Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: 997 4S or 2S - Help required!! - Page2

Oct 29, 2007 1:38:13 PM

SWHITE: Newbie; Loc: UK; Posts: 3, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 29, 2007

997 4S or 2S - Help required!!

Hi everyone,
I found your forum details through Google - so this is my first posting!
Just to explain - I have just ordered my first ever Porsche - New Carrera 4S, Facelift model, so I should take delivery August 2008, although from reading some of your comments I expect a delay. I have recently read a number of articles comparing the 2s and 4S and it has got me thinking - am I making the right choice chosing a 4S over a 2S??? Can anyone please help me because I'm worried I'm gonig to be spending an extra 6K for no real reason!

I am currentl driving an Astra 1.4 - so whatever my choice its going to be a massive diffrence and I cannot wait!

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Oct 29, 2007 1:51:19 PM

Italo: Veteran; Loc: UK , United Kingdom; Posts: 1055, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 29, 2007; Reply to: SWHITE

Re: 997 4S or 2S - Help required!!

C4S looks much more better than C2S (xtra 22mm), also better grid when coming out of corners. If you are tracking your car go for C2S much more fun

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Oct 29, 2007 2:02:14 PM

cibergypsy: Pilot; Loc: FL, USA , United States; Posts: 366, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 21, 2006; Reply to: Italo

Re: 997 4S or 2S - Help required!!

Last Saturday a guy in a 993 Turbo that is an AWD car spun out ahead of me when attending DE. AWD is not without its own limits. I never spun out on my 3.2L Carrera I use for the track and was even able to outpace a black 993 Turbo on the corners even though, of course, he overtook me on the straights, only to be caught again by me in the corners. BTW, I have street tires on my car.

Therefore, go for the C2S and save some money over the C4S that you can use for other options. I did exactly that when buying my 997S and used the money for the Aerokit and also added an X51 Powerkit.

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Oct 29, 2007 2:44:02 PM

The Groom: Expert; Loc: EU; Posts: 1779, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 23, 2005; Reply to: cibergypsy

Re: 997 4S or 2S - Help required!!

If this is your first rear-engine car, go the safer 4S route. The 996 and 997 are much safer than previous generations (even w/o ESP/PSM), but the rear-engine dynamics still need to time to get used to (especially if coming from a slow car). The AWD helps in that regard since the front wheels can pull you out of some unexpected situations.

However, neither AWD, nor PSM is a be-all, end-all of active safety. Keep that in mind when driving.

At least, you cannot go wrong with either option.

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Oct 29, 2007 2:51:52 PM

bridggar: Veteran; Loc: UK , United Kingdom; Posts: 1223, Gallery; Registered on: May 25, 2007; Reply to: The Groom

Re: 997 4S or 2S - Help required!!

FWIW - I had a 996 C4S and have just got a used 997 C2S. Aside from the marked improvement in performance, the handling is so much more involved and fun in the C2S. When going for the C4S previously, depreciation was a major factor (ran the car for 18 months & only lost Pounds4K). That's one of the reasons why this time, I went used. (all 997s lose much more than 996 did - there's so many more of them)

I am more than happy with my C2S and wouldn't swap it for C4S. (even for the same deal)

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Oct 29, 2007 3:08:55 PM

Adam2S: Senior; Loc: UK , United Kingdom; Posts: 745, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 19, 2007; Reply to: SWHITE

Re: 997 4S or 2S - Help required!!

Quote:
SWHITE said:
I am currentl driving an Astra 1.4

Just won the lottery?

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Oct 29, 2007 3:17:11 PM

SWHITE: Newbie; Loc: UK; Posts: 3, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 29, 2007; Reply to: Adam2S

Re: 997 4S or 2S - Help required!!

don't knock it - its a beast!

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Oct 29, 2007 3:25:53 PM

Italo: Veteran; Loc: UK , United Kingdom; Posts: 1055, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 29, 2007; Reply to: SWHITE

Re: 997 4S or 2S - Help required!!

