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    Boxster sales drop sharply

    Hi guys, I just had a look at PAG's recent press release about FY 06/07 performance

    http://www.porsche.com/usa/aboutporsche/pressreleases/pag/?pool=international-de&id=2007-09-11

    Although they don't show the allocation of 987 sales (coupé vs. cab) yet, it is obvious that the Cayman has taken away a lot of Boxster orders.

    For comparison purposes some figures:

    Boxster-Sales (04/05-05/06-Estimate06/07)
    18,009-16,296-9,367

    Cayman-Sales (05/06-Estimate06/07)
    11,610-16,779

    Total 987-line (04/05-05/06-06/07)
    18,009-27,906-26,146

    Remarks:
    > in FY 05/06 Cayman de facto was available for only 6 months
    > Estimate 06/07: assumes that ratio Boxster/Cayman at Y/E has been the same as reported for the first half of FY 06/07 (11,978 total 987 line, whereof 7,687 Cayman and 4,291 Boxster).

    If my estimate would be correct, Boxster sales are down by more than 40% (FY 06/07 vs. FY 05/06) , whereas Cayman sales should have exceeded budgeted sales (I recall something like 10,000 cars p.a. as the original budget).

    Not so good news for those Boxster-owners who want to resell their cars any time soon ? Doesn't bother me really though - my baby is a keeper and I have a more exclusive car now

    Though I'm interested to learn what the take of my fellow Rennteamers on the future of the 987-line is

    TIA for your appreciated comments

    Re: Boxster sales drop sharply

    The Soprano comment that the Boxster is a girlie car has taken its toll. As long as Porsche continues to under power it and treat as a stepchild to the 911 it will continue to have sluggish sales.

    Also, as I pointed out in another post, car reviewers who have long felt that the Boxster is car perfection are beginning to open their eyes to other cars. Recently, Richard Hammond of Top Gear compared the S against the Z4M and concluded he would rather have the Z4 despite his relentless love of the Boxster S. Other car manufacturers are entering this market and certainly will siphon off sales from the Boxster line.

    I also note that US sales for all Porsche are down 10% in the US. The screw is turning.

    Re: Boxster sales drop sharply

    Cayman sales were strong in the first 15 months due to the waiting lists - there are plenty of nearly used / demonstrators and unsold showroom cars in UK showrooms at the moment. Ditto the Boxster. It no doubt did take soem sales away, its a similar price point or price progression up the Porsche range for Boxster owners. Remember there is plenty of competition around too (Nissan 350Z, new Audi TT, BMW Z4M roadster/coupe)

    987 prices in the trade and private sales have taken a hit for sure in the last 6 months - one guy just bought a 2.7 for Pounds22k ($40k) or almost half its original price - 2 years old.

    Used Cayman prices are being controlled by the dealers- they are asking silly money, but as their stock levels reach critical point they will have no option but to lower the prices. They certainly are not giving good part ex deals, despite their forecourt stickers suggesting excellent retained value.

    Special edition 987/987S and Cayman Edition1 are all specials designed at getting interest back in the showrooms - the sales staff attitiude needs improving too.


    The whole economy in the UK is slowing as house prices and mortgage rates hit home - not good for prestige brands. Housing (and related banking) woes in the US hurting car sales there too.

    Re: Boxster sales drop sharply

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    The Soprano comment that the Boxster is a girlie car has taken its toll. As long as Porsche continues to under power it and treat as a stepchild to the 911 it will continue to have sluggish sales.

    Also, as I pointed out in another post, car reviewers who have long felt that the Boxster is car perfection are beginning to open their eyes to other cars. Recently, Richard Hammond of Top Gear compared the S against the Z4M and concluded he would rather have the Z4 despite his relentless love of the Boxster S. Other car manufacturers are entering this market and certainly will siphon off sales from the Boxster line.

