"Whoever signed the brakes off wants shooting," says Barker, who still scored it highly. "It's a chunky little supercar that drives like it looks - beefy controls and absolutely locked on to the road."

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Nov 18, 2007 7:22:41 PM

baron: Junior; Loc:; Posts: 74, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 3, 2003; Reply to: Boxster Coupe GTS

Re: evo Car of the Year 2007: Gallardo Superleggera...

Thanks a lot for posting the comments on the Gallard SL. I am assuming that the ceramic brakes were tested, which had been known to hard to modulate on the street. Wonder if the results would be better with the standard steel brakes.

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Nov 19, 2007 6:03:05 PM

SciFrog: Rennteam VIP; Loc: USA , United States; Posts: 9870, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 15, 2005; Reply to: baron

Re: evo Car of the Year 2007: Gallardo Superlegger

DBS got really trashed, although it is heavy and expensive. Do you have its comments?

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Nov 19, 2007 8:53:31 PM

BMCG: Co-Pilot; Loc:; Posts: 230, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 28, 2003; Reply to: SciFrog

Re: evo Car of the Year 2007: Gallardo Superlegger

eCOTY winners...just to underscore a point:

1998 - Porsche 996 Series 1
1999 - Porsche 996 GT3 Mk1
2000 - Porsche 996 Turbo
2001 - Pagani Zonda
2002 - Honda NSX Type R (996 C4S Runner Up)
2003 - Porsche 996 GT3 Mk2
2004 - Porsche 997 Carrera S
2005 - Ford GT
2006 - Ferrari 599 GTB (997 GT3 Runner Up)
2007 - Porsche 997 GT3 RS

Thus, 6 winners and 2 runners up over the 10 yrs in which Harry and the lads have been producing the world's premiere driving magazine...

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Nov 19, 2007 9:14:04 PM

ResB: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Yorkshire, where roads are twisty... , United Kingdom; Posts: 2858, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 19, 2006; Reply to: BMCG

Re: evo Car of the Year 2007: Gallardo Superlegger

60% success rate then, so they can't be biased. Porsche must just make great "sports" cars is all

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Nov 19, 2007 11:39:35 PM

Boxster Coupe GTS: Rennteam Master; Loc: UK , United Kingdom; Posts: 5886, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 23, 2005; Reply to: Boxster Coupe GTS

evo Car of the Year 2007: Aston Martin DBS...

12th Aston Martin DBS

"With tension ratcheting up over which car would be banging the eCoty gong all the way home, there was little doubt which would be sloping off with the wooden spoon. We'd nodded the DBS through on the basis that a) most recent Astons have been pretty darn good, and b) this is ostensibly the replacement for the flagship Vanquish, which we love deeply. But whichever of us was driving the DBS, it quickly became apparent that c) it's not one of Aston's best efforts, and d) whatever it is, it's no Vanquish replacement.

In fact as the votes are cast there's a remarkable symmetry in the comments of the judges. Love the engine, love the gearbox and the brakes; hate pretty much everything else.

"It feels every one of its 510 horsepower," days Jethro. "In fact it feels just about the quickest thing here." "And it makes one of the best sounds, too," says Green. "Absolute quality. And the gearbox has a lovely, sweet shift, and the brakes are really strong and fill you with confidence. But that's about it..."

OK, we're not fans of the pumped-up DB9 look, but if you're going to add chin spoilers and skirts, bonnet vents and a carbonfibre rear diffuser, then dynamically you've got to deliver a properly taut, keen and communicative driving experience. As Harry says, "The messages are confused. It looks like a modern interpretation of DB9, ultra-sporty, then you get inside and it all goes classical. And the handling's classical too. So you wonder who it's aimed at. James Bond's dad, perhaps?"

To a man we hate the remote, unconnected feel to the steering and the out-of-sorts damping, while several were unsettled by the tendency in the wet for the DBS to suddenly wag its tail at inopportune moments. "More cruiser than supercar," says Ev. "Pleasant at seven or eight tenths, out of its comfort zone beyond that." Then there's the list price, which takes some swallowing. And if the exterior's in dubious taste, the interior's an incoherent jumble of materials.

We come away from eCoty hoping that it's just a stopgap and that the real Vanquish replacement will be a worth flagship for Aston Martin. Unless, of course, Aston's engineers are already working on an improved version..."

