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    Re: Raikkonen is Champion!! FINALLY!

    Quote:
    gangajas said:
    Quote:
    rosso nuvola said:
    hope not but they have done everything to make Lewis the champion... if they disqualify the cars that stayed in front of hamilton i will stop seing f1 .



    Me too, it would be really sad.




    That would be a joke! It would be so unfair to take the championship away from Kimi in that way

    The season is over so let's look forward to the new season!

    Re: Raikkonen is Champion!! FINALLY!

    Quote:
    moto said:
    Quote:
    gangajas said:
    Quote:
    rosso nuvola said:
    hope not but they have done everything to make Lewis the champion... if they disqualify the cars that stayed in front of hamilton i will stop seing f1 .



    Me too, it would be really sad.




    That would be a joke! It would be so unfair to take the championship away from Kimi in that way

    The season is over so let's look forward to the new season!



    Agree on that.. Probably there wont be nothing, but if Williams and BMW were illegal, then we will see what will happened. For sure they cant disqualify someone without evidence..

    In 1995 David Coulthard with Williams Renault and Schumacher was disqualified in Interlagos, because they found something wrong with fuel.. but then FIA gave points back to them, only their teams didnt get points.

    Re: Raikkonen is Champion!! FINALLY!

    Quote:
    gangajas said:
    Quote:
    ResB said:
    Whats' this I've just heard on the BBC news about some investigations into the BMW team, providing Lewis a "slither of hope" according to the BBC?



    Wouldn't be surprised if the FIA punishes the BMWs and gives the title to Hamilton.



    And so they should . The Beamers did look toooo quick though and Kimi would pass it over because you could tell after the race that he realised he got lucky ..Massa should get punished also for not keeping his foot firmly pressed on the gas when he was easily leading , its was a race was it not ..

    Re: Raikkonen is Champion!! FINALLY!

    it was unfair when they disqualify the Maclaren but tnot their drivers , it was unfair when then did not penalise Lewis for using 2 sets of tires on the free practice, and it was unfair when they did not penalise Lewis for blocking Kimi in the qualifing so thing's don't look good for Kimi.
    ...maybe the FIA will just disqualify the teams involved and not the drivers

    Re: Raikkonen is Champion!! FINALLY!

    I really wanted to see Hamilton win today but now the race is over I'm glad that Kimi won a well deserved championship!. Ifv they come out and ban the BMW and Williams and give the champ to Hamilton it looks really bad for the sport.

    This season has been one of the best for a long time but has been full of so many silly issues which confuse many new fans...

    Fingers crossed they just leave this well alone.

    Re: Raikkonen is Champion!! FINALLY!

    I really hope they dont ban the BMW drivers, Kimi won the championship in a worthy manner. Lewis and McLaren f***** up, end of story..

    Re: Raikkonen is Champion!! FINALLY!

    I think Hamilton would refuse the title anyway. Don't think he would want to win it like that...

    Re: Raikkonen is Champion!! FINALLY!

    I wouldn't be surprised if the FIA disqualifies Rosberg, Heidfield and Kubica but they don't do nothing to Nakajima.

    Re: Raikkonen is Champion!! FINALLY!

    Quote:
    rosso nuvola said:
    it was unfair when they disqualify the Maclaren but tnot their drivers , it was unfair when then did not penalise Lewis for using 2 sets of tires on the free practice, and it was unfair when they did not penalise Lewis for blocking Kimi in the qualifing so thing's don't look good for Kimi.
    ...maybe the FIA will just disqualify the teams involved and not the drivers



    Agreed!

    Not sure if I dreamed about it, but Did not a trolley hepled this year to Hamilton to go back to the track????

    Is not that clear enough?.......

    I hope this rumor but just a joke.....if not, it could beguin to be a matter for the Ordinary Courts of Justice, to develop intense, serious and independant investigations, over a "show" that involves even public TVs, so, is a "public" issure.....(our taxes implied)....


    Finally I can use the marks in my Kbrd!

    Re: Raikkonen is Champion!! FINALLY!

    Quote:
    ResB said:
    I think Hamilton would refuse the title anyway. Don't think he would want to win it like that...



    Dont be too sure. I could just hear him:
    "Being a true British gentleman, I really dont like getting the victory handed to me like that....but I'll take it - reluctantly -for the team"

    Re: Raikkonen is Champion!! FINALLY!