    I also note that US sales for all Porsche are down 10% in the US. The screw is turning.


    yeah the screw is turning yeah, into unreliability of the F430. At least we don't rip customers off during service intervals

    Re: Boxster sales drop sharply

    A lot of the people that are in the market for a new 987 would have already bought one. If they are trading to another new one, 50% are going to be looking at a new Cayman. If they're looking for a 2nd new Boxster, they may well wait for the next swathe of changes. People that bought original 987s back in 04/05 may be getting rid due to the current environmental/economic pressure and/or because they've had their Porsche fun and are now quitting.
    So... We'll see. Not suprised the used prices are depressed (depressingly). Does this mean you can get discounts off new in the UK now then? I doubt it!

    Re: Boxster sales drop sharply

    Nick, thanks for your brilliant market analysis - how could I have forgotten that comments from Mr. Hammond and even more so from the Sopranos are the major drivers in this specific market segment

    Which new competitors are you aware of entering this market segment

    @ percymon & wtsnet: thanks for posting your observations in the UK market

    Re: Boxster sales drop sharply

    I know, I know, only pro-Porsche comments are brilliant.

    The fact you have to ask which competitors are entering the market only proves my point. Open your eyes and look around.

    BTW have you looked at the demographic's of the Sporano's and Top Gear.

    Re: Boxster sales drop sharply

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    I know, I know, only pro-Porsche comments are brilliant.


    Certainly not - there are quite some reasons for well founded and constructive criticism, but I'm yet waiting to read one single of these points posted by you (instead of the unsubstantiated mantra of the screw is turning...bla bla bla...they look all the same...blablabla )

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    The fact you have to ask which competitors are entering the market only proves my point. Open your eyes and look around.


    Still googling and trying to find some competitors who just have entered the market during PAG's most recent FY ?

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    BTW have you looked at the demographic's of the Sporano's and Top Gear.


    Actually I don't watch these shows, it has been you using them as your "witnesses". Hence I'm sure you are familiar with their demographics

    Re: Boxster sales drop sharply

    As a former Boxster and current Cayman owner this thread definitely caught my attention. It should come as no surprise that after 10 years of strong sales the Boxster has saturated its market niche. Because of Porsche's philosophy of slow evolution, the 987 platform has ironically reached its near zenith at a time when demand is predictably falling due to lower priced competitors, world economic conditions, and the boredom that comes with 10 years of familiarity in a market niche more sensitive to fashion trends than the 911 audience. As evidenced by the "Porsche w/ panties" epithet quoted above, the currency of automotive culture has greatly coarsened by the obsessive emphasis on raw horsepower. For decades Porsche's success was based on the agility of its cars, rather than horsepower alone, where the whole exceeded the sum of the parts. The 550s, 356s, and early 911s all share this quality, having successfully competed against more powerful adversaries. The 987s, despite claims to the contrary, are through and through Porsches in both engineering and spirit, as they embody all the best of Porsche's traditional characteristics. As to the future, with the consolidation of Porsche's interests in VW/Audi I believe that the 987s represent the last of the entry level Porsches that share predominant technology with the 911. The next generation of entry level Porsche will recall the VW/Audi alliance of the 914 and 924 series. Porsche will offer an upper tier sports car in conjunction with low and mid tier offerings from VW and Audi based on a cross-platform engineering concept. One day in the not too distant future people will be extolling the virtues of the Boxster and Cayman, real Porsches that no longer are made.

    Re: Boxster sales drop sharply

    Quote:
    DaveC said:
    As a former Boxster and current Cayman owner this thread definitely caught my attention. It should come as no surprise that after 10 years of strong sales the Boxster has saturated its market niche. Because of Porsche's philosophy of slow evolution, the 987 platform has ironically reached its near zenith at a time when demand is predictably falling due to lower priced competitors, world economic conditions, and the boredom that comes with 10 years of familiarity in a market niche more sensitive to fashion trends than the 911 audience. As evidenced by the "Porsche w/ panties" epithet quoted above, the currency of automotive culture has greatly coarsened by the obsessive emphasis on raw horsepower. For decades Porsche's success was based on the agility of its cars, rather than horsepower alone, where the whole exceeded the sum of the parts. The 550s, 356s, and early 911s all share this quality, having successfully competed against more powerful adversaries. The 987s, despite claims to the contrary, are through and through Porsches in both engineering and spirit, as they embody all the best of Porsche's traditional characteristics. As to the future, with the consolidation of Porsche's interests in VW/Audi I believe that the 987s represent the last of the entry level Porsches that share predominant technology with the 911. The next generation of entry level Porsche will recall the VW/Audi alliance of the 914 and 924 series. Porsche will offer an upper tier sports car in conjunction with low and mid tier offerings from VW and Audi based on a cross-platform engineering concept. One day in the not too distant future people will be extolling the virtues of the Boxster and Cayman, real Porsches that no longer are made.



