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    CGT accident

    Anyone know how much the cost of damages are to this CGT? This picture has been circulating the internet. It looks to have been hit from behind, but I don't know the full story. Maybe some of our SoCal friends know the details. From this perspective, it's not a very good track car if you hit something at speed.

    Re: CGT accident

    Ouch! That sucks, I am not sure what you mean by it not being a good track car? An accident is an accident, to me it looks like drivers errror by the CGT owner(backing into a pole etc.) or a rearend. But how that affects its track abilities? Maybe I am just reading you wrong

    Re: CGT accident

    for me

    Re: CGT accident

    The damage doesn't see to be too big, I'd say maximum 5000 USD if there is no damage to carbon parts.

    Re: CGT accident

    the car got readended.

    the estimate for repair was in the 6 figure range.

    it was rear ended by a BIG truck.

    i would say that is a testament to the structural integrity of the car.

    it is impossible to judge the car's accident safety from this information, we don't know how fast it was hit from behind. however, it looks like it is a safe car.

    Re: CGT accident

    Quote:
    Justin said:
    Anyone know how much the cost of damages are to this CGT? This picture has been circulating the internet. It looks to have been hit from behind, but I don't know the full story. Maybe some of our SoCal friends know the details. From this perspective, it's not a very good track car if you hit something at speed.



    Justin,

    I also don't understand your reference to the "trackability" of the car, but I'm sure you'll explain.

    If this car is located near you in San Diego, then it would be a coincidence if it was not the same car that Nick (nberry) told us about in another thread over the weekend.

    Nick initially gave the cost of repair at $200,000, and then later as "$90,000 and still rising", or words to that effect, so we could by now easily be at the $5,000 RC estimated it at.

    After seeing the photograph, my money is on RC's estimate.

    Come to think of it, I'd have put my money on RC even without seeing the photograph.

    Re: CGT accident

    Quote:
    Moogle said:
    the car got readended.

    the estimate for repair was in the 6 figure range.



    May I doubt it?
    Would you tell me where you have this information from?
    What is the damage?
    The 6 figure range would involve a new carbon frame install. I don't see that at all, not from this damage.

    Re: CGT accident

    See Ferrari Board, "360 Traction Control".

    Re: CGT accident



    Watch out for that tree in the garage!!

    Re: CGT accident

    In terms of safety and performance, there's no doubt that this is a wonderful track vehicle. Assuming of course that it won't flip over in a straight line ala Le Mans.

    What I mean to say is that most owners will not be pushing their cars very hard in fear of risking their investment. Then again, you can just as easily total your $110k GT3. We do not know the circumstances of the accident and perhaps it was a severe impact and we should all be impressed with how it held up. But truth be told, everyone who tracks their vehicle should be prepared to some extent for an accident of any kind. I'm trying to play devils advocate here: what if your spin that grazes the tire wall ends up costing you $100k to repair? Admittedly, you will have to push the car to some extent, otherwise it's nothing but a boutique vehicle. Perhaps the owner gets the biggest thrill driving the car at a gingerly pace and has a very low level of risk? But perhaps my point is contradicted by the probability of being rear-ended on the street in America!

    $5000 seems a bit optimistic, but in reality we have no idea what the damage looks like other than what we can see cosmetically in the picture. The entire rear clam is carbon fiber isn't it? That will need replacement and will cost at least a couple thousand + filling and painting. The carbon fiber cover above the diffuser is gone, I have no idea how much that costs. There could be something wrong with the wing, but we'll assume for arguments sake that it's simple out of alignment. Finally, there is another large horizontal panel that needs replacement or perhaps if it has just popped out of place.

    Re: CGT accident

    Quote:
    RC said:
    The damage doesn't see to be too big, I'd say maximum 5000 USD if there is no damage to carbon parts.



    The damage estimate is over $90,000. There was damage to the carbon parts. The car was rear ended at a stop light. The owner stalled ( clutch problem) as he tried to take off resulting in him being rear ended by a truck. It was a very low speed impact.

    I wrote a couple of months ago regarding the safety issue with the clutch. Porsche really should make it user friendly and correct it. Those that like it has it is can opt out.

    Re: CGT accident

    People stall their cars all the time, that doesn't mean it is ok for a vehicle from behind to rear end you! It is said the owner had the car for 10 minutes. Plenty of people would stall a any standard transmission in the first ten minutes of ownership. This is an example of pure stupidity of the truck driver in a state full of rushed drivers without consideration. If he did indeed stall it at a stop light, no blame should rest on Porsche or the owner, just the dumb A#* driver that nailed him from behind!

    Re: CGT accident

    Quote:
    Porsche really should make it user friendly and correct it.


    You were complaining the CGT is not 'exclusive' enough. How 'exclusive' would be a car that could be driven by 89 years-old soccer moms?

