Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: 997 GT2 + Walter Röhrl - video - Page2

Sep 14, 2007 7:06:26 AM

turbosteff: Co-Pilot; Loc: Hessen,Germany , Germany; Posts: 153, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 2, 2006; Reply to: MKSGR

Re: 997 GT2 + Walter Röhrl - video

Quote:
MKSGR said:
Quote:
Whoopsy said:
There is something I don't get from a few of you. A select few of you seems to think Horst von Saurma is king and his time should be the benchmark for comparing cars.

There is an essential misunderstanding in your question... We do NOT think that HvS is king. We only think that the Supertest is the only reasonable benchmark for comparing sportscars available as per today. I would be highly pleased if a different magazine would also start doing NBR tests.

Your better answer should be :"We do NOT think that HvS is king. We think he is GOD!"

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Sep 14, 2007 7:53:26 AM

AUM: Veteran; Loc: Germany; Posts: 1203, Gallery; Registered on: May 2, 2006; Reply to: turbosteff

Re: 997 GT2 + Walter Röhrl - video

Full laps (flying or standing start) cannot be timed on public days as there are access gates and speed restrictions on the last straight. Public day times are for a shorter lap of 19.1 km from Bridge to Gantry (BTG).

Full laps can only be timed on a closed track with the restrictions on the long straight removed. Please read below for exact Sport Auto track length. It is 20.6 km (a full lap is 20.832 km)

from Wikepedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordschleife_fastest_lap_times

Track lengths and timing

Not all of the following laptimes are comparable. The complete de:Nordschleife is 20.832 km long, full uninterrupted flying laps can only be done in closed sessions and race events like Castrol-Haugg-Cup.
During the industry testing sessions in which de:Sport auto records its "Supertest", the track can not be traveled at full speed past "Tribüne 13" (T13, grandstand 13) in order to allow safe access from the old exit/entrance there. Thus, Sportauto Supertests cover only about 20.6 km, which in average yields a 7 s shorter lap time compared to a full lap.
There are 5 sections on the 20,600 meters long Supertest-Nordschleife:
1st=3850 m
2nd=4235 m
3rd=4825 m
4th=4846 m
5th=2844 m
=20600 m

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Sep 14, 2007 7:58:12 AM

AUM: Veteran; Loc: Germany; Posts: 1203, Gallery; Registered on: May 2, 2006; Reply to: AUM

Re: 997 GT2 + Walter Röhrl - video

Your better answer should be :"We do NOT think that HvS is king. We think he is GOD!"

No, Sir Walter is God. But he works for Porsche.
HvS is the fastest independent tester with the most experinence.

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Sep 14, 2007 8:09:56 AM

Guy: Junior; Loc:; Posts: 135, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 27, 2003; Reply to: AUM

Re: 997 GT2 + Walter Röhrl - video

You guys are missing the point, the reason HvS is so relevent is that he is allowed to produce times for every make of cars and thus tests Ferraris, Lambo, BMWs, Audis, Pagani etc etc.

Until Walter Rohl is quoted with laps in these cars (which he won't as he works for Porsche), then his times are just not that useful for comparison with other Manufacturers.

Secondly, HvS is quite happy to produce a time that shows a particular newer model or higher priced model is not faster than the cheaper/older model eg 996RS vs 997RS VS 997GT3, whereas Porsche times always look suspiciously in line with marketing objectives ie newer = faster.

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Sep 14, 2007 1:43:46 PM

mp: Pilot; Loc: New York, USA; Posts: 361, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 4, 2006; Reply to: AUM

Re: 997 GT2 + Walter Röhrl - video

Quote:
AUM said:
Full laps (flying or standing start) cannot be timed on public days as there are access gates and speed restrictions on the last straight. Public day times are for a shorter lap of 19.1 km from Bridge to Gantry (BTG).

