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    Mobil 1 Engine Failures

    I was at a car club (different than Porsche) tech session last Saturday where they discussed oils. During the discussion someone in the audience commented that they had heard about a number of engine failures occurring using Mobil 1 (including a number of Porsche engines). A couple of others in the audience commented that they heard something similiar. Details seemed to be sketchy, but the only fact that seemed continuous was that the failures were occuring using a Mobil 1 oil weight other than 0W40 (i.e., Mobil 1 0W40 was not causing any problems). Anyone hear of anything?

    Re: Mobil 1 Engine Failures

    have not hear anything of such... even at PSDS

    Re: Mobil 1 Engine Failures

    Mobil 1 formula has changed recently (for the worse) to comply with new emissions regulations. Look at the OIL section here:

    www.lnengineering.com

    Re: Mobil 1 Engine Failures

    Grant,
    Thanks for the website info. If this is the case, it brings up an interesting paradox. That is, for new Porsche owners to maintain warrantee, you have to use Mobil 1 0W40. But if one uses Mobil 1 0W40 (to hold warrantee) then one risks an engine failure due to the low Zn content. Sure Porsche would replace one's engine if it failed due to a warranteed demanded product (Mobil 1). But the effort to prove the failure was due to oil could be challenging. Furthermore, if one used the warrantee required Mobil 1 0W40 during the warrantee period, but the engine finally failed soon after warrantee another challenge could be faced. The comment about SWAPCO also caught my eye.

    Re: Mobil 1 Engine Failures

    Quote:
    Alpine said:
    Grant,
    Thanks for the website info. If this is the case, it brings up an interesting paradox. That is, for new Porsche owners to maintain warrantee, you have to use Mobil 1 0W40. But if one uses Mobil 1 0W40 (to hold warrantee) then one risks an engine failure due to the low Zn content. Sure Porsche would replace one's engine if it failed due to a warranteed demanded product (Mobil 1). But the effort to prove the failure was due to oil could be challenging. Furthermore, if one used the warrantee required Mobil 1 0W40 during the warrantee period, but the engine finally failed soon after warrantee another challenge could be faced. The comment about SWAPCO also caught my eye.



    If you check with a Porsche dealer you'll find that your "assumption" that you have to use Mobil 1 0W40 to retain your Porsche Warranty is in fact FAR from the truth. Your dealer could provide you with a tech bulletin listing oils approved by Porsche.

    Porsche "recommends" Mobil 1, but "approves" dozens of oil brands and types. Big difference.

    Re: Mobil 1 Engine Failures

    Quote:
    fritz said:

    Porsche "recommends" Mobil 1, but "approves" dozens of oil brands and types. Big difference.



    Curious. I thought Porsche only approved Mobil 1 0W-40 and 5W-40. Which other specific oil brands and wts. does Porsche approve?

    Re: Mobil 1 Engine Failures

    Quote:
    Alpine said:
    Grant,
    Thanks for the website info. If this is the case, it brings up an interesting paradox. That is, for new Porsche owners to maintain warrantee, you have to use Mobil 1 0W40. But if one uses Mobil 1 0W40 (to hold warrantee) then one risks an engine failure due to the low Zn content. Sure Porsche would replace one's engine if it failed due to a warranteed demanded product (Mobil 1). But the effort to prove the failure was due to oil could be challenging. Furthermore, if one used the warrantee required Mobil 1 0W40 during the warrantee period, but the engine finally failed soon after warrantee another challenge could be faced. The comment about SWAPCO also caught my eye.



    Sounds like snake oil sales talk to me. I'll stick with what Porsche recommends.

    Re: Mobil 1 Engine Failures

    Quote:
    Over the Hill said:Sounds like snake oil sales talk to me. I'll stick with what Porsche recommends.


    Some of the top Porsche race shops in the world are having their customers switch away from Mobil 1. Call it what you like, but these people are in an excellent place to judge the performance of motor oil used in motors that they tear down and rebuild...

    Re: Mobil 1 Engine Failures

    Quote:
    Circe said:
    Quote:
    fritz said:

    Porsche "recommends" Mobil 1, but "approves" dozens of oil brands and types. Big difference.



    Curious. I thought Porsche only approved Mobil 1 0W-40 and 5W-40. Which other specific oil brands and wts. does Porsche approve?



    Just about any brand known to man, but the same viscosities in all the brands, naturally, and only synthetics. Too many for me to even think of typing here, which is why I told you to check your dealer.

    Re: Mobil 1 Engine Failures

    Quote:
    Grant said:
    Quote:
    Over the Hill said:Sounds like snake oil sales talk to me. I'll stick with what Porsche recommends.


    Some of the top Porsche race shops in the world are having their customers switch away from Mobil 1. Call it what you like, but these people are in an excellent place to judge the performance of motor oil used in motors that they tear down and rebuild...



    Or they have sponsorship deals, as Porsche does with Mobil.