    Well said....

    Re: Boxster sales drop sharply

    @ DaveC: what an excellent post, superb brain food
    Indeed it's ironic that 10 years ago the very first Boxster model with a tiny engine, tricky handling etc. was selling like hot cake (if I recall correctly up to 22,000 units p.a.) whereas demand for the actual 987, which is just a brilliant sportscar, is that much softening already two years after it's market launch.

    And yes, there are rumors about PAG and Audi sharing the same platform for a midengined sportscar in the future. Only time will tell....but if that's going to happen my 987S will be a keeper forever

    Re: Boxster sales drop sharply

    Quote:
    DaveC said:
    As a former Boxster and current Cayman owner this thread definitely caught my attention. It should come as no surprise that after 10 years of strong sales the Boxster has saturated its market niche. Because of Porsche's philosophy of slow evolution, the 987 platform has ironically reached its near zenith at a time when demand is predictably falling due to lower priced competitors, world economic conditions, and the boredom that comes with 10 years of familiarity in a market niche more sensitive to fashion trends than the 911 audience. As evidenced by the "Porsche w/ panties" epithet quoted above, the currency of automotive culture has greatly coarsened by the obsessive emphasis on raw horsepower. For decades Porsche's success was based on the agility of its cars, rather than horsepower alone, where the whole exceeded the sum of the parts. The 550s, 356s, and early 911s all share this quality, having successfully competed against more powerful adversaries. The 987s, despite claims to the contrary, are through and through Porsches in both engineering and spirit, as they embody all the best of Porsche's traditional characteristics. As to the future, with the consolidation of Porsche's interests in VW/Audi I believe that the 987s represent the last of the entry level Porsches that share predominant technology with the 911. The next generation of entry level Porsche will recall the VW/Audi alliance of the 914 and 924 series. Porsche will offer an upper tier sports car in conjunction with low and mid tier offerings from VW and Audi based on a cross-platform engineering concept. One day in the not too distant future people will be extolling the virtues of the Boxster and Cayman, real Porsches that no longer are made.



    Superb post

    Re: Boxster sales drop sharply

    Maybe I'm wrong but it seems like Caymans are selling well simply because dealers are stocking lots of them (as opposed to Boxsters) and a big chunk of sales come from people buying what is on the lot. In other words, the dealers in my area seem to have lots and lots of Caymans but very few Boxsters sitting on the lot so maybe people are buying the Cayman "because it's there." This seems like a great (and sneaky) way for Porsche to sell the more expensive Cayman because they know some people want instant gratification and buy what's on the lot. Again, maybe I'm wrong.

    Re: Boxster sales drop sharply

    Quote:
    Porsche-Jeck said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    BTW have you looked at the demographic's of the Sporano's and Top Gear.


    Actually I don't watch these shows, it has been you using them as your "witnesses". Hence I'm sure you are familiar with their demographics



    I have to stick up for Nick here.

    Nick's use of the emoticon suggests to me that he was just expressing his dismay, or even disgust , at the fact that TV viewing surveys show that the only people who watch the Sopranos and Top Gear in the USA are San Diego lawyers who are incapeable of correctly spelling the plural of either "demographic" or "Soprano".

    On the one hand, he loves exclusivity. On the other, he hates to be alone.

    No need to thank me for defending you, Nick. It was my pleasure, as always.

