Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: Subrogation - Page3

Jun 15, 2004 11:41:14 PM

FixedWing: Veteran; Loc:; Posts: 870, Gallery; Registered on: May 25, 2002; Reply to: ben, lj

When is driving a CGT unreasonable ???

Quote:
ben, lj said:
"it really fair to drive around these sorts of cars and then have others be responsible for them if they are at-fault in an accident?"

i'm wondering the same thing!

Yes, I'm really wondering this. When is it beyond reasonable expectations to drive one of these cars on the street? By design, a hard hit will totally destroy the car. The parts are astronomically priced. So is the car. When is it just no reasonable anymore to have this thing on the road?

So far, the at-fault party has been responsible for all damage caused no matter what. But surely there will be limits to this?

Stephen

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Jun 16, 2004 2:00:12 AM

nberry: Rennteam VIP; Loc: La Jolla, USA , United States; Posts: 13737, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: ben, lj

Re: Sorry if I disagree..

Quote:
ben, lj said:
is it going to Germany or West Coast Specialties?

Good question! Never thought to ask.

However, based on the damage, I cannot imagine it being shipped to Germany. Maybe they will send someone here.

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Jun 16, 2004 4:34:42 AM

Larry B: Junior; Loc: Sonoma, California; Posts: 80, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 15, 2002; Reply to: Justin

Re: CGT accident

The recent posts around the accident are very interesting. I want to give my perspective as I have had my CGT for a period of five weeks and have driven it close to 2,700 miles. I will share my experience on the track at a later time with some pictures. Bottom line, the CGT is a fantastic automobile on the track. I can't imagine anyone questioning the excellent job Porsche designers have done in creating this exceptional automobile after they have driven the car on the track. Phenomenal!!! On the other hand, the clutch is a major disappointment for me. From my point of view, it is the only flaw, mechanically, of the CGT. I think it is a major flaw and will detract from the enjoyment people, like myself, who really enjoy using their cars, will have with the CGT. On level ground it is manageable. Release the clutch slowly, no throttle, let the car get under way, and you are OK. On any upward angle, starting from a stop, is nerve racking to say the least. Almost impossible to get underway without stalling the car, holding up traffic, and generally creating a situation that does not reflect positively on either Porsche or the driver. The situation only gets worse as you get nervous, which is rather difficult not to become, as your $500K car starts rolling backwards. I would like to think Porsche will come up with a fix that will correct this problem. I certainly would like to think they will. The clutch aside, and once underway, the car is fantastic to use on the street as well. So enjoyable to drive. The low clearence is also a bit of an issue but not one that a new spoiler every so often will not resolve. Not any worse than a GT 2 or GT 3. Now what is this regarding the responsibility that owners of an automobile like the CGT have to the driving public? I don't get it. If I roll back into a car behind me because I stall my car on an incline, then I need to take responsibility for the damage to the other persons car and my own, which I assume will be covered by insurance, which is why I have my car insured. On the other hand, if someone else misjudges the speed, or lack of speed, that my car has, and hits me, then they need to take responsibilty for the damage they have created as well. Rather simple I think.

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Jun 16, 2004 11:39:11 AM

MAVERICK: Veteran; Loc: Cincinnati, OH (USA) , United States; Posts: 1145, Gallery; Registered on: May 31, 2004; Reply to: Larry B

Re: CGT accident

Quote:
Larry B said:
On any upward angle, starting from a stop, is nerve racking to say the least. Almost impossible to get underway without stalling the car, holding up traffic, and generally creating a situation that does not reflect positively on either Porsche or the driver.

Larry,
What is the exact technique you are using when starting from a stop on an upward angle?

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Jun 16, 2004 12:25:10 PM

ben, lj: Expert; Loc:; Posts: 1373, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 6, 2003; Reply to: Larry B

Re: CGT accident

Great job on the 2700 miles in 5 weeks! It's nice to see it getting driven.

As for the responsibility to others, it's just that accidents happen. Ordinary car accidents shouldn't bankrupt people, but if the car they hit is the CGT, they're maybe losing their house and/or their kids aren't going to college without loans. If the guy in the truck was in a commercial truck, he's fired. If he'd have hit any other car, it would have been a couple thousand max and life would have gone on. Something about that doesn't seem right. Many people stretch just to take out the higher limits for a lease - which wouldn't even be close to replacing a totaled CGT.

