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Oct 25, 2007 12:55:19 PM
- KresoF1
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- Loc: Croatia , Croatia
- Posts: 7856, Gallery
- Registered on: Dec 3, 2005
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Reply to:
Ron (Houston)
Re: Mercedes C63 AMG-AMS test
Quote:
Ron (Houston) said:
Thanks kreso.
What's the verdict ? did they like it or dislike it ?
Some translation please.
Ron,
They liked it but, it seems to me that this C63 is aimed at different costumers then the one that will choose new M3(ouch, not very good sentence...).
First, autobox is good but, not very good. Second, C63 is heavy. Third, in straight line C63 is only marginally(if so..) faster then new M3. In curves or on the track it has no chance against M3. Fourth, steering seems remote control like to AMS stuff...
IMHO C63 needs optional 030 Performance Package(19", LSD, different chassis setup) and 280km/h limiter(also an option). Only then it is an interesting car but, with full specs it is around 15000Euro more expensive then similary speced M3(also with 280km/h limit option).
Oh, C63 engine is a monster!
Re: Mercedes C63 AMG-AMS test
Quote:
KresoF1 said:Quote:
Ron (Houston) said:
Thanks kreso.
What's the verdict ? did they like it or dislike it ?
Some translation please
Ron,
They liked it but, it seems to me that this C63 is aimed at different costumers then the one that will choose new M3(ouch, not very good sentence...).
First, autobox is good but, not very good. Second, C63 is heavy. Third, in straight line C63 is only marginally(if so..) faster then new M3. In curves or on the track it has no chance against M3. Fourth, steering seems remote control like to AMS stuff...
IMHO C63 needs optional 030 Performance Package(19", LSD, different chassis setup) and 280km/h limiter(also an option). Only then it is an interesting car but, with full specs it is around 15000Euro more expensive then similary speced M3(also with 280km/h limit option).
Oh, C63 engine is a monster!
Kreso,
How do you compare the RS4/R8, 63 AMG and M3's V8 ? They must be pretty close but I guess the BMW's engine still has the edge.
Re: Mercedes C63 AMG-AMS test
R8 is a true sportscar. Others(RS4, C63 and M3) are not.
If you like autobox(it is a must factor for huge number of so-called sportscars enthusiasts here-just look at 997 Turbo TIP fans) then you have only one choice C63.
Otherwise it is very personal choice indeed...
If you like autobox(it is a must factor for huge number of so-called sportscars enthusiasts here-just look at 997 Turbo TIP fans) then you have only one choice C63.
Otherwise it is very personal choice indeed...
Re: Mercedes C63 AMG-AMS test
Quote:
MKSGR said:Quote:
KresoF1 said:
First, autobox is good but, not very good.
Did you note the gearing (last 3 gears). Very strange...
Yeah, three useless gears after 222 km/h... They should've left 7th gear where it was, but significantly re-spaced the other 6. I have no idea why they call it a 7-speed gearbox as even a 5-speed would do.
Re: Mercedes C63 AMG-AMS test
Quote:
KresoF1 said:Quote:
Ron (Houston) said:
Thanks kreso.
What's the verdict ? did they like it or dislike it ?
Some translation please
Ron,
They liked it but, it seems to me that this C63 is aimed at different costumers then the one that will choose new M3(ouch, not very good sentence...).
You mean old people....like Ron
Re: Mercedes C63 AMG-AMS test
Quote:
Ziggy said:
I guess my post was not clear enough I meant enginewise.
Sorry!
M3 engine is excellent IMO. Amazing Laufkultur(you now what I mean here-difficult to translate to Englisch), good low end torque and progressive power delivery.
R8 engine is having little bit less Laufkultur but, it is even better at low end torque(put it in to the 6. gear at 1200rpm-no problem at all! R8 accelerate nicelly even at low revs) and its sound is better. It is IMHO offering more charismatic character(hello Lambo!) then M3 engine.
C63 engine is torque king. Its Laufkultur is not that good(actually M3 and R8 are way better here IMHO) and you can feel some restrain at high revs(above 6000rpm). Nevertheless, it is very, very good engine. As close as possible to good old American big blocks...