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Nov 20, 2007 12:16:24 AM

nberry: Rennteam VIP; Loc: La Jolla, USA , United States; Posts: 13737, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: BMCG

Re: evo Car of the Year 2007: Gallardo Superlegger

Quote:
BMCG said:
eCOTY winners...just to underscore a point:

1998 - Porsche 996 Series 1
1999 - Porsche 996 GT3 Mk1
2000 - Porsche 996 Turbo
2001 - Pagani Zonda
2002 - Honda NSX Type R (996 C4S Runner Up)
2003 - Porsche 996 GT3 Mk2
2004 - Porsche 997 Carrera S
2005 - Ford GT
2006 - Ferrari 599 GTB (997 GT3 Runner Up)
2007 - Porsche 997 GT3 RS

Thus, 6 winners and 2 runners up over the 10 yrs in which Harry and the lads have been producing the world's premiere driving magazine...

It is as I thought.

Did Porsche have a new model in 2001 and 2005? I do not recall any.

EVO's bias could not be clearer.

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Nov 20, 2007 4:26:10 AM

BMCG: Co-Pilot; Loc:; Posts: 230, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 28, 2003; Reply to: nberry

Re: evo Car of the Year 2007: Gallardo Superlegger

Yup EVO likes cars that immerse the driver in a visceral envelope...

PORSCHE There is no Substitute.

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Nov 20, 2007 3:43:33 PM

boytronic: Veteran; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 961, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 5, 2005; Reply to: BMCG

Re: evo Car of the Year 2007: Gallardo Superlegger

I think Evo's results are suspect after watching Top Gear on Sunday, where the new Civic Type R was slated and samefully beaten in a race by the older version...

If they can have such contrast with Evo on one car then what would it be like on the rest?!

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Nov 20, 2007 5:22:58 PM

BMCG: Co-Pilot; Loc:; Posts: 230, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 28, 2003; Reply to: boytronic

Re: evo Car of the Year 2007: Gallardo Superlegger

Ahh to give credence to Top Gear's opinion is to favour ribald entertainment over considered judgment.

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Nov 20, 2007 7:01:14 PM

gangajas: Senior; Loc: Spain , Spain; Posts: 510, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 8, 2004; Reply to: boytronic

Re: evo Car of the Year 2007: Gallardo Superlegger

Quote:
boytronic said:
I think Evo's results are suspect after watching Top Gear on Sunday, where the new Civic Type R was slated and samefully beaten in a race by the older version...

If they can have such contrast with Evo on one car then what would it be like on the rest?!

The Japanese Civic Type R (tested by evo) is much, much better than the European Civic Type R (tested by Top Gear)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZVtFPnIZ6Q

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Nov 20, 2007 7:05:41 PM

Boxster Coupe GTS: Rennteam Master; Loc: UK , United Kingdom; Posts: 5886, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 23, 2005; Reply to: Boxster Coupe GTS

evo Car of the Year 2007: Honda Civic Type-R...

* Honda Civic Type-R (Japan-spec)

"There's little sense making a comparison with the UK Civic Type-R. Better to look upon it as a four-door NSX-R, for it possesses much of the supercar's spirit..."

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Nov 20, 2007 7:21:15 PM

Turbo4ever: Senior; Loc: HK , Hong Kong; Posts: 723, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 13, 2007; Reply to: Boxster Coupe GTS

Re: evo Car of the Year 2007: Honda Civic Type-R...

Quote:
Boxster Coupe GTS said:
* Honda Civic Type-R (Japan-spec)

"There's little sense making a comparison with the UK Civic Type-R. Better to look upon it as a four-door NSX-R, for it possesses much of the supercar's spirit..."

I have driven this car in Japan and it was awesome, the racing enigne is so freaking good for that price.

Also wondering why NO Turbo on the list??

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Nov 20, 2007 7:30:58 PM

Boxster Coupe GTS: Rennteam Master; Loc: UK , United Kingdom; Posts: 5886, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 23, 2005; Reply to: Boxster Coupe GTS

evo Car of the Year 2007: Honda Civic Type-R...