Quote:
SWHITE said:
don't knock it - its a beast!

yeah a nitrous-beast

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Oct 29, 2007 4:02:37 PM

jjl: Junior; Loc: NYC; Posts: 51, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 14, 2005; Reply to: Italo

Re: 997 4S or 2S - Help required!!

Before driving them, i thought i would certainly pick the C4S, but having just driven the C2S over the weekend, not so sure. The C2S grips like all get-out and the steering is so precise and quick i can't imagine the C4 could be better, the C2S was SO much fun. the C2 is also the original configuration, for what that's worth. The only way to decide would be to drive both and decide..i'm sure your dealer would let you take out one of each to help you make your decision.

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Oct 29, 2007 4:30:17 PM

Pink Panther: Pilot; Loc: UK , United Kingdom; Posts: 363, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 4, 2005; Reply to: jjl

Re: 997 4S or 2S - Help required!!

Having had both in cab form I would pick a 2S over a 4S just for the purer feel through the steering. Both are great cars and lots of fun. The 4S leans towards a GT whereas the 2S is a more focused sports car.

On the other hand, on a wet day like today I am happier pushing the 4S. If I had the 2S I'd be holding back some.

Perhaps you need both?

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Oct 29, 2007 5:13:30 PM

senator: Junior; Loc:; Posts: 127, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 19, 2004; Reply to: Pink Panther

Re: 997 4S or 2S - Help required!!

SWHITE, again I've had both in Coupe and Cabrio. I actually prefer the C2S but just picked up my second C4S last week just because I like the way it looks. Plus on a wet morning like today it's just that little bit more secure.

One other thing to consider is that I have one of the first month production slots on a facelift car for 2008 and I'm told that the first year's production of the facelift might only be C2s.

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Oct 29, 2007 5:13:45 PM

Ferdie: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Europe , Germany; Posts: 8234, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 2, 2004; Reply to: Pink Panther

Re: 997 4S or 2S - Help required!!

Quote:
Pink Panther said:
The 4S leans towards a GT whereas the 2S is a more focused sports car.

Indeed the difference between those two cars is their setup, apart from the stereotype difference between std. and AWD models Porsche has given both cars a different character. The 4S has less understeer and has an even more compliant character. The 911's inherent characteristics have been toned down in the AWD model to suit a slightly different customer group.

If I were you I'd request a testdrive in both, even if you are not experienced with sportscar you should be able to sense the everyday differences of these two models.

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Oct 29, 2007 5:23:16 PM

easy_rider911: Rennteam VIP; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 22190, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 8, 2004; Reply to: Pink Panther

Re: 997 4S or 2S - Help required!!

I've owned a 997 C2S for 11 months now. It was my first 911 and my first Porsche in fact. I have found the handling to be simply remarkable but then again, I have -20mm sports suspension with rear LSD. It's a handling 'masterpiece'.

If I had the chance to do it all over again, I would still get a 997 C2S with -20mm sports suspension, sports exhaust and sport chrono but this time round, I would get PCCBs and X51 Carrera S powerkit installed from the factory.

I love the fact that all the power and 62% of the weight is at the back. The steering is beautifully light and agile. The steering talks continuously about what is going on under the tyres. I've driven the 997 C4S on various occasions - I find the steering heavy, the car doesn't feel as light and agile. The authentic 911 experience is a RWD one. The AWD may have been needed on a 996 but IMO it just isn't needed on a 997. It's more than safe enough.

If you are worried about safety, the biggest instrument is your own discipline. If you can control that, even a GT3 is fine.

IMHO get the car you crave, your ability will grow to match it. Don't take baby steps which you will soon outgrow and regret within 6-9 months of ownership. You'll want to stretch out sooner than you think!

Best of luck - enjoy this deliberation process - it's all part of the fun!

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Oct 29, 2007 5:30:11 PM

wtsnet: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Bath, UK; Posts: 2430, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 19, 2004; Reply to: Ferdie

Re: 997 4S or 2S - Help required!!