Re: Mercedes C63 AMG-AMS test
Quote:
KresoF1 said:
They liked it but, it seems to me that this C63 is aimed at different costumers then the one that will choose new M3(ouch, not very good sentence...).
First, autobox is good but, not very good. Second, C63 is heavy. Third, in straight line C63 is only marginally(if so..) faster then new M3. In curves or on the track it has no chance against M3. Fourth, steering seems remote control like to AMS stuff...
IMHO C63 needs optional 030 Performance Package(19", LSD, different chassis setup) and 280km/h limiter(also an option). Only then it is an interesting car but, with full specs it is around 15000Euro more expensive then similary speced M3(also with 280km/h limit option).
Oh, C63 engine is a monster!
Thank you Kreso, some interesting statistics here.
- It will reach the 250 kph limiter at 6k rpm in fifth gear, with 1k rpm in fifth gear and two more gears to go...
- It's about as heavy as a BMW M5
- Judging by this diagram it has 450 nm from idle (1k rpm), very impressive
Re: Mercedes C63 AMG-AMS test
Tim,
Yes, that as WBH(aka VKSF)likes to said AMG auto"Wonderbox" is pretty strange IMHO. Gearing is good for straight line acceleration and nothing else. On the track or "twisties" C63 will be(and is) slow. This gearbox is working agianst any good(not decent!) track performance. Even if you add 030 Performance Package and 280km/h limiter(both a must for C63 IMHO)...
Yes, that as WBH(aka VKSF)likes to said AMG auto"Wonderbox" is pretty strange IMHO. Gearing is good for straight line acceleration and nothing else. On the track or "twisties" C63 will be(and is) slow. This gearbox is working agianst any good(not decent!) track performance. Even if you add 030 Performance Package and 280km/h limiter(both a must for C63 IMHO)...
Re: Mercedes C63 AMG-AMS test
Quote:
Crash said:Quote:
MKSGR said:Quote:
KresoF1 said:
First, autobox is good but, not very good.
Did you note the gearing (last 3 gears). Very strange...
Yeah, three useless gears after 222 km/h... They should've left 7th gear where it was, but significantly re-spaced the other 6. I have no idea why they call it a 7-speed gearbox as even a 5-speed would do.
BTW, C63 is shifting to 7.(!!) gear at 170km/h on the autobahn in normal mode. Go figure...
Re: Mercedes C63 AMG-AMS test
Quote:
KresoF1 said:
Tim,
Yes, that as WBH(aka VKSF)likes to said AMG auto"Wonderbox" is pretty strange IMHO. Gearing is good for straight line acceleration and nothing else. On the track or "twisties" C63 will be(and is) slow. This gearbox is working agianst any good(not decent!) track performance. Even if you add 030 Performance Package and 280km/h limiter(both a must for C63 IMHO)...
Even with the 030 package the first five gears are more than sufficient. I haven't a clue what led those guys to create such ratios.
Re: Mercedes C63 AMG-AMS test
Quote:
Crash said:Quote:
KresoF1 said:
Tim,
Yes, that as WBH(aka VKSF)likes to said AMG auto"Wonderbox" is pretty strange IMHO. Gearing is good for straight line acceleration and nothing else. On the track or "twisties" C63 will be(and is) slow. This gearbox is working agianst any good(not decent!) track performance. Even if you add 030 Performance Package and 280km/h limiter(both a must for C63 IMHO)...
Even with the 030 package the first five gears are more than sufficient. I haven't a clue what led those guys to create such ratios.
Gearbox ratios on CL63 are ever stranger...
Re: Mercedes C63 AMG-AMS test
Quote:
KresoF1 said:Quote:
Crash said:Quote:
KresoF1 said:
Tim,
Yes, that as WBH(aka VKSF)likes to said AMG auto"Wonderbox" is pretty strange IMHO. Gearing is good for straight line acceleration and nothing else. On the track or "twisties" C63 will be(and is) slow. This gearbox is working agianst any good(not decent!) track performance. Even if you add 030 Performance Package and 280km/h limiter(both a must for C63 IMHO)...
Even with the 030 package the first five gears are more than sufficient. I haven't a clue what led those guys to create such ratios.
Gearbox ratios on CL63 are ever stranger...
True, but that thing is a boat, designed to carry large amounts of oil in its tank
.