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Jun 16, 2004 12:41:22 PM

Lars997: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: South , Germany; Posts: 9448, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 8, 2002; Reply to: Larry B

Re: CGT accident

@Larry

The clutch problem is what I heared from so many sides now. Also - most of the magazines who tested the cars (lots of them have very experienced drivers - as well some of them drive actively races), reported that.

Its nearly a shame that the clutch is that difficult to use. Also - as this clutch is honored as one of the smallest and also guilty for being able to build such a flat car.

I think and I also know, that this problem is well known within Weissach, but I don't think that a reasonable upgrade will follow.

Keep us informed with your very very interesting experience with this fantastic car. Its so great to hear "real life"!

L@rs

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Jun 16, 2004 1:02:30 PM

WBH: Expert; Loc: CA; Posts: 1963, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 2, 2004; Reply to: Larry B

Re: CGT accident

Larry, thanks for the detailed review. Have heard others also express concerns about bottoming out car and possibly damaging engine/suspension components on hilly roads at speed.....do you share that concern? Also, to provide perspective, how problematic is car's low ground clearance in daily driving vs Murci/Gallardo/Stradale? Does Murci's height adjustment feature help solve the issue? Thanks again.

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Jun 16, 2004 1:02:38 PM

MAVERICK: Veteran; Loc: Cincinnati, OH (USA) , United States; Posts: 1145, Gallery; Registered on: May 31, 2004; Reply to: FixedWing

CGT: public liability

Quote:
FixedWing said:

Incidentally, can you imagine the reaction of the truck driver and trucking company when told that he has just caused more damage to a car that can still be driven home than he will earn in 3-4 years? Imagine also the poor sod who will be bankrupted because he "only" has US$50K of property damage insurance. Is it really fair to drive around these sorts of cars and then have others be responsible for them if they are at-fault in an accident? Just asking

Stephen,

Your question is thought-provoking and something I have never considered when fantasizing about driving exotic and super cars on the street. Initially, I began swaying towards the humanitarian side, but after hearing Larry B.'s opinion, I rationalize it in this way. If insurance companies are willing to insure these cars and owners are willing to pay the yearly premiums, then it is fair game to drive these cars around in the public midst. If the CGT was street illegal based on the price, at what price is the line drawn and who draws the line? Should $300k+ Rolls-Royce's, 100k GT3's, $50k Z06's be allowed on the street when they could potentially endanger the public's finances? Should anyone be allowed to drive anything over $20k? After all, anything more is just conspicuous consumption and a financial danger to the public. If a law did prohibit the street legality of expensive cars, we would be in danger of starting to become either a totalitarian or socialistic state or a combination of both.

However, before I go too far with these arguments, let me put myself in that unlucky truck driver's shoes but worsen the scenario. What if I was behind the CGT and tapped it with my Civic with such force that I damaged the subframe, the tub and parts of the engine? Neither driver is injured, but both cars are totalled and it's my fault. If my insurance covers it, the CGT owner will get his money back and my premiums will be jacked up for a long time. But if the total accident cost is higher than what my insurance covers, what happens to me then? Will my insurance pay as much as possible, say half the price of the CGT, and then the CGT owner will have to cover the rest himself or is he forced to go after me personally for the rest of the amount? And if he goes after me personally, would my future wages be garnished in order to pay off the debt?

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Jun 16, 2004 2:07:04 PM

ben, lj: Expert; Loc:; Posts: 1373, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 6, 2003; Reply to: MAVERICK

Re: CGT: public liability

"But if the total accident cost is higher than what my insurance covers, what happens to me then? Will my insurance pay as much as possible, say half the price of the CGT, and then the CGT owner will have to cover the rest himself or is he forced to go after me personally for the rest of the amount? And if he goes after me personally, would my future wages be garnished in order to pay off the debt?"

what happens is the CGT owner's insurance picks up the difference between your limits and the damage and then his/her insurance sues you for the balance. you will pay that difference or you will file bk. it's that's simple. i don't know where "the line" is either but it's pretty certainly been crossed at a $1/2 mil. crap, even having a guy with $50k limits be unable to pay his children's education because he has to pick up the $40k balance out of pocket on the $90k accident in question (plus the $6k/mth while the car is out of commission) is borderline crappy. this is especially so given the same accident in just about any other car would be sub $10k.