Whatever your choice, you're going to probably have a few things you'd want to change for your Porsche No.2.

4WD - it'll probably give you greater confidence (coming from a low-powered FWD Astra) to enable you to enjoy the car, particularly in the cold wet weather we get in the UK. You can always get a C2 for your next one!
Hey, I came from a 1.6 Golf to my Boxster. It's a very different experience!

Welcome to the board BTW

Have to say, I've just Read Easy's comment, and actually I tend to agree. You just have to be restrained with your inputs until you get used to it. It's a preference thing I guess.

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Oct 29, 2007 5:35:27 PM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: Pink Panther

Re: 997 4S or 2S - Help required!!

I'd say nix the C4S; I like to categorize the car as one built by Porsche for markets in Norway, Denmark, Sweden, etc., etc.; you know..., places where snow's a fact of life much of the year.

I also like to misconceive

that on a track a C4S is faster than a C2S only when it's raining.

C4S has less steering feel, it's easy to sacrifice that for a snow-and-ice safety factor.

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Oct 29, 2007 6:02:24 PM

easy_rider911: Rennteam VIP; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 22190, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 8, 2004; Reply to: MMD

Re: 997 4S or 2S - Help required!!

BTW Pounds6k will pay for a lot of the essential options...

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Oct 29, 2007 6:25:21 PM

AUM: Veteran; Loc: Germany; Posts: 1203, Gallery; Registered on: May 2, 2006; Reply to: easy_rider911

Re: 997 4S or 2S - Help required!!

Quote:
easy_rider911 said:
I've owned a 997 C2S for 11 months now. It was my first 911 and my first Porsche in fact. I have found the handling to be simply remarkable but then again, I have -20mm sports suspension with rear LSD. It's a handling 'masterpiece'.

If I had the chance to do it all over again, I would still get a 997 C2S with -20mm sports suspension, sports exhaust and sport chrono but this time round, I would get PCCBs and X51 Carrera S powerkit installed from the factory.

I love the fact that all the power and 62% of the weight is at the back. The steering is beautifully light and agile. The steering talks continuously about what is going on under the tyres. I've driven the 997 C4S on various occasions - I find the steering heavy, the car doesn't feel as light and agile. The authentic 911 experience is a RWD one. The AWD may have been needed on a 996 but IMO it just isn't needed on a 997. It's more than safe enough.

If you are worried about safety, the biggest instrument is your own discipline. If you can control that, even a GT3 is fine.

IMHO get the car you crave, your ability will grow to match it. Don't take baby steps which you will soon outgrow and regret within 6-9 months of ownership. You'll want to stretch out sooner than you think!

Best of luck - enjoy this deliberation process - it's all part of the fun!

Good advice.

Get the C2S with -20mm supension, powerkit and sports exhaust (PCCBs are expensive and not essential) and you will have a car that you will grow into and enjoy for much longer than the less inspiring C4S.

Porsches are for stirring the soul.

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Oct 29, 2007 8:49:53 PM

SWHITE: Newbie; Loc: UK; Posts: 3, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 29, 2007; Reply to: AUM

Re: 997 4S or 2S - Help required!!

Great advice - many thanks.
I'm going to speak to my dealer and test drive both...ironicaly I have only driven a 2s and wanted to order a 4S becasue i thought it would be a better car - I love the slightly wider look, but I had loads of fun in the 2S - slightly concerned that I have had to postpone my order in light of the Facelift model and Porsche may not even run the 4S production in 2008!!! Cheers guys!
Stuart.

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Oct 29, 2007 8:54:12 PM

The Groom: Expert; Loc: EU; Posts: 1779, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 23, 2005; Reply to: SWHITE

Re: 997 4S or 2S - Help required!!

For what it's worth, I believe the AWD system is going to change next year. The 2008 C4S will feel different from the 2007.

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Oct 29, 2007 9:03:06 PM

easy_rider911: Rennteam VIP; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 22190, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 8, 2004; Reply to: The Groom

Re: 997 4S or 2S - Help required!!