    Re: Mobil 1 Engine Failures

    Quote:
    fritz said:
    Too many for me to even think of typing here, which is why I told you to check your dealer.



    Thanks.

    Re: Mobil 1 Engine Failures

    Quote:
    fritz said:
    Quote:
    Grant said:
    Quote:
    Over the Hill said:Sounds like snake oil sales talk to me. I'll stick with what Porsche recommends.


    Some of the top Porsche race shops in the world are having their customers switch away from Mobil 1. Call it what you like, but these people are in an excellent place to judge the performance of motor oil used in motors that they tear down and rebuild...



    Or they have sponsorship deals, as Porsche does with Mobil.


    I don't think so, since they offered a bunch of alternatives - not trying to push any brand in particular. Most consistent advice was to avoid any oil that conform to the new "SM" designation which means it would have important additives reduced.

    Mobil 1 has an SM rating now (except its motorcycle formulas - those are fine, but may shorten life of catalytic converter)

    Re: Mobil 1 Engine Failures

    Quote:
    fritz said:
    Quote:
    Alpine said:
    Grant,
    Thanks for the website info. If this is the case, it brings up an interesting paradox. That is, for new Porsche owners to maintain warrantee, you have to use Mobil 1 0W40. But if one uses Mobil 1 0W40 (to hold warrantee) then one risks an engine failure due to the low Zn content. Sure Porsche would replace one's engine if it failed due to a warranteed demanded product (Mobil 1). But the effort to prove the failure was due to oil could be challenging. Furthermore, if one used the warrantee required Mobil 1 0W40 during the warrantee period, but the engine finally failed soon after warrantee another challenge could be faced. The comment about SWAPCO also caught my eye.



    If you check with a Porsche dealer you'll find that your "assumption" that you have to use Mobil 1 0W40 to retain your Porsche Warranty is in fact FAR from the truth. Your dealer could provide you with a tech bulletin listing oils approved by Porsche.

    Porsche "recommends" Mobil 1, but "approves" dozens of oil brands and types. Big difference.



    Thanks Friz for catching my bad assumption. Appreciate the dealer oil tech bulletin information. Will follow-up.

    Re: Mobil 1 Engine Failures

    Just broke 40k miles. No problems.

    Re: Mobil 1 Engine Failures

    Interesting. I'll check with my dealer the next time I get an oil and filter change. As the dealer is owned by Roger Penske's auto group, I'm sure they'll be on top of any required changes. They did send me an email a few weeks ago reminding me to come in for an oil and filter change, and when I reach 10,000 miles, I'll set that up.

    On another post, and I can't remember which one exactly, I found out from someone else the list of oils that Porsche approves for use (synthetics only), and it is, as Fritz said, extensive. I made the same mistake of assuming that Porsche only approved of Mobil 1, but that is definitely not true.

    Jim

    Re: Mobil 1 Engine Failures

    Quote:
    Holminator said:
    Just broke 40k miles. No problems.


    Tony - the new "SM" version of Mobil 1 is very new. Most (if not none) of those 40k miles are with the new stuff, I would guess...

    Re: Mobil 1 Engine Failures

    Well, I called my dealer this afternoon. The service manager did confirm that Mobil 1 is not the only brand approved by Porsche. He searched his computer records and found a service bulletin issued on April 11, 07 listing oil brands. Trouble is, he couldn't open the bulletin on his screen. I gave him my email address and asked him to send me the list once he got his page opened. When (if) it comes I'll post it.

    Re: Mobil 1 Engine Failures

    I am using Mobil 1 5W50 in my 997s. It is only available through a distributor not retail locations. I am also adding GM EOS to bump up the ZDDP levels. I attached a porsche approved oil list.

    Re: Mobil 1 Engine Failures

    I'm not sure this is the most up to date list, but it is/was the approved oils list - i changed my own oil at 10k miles/1 year, and yesterday had the dealer do the first due service at 18.5k miles (almost 2 years). In both cases i used Fuchs Titan Supersyn 5W40. I like to think (although unlikely) that the slightly higher cold viscosity helps avoid RMS weeping.

    I had no issue with the dealer using my supplied oil.

    Re: Mobil 1 Engine Failures

    The TSB you refer to is available for download over on renntech.org. you need to pay a minimal one off fee to become a contributing member to use the facility , but its well worth it.

    Re: Mobil 1 Engine Failures

    Quote:
    Circe said:
    Quote:
    fritz said:
    Too many for me to even think of typing here, which is why I told you to check your dealer.



    Thanks.



    Do I detect a touch of sarcasm in that "Thanks"?

    Couldn't blame you if there was, as my above answer would not have seemed particularly helpful.

    But if you checked out out the Attachment to Percymon's post you'll see I didn't exaggerate about the list being extensive, though I did remember it being even longer.
    Why, there are even a couple of oil brands from the People's Republic of China. I haven't been able to get them locally so far, but it's probably only a matter of time till we do.