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Jun 16, 2004 2:16:43 PM

Futch: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: EU , United Kingdom; Posts: 4759, Gallery; Registered on: May 14, 2002; Reply to: WBH

Re: CGT accident

Talked to an Enzo owner last week end and he drives his in the "tall" position all the time when in town, he says it's a very useful feature and very thoughtfull of Ferrari to have come up with the idea.
Our SL also has the gadget and proves to be quite useful at times.

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Jun 16, 2004 2:29:45 PM

FixedWing: Veteran; Loc:; Posts: 870, Gallery; Registered on: May 25, 2002; Reply to: ben, lj

Subrogation

Quote:
ben, lj said:
what happens is the CGT owner's insurance picks up the difference between your limits and the damage and then his/her insurance sues you for the balance. you will pay that difference or you will file bk. it's that's simple. i don't know where "the line" is either but it's pretty certainly been crossed at a $1/2 mil. crap, even having a guy with $50k limits be unable to pay his children's education because he has to pick up the $40k balance out of pocket on the $90k accident in question (plus the $6k/mth while the car is out of commission) is borderline crappy. this is especially so given the same accident in just about any other car would be sub $10k.

That is exactly what happens. It is called subrogation. If you are the CGT driver then your insurance company is required to pay your claim under the collision coverage. Your insurer then stands in your shoes and can collect from the at-fault party to the extent that you could. Their insurer will pay to their policy limits and then the driver is responsible for the rest. If it is a CGT it could bankrupt him, deprive him of money for his kids education and deprive him of his retirement funds.

The problem comes that even a US$50K property coverage is still considered liberal by some people. Connecticut sets a minimum property coverage of only $5K (20/40/5). That's not out of line with other states. But it is totally inadequate for an exotic.

I don't think this is about banning cars over a certain value. It is only about who pays. If I am going to drive a CGT then maybe there needs to be no-fault liability above a certain level? My premiums would go up because my insurer wouldn't be able to rely on subrogation. But maybe that is reasonable? I am the one choosing to drive a CGT and obviously that also means I can afford the additional premiums. Why subject some poor sod to the risk I force upon him due to my desire to drive a nice car?

On the other hand, he was the one who made the mistake and he did freely choose to drive on the highways where he at least theoretically should have known that he could have been liabile for these amounts (assuming his subscription to his favourite car magazine hadn't lapsed). Financial planning is everyone responsibility and maybe he should have bought enough insurance in the first place.

I don't really know the answer.

By the way, this only matters in the USA. Most non-USA policies don't have explicit limits.

Stephen

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Jun 16, 2004 3:27:35 PM

teflon: Co-Pilot; Loc: US , United States; Posts: 216, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 13, 2003; Reply to: FixedWing

Re: Subrogation

Larry,

Initially, I discounted Nick's comments about clutch difficulty, but now I'm beginning to agree with him. (I can't believe I just typed that)

One shouldn't have to resort to extreme means to drive a road car on the raod, but have you tried doing the parking brake trick when pulling away on an incline?

Greg A

p.s. For those interested in how the CGT fares in the crash tests, I believe RC posted some photos a few weeks ago.

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Jun 16, 2004 3:46:23 PM

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2002; Reply to: ben, lj

Re: Sorry if I disagree..

"it really fair to drive around these sorts of cars and then have others be responsible for them if they are at-fault in an accident?"

At fault? The guy behinf the CGT must've been riding his ass to still hit him at such low speed. It doesn't matter if the car stalls, it happens all the time in traffic and just because there was a Carrera GT involved it doesn't alleviate responsibility from the truck driver.

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Jun 16, 2004 3:51:21 PM

danny911: Co-Pilot; Loc: Los Angeles; Posts: 224, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 6, 2003; Reply to: ben, lj

Re: CGT accident

Quote:
ben, lj said:
Great job on the 2700 miles in 5 weeks! It's nice to see it getting driven.