The C4S may be 44mm wider overall at the back but that's only 22mm on each side. I think you would find it quite difficult to actually SEE the 22mm width difference.

I remember well all the threads here on Rennteam when the AWD 997 was first launched. There were so many photos with black lines drawn on them trying to show the width difference. In the end, those comparison photos failed to show the 22mm difference because they depended upon how the photos were taken EXCEPT for photos of the C2S actually superimposed on top of the C4S. Only then could one see the difference.

It wouldn't surprise me if the AWD system from the TT found its way onto the Carrera AWD system when the facelift is launched....

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Oct 29, 2007 9:04:36 PM

easy_rider911: Rennteam VIP; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 22190, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 8, 2004; Reply to: easy_rider911

Re: 997 4S or 2S - Help required!!

BTW the X51 Carrera S Powerkit includes the XLF Porsche Sports Exhaust...

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Oct 30, 2007 12:14:14 AM

da duke: Newbie; Loc: Queenstown , New Zealand; Posts: 44, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 3, 2006; Reply to: easy_rider911

Re: 997 4S or 2S - Help required!!

I have tracked all of the 997 range. Sure the C2 is a great track car and buying the C4 for tracking isnt worth the extra money.

BUT if you arent going to track, then the 997 C4S is a car that Porsche got right. It is a huge improvement over previous series. Those who have only driven 996 and 993 C4's arent really qualified to comment.

For a road car the 997 C4S is remarkable for its grip and precision and power. Sure if you want slide the rear end out like the good old days of Porsche, buy a C2 and turn off the PSM, but if you want extroidinary control in everyday situations go keep your original order.

If you wait for the 08 facelift you will probably get the new 4wd system that the 997 turbo introduced and the new direct injection AND probably a Ipod connection that works!

Good Luck and welcome to a great club!

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Oct 30, 2007 12:20:24 AM

da duke: Newbie; Loc: Queenstown , New Zealand; Posts: 44, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 3, 2006; Reply to: da duke

Re: 997 4S or 2S - Help required!!

Sorry read PASM not PSM. I didnt review my reply before posting

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Oct 30, 2007 12:31:33 AM

Lars997: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: South , Germany; Posts: 9448, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 8, 2002; Reply to: da duke

Re: 997 4S or 2S - Help required!!

Go for the C2 if you live in the UK. The asphalt has enough grip over there. Completly different story in the US, where they use a different surface on the street. If it is a bit wet in the US you feel like in Zermatt after a snowfalling night.

The C2 has enough grip and the PSE will do the rest. Further on you have a trunk which gives enough space for a small trolley, a sport bag and a garment bag.

Last not least, you need one litre less fuel and have more (i tryed it) feelable power.

From the optic, the fat body is not everybodies favorit, as some man prefer slim some other more 'Ruben' Ladies...

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Oct 30, 2007 2:15:13 AM

Dan L: Expert; Loc: Santa Barbara, CA , United States; Posts: 1957, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 2, 2006; Reply to: Lars997

Re: 997 4S or 2S - Help required!!

As one of the old heads here who has been driving 911s in 4 different decades, I would say that you would be served well with the 2WD instead of the 4WD. Unfortunately, so many of you have waited years before buying your first Porsche so you have no experience whatsoever with a rear engine rear drive car for the most part. As a result you immediately doubt your capabilities with a 2WD and are thinking that "a Porsche with extra training wheels" may keep you out of trouble. Keep in mind that during the periods of poor weather it's the jeeps and other 4WD cars I see in the ditches instead of regular cars. You are lead into a false sense of security with 4WD. Today's "911s" are nothing like the 911s that you dreamed about as a kid to someday own. The amount of computer control and vast amount of rubber now found on the rear wheels makes it like day and night.

What I would suggest is that you bu yourself an older 911 (something like a 1984-89 Carrera 3.2) to learn how those 911s handled. By the time your 997 arrives you'll be that much more qualified to push that car around. With 4WD you are paying every day with added weight, less boot space, and more to be maintained and more to go wrong. Perhaps you could drive the Carrera 3.2 until the 997 facelift appears in the MY09 period.