    Re: Mobil 1 Engine Failures

    Some time back one post stated that Porsche had changed the service - that is, the oil and filter change - interval from 20,000 miles down to (if I remember correctly) 10,000 miles. Is the change to Mobil 1 the reason, and are other oil brands (I suspect they are) being forced to make downgrades due to emissions requirements?

    Jim

    Re: Mobil 1 Engine Failures

    I was at my dealers service dept. last week asking about the oil change intervals and he mentioned that Porsche had to revise their required oil changes down to 12,000 miles from 20,000 because original calcs were done using 20,000 km, not "miles", which I guess would make sense seeing that 20,000 kilometers equals 12,427 miles.

    Re: Mobil 1 Engine Failures

    That's VERY good to know. Thanks!

    Re: Mobil 1 Engine Failures

    Thanks for the updated information. Now I understand why my dealer is emailing me to bring my 911S in for an oil and filter change at around 10,000 miles. Also, I'm getting near the two-year mark, where I guess they replace the filter that cleans out any air coming in through the cooling/heating/ventilation system and the air cleaner, too.

    Jim

    Re: Mobil 1 Engine Failures

    Quote:
    fritz said:

    Do I detect a touch of sarcasm in that "Thanks"?

    Couldn't blame you if there was, as my above answer would not have seemed particularly helpful.




    How'd you guess? No worries, I took it in stride.

    You are right, though. There seems to be a ton of oil brands according to percymon's attachment. I emailed a second dealer this afternoon requesting the updated list. Hopefully one of the two dealers I have contacted will come through. I'll publish the list when I get it.

    Re: Mobil 1 Engine Failures

    Oil should be changed at a minimum every 10,000 miles or one year whatever is less.

    Re: Mobil 1 Engine Failures

    I think this is pure marketing gimmick.

    I had the opportunity to talk to an engineer in charge of some engine development at Renault (OK I know it is not Porsche) and he told me that in order to approve an oil (brand or type), they were running the engine for 100,000km (approx 60,500 miles) with the same oil, then they were sending the oil to a lab and its characteristics had to be within -10-15% of the brand new one.

    He also told me that oil manufacturers are adding some chemicals that will gradually change the oil color so you will think it's high time to change it ...

    OK Porsche engines are much sportier and 100,000km is may be way too much .... but 10,000km is may be a bit too frequent.

    This being said, I change it every 10,000km, it's a type of feel good factor.

    Re: Mobil 1 Engine Failures

    Quote:
    woody77 said:
    I was at my dealers service dept. last week asking about the oil change intervals and he mentioned that Porsche had to revise their required oil changes down to 12,000 miles from 20,000 because original calcs were done using 20,000 km, not "miles", which I guess would make sense seeing that 20,000 kilometers equals 12,427 miles.



    Considering the number of different people you would expect to check things like oil-change interval specs in a car company before they got approved for publication, printed and distributed to customers that kind of statement should have instantly sent your bullsh!t-meter to the top of its range.
    Oil change intervals for the 997 in western Europe are 30,000 km, which is the "rounded" equivalent of 20,000 miles, so I guess that burst your service tech's theory like a soap bubble.

    Re: Mobil 1 Engine Failures

    Quote:
    fritz said:
    Quote:
    woody77 said:
    I was at my dealers service dept. last week asking about the oil change intervals and he mentioned that Porsche had to revise their required oil changes down to 12,000 miles from 20,000 because original calcs were done using 20,000 km, not "miles", which I guess would make sense seeing that 20,000 kilometers equals 12,427 miles.



    Considering the number of different people you would expect to check things like oil-change interval specs in a car company before they got approved for publication, printed and distributed to customers that kind of statement should have instantly sent your bullsh!t-meter to the top of its range.
    Oil change intervals for the 997 in western Europe are 30,000 km, which is the "rounded" equivalent of 20,000 miles, so I guess that burst your service tech's theory like a soap bubble.



    I would agree with you, as the sales manual given out at the introduction of the 997 (August 2004 in the US) specifically stated an extension of the service interval from 12,000 to 20,000 miles. I would assume that Porsche had a good translation done of the original one from German to English.

    In any case, I will probably have my oil and filter changed in November, as it will have been one year.

    Also, as an aside, my oil consumption dropped significantly after the first oil and filter change. During the first 5392 miles (about 8600 km), it consumed about 2.25 l of oil. Since then (I now have 9100 miles, or about 14600 km), I have only added 200 ml, and that was last week, after 3566 miles, or 5700 km.

    I have read the arguments on this site about the reasons for changing or about whether one is overly concerned about oil and filter changes, but I will get mine changed in November as one year will have gone by. Spending $200-600 US (including changing air filters) is inexpensive as far as I am concerned. If I had more time, I'd do most of the basic servicing myself.

    Jim

     
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