As for the responsibility to others, it's just that accidents happen. Ordinary car accidents shouldn't bankrupt people, but if the car they hit is the CGT, they're maybe losing their house and/or their kids aren't going to college without loans. If the guy in the truck was in a commercial truck, he's fired. If he'd have hit any other car, it would have been a couple thousand max and life would have gone on. Something about that doesn't seem right. Many people stretch just to take out the higher limits for a lease - which wouldn't even be close to replacing a totaled CGT.

As an Insurance agent I would advise a fix to this issue. Make sure you are insured properly! Your personal insurance does not cost much in order to have the right limits. If someone driving without insurance, hits a CGT, GT2, Ferrari or any number of exotics that are out on the roads, especially here in SoCal, then they already are not a very responsible person. First they are out on the street driving without insurance, then they rearend a car, any car would be irresponsible! As for being fired, there are wrongful employment laws that would protect this employee, he may be reassigned, but if this is the sole reason, I find it hard to beleive an owner getting away with firing him. Not saying its not possible, just not probable. There are many worse claims, death claims, that cost alot more money, millions, than an accident to an exotic.

Bottom line- someone works hard for many years and wants to enjoy the fruits of their labors, if someone else messes that up for them, they need to pay. And in accidents, that's what insurance is for

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Jun 16, 2004 4:27:37 PM

FixedWing: Veteran; Loc:; Posts: 870, Gallery; Registered on: May 25, 2002; Reply to: Crash

Death penality for car accidents

Quote:
Crash said:
At fault? The guy behinf the CGT must've been riding his ass to still hit him at such low speed. It doesn't matter if the car stalls, it happens all the time in traffic and just because there was a Carrera GT involved it doesn't alleviate responsibility from the truck driver.

No question. If people drove properly there would be no such thing as a traffic accident. No one's questioning that a driver should normally be responsible for the damage he causes.

What this is really about is the extent of the responsibility. Isn't this like giving someone the death penalty for speeding (a strict liability crime)? Sure, he shouldn't have done that. But should be be executed for it? Most would say not. Similarly, should a man be bankrupted for a momentary lapse of concentration? Certainly he should be paying attention. But should he be financially ruined as a consequence?

Stephen

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Jun 16, 2004 4:41:31 PM

FixedWing: Veteran; Loc:; Posts: 870, Gallery; Registered on: May 25, 2002; Reply to: danny911

Limits on insurance

Quote:
danny911 said:
As an Insurance agent I would advise a fix to this issue. Make sure you are insured properly! Your personal insurance does not cost much in order to have the right limits. If someone driving without insurance, hits a CGT, GT2, Ferrari or any number of exotics that are out on the roads, especially here in SoCal, then they already are not a very responsible person. First they are out on the street driving without insurance, then they rearend a car, any car would be irresponsible! ... There are many worse claims, death claims, that cost alot more money, millions, than an accident to an exotic.

Bottom line- someone works hard for many years and wants to enjoy the fruits of their labors, if someone else messes that up for them, they need to pay. And in accidents, that's what insurance is for

Not really talking about the uninsured here. They are violating the law and get what they deserve. But what about the underinsured? These people are at least complying with the letter of the law (even if those requirements are now woefully inadequate).

And as an insurance agent, no question that your advice is good - buy adequate insurance to protect foreseeable claims against your assets.

You mention wrongful death claims. There's a difference. A claimant is usually not going to bother suing a party for an amount beyond their insurance if they have few assets. It isn't worth the effort. Usually they just settle for the policy limits of the insurance. The reason is that damages usually need to be proved in a court and that takes effort.

But property damage is different. Damage to property is usually much more clear. There's usually little need to sue to determine these figures. So if someone were to total an exotic they probably would face a claim in excess of their policy limits.

Add to this the fact that many policies still have split limits. People understand what they need for bodily injury coverage. The problem is that the property damage portion is usually only a fraction of this. On a split policy, how much is the bodily damage limit if the property damage limit were US$50K? I don't know exactly but I suspect that it would be sufficient for most reasonable bodily injury claims. The problem is that a claim for a CGT is not within reason in most parts of the world.