Dan

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Oct 30, 2007 3:10:03 AM

Silver Bullet: Veteran; Loc: Canada; Posts: 1126, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 24, 2004; Reply to: Dan L

Re: 997 4S or 2S - Help required!!

A 911 has no real need for the extra traction of AWD because by it's design - engine over the rear drive axle - gives it INCREDIBLE traction.

In addition, no other car on the plant has the steering feel of the C2.

A C4 is not needed, and diminishes the characteristics of the 911 that make it so unique and special.

If you plan to drive it in the winter, then get a C4, but otherwise, C2.

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Oct 30, 2007 5:10:34 AM

Haku: Pilot; Loc: TN , United States; Posts: 481, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 6, 2005; Reply to: SWHITE

Re: 997 4S or 2S - Help required!!

I'm sure you'll love either. For me it was the C4S that I always wanted and IMO Porsche got it spot on with the chassis and the slightly wider rear. I think it's very much about the aesthetics and the type of driving you like. The 4S IMO is more planted on the road and drives like its on rails. I love it and am not one for white knuckle drives... but here's some more reasons to why I'm biased

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Oct 30, 2007 5:15:51 AM

U Boat Commander: Veteran; Loc: Los Angeles, CA; Posts: 1250, Gallery; Registered on: May 8, 2004; Reply to: Haku

Re: 997 4S or 2S - Help required!!

Like others have said, get the C2S and add X51 and some other options you like. You'll be a lot happier driving the car (even if the C4S looks nicer).

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Oct 30, 2007 6:14:35 AM

SVNSVN: Rennteam Pro; Loc: CA, USA; Posts: 2994, Gallery; Registered on: May 22, 2005; Reply to: Haku

Re: 997 4S or 2S - Help required!!

Quote:
Haku said:
I'm sure you'll love either. For me it was the C4S that I always wanted and IMO Porsche got it spot on with the chassis and the slightly wider rear. I think it's very much about the aesthetics and the type of driving you like. The 4S IMO is more planted on the road and drives like its on rails. I love it and am not one for white knuckle drives... but here's some more reasons to why I'm biased

Agree.

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Oct 30, 2007 1:00:35 PM

Flash: Junior; Loc: Aberdeen; Posts: 51, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 8, 2006; Reply to: SWHITE

Re: 997 4S or 2S - Help required!!

I've owned a 997 C4S for the past 18 months, and live 15 miles West of Aberdeen. Here are my thoughts:

1) The wider rear end of the C4S is very noticable from certain angles, and does make the car look meaner. The downside is that the extra width can make life very unpleasant and expensive in multistory car parks. Those extra few inches are actually quite a lot when you're going fast on a tight B road with cars coming the other way. In a functional sense the narrower car is the more useable on a daily basis, but some people find the wider car better looking.

2) The 4WD is only really necessary in the snow and ice. And I mean proper snow like we get up here! If I lived in an urban area instead of a rural area then there would be no need for 4WD. The 2WD car is a MUCH better driving experience.

3) Having said that, the facelift model should have the 4WD from the Turbo, and I believe that is a very good system, but not having driven one I am unable to comment on whether the car feels better than a C2S.

4) Go for a GT3 with the regular interior (no cage or bukets) over a powerkitted car. The powerkit is very good, but pointless in a C2S when you have the choice of a GT3. The only reason I have a powerkit in my car (fitted afterwards) is because the weather, and the fact that I live in a rural location, dictated the need for 4WD, and thus ruled out a GT3.

IMO the best roadgoing car that Porsche make is the regular GT3. Yes the RS looks meaner, but on the road I'd rather have the narrower car with the rear seats, and the leather interior.

Hope this insight helps.

One more thing... it's really not worth waiting till August, go get one now. I'd take the extra 10 months+ of driving over the facelift any day! This is a car you can use every day, I've already clocked up over 20,000 miles from new.

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997 4S or 2S - Help required!!

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