Re: Mercedes C63 AMG-AMS test
"I haven't a clue what led those guys to create such ratios." - I believe it's called torque. I believe the gearbox has still issues with high torque numbers.
And also they need better fuel consumption values. Plus marketing: we have a 7 speed gearbox! And that is more than 6!
Probably the truth is somewhere between...
And also they need better fuel consumption values. Plus marketing: we have a 7 speed gearbox! And that is more than 6!
Probably the truth is somewhere between...
Re: Mercedes C63 AMG-AMS test
Quote:
Pentium said:
"I haven't a clue what led those guys to create such ratios." - I believe it's called torque. I believe the gearbox has still issues with high torque numbers.
And also they need better fuel consumption values. Plus marketing: we have a 7 speed gearbox! And that is more than 6!
Probably the truth is somewhere between...
No, I understand that they need good fuel mileage and I find the 7th gear ratio to be just fine. It's the 5th and 6th gear ratios that leave me perplexed
.
Re: Mercedes C63 AMG-AMS test
Quote:
KresoF1 said:Quote:
Crash said:Quote:
KresoF1 said:
Tim,
Yes, that as WBH(aka VKSF)likes to said AMG auto"Wonderbox" is pretty strange IMHO. Gearing is good for straight line acceleration and nothing else. On the track or "twisties" C63 will be(and is) slow. This gearbox is working agianst any good(not decent!) track performance. Even if you add 030 Performance Package and 280km/h limiter(both a must for C63 IMHO)...
Even with the 030 package the first five gears are more than sufficient. I haven't a clue what led those guys to create such ratios.
Gearbox ratios on CL63 are ever stranger...
Don't be so insensitive! WBH is reading this!
Re: Mercedes C63 AMG-AMS test
C63:
0-100km/h 4.7 sec
0-160km/h 10,3 sec
0-200km/h 15,6 sec
Slalom: 63,7 km/h
Lane change: 130,7 km/h
Brake distance 100-0km/h 36 meter
Brake distance 190-0km/h 130 meter
Tires: Pirelli P Zero
Total rating: 4 stars out of 5
M3:
0-100km/h 4.9 sec
0-160km/h 10,6 sec
0-200km/h 16,7 sec
Slalom: 66,7 km/h
Lane change: 138 km/h
Brake distance 100-0km/h 37 meter
Brake distance 190-0km/h 127 meter
Tires: Michelin Pilot Sport
Total rating: 5 stars out of 5
0-100km/h 4.7 sec
0-160km/h 10,3 sec
0-200km/h 15,6 sec
Slalom: 63,7 km/h
Lane change: 130,7 km/h
Brake distance 100-0km/h 36 meter
Brake distance 190-0km/h 130 meter
Tires: Pirelli P Zero
Total rating: 4 stars out of 5
M3:
0-100km/h 4.9 sec
0-160km/h 10,6 sec
0-200km/h 16,7 sec
Slalom: 66,7 km/h
Lane change: 138 km/h
Brake distance 100-0km/h 37 meter
Brake distance 190-0km/h 127 meter
Tires: Michelin Pilot Sport
Total rating: 5 stars out of 5
Re: Mercedes C63 AMG-AMS test
I will add M3 Sport Auto test results:
0-100km/h: 4.8s
0-160km/h:10.2s
0-200km/h:15.7s
Slalom 18m: 69,2km/h
Hockenheim: 1.14,3min
Brake distance 100-0km/h 34,3m(11,3m/s2!!)
Brake distance 200-0km/h 133,9km/h(11,5m/s2!!!)
Tires: 19" Michelin Pilot Cup+
Test car was equiped with 280km/h limiter.
Weight: 1608kg
As a comparison CLS 63AMG Hockenheim time is 1.18,5min...
0-100km/h: 4.8s
0-160km/h:10.2s
0-200km/h:15.7s
Slalom 18m: 69,2km/h
Hockenheim: 1.14,3min
Brake distance 100-0km/h 34,3m(11,3m/s2!!)
Brake distance 200-0km/h 133,9km/h(11,5m/s2!!!)
Tires: 19" Michelin Pilot Cup+
Test car was equiped with 280km/h limiter.
Weight: 1608kg
As a comparison CLS 63AMG Hockenheim time is 1.18,5min...
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