Stephen

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Jun 16, 2004 5:13:15 PM

Larry B: Junior; Loc: Sonoma, California; Posts: 80, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 15, 2002; Reply to: WBH

Re: CGT accident

I have had only one instance of bottoming out and that was attempting to get into the carport at my office. Until I have the driveway lowered, I park on the street. The car began to scrape in the mid-section. Under normal driving, bottoming out has not been a problem. I am replacing the spoiler next week. As I am getting more familar with the car, while the spoiler still scrapes, I am able to control the serverity. The ability to raise the Murcielago allows me to avoid all of the issues which are a problem with the CGT. The Stradale and Gallardo scrape about as often as I use to scrape my 996 Turbo (USA spec's). Not bad at all.

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Jun 16, 2004 5:21:42 PM

Larry B: Junior; Loc: Sonoma, California; Posts: 80, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 15, 2002; Reply to: MAVERICK

Re: CGT accident

Clutch in, car at idle, hand brake on, ready to be released. Release clutch slowly and at the same time release the hand brake slowly as the clutch takes hold, then give light throttle. This works most of the time. It is those times, for whatever reason, concentration is lost, or maybe a fraction of a inch with the clutch, will cause the car to stall. One just starts the entire proceedure over again, as honking behind starts because the people behind will probably miss the signal. Rather funny as I write this and yet not so funny when it all is happening.

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Jun 16, 2004 5:24:09 PM

Larry B: Junior; Loc: Sonoma, California; Posts: 80, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 15, 2002; Reply to: teflon

Re: Subrogation

Greg, please see my reply to "Maverick".

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Jun 16, 2004 5:35:54 PM

CF: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Florida , United States; Posts: 1113, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 30, 2003; Reply to: Larry B

Re: Subrogation

Quote:
Imagine also the poor sod who will be bankrupted because he "only" has US$50K of property damage insurance. Is it really fair to drive around these sorts of cars and then have others be responsible for them if they are at-fault in an accident?

I didn't know Michael Moore was on this Forum.

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Jun 16, 2004 5:44:27 PM

FixedWing: Veteran; Loc:; Posts: 870, Gallery; Registered on: May 25, 2002; Reply to: CF

Re: Subrogation

Quote:
CF said:
I didn't know Michael Moore was on this Forum.

Hahahaha ... You know me CF, I always enjoy arguing the other side. And I especially enjoy questioning that which usually goes unquestioned.

Stephen

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Jun 16, 2004 6:29:25 PM

danny911: Co-Pilot; Loc: Los Angeles; Posts: 224, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 6, 2003; Reply to: Larry B

Re: CGT accident

Quote:
Larry B said:
Clutch in, car at idle, hand brake on, ready to be released. Release clutch slowly and at the same time release the hand brake slowly as the clutch takes hold, then give light throttle. This works most of the time. It is those times, for whatever reason, concentration is lost, or maybe a fraction of a inch with the clutch, will cause the car to stall. One just starts the entire proceedure over again, as honking behind starts because the people behind will probably miss the signal. Rather funny as I write this and yet not so funny when it all is happening.

Larry,

I know you have already driven 2,700 miles, and in any other car this would be sufficient time to get used to a clutch, but obviously this is different. Do you think the time will come, maybe after a few more months, when it will be second nature? That you will be to a point when you can be parked uphill and have no problem? Or is this something that you can just never get used to? I am just curious, you are the resident expert on the CGT, thanks for all the great info BTW!

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Jun 16, 2004 6:36:02 PM

danny911: Co-Pilot; Loc: Los Angeles; Posts: 224, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 6, 2003; Reply to: FixedWing

Re: Limits on insurance

Fixed Wing,

You are correct, you certainly know the subject well, hopefully not from past personal experience!