* Honda Civic Type-R (Japan-spec)

"I take the Civic first. From the outset, the contrast with the UK car is marked. Gone is the slightly leaden feeling in the axles, replaced by the sense of a car that's up on tiptoes. The front grips and turns, then the back comes into play, stepping into line or edging out if you want, just like the original Integra or, bizarrely, and E30 M3. Each corner of the suspension is working independently, yet the whole moves as one, giving you the confidence to drive harder and harder into corners and throw it over crests and cambers, certain that it will be absolutely with you. You have to trust it though, because the brake pedal is very firm and the steering lacks just a touch of feel around the straight-ahead, making you wonder just for the blink of an eye whether it's going to grip or not."

The engine has to be worked harder than anything else here, though, and on the mixture of second- and third-gear corners it can be a tricky balance. Drop out of the zone, an LED dies on the dashboard and the whole car seems to sag. It's strangely dispiriting, like all the fight's gone out of it. So you attack corners like you're in a Touring Car, the firm ride, racing white paint and slightly sparse interior doing nothing to dispel the image. It's a fast and frenzied experience and, as Dickie says, "as Japanese as the Ferrari is Italian..."

Engine: In-line four-cyl, 1998cc, 16v
Max power: 222bhp @ 8000rpm
Max torque: 158lb ft @ 6100rpm
0 - 60mph: Sub-6.0sec (claimed)
Top Speed: 150mph (claimed)
Price: Pounds22,995

Honda-Civic-Type-R_Japan-spec_evo-road-test_link

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Nov 21, 2007 2:31:24 AM

DavidSF: Senior; Loc:; Posts: 525, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 7, 2003; Reply to: nberry

Re: evo Car of the Year 2007: Gallardo Superlegger

Quote:
nberry said:
Quote:
BMCG said:
eCOTY winners...just to underscore a point:

1998 - Porsche 996 Series 1
1999 - Porsche 996 GT3 Mk1
2000 - Porsche 996 Turbo
2001 - Pagani Zonda
2002 - Honda NSX Type R (996 C4S Runner Up)
2003 - Porsche 996 GT3 Mk2
2004 - Porsche 997 Carrera S
2005 - Ford GT
2006 - Ferrari 599 GTB (997 GT3 Runner Up)
2007 - Porsche 997 GT3 RS

Thus, 6 winners and 2 runners up over the 10 yrs in which Harry and the lads have been producing the world's premiere driving magazine...

It is as I thought. Did Porsche have a new model in 2001 and 2005? I do not recall any.

EVO's bias could not be clearer.

LOL. Right Nick! When EVO disagrees with you, they are biased. When they agree with you, they are correct.

David

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Nov 21, 2007 7:49:49 AM

Just_me: Co-Pilot; Loc: EU; Posts: 170, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 16, 2004; Reply to: DavidSF

Re: evo Car of the Year 2007: Gallardo Superlegger

Would nice to ready their comments on the M3 and CLK63 BS?

Member Boxster Coupe GTS , are you there?

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Nov 21, 2007 9:45:58 AM

ChrisB: Newbie; Loc: France; Posts: 13, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2006; Reply to: Just_me

Re: evo Car of the Year 2007: Gallardo Superlegger

Six Porsches have won their car of the year, but many have scored badly too - Boxster, BoxsterS, 996 911 mk2, Cayman S, Cayman, and the Turbo didn't even make the final last year. Earlier this year they were not shy in saying how much the R8 was better than a 911 C4S.
They obviously like sporty 911s, but is that a sign of bias or a sign that it's a good car?

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Nov 21, 2007 2:34:18 PM

Marwan Arakji: Senior; Loc: Lebanon , Lebanon; Posts: 572, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 11, 2006; Reply to: Georges G. Hayek

Re: evo Car of the Year 2007: The Result...

i read the article in details, and it seems the RS beat the scuderia mainly on price... the RS is an AMAZING car, and the ONLY porsche I'd ever buy (owned a 997 C2S Cab. till a few weeks ago), but the Scuderia brings SO MUCH more to the table...

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Nov 22, 2007 4:35:59 AM

Grant: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Denver, CO , United States; Posts: 12586, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2002; Reply to: nberry

Re: evo Car of the Year 2007: Gallardo Superlegger

Quote:
nberry said:
It is as I thought. Did Porsche have a new model in 2001 and 2005? I do not recall any.

EVO's bias could not be clearer.

996 MkII (3.6L) in 2001 and Cayman S in 2005, I think...

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Nov 22, 2007 10:32:10 AM

zzboba: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Germany; Posts: 3115, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 8, 2002; Reply to: Boxster Coupe GTS

Re: evo Car of the Year 2007: The Result...