    Re: Boxster sales drop sharply

    FWIW and being a hetrosexual.....if I were in the market for a lesser Porsche I'd have a coxster over a gayman any day. Alas, it's 997 facelift for me (and depreciation woes) for 2008. I'll stick with the 335 for now.

    Re: Boxster sales drop sharply

    Well writen...all indications are that the 988(?) will share components with the Audi TT - engine, transmission, etc..An approach similar to what was done with the Cayenne.While our Boxster's & Cayman's may take a hit in re-sale value now, their values should increase as people recognize they are the last purely Porsche designed and built Boxters & Caymans. Just look at resale values for the 993.

    Re: Boxster sales drop sharply

    Quote:
    fritz said:
    Quote:
    Porsche-Jeck said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    BTW have you looked at the demographic's of the Sporano's and Top Gear.


    Actually I don't watch these shows, it has been you using them as your "witnesses". Hence I'm sure you are familiar with their demographics



    I have to stick up for Nick here.

    Nick's use of the emoticon suggests to me that he was just expressing his dismay, or even disgust , at the fact that TV viewing surveys show that the only people who watch the Sopranos and Top Gear in the USA are San Diego lawyers who are incapeable of correctly spelling the plural of either "demographic" or "Soprano".

    On the one hand, he loves exclusivity. On the other, he hates to be alone.

    No need to thank me for defending you, Nick. It was my pleasure, as always.



    Fritz, apparently you are INCAPABLE of spelling as well.

    The Boxster/ Cayman are terrific cars. However, as the public became famillar with these cars, they learned they are lesser Porsche's. Deliberately underpowered and made inferior by Porsche. Why would anyone buy them if they really wanted Porsche? Thus, the reason for their apparent lack of popularity among the performance crowd.

    Re: Boxster sales drop sharply

    Nick, if I recall correctly you're driving an entry level Ferrari. Why would anybody buy this car if he wanted really Ferrari

    Re: Boxster sales drop sharply

    Quote:
    Porsche-Jeck said:
    Nick, if I recall correctly you're driving an entry level Ferrari. Why would anybody buy this car if he wanted really Ferrari



    The other day I was driving down the coast highway and I passed a nice looking Boxster S with an attractive young couple in the car. They pulled alongside my car (driver side) and the woman (passenger) began to tell me how much she like my car. Before she could finish, I told her she had the best value sport car on the road and that I preferred it over the 911.She seemed surprised.

    She then asked me what was it like to drive a 430 and I told her the same as the Boxster except I had more hp. As I left, I told them they had one of the best cars on the planet. They both were beaming with pride as I drove off. Priceless! FWIW, I meant every word.

    Re: Boxster sales drop sharply

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Quote:
    Porsche-Jeck said:
    Nick, if I recall correctly you're driving an entry level Ferrari. Why would anybody buy this car if he wanted really Ferrari



    The other day I was driving down the coast highway and I passed a nice looking Boxster S with an attractive young couple in the car. They pulled alongside my car (driver side) and the woman (passenger) began to tell me how much she like my car. Before she could finish, I told her she had the best value sport car on the road and that I preferred it over the 911.She seemed surprised.

    She then asked me what was it like to drive a 430 and I told her the same as the Boxster except I had more hp. As I left, I told them they had one of the best cars on the planet. They both were beaming with pride as I drove off. Priceless! FWIW, I meant every word.



    Nick, you're either very ill, or getting soft in your old days....

    Re: Boxster sales drop sharply

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Quote:
    fritz said:
    Quote:
    Porsche-Jeck said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    BTW have you looked at the demographic's of the Sporano's and Top Gear.


    Actually I don't watch these shows, it has been you using them as your "witnesses". Hence I'm sure you are familiar with their demographics



    I have to stick up for Nick here.

    Nick's use of the emoticon suggests to me that he was just expressing his dismay, or even disgust , at the fact that TV viewing surveys show that the only people who watch the Sopranos and Top Gear in the USA are San Diego lawyers who are incapeable of correctly spelling the plural of either "demographic" or "Soprano".

    On the one hand, he loves exclusivity. On the other, he hates to be alone.