Property damage is very different than a death claim, and not enough peoples limits are high enough to cover a claim of this magnitude. The only clear solution I see, which has been mentioned, is that the owner pay a higher premium covering any underinsured problems. But the company would still subrogate, so I don't know. This is a tough one, I just hope the guy that hit him, was in a company truck, on company time, that way their insurance can cover it, and hopefully the guy gets a slap on the wrist. I would like to know more on the driver, Nick you may know, seeing as how you live there and already have a bit of solid info. Oh yeah not to mention you seem to know everything

JK

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Jun 16, 2004 7:25:34 PM

FixedWing: Veteran; Loc:; Posts: 870, Gallery; Registered on: May 25, 2002; Reply to: danny911

Re: Limits on insurance

Another way to protect oneself is to refuse a split limit policy and insist on a single-limit policy. I never understood the split limit policy from the buyer's perspective. What does he care the source of the liability? All he wants is to protect his assets.

But again, this takes a sophisticated buyer and let's be honest, the vast majority of auto insurance buyers are not and only think about what is required to get the Certificate of Insurance so that they can register their car and get to work every day. The situation is made even worse by the recent trend to direct sales by mail, phone, internet etc. which cut out the independent agent who was the only advisor that most buyers ever had.

Oh, well.

Stephen

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Jun 16, 2004 9:06:37 PM

W8MM: Rennteam Master; Loc: Cincinnati, OH , United States; Posts: 3995, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 8, 2003; Reply to: Larry B

Re: CGT accident

Larry,

As I read your description of the launching-from-rest issue, I wonder if the problem could be lessened if Porsche were to re-map the e-gas profile of the accelerator pedal.

Perhaps if the initial touch of the gas pedal caused less of the engine power to come on, one could give the car a "little bit" of gas without smoking the rear tires so easily.

It's my impression from far away that the real issue is trying to manage the lack of engine rotary inertia. With no appreciable flywheel energy storage, one can't rely on a "flywheel dump" of energy to move off from rest. If the throttle is extra sensitive on initial take-up, this would really aggravate the situation (if I've guessed correctly).

What do you think?

Cheers,

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Jun 16, 2004 9:47:05 PM

Carlos from Spain: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Spain. , Spain; Posts: 21152, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 9, 2003; Reply to: danny911

Re: CGT accident

Maybe Porsche could install a little electric motor in the trunk that with a push of a button could just get the car moving just enough to then declutch 1st gear like starting on a downhill

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Jun 17, 2004 9:34:12 AM

Boyko23: Veteran; Loc: Sofia , Bulgaria; Posts: 1116, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 27, 2004; Reply to: FixedWing

Re: Subrogation

I know that only Larry knows tha car that well, but for me the clutch problem is part of the game. CGT is a pure super car and its place is on the track most of the time.
I think that in the recent years most of the sports cars became too boring with so many electronics beeing instaled...
CGT is different, it is difficult to drive in the city traffic, but is it so important? Not for me, after the weekend celebration on the nearest racetrack.

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Jun 17, 2004 1:03:21 PM

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2002; Reply to: Boyko23

Re: Subrogation

I just drove behind a Carrera GT on my way home. Now I KNOW why that pickup guy crashed into it. Here's what I did. I was looking... and looking... and looking... and it was getting closer and closer - until I became aware again and slammed the brakes

! The car is so beautiful it should be put in an art gallery.

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Jun 17, 2004 1:23:52 PM

MAVERICK: Veteran; Loc: Cincinnati, OH (USA) , United States; Posts: 1145, Gallery; Registered on: May 31, 2004; Reply to: FixedWing

Re: Limits on insurance

Stephen and Larry,

Thanks for your replies. I shall talk to my agent about raising my liability limits and making sure it's a single-limit policy.

As for whether it's fair or not to drive a CGT on the street, I believe to drive one and have the ability (even if it's your insurance company that is going to do the suing) to financially ruin someone else due to their momentary lapse of concentration or carelessness is unfair, but so is not allowing someone who has worked and earned the right to drive the CGT on the street. After all, the probability of many people damaging a CGT in a traffic accident is extremely low. However, a compromise needs to be reached in the event of rare supercar accident and I suppose one theoretical solution is for individual states to pass a law that requires everyone to have a single-limit liability of at least $500k. But if everyone had to conform to this standard due to the mistakes of a few, would it send the general public's insurance premiums sky high or would the premiums be not that much higher? And if the law requires a minimum liability limit, why not require a minimum bodily injury liability limit of $500k as well. Surely, all these additional limits would increase premiums for everyone, correct?

