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Re: RUF 997tt kits online info
Quote:
eclou said:
http://www.rufautocenter.com/conversions/997_Turbo.asp
510, 550, and 600hp kits
Nice.
RUF is using stock turbo's for their 510 and 550 packages, then moves up to modded VTG's for their 600, with fixed-geometry units for their 650.
It appears that the 600 package gives more bang-for-the-buck versus 650, with the VTG's yielding "on paper" less lag in the 600 with earlier torque peaking, with 850 Nm @ 2,750, holding steady until 4,000, and 725 before 2,500 in the 600. In the 650, there is 870 Nm @ 3,500 then dropping off at 4,000). The 650 has a higher power peak at later rev's versus the 600 (650 @ 7,000 in the former, 600 @6,500 in the latter), reflecting the extra 0.2L displacement to 3.8L in the 650.
Let's hear some RUFephiles post their experiences with the 600 kit using modded VTG's.
Sep 19, 2007 5:17:41 AM
- bvineyards
- Co-Pilot
-
- Loc: napa valley, california , United States
- Posts: 292, Gallery
- Registered on: Nov 30, 2005
- Reply to: TT Surgeon
Re: RUF 997tt kits online info
Quote:
eclou said:
http://www.rufautocenter.com/conversions/997_Turbo.asp
510, 550, and 600hp kits
Besides the ridiculous pricing, how can an ecu tune produce only 30hp gain (510 package) and then getting another 40 hp by adding an exhaust conversion (550 package) ?
what am I missing here? is it really possible to add 40 hp to a tuned car just by changing the exhaust/restriction?
Re: RUF 997tt kits online info
Quote:
AAHTT said:Quote:
eclou said:
http://www.rufautocenter.com/conversions/997_Turbo.asp
510, 550, and 600hp kits
Besides the ridiculous pricing, how can an ecu tune produce only 30hp gain (510 package) and then getting another 40 hp by adding an exhaust conversion (550 package) ?
what am I missing here? is it really possible to add 40 hp to a tuned car just by changing the exhaust/restriction?
The 997TT in stock form is notoriously "restricted" and the VTG's sensitive to subtle changes in back-pressure, so respectable power gains can be had with changing the exhaust alone. However, keep in mind that when comparing RUF's 510/550 kits, that with the move up to the 550 from the 510, the ECU programming changes with the hardware mods., so the extra 40 ponies is not merely from the exhaust mod. alone.
Re: RUF 997tt kits online info
Quote:
Turbo Al said:Quote:
AAHTT said:Quote:
eclou said:
http://www.rufautocenter.com/conversions/997_Turbo.asp
510, 550, and 600hp kits
Besides the ridiculous pricing, how can an ecu tune produce only 30hp gain (510 package) and then getting another 40 hp by adding an exhaust conversion (550 package) ?
what am I missing here? is it really possible to add 40 hp to a tuned car just by changing the exhaust/restriction?
The 997TT in stock form is notoriously "restricted" and the VTG's sensitive to subtle changes in back-pressure, so respectable power gains can be had with changing the exhaust alone. However, keep in mind that when comparing RUF's 510/550 kits, that with the move up to the 550 from the 510, the ECU programming changes with the hardware mods., so the extra 40 ponies is not merely from the exhaust mod. alone.
true, but 40 hp is a lot to get compared to just a tuned car, even if the program is different. I have a feeling that the 510 package really makes 530hp, but if they say that, they won't sell many 550 packages would they?
I have not seen any exhaust upgrade bring in more than 20hp whether the car was tuned or not.
Ruf just wants to sell the real expensive packages, that's what I think they are doing.
Re: RUF 997tt kits online info
Quote:
AAHTT said:Quote:
Turbo Al said:Quote:
AAHTT said:Quote:
eclou said:
http://www.rufautocenter.com/conversions/997_Turbo.asp
510, 550, and 600hp kits
Besides the ridiculous pricing, how can an ecu tune produce only 30hp gain (510 package) and then getting another 40 hp by adding an exhaust conversion (550 package) ?
what am I missing here? is it really possible to add 40 hp to a tuned car just by changing the exhaust/restriction?
The 997TT in stock form is notoriously "restricted" and the VTG's sensitive to subtle changes in back-pressure, so respectable power gains can be had with changing the exhaust alone. However, keep in mind that when comparing RUF's 510/550 kits, that with the move up to the 550 from the 510, the ECU programming changes with the hardware mods., so the extra 40 ponies is not merely from the exhaust mod. alone.
true, but 40 hp is a lot to get compared to just a tuned car, even if the program is different. I have a feeling that the 510 package really makes 530hp, but if they say that, they won't sell many 550 packages would they?