Full laps can only be timed on a closed track with the restrictions on the long straight removed. Please read below for exact Sport Auto track length. It is 20.6 km (a full lap is 20.832 km)

from Wikepedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordschleife_fastest_lap_times

Track lengths and timing

Not all of the following laptimes are comparable. The complete de:Nordschleife is 20.832 km long, full uninterrupted flying laps can only be done in closed sessions and race events like Castrol-Haugg-Cup.
During the industry testing sessions in which de:Sport auto records its "Supertest", the track can not be traveled at full speed past "Tribüne 13" (T13, grandstand 13) in order to allow safe access from the old exit/entrance there. Thus, Sportauto Supertests cover only about 20.6 km, which in average yields a 7 s shorter lap time compared to a full lap.
There are 5 sections on the 20,600 meters long Supertest-Nordschleife:
1st=3850 m
2nd=4235 m
3rd=4825 m
4th=4846 m
5th=2844 m
=20600 m

Thank-you!

In fact, the above info matches the Ring diagram posted on SA's website beside the Turbo's test results. NOT a complete (flying) lap!!

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Sep 14, 2007 1:55:30 PM

RR4: Senior; Loc:; Posts: 608, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 7, 2003; Reply to: mp

Re: 997 GT2 + Walter Röhrl - video

According to EVO, Walter Rohrl ran the GT3 and the GT3RS at the Ring on a public day, on a damp track 7:45 and 7:42 respectively - quicker than what HvS ran his RS at the ring.
AMS is hardly definitive - especially when they aren't definitively saying whether their times were on a closed course or a public day course.

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Sep 14, 2007 2:20:25 PM

MKSGR: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 8098, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2002; Reply to: turbosteff

Re: 997 GT2 + Walter Röhrl - video

Quote:
turbosteff said:
Quote:
MKSGR said:
Quote:
Whoopsy said:
There is something I don't get from a few of you. A select few of you seems to think Horst von Saurma is king and his time should be the benchmark for comparing cars.

There is an essential misunderstanding in your question... We do NOT think that HvS is king. We only think that the Supertest is the only reasonable benchmark for comparing sportscars available as per today. I would be highly pleased if a different magazine would also start doing NBR tests.

Your better answer should be :"We do NOT think that HvS is king. We think he is GOD!"

Some readers might not understand your irony...

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Sep 14, 2007 2:23:17 PM

MKSGR: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 8098, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2002; Reply to: mp

Re: 997 GT2 + Walter Röhrl - video

Quote:
mp said:
Quote:
AUM said:
Full laps (flying or standing start) cannot be timed on public days as there are access gates and speed restrictions on the last straight. Public day times are for a shorter lap of 19.1 km from Bridge to Gantry (BTG).

Full laps can only be timed on a closed track with the restrictions on the long straight removed. Please read below for exact Sport Auto track length. It is 20.6 km (a full lap is 20.832 km)

from Wikepedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordschleife_fastest_lap_times

Track lengths and timing

Not all of the following laptimes are comparable. The complete de:Nordschleife is 20.832 km long, full uninterrupted flying laps can only be done in closed sessions and race events like Castrol-Haugg-Cup.
During the industry testing sessions in which de:Sport auto records its "Supertest", the track can not be traveled at full speed past "Tribüne 13" (T13, grandstand 13) in order to allow safe access from the old exit/entrance there. Thus, Sportauto Supertests cover only about 20.6 km, which in average yields a 7 s shorter lap time compared to a full lap.
There are 5 sections on the 20,600 meters long Supertest-Nordschleife:
1st=3850 m
2nd=4235 m
3rd=4825 m
4th=4846 m
5th=2844 m
=20600 m

Thank-you!

In fact, the above info matches the Ring diagram posted on SA's website beside the Turbo's test results. NOT a complete (flying) lap!!

The Sportauto lap IS A FLYING LAP. They do NOT start from stand-stll.

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Sep 14, 2007 2:26:29 PM

MKSGR: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 8098, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2002; Reply to: RR4

Re: 997 GT2 + Walter Röhrl - video

Quote:
RR4 said:

According to EVO, Walter Rohrl ran the GT3 and the GT3RS at the Ring on a public day, on a damp track 7:45 and 7:42 respectively - quicker than what HvS ran his RS at the ring.
AMS is hardly definitive - especially when they aren't definitively saying whether their times were on a closed course or a public day course.