    Re: CGT accident

    Quote:
    danny911 said:
    People stall their cars all the time, that doesn't mean it is ok for a vehicle from behind to rear end you! It is said the owner had the car for 10 minutes. Plenty of people would stall a any standard transmission in the first ten minutes of ownership. This is an example of pure stupidity of the truck driver in a state full of rushed drivers without consideration. If he did indeed stall it at a stop light, no blame should rest on Porsche or the owner, just the dumb A#* driver that nailed him from behind!



    No doubt it is the negligence of the truck driver that caused this accident. However as I understand the various writers who drove the CGT the only way to to prevent stalling is either give no gas and let out the clutch or rev it over 4000 rpm's and let out the clutch. Neither option is safe or attractive.

    Re: CGT accident

    Quote:
    Justin said:
    In terms of safety and performance, there's no doubt that this is a wonderful track vehicle. Assuming of course that it won't flip over in a straight line ala Le Mans.

    What I mean to say is that most owners will not be pushing their cars very hard in fear of risking their investment. Then again, you can just as easily total your $110k GT3. We do not know the circumstances of the accident and perhaps it was a severe impact and we should all be impressed with how it held up. But truth be told, everyone who tracks their vehicle should be prepared to some extent for an accident of any kind. I'm trying to play devils advocate here: what if your spin that grazes the tire wall ends up costing you $100k to repair? Admittedly, you will have to push the car to some extent, otherwise it's nothing but a boutique vehicle. Perhaps the owner gets the biggest thrill driving the car at a gingerly pace and has a very low level of risk? But perhaps my point is contradicted by the probability of being rear-ended on the street in America!

    $5000 seems a bit optimistic, but in reality we have no idea what the damage looks like other than what we can see cosmetically in the picture. The entire rear clam is carbon fiber isn't it? That will need replacement and will cost at least a couple thousand + filling and painting. The carbon fiber cover above the diffuser is gone, I have no idea how much that costs. There could be something wrong with the wing, but we'll assume for arguments sake that it's simple out of alignment. Finally, there is another large horizontal panel that needs replacement or perhaps if it has just popped out of place.



    I suspect that given financial profile of typical CGT buyer, the car's pricetag won't stop them from pushing car's limits (car is insured anyway).....and accidents happen periodically to even the most skilled drivers when limits of driver, machine and physics are tested. I know of one early CGT buyer who aggressively drives all his toys and managed to crumple his CGT within its first month; he walked away unscathed and called P to ask for another CGT ASAP......I think the "car worship" phenomenon is less common than alleged.

    Re: CGT accident

    Yeah, that's probably true given the CGT sales volume. I was using comparisons to owners of other, less driven (and perhaps red), supercars.

    Re: CGT accident

    Quote:
    Justin said:
    Yeah, that's probably true given the CGT sales volume. I was using comparisons to owners of other, less driven (and perhaps red), supercars.



    Although some of these same aggressive CGT drivers also have that other "red" car in their garages as well. F has some great stories of how some of these guys were lobbying for 2 copies of the E car at MSRP......they ultimately only got one copy at MSRP.....but that wonderfully efficient secondary mkt still has new E cars available at a price....just in case....

    Re: CGT accident

    If the carbon frame was damaged, the costs will be very very high.

    Otherwise, if its only the PU... not that much!

    Anyway... this hurts

    Re: CGT accident

    Quote:
    Lars996 said:
    If the carbon frame was damaged, the costs will be very very high.

    Otherwise, if its only the PU... not that much!

    Anyway... this hurts



    When we visited the CGT production in Leipzig, we saw how the rear looks alike without the rear bumper.
    I don't see ANY chance of a damaged frame from this picture, we've been told that the CGT accepts a lot of damage (front and rear) without a direct damage to the frame.
    It sounds reasonable, especially since we saw how well "protected" the frame actually is.

    Sorry if I disagree..

    Quote:
    RC said:
    When we visited the CGT production in Leipzig, we saw how the rear looks alike without the rear bumper.
    I don't see ANY chance of a damaged frame from this picture, we've been told that the CGT accepts a lot of damage (front and rear) without a direct damage to the frame.
    It sounds reasonable, especially since we saw how well "protected" the frame actually is.



    Sorry if I disagree.

    I'm not surprised at what PAG told you in Leipzig. Reparability is an issue and they would have been keep to minimise that issue. Your trip was a sales trip after all. Wouldn't you expect them to put their best foot forward?

    Someone recently posted photos of the 30 mph crash impact tests (maybe even you Christian?). Those were a real eye opener. Almost no damage was visible. Yet the car must deform to absorb the impact damage. We are all using our experience with ordinary metal cars to judge this damage. I think those skills offer us very little guidance. But what I do see is body panels not fitting as before and that tells me something must be up underneath.