    Quote:
    rosso nuvola said:
    it was unfair when they disqualify the Maclaren but tnot their drivers , it was unfair when then did not penalise Lewis for using 2 sets of tires on the free practice, and it was unfair when they did not penalise Lewis for blocking Kimi in the qualifing so thing's don't look good for Kimi.
    ...maybe the FIA will just disqualify the teams involved and not the drivers



    Funny that the letters FIA also exist in the word FAIR, when these two clearly have nothing in common.
    It's not all politics, but no doubt that someone somewhere is pulling some strings for "special interests".
    Who is pulling which string for whom we will prolly never know.
    I'm sure the FIA will punish the involved drivers accordingly - which would mean a fine and perhaps some Constructor's Championship points.
    I would be very surprised if they handed Hamilton the trophy.
    For one it would make a mockery of Formula One, stripping F1 of even more much needed credibility - making a lot of fans and sponsors distance themselves from a show that has become more and more a media circus and less and less a sport.
    Plus it would make it mega-obvious that someone is helping Hamilton behind the scenes.

    But you never know. The bigger the lie, the more people believe it.

    Re: Raikkonen is Champion!! FINALLY!

    The bigger the lie, the more people believe it.



    There is a sentence, sightly different, but, maybe with the same meaning that said "A lie, many times repeated, becomes a truth"

    Not talking about politics or even try to be a fu..kn revisionist ideas,....but that is a very very true sentence of a nasty (but evily inteligent) figure in our near past.... just a comment....unfortunately, this still applies to nowadays.and not only to F1 (the lesser important).

    Phil,thank you for your comments once again.I see you go as early as me to sleep!

    As I suppose Kimmi is doing!

    I sitil have some champaign bottles, and we will contine...BTW, my danish partner is very happy with Kimmi......but too happy to post!

    Re: Raikkonen is Champion!! FINALLY!

    Quote:
    Byron said:
    BTW, my danish partner is very happy with Kimmi......but too happy to post!



    Tell your partner, that endelig vandt Kimi! Det var osse på tide, efter at vi har måttet se på den svans til Alonso i 2 sæsoner
    Go fest - og pas nu på frisuren...vi kan jo ikke feste helt igennem som finnerne kan

    Re: Raikkonen is Champion!! FINALLY!

    Quote:
    Dr. Phil said:
    Quote:
    Byron said:
    BTW, my danish partner is very happy with Kimmi......but too happy to post!



    Tell your partner, that endelig vandt Kimi! Det var osse på tide, efter at vi har måttet se på den svans til Alonso i 2 sæsoner
    Go fest - og pas nu på frisuren...vi kan jo ikke feste helt igennem som finnerne kan



    Can't tell him (now), but he will know!

    Thanks again Lasse!

    BTW, he got married a couple of months ago in Barcelona, and, for me was very surprising the very loong speaches the Danish do in a wedding ........in any case, very, very sincere and nice!

    For sure.....I hope during his hangover will receive your words!

    Re: Raikkonen is Champion!! FINALLY!

    Quote:
    Dr. Phil said:
    Quote:
    Byron said:
    BTW, my danish partner is very happy with Kimmi......but too happy to post!



    Tell your partner, that endelig vandt Kimi! Det var osse på tide, efter at vi har måttet se på den svans til Alonso i 2 sæsoner
    Go fest - og pas nu på frisuren...vi kan jo ikke feste helt igennem som finnerne kan



    Tro mig, Kimi festar ända tills nästa säsong börjar!

    Re: Raikkonen is Champion!! FINALLY!

    It is great to see the red car back on top, where it belongs. Great to watch last night
    in Kuala Lumpur outdoors.

    I feel bad for Hamilton because I think he is a great guy/driver. Happy Alonzo did not
    win the championship.

    Well done Raikkonen.

    Re: Raikkonen is Champion!! FINALLY!

    Quote:
    cgt said:
    Incredibly Byron, I agree with you. Hamilton not winning the championship could be one of the best things to happen for him career wise as he will learn many lessons from it and undoubtedly come back mentally stronger.

    Maybe English is not your first language, but I have not heard Hamilton compare himself to Senna. He has said many times how he ADMIRES Senna, which the media have then twisted to say he compares himself to Senna. He would be a fool to directly compare himself to Senna and I have not seen one interview where he has done so. I think he has the potential to develop into that kind of greatness as he has a long career ahead of him and has a much cooler head than most others his age.