Quite suprising for me: AM DBS on last, CLK 63 Black at fourth; in front of M3 and Gallo SL.

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Nov 22, 2007 10:35:57 AM

reginos: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Nicosia , Cyprus; Posts: 12130, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 20, 2005; Reply to: zzboba

Re: evo Car of the Year 2007: The Result...

Quote:
zzboba said:
Quite suprising for me: AM DBS on last, CLK 63 Black at fourth; in front of M3 and Gallo SL.

EVO vs Pre-conceived ideas!!

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Nov 22, 2007 11:14:03 PM

WBH: Expert; Loc: CA; Posts: 1963, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 2, 2004; Reply to: zzboba

Re: evo Car of the Year 2007: The Result...

Quote:
zzboba said:
Quite suprising for me: AM DBS on last, CLK 63 Black at fourth; in front of M3 and Gallo SL.

Am not surprised.....

Have briefly driven CLK63BS and GSL to realize each is a POS from an engineering/driver's standpoint....was incredulous that press seems to like these cars so much....

Have driven DB9 enough to be skeptical re: anything from AM....

BMW is a co. much favored by the press.....but struggles w/basics like brakes; robust non-Luddite gearboxes....and tq....and non-exploding motors....doubt M3 will change much....nor would the BestBuy ricers/employees want otherwise.....

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Nov 23, 2007 9:48:06 AM

BC: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Cape Town , South Africa; Posts: 2586, Gallery; Registered on: May 19, 2005; Reply to: nberry

Re: evo Car of the Year 2007: Gallardo Superlegger

Quote:
nberry said:
Quote:
BMCG said:
eCOTY winners...just to underscore a point:

1998 - Porsche 996 Series 1
1999 - Porsche 996 GT3 Mk1
2000 - Porsche 996 Turbo
2001 - Pagani Zonda
2002 - Honda NSX Type R (996 C4S Runner Up)
2003 - Porsche 996 GT3 Mk2
2004 - Porsche 997 Carrera S
2005 - Ford GT
2006 - Ferrari 599 GTB (997 GT3 Runner Up)
2007 - Porsche 997 GT3 RS

Thus, 6 winners and 2 runners up over the 10 yrs in which Harry and the lads have been producing the world's premiere driving magazine...

It is as I thought. Did Porsche have a new model in 2001 and 2005? I do not recall any.

EVO's bias could not be clearer.

Your bias could not be clearer too

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Nov 24, 2007 5:38:04 AM

Jeff (in SF): Pilot; Loc: SF, CA, USA , United States; Posts: 340, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 13, 2003; Reply to: nberry

Re: evo Car of the Year 2007: Gallardo Superlegger

I suspect you're just stirring things up as we all appreciate. Consider though, the Scuderia is also a new model this year so folks shouldn't complain that it's not an apples to apples comparison (i.e. new vs. old car tech). And isn't it the Scud supposed to represent the pinnacle of Ferrari's road car technology? What happened?

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Nov 24, 2007 10:59:17 AM

Boxster Coupe GTS: Rennteam Master; Loc: UK , United Kingdom; Posts: 5886, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 23, 2005; Reply to: Boxster Coupe GTS

evo Car of the Year 2007: BMW M3...

5th BMW M3 (90.9)

"The latest M3 hasn't been met with universal adoration. Maybe we just need to forget the E30 M3 (BMW obviously has). Maybe we've focused too much on it's engine, but terrific though that V8 is, it's down at tarmac level that the real magic lies. True, compared with old M3 CS, it's not so instantly beguiling; you have to work at it to discover its true depths, but it's a car of great ability with a chassis that's wonderfully compliant and exploitable. This car, more than any other, crept up on us during the week, and it would doubtless be a great car to live with, being able to play the GT every bit as well as the backroad-racer. It occurred to me it does everything the DBS sets out to do - it just does it better, faster and more enjoyanly at less than a third of the price."

"It's a Kimi Raikkonen sort of car," says Viv. "A bit pale to look at compared with an RS4 or C63, nothing much detectable in the way of personality, but cool under pressure and truly rapid when it counts." Catchpole is rather more effusive. "I've had a couple of drives in this that were among the best of the whole week," he says. "The M3 really has blown me away."