Another solution would be to place a limit on the insurance company of a CGT owner. They would be able to collect the full amount of the other party's insurance limit but only be allowed to sue the individual at fault for a percentage, say 20%, of one year's income. If the individual doesn't have a yearly income, it's 20% of his personal assets. Any debt still owed would have to be covered by the CGT owner since he is wealthy enough to afford the car. By having this 20% cap, insurance costs and premiums would not have to skyrocket, the CGT owner would realize the risk he is undertaking by driving his supercar on the street, and the careless individual who hit the CGT would learn an expensive lesson to be more careful in traffic when supercars are around yet would not have to suffer financial ruin.

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Jun 17, 2004 2:03:00 PM

ben, lj: Expert; Loc:; Posts: 1373, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 6, 2003; Reply to: MAVERICK

Re: Limits on insurance

"and I suppose one theoretical solution is for individual states to pass a law that requires everyone to have a single-limit liability of at least $500k"

the guy that rear ends the enzo with a $1.2 to $1.3 mil market value is still BK. actual sales for CGTs in the aftermarket are going off in the mid $600k range. even that balance after the $500k would BK most.

btw, i'm not sure i yet understand the difference and benefit of a single limit liability policy. could someone please elaborate?

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Porsche	GT4RS	4/21/24 11:50 AM mcdelaug	391624	1454
Others	Tesla 2 the new thread	12/13/23 2:48 PM CGX car nut	374206	2401
Porsche	Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design	7/3/23 12:30 PM Porker	369283	797
Porsche	Red Nipples 991.2 GT3 Touring on tour	4/11/24 12:32 PM Ferdie	289759	668
Porsche	Collected my 997 GTS today	10/19/23 7:06 PM CGX car nut	261724	812
Lambo	Huracán EVO STO	7/30/23 6:59 PM mcdelaug	240600	346
Lotus	Lotus Emira	6/25/23 2:53 PM Enmanuel	231048	101
Others	Corvette C8	10/16/23 3:24 PM Enmanuel	221516	488
Others	Gordon Murray - T.50	11/22/23 10:27 AM mcdelaug	169734	387
Porsche	Back to basics - 996 GT3 RS	6/11/23 5:13 PM CGX car nut	141481	144
BMW M	2024 BMW M3 CS Official Now	12/29/23 9:04 AM RC	118001	303
Motor Sp.	2023 Formula One	12/19/23 5:38 AM Whoopsy	109085	685
Porsche	2022 992 Safari Model	3/7/24 4:22 PM Whoopsy	84496	239
AMG	Mercedes-Benz W124 500E aka Porsche typ 2758	2/23/24 10:03 PM blueflame	75298	297
Porsche	992 GT3 RS	3/3/24 7:22 PM Whoopsy	54081	314
Motor Sp.	Porsche 963	3/16/24 9:27 PM Whoopsy	25365	237
Ferrari	Ferrari 296 GTB (830PS, Hybrid V6)	1/21/24 4:29 PM GT-Boy	21208	103
BMW M	2022 BMW M5 CS	4/8/24 1:43 PM Ferdie	19573	140
AMG	G63 sold out	9/15/23 7:38 PM Nico997	16624	120
AMG	[2022] Mercedes-AMG SL	4/23/24 1:24 PM RC	13889	225
Motor Sp.	24-Hour race Nürburgring 2018	5/25/23 10:42 PM Grant	11291	55

Crown

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When is driving a CGT unreasonable ???

Re: Sorry if I disagree..

Re: CGT accident

Re: CGT accident

Re: CGT accident

Re: CGT accident

Re: CGT accident

CGT: public liability

Re: CGT: public liability

Re: CGT accident

Subrogation

Re: Subrogation

Re: Sorry if I disagree..

Re: CGT accident

Death penality for car accidents

Limits on insurance

Re: CGT accident

Re: CGT accident

Re: Subrogation

Re: Subrogation

Re: Subrogation

Re: CGT accident

Re: Limits on insurance

Re: Limits on insurance

Re: CGT accident

Re: CGT accident

Re: Subrogation

Re: Subrogation

Re: Limits on insurance

Re: Limits on insurance

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