    Alonso, I'm sorry, but coming third in the championship is exactly what he deserved for all his childish whining behaviour this year. I know you will disagree with me but I'm not looking to start a fight, Alonso has not behaved like a champion in any way this year. If he was more of a man he would have beaten his team-mate on the track. Kimi was also beaten by Massa at the start of the year, yet not once did he ask for No.1 treatment, he simply got the job done. Alonso was actually very sporting in interviews today. If he had behaved like that throughout the season, things would have been very different.

    As an aside, several F1 sources are saying Alonso is out of McLaren for sure, it was decided before this race and they want nothing to do with him for next year. I cannot say I'm surprised.



    You have lost! with all your silly games in McLaren you have lost!!!! and I'm so glad that this time you have lost with just showing the poor and I mean POOR driving from Hamilton that's no way you could be champion like that!!!..... may he keep that way from now on!!!!

    Congratulations to Raikkonen and Ferrari, congratulations to Dr. Phill!!! Next time you come in Madrid let me know and you pay the drinks!!!


    Re: Raikkonen is Champion!! FINALLY!

    Quote:
    Dr. Phil said:
    Quote:
    ResB said:
    I think Hamilton would refuse the title anyway. Don't think he would want to win it like that...



    Dont be too sure. I could just hear him:
    "Being a true British gentleman, I really dont like getting the victory handed to me like that....but I'll take it - reluctantly -for the team"



    And then going to excuse to Raikkonen because.. hm mhm... sorry mate but the others decided I had nothing to do with it, it was not like yesterday trying to obstruct you, and I will like to apologise again for that because I'm a good person at the bottom of my heart, but you know it is all for the sport and ..... for the team!!!!

    Re: Raikkonen is Champion!! FINALLY!

    Quote:
    throt said:
    Quote:
    gangajas said:
    Quote:
    ResB said:
    Whats' this I've just heard on the BBC news about some investigations into the BMW team, providing Lewis a "slither of hope" according to the BBC?



    Wouldn't be surprised if the FIA punishes the BMWs and gives the title to Hamilton.



    And so they should . The Beamers did look toooo quick though and Kimi would pass it over because you could tell after the race that he realised he got lucky ..Massa should get punished also for not keeping his foot firmly pressed on the gas when he was easily leading , its was a race was it not ..



    The BMW's have been fast for a while. Besides, it's one thing to catch then and quite another to pass, as you know. If the fuel temperatures were as reported, I don't think it will make a difference that is noticeable by us sitting at home. I mean, both BMW and Williams were relatively quick but one must keep in mind that as teams have stopped development of their 07 cars, it is natural that the slower/smaller teams catch up. Anyway, I'm no expert, but since the FIA said it's fine, I'm not going to argue.

    Just a little reminder, in 2007 Kimi won more races than anyone else and he has more fastest laps than Alonso and Hamilton combined. So it's be a bit rich to say he 'got lucky' I'd say. What BMW and Williams did were beyond his control, very much in the same way that what Coughland did was beyond's Lewis control so neither should have been penalised. Besides, had their fuel temps been within limits I don't think it would have changed things much. The closest he did get to Heidfeld was ~8 seconds on lap 55. His electronics went ape on about lap 10 so we're talking about 8/(55-10) = 0.18s per lap. Besides, if we look at Nakajima whose fuel was 12deg below at the first stop but only 10deg below at the second, if anything he was going faster after his 2nd.

    As for Massa deliberately going slowly, did you see the lap times? When Massa pitted the second time, Kimi put in 2 laps that would have been (the 3rd being and in lap) in the 1'12s. or something like that. I'm pretty certain that it's actually built in to their strategy that Kimi will be ahead as long as he keeps within x seconds of Massa and that's exactly what happened for them. Massa lap times out of the pits were also not artificially slow. He came out to some traffic going into the 2nd sector which wasn't the best of things.

    Sure, after the 2nd stop, he didn't keep that pace. Mainly because there's little use going ape$hit to catch Kimi, it would just add risk to his own points and the standings (should he bin it). Plus Alonso was some way behind.

    I'm pretty sure the FIA or someone else would protest if Massa did anything 'wrong' anyway, so far, no protest so I guess that settles that.

    As for McLaren, well I'm not entirely sure about the 3 stop strategy considering the pit lane speed limit here is lower than usual plus it's long and complicated. I guess they were banking on Lewis not tripping over on his own team mate while he could have just stayed put and be patient. Had that happened, all he had to do was finish the race, pretty much, and the 3 stopper would allow for any freak weather or super-softs having problems.