I have not seen any exhaust upgrade bring in more than 20hp whether the car was tuned or not.
Ruf just wants to sell the real expensive packages, that's what I think they are doing.
They would, actually, seeing how the 550 makes closer to 570-580 bhp
.What Al has said is completely correct. You can crank the boost up all you want, but with so much backpressure, it will do no good in terms of power gains. Now when you remove that restriction, things suddenly improve dramatically, since the entire system is now breathing much more freely. After all, you're only as strong as your weakest link.
Sep 20, 2007 12:08:26 PM
- TB993tt
- Rennteam Pro
-
- Loc: manchester , United Kingdom
- Posts: 2280, Gallery
- Registered on: Jul 22, 2002
- Reply to: bvineyards
Re: RUF 997tt kits online info
Quote:
bvineyards said:Quote:
TT Surgeon said:
Yes, I'll take one 120K 650HP conversion please.
not that i don't respect RUF but $120 grand for 170hp?
really?
The RS Tuning 687hp/900NM tt "kit" costs around $200K US - These are engines which will hold up to heavy Autobahn use and are completely reworked with lots of different components (like all new heads)
Re: RUF 997tt kits online info
Quote:
TB993tt said:Quote:
bvineyards said:Quote:
TT Surgeon said:
Yes, I'll take one 120K 650HP conversion please.
not that i don't respect RUF but $120 grand for 170hp?
really?
The RS Tuning 687hp/900NM tt "kit" costs around $200K US - These are engines which will hold up to heavy Autobahn use and are completely reworked with lots of different components (like all new heads)
True. You're essentially paying for an almost entirely new engine and drivetrain.
Re: RUF 997tt kits online info
Quote:
LAT said:
hey would, actually, seeing how the 550 makes closer to 570-580 bhp
Actually Ruf is very accurate with their ratings. My 580PS CTR-2 makes 582 PS on their engine dyno. If Ruf could claim 570-580 PS they would in a minute.
My very favourite urban myth - How sooo many people think that Porsche (and Ruf) under rates their engine power -they never seem to accept that it could be the subsequent measurement that is wrong
Re: RUF 997tt kits online info
The RUF prices seem beyond ridiculous, particularly for the 650hp package. To say that RUF and RSI are made tough or strong to withstand the high speed "autobahn" at sustained speed seems spurious, at best, and belies the obvious question to a cynical bastard like me - specifically what WARRANTY do these tuners give you (assuming the car isn't raced) ? I think the American tuners like EVOMS that charge about $12K-$15K for 617hp at crank/635lb tq. (stage 4 package) give what amounts to no substantive warranty. I can deal with that as their "packages" are relatively inexpensive. However, when your talking $40K-$50K for 600hp at the crank it sounds, well, to be blunt, like a rippoff. Again, if the European tuners proffer a substantive warranty (ie. 24 months 24K miles, etc.) then I would comprehend the price disparity, but if they don't, then why spend the premium ? Maybe I'm just another dumbass Yankee, but why is the RUF 600 system 4 times the price of the EVOMS system ? A response with a VERIFIABLE rationale would be appreciated (beyond the Euro/autobahn/sustained high speed thing, which too me is UNVERIFIABLE - unless you can prove it too me).
Re: RUF 997tt kits online info
Quote:
tortesq1 said:
The RUF prices seem beyond ridiculous, particularly for the 650hp package. To say that RUF and RSI are made tough or strong to withstand the high speed "autobahn" at sustained speed seems spurious, at best, and belies the obvious question to a cynical bastard like me - specifically what WARRANTY do these tuners give you (assuming the car isn't raced) ? I think the American tuners like EVOMS that charge about $12K-$15K for 617hp at crank/635lb tq. (stage 4 package) give what amounts to no substantive warranty. I can deal with that as their "packages" are relatively inexpensive. However, when your talking $40K-$50K for 600hp at the crank it sounds, well, to be blunt, like a rippoff. Again, if the European tuners proffer a substantive warranty (ie. 24 months 24K miles, etc.) then I would comprehend the price disparity, but if they don't, then why spend the premium ? Maybe I'm just another dumbass Yankee, but why is the RUF 600 system 4 times the price of the EVOMS system ? A response with a VERIFIABLE rationale would be appreciated (beyond the Euro/autobahn/sustained high speed thing, which too me is UNVERIFIABLE - unless you can prove it too me).
I can only answer your warranty question as far as the Rt12 is concerned(which, in fact, has the 650hp engine you mention above). The car comes with a full (meaning Porsche like) warranty for 24 Months or a maximum of 50,000km. By paying a premium (one digit k Euro figure) you can go up to an additional 24 months of warranty (maximum 100,000km). Thus, total warranty protection can go up to 48 months and 100,000km. Such warranty covers everything that could be wrong with your car. Not bad, if you ask me
Re: RUF 997tt kits online info
True. Plus, the Euro has become extremely strong against the dollar and this pushes prices up even further.