    No need to thank me for defending you, Nick. It was my pleasure, as always.



    Fritz, apparently you are INCAPABLE of spelling as well.

    The Boxster/ Cayman are terrific cars. However, as the public became famillar with these cars, they learned they are lesser Porsche's. Deliberately underpowered and made inferior by Porsche. Why would anyone buy them if they really wanted Porsche? Thus, the reason for their apparent lack of popularity among the performance crowd.



    Great response, Nick!

    So who told you I'd also made a spelling error?


    Re: Boxster sales drop sharply

    Fritz, you are one sharp dude. Too bad you drive a Porsche or do you?

    Re: Boxster sales drop sharply

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Quote:
    fritz said:
    Quote:
    Porsche-Jeck said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:
    BTW have you looked at the demographic's of the Sporano's and Top Gear.


    Actually I don't watch these shows, it has been you using them as your "witnesses". Hence I'm sure you are familiar with their demographics



    I have to stick up for Nick here.

    Nick's use of the emoticon suggests to me that he was just expressing his dismay, or even disgust , at the fact that TV viewing surveys show that the only people who watch the Sopranos and Top Gear in the USA are San Diego lawyers who are incapeable of correctly spelling the plural of either "demographic" or "Soprano".

    On the one hand, he loves exclusivity. On the other, he hates to be alone.

    No need to thank me for defending you, Nick. It was my pleasure, as always.



    Fritz, apparently you are INCAPABLE of spelling as well.

    The Boxster/ Cayman are terrific cars. However, as the public became famillar with these cars, they learned they are lesser Porsche's. Deliberately underpowered and made inferior by Porsche. Why would anyone buy them if they really wanted Porsche? Thus, the reason for their apparent lack of popularity among the performance crowd.



    "Why would anyone buy them if they really wanted Porsche?"

    Because it IS a Porsche!

    David

    Re: Boxster sales drop sharply

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    The Soprano comment that the Boxster is a girlie car has taken its toll.



    Jeremy Clarkson topped it, as usual:

    Quote:
    (...) And nor should you go for the entry-level V8, because nothing says a man has failed in life quite so well as a 500 badge on the back of his Mercedes. Apart, perhaps, from a Porsche Boxster. (...)




    (From a review about the CL 600: http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/driving/jeremy_clarkson/article2234517.ece )

    Re: Boxster sales drop sharply

    Hmm, the 911 is essentially unchanged in design , only the cayman and boxster has pushed the boundaries in recent years. I'd guess the people that knock the boxster / cayman are doing it to try and justify spending double on a 911. If the cayman had the same power as a 911 , it would be a very different result in the motoring magazines for the top position i'm sure. The 911 is iconic so I'd doubt porsche will ever drop the model, they just need to be careful not to userp themselves with the new models , especially if it handles better. The boxster / cayman isn't tyrying to compete with the 911 , its a different car for a different purpose. Its pricing introduces new owners to the brand who will hopefully move to the 911 or other models with time. The boxster looks infinitely better than a 911 cabriolet with the hood up or down...its been designed to be a roadster ! The cayman treads a fine line between the 911 and the boxster , better handling , but not as much power as the 911 so that a true comparison of chassis and performance cannot be made. As to the works of mr clarkson , I see them as merely entertaining comment. He is a journalist ....not a racing driver , therefore has no credentials other than his own opinions.

    Re: Boxster sales drop sharply

    Quote:
    berty987 said:
    Hmm, the 911 is essentially unchanged in design , only the cayman and boxster has pushed the boundaries in recent years. I'd guess the people that knock the boxster / cayman are doing it to try and justify spending double on a 911. If the cayman had the same power as a 911 , it would be a very different result in the motoring magazines for the top position i'm sure. The 911 is iconic so I'd doubt porsche will ever drop the model, they just need to be careful not to userp themselves with the new models , especially if it handles better. The boxster / cayman isn't tyrying to compete with the 911 , its a different car for a different purpose. Its pricing introduces new owners to the brand who will hopefully move to the 911 or other models with time. The boxster looks infinitely better than a 911 cabriolet with the hood up or down...its been designed to be a roadster ! The cayman treads a fine line between the 911 and the boxster , better handling , but not as much power as the 911 so that a true comparison of chassis and performance cannot be made. As to the works of mr clarkson , I see them as merely entertaining comment. He is a journalist ....not a racing driver, therefore has no credentials other than his own opinions.