    Anyway, it's nice to see the Champion is who it should be. The fastest guy in F1. Very nicely done Mr.Raikkonen. You even smiled.

    p.s. With a nearly 100% certainty of bagging the Championship, no chance of anyone behind catching him, to no benefits to the number of points he has, and about 6 laps to go, anyone with an ounce of sanity would have back off. Kimi put in a fastest lap of the race 0.123s behind his qualifying time. He's a hero.

    Re: Raikkonen is Champion!! FINALLY!

    Quote:
    ed_moree said:
    Quote:
    cgt said:
    Incredibly Byron, I agree with you. Hamilton not winning the championship could be one of the best things to happen for him career wise as he will learn many lessons from it and undoubtedly come back mentally stronger.

    Maybe English is not your first language, but I have not heard Hamilton compare himself to Senna. He has said many times how he ADMIRES Senna, which the media have then twisted to say he compares himself to Senna. He would be a fool to directly compare himself to Senna and I have not seen one interview where he has done so. I think he has the potential to develop into that kind of greatness as he has a long career ahead of him and has a much cooler head than most others his age.

    Alonso, I'm sorry, but coming third in the championship is exactly what he deserved for all his childish whining behaviour this year. I know you will disagree with me but I'm not looking to start a fight, Alonso has not behaved like a champion in any way this year. If he was more of a man he would have beaten his team-mate on the track. Kimi was also beaten by Massa at the start of the year, yet not once did he ask for No.1 treatment, he simply got the job done. Alonso was actually very sporting in interviews today. If he had behaved like that throughout the season, things would have been very different.

    As an aside, several F1 sources are saying Alonso is out of McLaren for sure, it was decided before this race and they want nothing to do with him for next year. I cannot say I'm surprised.



    You have lost! with all your silly games in McLaren you have lost!!!! and I'm so glad that this time you have lost with just showing the poor and I mean POOR driving from Hamilton that's no way you could be champion like that!!!..... may he keep that way from now on!!!!

    Congratulations to Raikkonen and Ferrari, congratulations to Dr. Phill!!! Next time you come in Madrid let me know and you pay the drinks!!!





    Not me my friend, I'm very happy with the result. I have been a Ferrari owner for 15 years and they are my #1 team.
    Hamilton lost the championship but he has beaten Alonso into third place and hopefully Alonso will not have a competitive car next year. So good result all round!

    Re: Raikkonen is Champion!! FINALLY!

    I wonder whether the FIA will ask Williams not to let Nakajima drive? What he did to his pit crew was terrible. He isn't ready for F1. Hope those guys are okay. One has an injured foot, the other has an injured back.

    Kimi and Ferrari winning is great, great news BUT it's yesterday's news. The big, BIG question for me is which team Alonso will drive for next season?????

    Re: Raikkonen is Champion!! FINALLY!

    Quote:
    cgt said:
    Quote:
    ed_moree said:
    Quote:
    cgt said:
    Incredibly Byron, I agree with you. Hamilton not winning the championship could be one of the best things to happen for him career wise as he will learn many lessons from it and undoubtedly come back mentally stronger.

    Maybe English is not your first language, but I have not heard Hamilton compare himself to Senna. He has said many times how he ADMIRES Senna, which the media have then twisted to say he compares himself to Senna. He would be a fool to directly compare himself to Senna and I have not seen one interview where he has done so. I think he has the potential to develop into that kind of greatness as he has a long career ahead of him and has a much cooler head than most others his age.

    Alonso, I'm sorry, but coming third in the championship is exactly what he deserved for all his childish whining behaviour this year. I know you will disagree with me but I'm not looking to start a fight, Alonso has not behaved like a champion in any way this year. If he was more of a man he would have beaten his team-mate on the track. Kimi was also beaten by Massa at the start of the year, yet not once did he ask for No.1 treatment, he simply got the job done. Alonso was actually very sporting in interviews today. If he had behaved like that throughout the season, things would have been very different.

    As an aside, several F1 sources are saying Alonso is out of McLaren for sure, it was decided before this race and they want nothing to do with him for next year. I cannot say I'm surprised.



    You have lost! with all your silly games in McLaren you have lost!!!! and I'm so glad that this time you have lost with just showing the poor and I mean POOR driving from Hamilton that's no way you could be champion like that!!!..... may he keep that way from now on!!!!

    Congratulations to Raikkonen and Ferrari, congratulations to Dr. Phill!!! Next time you come in Madrid let me know and you pay the drinks!!!