As for the spurious Autobahn claims, Ruf has dozens of trouble-free cars running around Germany every day and this IMO is proof enough. Then again, for American driving conditions, where you rarely if ever make a high-speed run and mostly cruise with an occasional burst of acceleration, Todd's EVO kits seem like a no-brainer.
As for the spurious Autobahn claims, Ruf has dozens of trouble-free cars running around Germany every day and this IMO is proof enough. Then again, for American driving conditions, where you rarely if ever make a high-speed run and mostly cruise with an occasional burst of acceleration, Todd's EVO kits seem like a no-brainer.
Re: RUF 997tt kits online info
Quote:
tortesq1 said:
The RUF prices seem beyond ridiculous, particularly for the 650hp package. To say that RUF and RSI are made tough or strong to withstand the high speed "autobahn" at sustained speed seems spurious, at best, and belies the obvious question to a cynical bastard like me - specifically what WARRANTY do these tuners give you (assuming the car isn't raced) ? I think the American tuners like EVOMS that charge about $12K-$15K for 617hp at crank/635lb tq. (stage 4 package) give what amounts to no substantive warranty. I can deal with that as their "packages" are relatively inexpensive. However, when your talking $40K-$50K for 600hp at the crank it sounds, well, to be blunt, like a rippoff. Again, if the European tuners proffer a substantive warranty (ie. 24 months 24K miles, etc.) then I would comprehend the price disparity, but if they don't, then why spend the premium ? Maybe I'm just another dumbass Yankee, but why is the RUF 600 system 4 times the price of the EVOMS system ? A response with a VERIFIABLE rationale would be appreciated (beyond the Euro/autobahn/sustained high speed thing, which too me is UNVERIFIABLE - unless you can prove it too me).
"Verifiable" rationale is very difficult to find since when engines go pop or wear prematurely the owners tend to keep very quiet....
An obviously indicator is why (despite the EVO tuner packages being so much cheaper) does one not see/hear of anyone driving in Germany buying said kit ?
This is not in any way meant to be anti US since in the UK we have similar draconian speed laws and there is no way to use all the performance of a tt Porsche.
You have to experience a Porsche tt on the Autobahn to really "get" what Porsche tts are about (IMO) being able to use WOT in 5th and 6th gear at every break in traffic is a unique experience (for those of us who live outside De) and the heat it generates when you have done it multiple times in quick succession cannot be replicated in most countries.
Those "dyno runs" which EVO do and post on the net are quite frankly IMO a complete farce - how can a ~7 second "power run" compare to gunning up through 4th, 5th and 6th gear which may take 25seconds at full load. At lot of people who buy the EVO stuff just want the fancy "EVO700" badges to stick on the side of their tts
EVO market agressively their intercoolers (which are crazy cheap) they do the usual talk about polished end tanks, flow. bar and plate yada yada... but they haven't actually done a real test on them. The only way to test an intercooler is to run it WOT at near maximum speed and read off the maximum IAT, do the same with a stock interercooler and see which cools best !!
Like we did here with a $20K Secan unit: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3364134753736286869
There are plenty of Euro tuners who claim the big power but have many problems (or don't actually make the power) when their engines are used as described above.
As far as warranty, apart from Ruf there generally isn't any warranty despite the high $$. RS Tuning offer 6 months 6000 miles.
Re: RUF 997tt kits online info
Quote:
TB993tt said:Quote:
tortesq1 said:
You have to experience a Porsche tt on the Autobahn to really "get" what Porsche tts are about (IMO) being able to use WOT in 5th and 6th gear at every break in traffic is a unique experience (for those of us who live outside De) and the heat it generates when you have done it multiple times in quick succession cannot be replicated in most countries.
Those "dyno runs" which EVO do and post on the net are quite frankly IMO a complete farce - how can a ~7 second "power run" compare to gunning up through 4th, 5th and 6th gear which may take 25seconds at full load. At lot of people who buy the EVO stuff just want the fancy "EVO700" badges to stick on the side of their tts
I totally agree and want to repeat my posting from 6speedonline in that evo thread:
"do you (Evo) asure your 700 kit is autobahn prove? i run my 997TT quite often with 300+ for longer distances and the car really loves it. No oil or water temp problem, it's getting better and better.
it ran 8000km right now - 2l oil, that's all , this engine is a piece of art!
Look inside the exhaust after a 800km trip - no burn, absoutly clean as it was on the first day"
Waiting for an answer and keep in mind, a new engine will be at 40+k Euro ;-)
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