    I hate to say it but if I had to make a bet I would go with the higher figures...

    Incidentally, can you imagine the reaction of the truck driver and trucking company when told that he has just caused more damage to a car that can still be driven home than he will earn in 3-4 years? Imagine also the poor sod who will be bankrupted because he "only" has US$50K of property damage insurance. Is it really fair to drive around these sorts of cars and then have others be responsible for them if they are at-fault in an accident? Just asking...

    Curious where all of the information on how the accident came from? No one making claims seems to cite to anything.

    Stephen

    Re: Sorry if I disagree..

    RC seems to be correct as far as the proximity of the frame to the accident, but in reality, we have no idea where the energy goes to dissipate itself. Wish we knew more about the accident. As carbon fiber tends to transfer far less energy to the driver than sheet metal (and less, but by a more narrow margin, than fiberglass), it's still a good car to be in during an accident.

    I'm sure the truck driver will be in for one hell of a shock if the bill turns out to be six figures.

    Re: Sorry if I disagree..

    Quote:
    Justin said:
    ...... in reality, we have no idea where the energy goes to dissipate itself.




    Hi Justin,

    If you also have the body-off view of the CGT chassis to hand in digital form - I unfortunately do not at the moment - we'd be able to see that the rear-end crash energy will have been absorbed by the two longitudinal profiled sheet steel energy absorbers sited between the transverse rear bumper bar and the carbon fiber engine/transmission carrier frame. These steel long members are specifically intended to do that job in this kind of situation, except they will have been laid out to take much bigger loads than those arising in this particular accident.

    Re: Sorry if I disagree..

    The reason I posted the picture, is that you can the pair of members in the front and rear of the car. You can also see the more vulnerable areas of the chassis and how far it lies from the rear bumper. I'm very curious to see where Nick got his information. In any case, if those members were damaged (which are presumably attached the the monocoque), they would need replacement which seems to require a bit of disassembly. Could a similar crash into the back of a Boxster of 911 yield a 25% repair fee?

    Re: Sorry if I disagree..

    I estimate $ 70-90.000.

    Re: Sorry if I disagree..

    "it really fair to drive around these sorts of cars and then have others be responsible for them if they are at-fault in an accident?"

    i'm wondering the same thing!

    Re: Sorry if I disagree..

    Quote:
    Justin said:
    The reason I posted the picture, is that you can the pair of members in the front and rear of the car. You can also see the more vulnerable areas of the chassis and how far it lies from the rear bumper. I'm very curious to see where Nick got his information. In any case, if those members were damaged (which are presumably attached the the monocoque), they would need replacement which seems to require a bit of disassembly. Could a similar crash into the back of a Boxster of 911 yield a 25% repair fee?



    I obtained the quote from someone in the know. The carbon parts along the back of the engine mounts were damaged albeit very minor. Based on my observation they needed to be replaced.

    The extent of damage should not surprise anyone. If a Enzo is rear ended, I suspect similar damage.

    BTW, the car is way toooo low. Owners will need to buy spare replacement front panels. I cannot imagine anyone negotiating a driveway without almost tearing apart the front end.

    Re: Sorry if I disagree..

    Quote:
    Justin said:
    In any case, if those members were damaged (which are presumably attached the the monocoque), they would need replacement which seems to require a bit of disassembly. Could a similar crash into the back of a Boxster of 911 yield a 25% repair fee?



    Hi Justin,

    Disassembly is the right expression, because it would be a "nut and bolt" job, entirely replacing damaged components with new ones. These components will certainly be relatively expensive items compared with mass-produced conventional sheet steel pressings, but labor costs should be transparent. The structural integrity of the car after repair will be good if all damaged parts are replaced.

    With a conventional welded sheet metal body it would be a question of very messy cutting, grinding, welding, more grinding, priming, painting, .......... and the customer hoping that all the parts had been correctly rust-proofed in the process. High labor costs, relatively low material costs, structural integrity of the repaired car depends very much on the reliability of the repair shop.

    Take your pick.

    Re: Sorry if I disagree..

    Quote:
    nberry said:

    I obtained the quote from someone in the know.




    it would far more convincing if you were more specific on your 'source'.

    Re: Sorry if I disagree..

    Quote:
    Luke R said:
    Quote:
    nberry said:

    I obtained the quote from someone in the know.




    it would far more convincing if you were more specific on your 'source'.



    Hey if you wish not to believe me so be it. I saw the damage with the bumper and cover for the engine off.

    As to how it happened the driver was learning from a technician how to drive the car. The accident occurred at the traffic light of Miramar and Miramar Way. The car was pointed north and was not moving when it was rear ended by the truck who was waiting behind it for the light to change. When the light changed the CGT stalled and the truck give it a $90,000 love tap.

    Re: Sorry if I disagree..

    is it going to Germany or West Coast Specialties?

     
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