    Not me my friend, I'm very happy with the result. I have been a Ferrari owner for 15 years and they are my #1 team.
    Hamilton lost the championship but he has beaten Alonso into third place and hopefully Alonso will not have a competitive car next year. So good result all round!



    Oh man I never tought what good it will be if Raikkonen will win the title!!!! I'm honestly glad that everybody is happy with this end!!!! Drinks for everyone in this forum!!!!

    So when we start again?!? the fight!?!

    Re: Raikkonen is Champion!! FINALLY!

    I'll drink to that! If a new era of Ferrari domination begins after the Schumacher/Brawn years I would be very happy indeed!

    Re: Raikkonen is Champion!! FINALLY!

    A much as it pains me to say it - the right man did win the championship.

    But as for hoping for a Ferrari (or anyone) dominating the coming years.. I hope not. What I'd like to see is these great drivers in competitive cars so we can see more great driving on the track.

    OK, he may have had a faster car, but some of Hamilton's overtaking moves yesterday were a breath of fresh air. How often have we seen drivers of good teams stuck in the mid-field for the best part of a race when they've had a grid penalty or some other misfortune.

    Re: Raikkonen is Champion!! FINALLY!

    I agree that Kimi deserves the title -

    His performances in the second half of the season have been incredible.

    He won the most races in the season and returned the most fastest laps.

    His manner on and off the track has been impeccable.

    However, I still query Bernie Eccleston's comment to Martin Brundle before the race that for Hamilton to win, in his rookie year, would be bad for F1.

    I still query Brundle's comment that it looked like Hamilton's car had been "turned off and then back on again" just when he was making up the ground he'd lost

    And I still query why Hamilton was the only driver to stop three times. Why didn't they fuel him to the end on his second stop.

    Maybe I'm getting a bit cynical in my old age, but there's more than a smack of manipulation here IMHO.

    Re: Raikkonen is Champion!! FINALLY!

    Quote:

    And I still query why Hamilton was the only driver to stop three times. Why didn't they fuel him to the end on his second stop.

    Maybe I'm getting a bit cynical in my old age, but there's more than a smack of manipulation here IMHO.



    BMW had also a three-stop strategy. They thought that a three-stop maybe better, he has all the time a lighter can and can overtake easier.

    AM

    Re: Raikkonen is Champion!! FINALLY!

    John H, I dont think there is any rat anywhere to smell.
    3 stops was probably the only viable option, since Hamilton was relatively light at the start, and he wouldnt be able to make it home on a full tank with (what was it?) 50 laps to go.
    Then better to be light and fast.

    He lost the race when he tried regaining the place from Alonso. That was a huge error of judgement.

    As for Ecclestone's comments, I believe that is his opinion - and not necessarily a sign of foul play. Hamilton didnt get DQ'd by FIA or officials.
    He tanked the GP all by himself.

    Re: Raikkonen is Champion!! FINALLY!

    At one point after the race, Ron Dennis was quoted as saying that McLaren did all the calculations and decided that a 3 stop strategy actually saved Hamilton 10 seconds compared to a 2 stop stategy. Dunno - still felt like an odd decision to me.

    Re: Raikkonen is Champion!! FINALLY!

    Quote:
    easy_rider911 said:
    At one point after the race, Ron Dennis was quoted as saying that McLaren did all the calculations and decided that a 3 stop strategy actually saved Hamilton 10 seconds compared to a 2 stop stategy. Dunno - still felt like an odd decision to me.



    Schumacher actually won a race once (back in 04-05 sometime) where he was about the only one on a 3-stop strategy. But it worked like a charm, even tho I sat an hour after the race and simply couldnt make it all add up....
    It seemed undoable, but apparently it wasnt.

    The math has to be pretty simple:
    If you gain more than the time it takes to pit, it makes sense to 3-stop.
    Otherwise not.
    So if the pistop takes, say, 25 secs total and the driver can do 0.8-1.0 secs better pr lap than will a fuller tank, then it makes sense - depending on tyrewear etc.

    Re: Raikkonen is Champion!! FINALLY!

    I am thinking one thing-way the hell Hamilton did not drive normally in fourth or fifth place and won the Title?

    As you all know I am Kimi's fan(and previously my fav was Mika) but, Hamilton clearly has a problem in his head. After that bad start he just could drive normally back there and won the Title but, NOOO-he needed to show Alonso who is the Boss! We all know the end result...

    Other question is-will Hamilton ever become a Champion? Personally, despite his excellent talent I doubt it...

     
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