    I agree with much of what you say.

    Sometimes people ask me, "Why didn't you get a 911?" or "when are you going to upgrade to a 911?"

    I think the only people that seriously ask those questions are ones that have never driven the 987 or that prefer the 911 for some psychological reasons (posing, status, childhood memories or aspirations). Only a very small minority seem to enjoy the challenge of mastering the 911's rear engine dynamics. Rennteam is a fun forum because many of those enthusiasts post reularly here. But overall I agree with you about the Boxster. I'll never buy a 911, and I'll only keep buying Porsche if the Boxster receives some more serious power. Porsche may view the Boxtser as a gateway to their higher margin products, but for me it is an affordable mid engine sportscar. If PAG won't produce a better Boxster, I'll be ordering my next car from one of the Italians.

    mcdelaug

    Re: Boxster sales drop sharply

    Seems to me that some people who bash on the Boxster --and don't have either a Boxster or a 997 --can't afford either car. ...Sometimes I wonder if the same folks who buy the hierarchy would think differently if they were told that the Boxster costs more.

    I like the Boxster over the 997 for design reasons. Is not the mid-engine layout inherently more stable than the rear engine layout, i.e. if the Boxster and 997 had the same engine, would not the Boxster handle more neutrally around corners?

    Re: Boxster sales drop sharply

    Boxster vs. 911 is not the only consumer choice to be made when looking at available cars. '08 base Corvette's will have 437 hp and cost 1/2 the price of a 911S, and 2/3 of a reasonably eqiuped Boxster S. No doubt Porsche is a better built /balanced car with far more prestige, but raw peformance/ dollar there are more attractive choices out there. 2009 Boxster's and 911's will definitely benefit from DFI and larger displacement, allowing for greater performance and better fuel economy. Don't expect minor jumps such as 25 hp, but probably more like 45 more hp, bringing the 911S up to 400hp. As for the Boxster, base has been touted to go up to 270hp, and the Boxster S probably up to 325hp, making it the first Boxster S to go 0-60 under 5.0 seconds. More power will outweigh for many some of the ugly styling tweaks. Why no facelift cars at Frankfurt? It will absolutely kill 2008 Boxster and 911 sales. I've been looking on the web for pictures of the 2009 Boxster/Boxster S, and have only been able to find spy shots dating from February and May of this year. I'm not sure that I like what I see, but it is camaflouged so I really can not tell, what the front lights will look like. LED lights and larger side mirrors are great and all, but they look too much like the lights on the Honda S2000 that I sold. The greatest advantage seems to be Direct Fuel Injection (DFI). More power will certainly outweigh for many some of the "ugly" styling tweaks. Here's my dillema, my car should be made in December 2007 and delivery in late January to early Feb. Would you cancel the order and wait until....April, possibly September for the 2009?

    Re: Boxster sales drop sharply

    I realise my tounge-in-cheek post may have been taken literally. The 911 vs Boxster debate has been raging for years and probably will continue for years to come. FWIW, I've owned numerous P cars over the years and if I didn't need to occasionally transport my family, I'd buy another Boxster tomorrow. (well, I'd actualy wait for the facelift...) I personally think the 911 is significantly more attractive, but on UK roads, I find the Boxster more entertaining.

    Re: Boxster sales drop sharply

    A humble comment from someone who got a boxster and a 997 turbo; after 9 porsches (boxsters and 911's) I still luv the boxster very much, its like a go-cart, and.. the cost-fun factor is MUCH better then for the turbo! but yes I admit, I bought the turbo for his image.
    in meanwhile I ordered a 987 '09 to replace our 3th boxster.

    ps: my 997tt is a softie against the PSE of my previous 996c4s.

     
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