"The more I drive it the more impressed I am," says Meaden. "It just does everything you want a car to do. It ticks so many boxes. The stability and traction systems, the switchable dampers, everything works really well. But it shows how mainstream M have become when you see the AMG Merc..."

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Nov 24, 2007 11:20:04 AM

Boxster Coupe GTS: Rennteam Master; Loc: UK , United Kingdom; Posts: 5886, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 23, 2005; Reply to: Boxster Coupe GTS

evo Car of the Year 2007: Merc CLK63 AMG Black...

4th Mercedes CLK63 AMG Black (91.4)

"Yes indeedy, the CLK 'Black' has certainly made an impression. "What a soundtrack," says Vivian, "and indeed what a car." If the CLK hadn't been slightly hamstrung by its auto gearbox and dull-witted paddle-shift, it could have been snapping right at the heels of the top three. The gearbox is the resolutely Mercedes part of the package, the rest is pure AMG, and what an intoxicating thing it is."

"Brilliant engine, brilliant chassis, and you can play with it, be a real hooligan if you want," says Green. "Just a fantastic front-engined, rear-drive sports car," says Barker. "And its engine has something that all the others bar the Aston lack, and that's torque. The Merc is what I wish my Capri was like..." and at this point he starts staring wistfully into the middle distance.

"Love it," says Bovingdon. "The way it looks, the way it sounds. If it had a really good manual 'box, who knows where it might have come..." Meaden says he's never driven a Merc that feels like this. "It just feels so small and pointy, the closest car in feel to the 911." And Metcalfe echoes: "I never imagined we'd have a Mercedes you can buy at a dealership feel like this. You'd smile every time you turned the key. It's a proper drivers' car..."

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Nov 30, 2007 5:45:29 AM

DavidSF: Senior; Loc:; Posts: 525, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 7, 2003; Reply to: BC

Re: evo Car of the Year 2007: Gallardo Superlegger

Quote:
BC911 said:
Quote:
nberry said:
Quote:
BMCG said:
eCOTY winners...just to underscore a point:

1998 - Porsche 996 Series 1
1999 - Porsche 996 GT3 Mk1
2000 - Porsche 996 Turbo
2001 - Pagani Zonda
2002 - Honda NSX Type R (996 C4S Runner Up)
2003 - Porsche 996 GT3 Mk2
2004 - Porsche 997 Carrera S
2005 - Ford GT
2006 - Ferrari 599 GTB (997 GT3 Runner Up)
2007 - Porsche 997 GT3 RS

Thus, 6 winners and 2 runners up over the 10 yrs in which Harry and the lads have been producing the world's premiere driving magazine...

It is as I thought. Did Porsche have a new model in 2001 and 2005? I do not recall any.

EVO's bias could not be clearer.

Your bias could not be clearer too

LOL. Yes, I'm sure Nick thought EVO had it right last year!

David

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Re: evo Car of the Year 2007: Audi R8...

Re: evo Car of the Year 2007: The Result...

evo Car of the Year 2007: Gallardo Superleggera...

Re: evo Car of the Year 2007: Gallardo Superleggera...

Re: evo Car of the Year 2007: Gallardo Superlegger

Re: evo Car of the Year 2007: Gallardo Superlegger

Re: evo Car of the Year 2007: Gallardo Superlegger

evo Car of the Year 2007: Aston Martin DBS...

Re: evo Car of the Year 2007: Gallardo Superlegger

Re: evo Car of the Year 2007: Gallardo Superlegger

Re: evo Car of the Year 2007: Gallardo Superlegger

Re: evo Car of the Year 2007: Gallardo Superlegger

Re: evo Car of the Year 2007: Gallardo Superlegger

evo Car of the Year 2007: Honda Civic Type-R...

Re: evo Car of the Year 2007: Honda Civic Type-R...

evo Car of the Year 2007: Honda Civic Type-R...

Re: evo Car of the Year 2007: Gallardo Superlegger

Re: evo Car of the Year 2007: Gallardo Superlegger

Re: evo Car of the Year 2007: Gallardo Superlegger

Re: evo Car of the Year 2007: The Result...

Re: evo Car of the Year 2007: Gallardo Superlegger

Re: evo Car of the Year 2007: The Result...

Re: evo Car of the Year 2007: The Result...

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