You guys are really notorious. You repeat incorrect claims all the time. The fact that you have never read Sportauto (which, by the way, is NOT AMS) does not mean that the test is not useful.

Please, everybody who does not know Sportauto just READ what informed posters write. We are not stupid. You can rely on the information we post. Thanks.

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Sep 14, 2007 2:31:15 PM

AUM: Veteran; Loc: Germany; Posts: 1203, Gallery; Registered on: May 2, 2006; Reply to: mp

Re: 997 GT2 + Walter Röhrl - video

Quote:
mp said:
Quote:
AUM said:
Full laps (flying or standing start) cannot be timed on public days as there are access gates and speed restrictions on the last straight. Public day times are for a shorter lap of 19.1 km from Bridge to Gantry (BTG).

Full laps can only be timed on a closed track with the restrictions on the long straight removed. Please read below for exact Sport Auto track length. It is 20.6 km (a full lap is 20.832 km)

from Wikepedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordschleife_fastest_lap_times

Track lengths and timing

Not all of the following laptimes are comparable. The complete de:Nordschleife is 20.832 km long, full uninterrupted flying laps can only be done in closed sessions and race events like Castrol-Haugg-Cup.
During the industry testing sessions in which de:Sport auto records its "Supertest", the track can not be traveled at full speed past "Tribüne 13" (T13, grandstand 13) in order to allow safe access from the old exit/entrance there. Thus, Sportauto Supertests cover only about 20.6 km, which in average yields a 7 s shorter lap time compared to a full lap.
There are 5 sections on the 20,600 meters long Supertest-Nordschleife:
1st=3850 m
2nd=4235 m
3rd=4825 m
4th=4846 m
5th=2844 m
=20600 m

Thank-you!

In fact, the above info matches the Ring diagram posted on SA's website beside the Turbo's test results. NOT a complete (flying) lap!!

Sport Auto always uses the same track length and the same procedures for comparisons.
20.6 km or 20.83 km does not matter as long as it is always the same.

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Sep 14, 2007 8:43:50 PM

Whoopsy: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Vancouver,BC , Canada; Posts: 16151, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 19, 2006; Reply to: AUM

Re: 997 GT2 + Walter Röhrl - video

So for Sport Auto times, they are a flying lap from the pit? Bridge to Gantry time? Is this a confirmed fact?

If that's the case, Sport Auto times will not be directly comparable to closed course flying lap times, it can only be used to compared against it's own list.

For me at least, if I were to compared say a Gallardo to F430 to a 997 Turbo at the ring, I won't want the same driver to drive all 3 cars, I would prefer to have Walter drives the Porsche, Valentino Balboni to drive the Gallardo and Dario Benuzzi to drive the F430.

No one man can master all the different cars and gives a good time in all of them, but as each factory's chief test driver, I am pretty sure they know how to best drive their car to give the best possible times.

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Sep 15, 2007 4:21:16 AM

TT Surgeon: Senior; Loc: Long Island, NY , United States; Posts: 783, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 28, 2004; Reply to: Whoopsy

Re: 997 GT2 + Walter Röhrl - video

No matter what the ring time doubters believe, the 7:31 is for real, as is the GT2 and it's more refined brother turbo.
It's only significant in my book if WR does it anyway, I could really care less if HvS matches it or not. You put WR and HvS out there on the ring alone in identical GT2's, and you know the pride and joy of Regensburg,WR, is crossing that finish line first!jmo boys.

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Sep 15, 2007 1:27:46 PM

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2002; Reply to: TT Surgeon

Re: 997 GT2 + Walter Röhrl - video

Quote:
TT Surgeon said:
No matter what the ring time doubters believe, the 7:31 is for real, as is the GT2 and it's more refined brother turbo.
It's only significant in my book if WR does it anyway, I could really care less if HvS matches it or not. You put WR and HvS out there on the ring alone in identical GT2's, and you know the pride and joy of Regensburg,WR, is crossing that finish line first!jmo boys.

Yes, but you're biased

.

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