Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: The great Carrera GT acceleration lie ? - Page3

Jul 11, 2007 12:59:17 AM

W8MM: Rennteam Master; Loc: Cincinnati, OH , United States; Posts: 3995, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 8, 2003; Reply to: TB993tt

Re: The great Carrera GT acceleration lie ?

Quote:
TB993tt said:I logged 9 runs and am confident that the "logging box" was accurate. "Powershifting" is being put forward by others as a possible route to the Porsche times but the 4 shifts would only amount to a ~2.5s saving if there was zero interruption to forward progress...

Have you taken into account corrections for air density between your testing and Porsche testing conditions?

Click me!(Sorry about the pop-unders)

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Jul 11, 2007 2:18:09 PM

TB993tt: Rennteam Pro; Loc: manchester , United Kingdom; Posts: 2280, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 22, 2002; Reply to: Crash

Re: The great Carrera GT acceleration lie ?

W8MM
I just checked the atmospheric pressure for last Saturday and coincidentally the conditions for the run were exactly at DIN so the CGT should have had its full power -who knows what conditions Porsche tested under - some fresh info next week hopefully.......

Air temp was 20degC pressure was 1014mb

K = 1014/1013 * ((273+20)/293)1/2
K= 1.00098

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Jul 11, 2007 4:19:53 PM

911digital: Veteran; Loc: Staffordshire , United Kingdom; Posts: 833, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 2, 2005; Reply to: TB993tt

Re: The great Carrera GT acceleration lie ?

Quote:
TB993tt said:
W8MM
I just checked the atmospheric pressure for last Saturday and coincidentally the conditions for the run were exactly at DIN so the CGT should have had its full power -who knows what conditions Porsche tested under - some fresh info next week hopefully.......

Air temp was 20degC pressure was 1014mb

K = 1014/1013 * ((273+20)/293)1/2
K= 1.00098

There are a number of factors which can cause loss of accleration.

I'm not sure if you have ever encountred this strange loss on any car you drive but you may have gone out in your car and once it's fully warmed up you go to open it up but for some bizare reason the car doesnt respond like it should and feels sluggish although there isnt any bad idle or misfiring, just that it doesnt go as it should.

I've raced many cars which have more bhp and are faster than mine yet they either struggle to come passed or they dont come passed at all.

Prime example was when i would come passed my brothers gti, in my 1.3 escort 7 year ago, 99% of the time the gti would leave it standing and so it should, but on some occasions the escort would have like have a power surge and keep pace with the gti normaly from 25 mph to 70mph.

But every car i've owned has had a day of feeling sluggish and a day feeling like it's running on rocket fuel.

I'm not sure what causes this, when the airs cold at night the engine will feel more responsive but this doesnt account for the days when it's warm yet it's acting like a nasa jet engine..........

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Jul 11, 2007 4:24:20 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59590, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: CGT1178

Re: The great Carrera GT acceleration lie ?

Quote:
CGT1178 said:
when the performance box will arrive i will show you every thing .. in the next time i advise you to be alone in the car with 1/4 tank and shift on 8,350rpm (quick shifting) .. before you calculate your time you must reach 330km or 350km if you can 2 times after that wait for 1-3 hours and start calculating
(sorry about my bad english )

Sorry to burst your bubble but I don't know of a SINGLE original factory specs CGT doing a time (several runs, taking middle value) below 30 seconds from 0-300 kph.
Among the cars driven by the Rennteam Editors, there is also a privately owned Carrera GT.

On the other hand, let me ask you something else: is it really THAT important if the CGT does 0-300 kph in 30 seconds or 34 or 28? The CGT is fun driving, if you want to achieve sensational 0-300 kph acceleration times, I can have a word with Alois Ruf and his men and I bet you get at least a 0-300 kph in 25 seconds monster out of the deal.

The Carrera GT is about ENJOYING, not drag racing.
I don't want to offend anybody but this is how I view things.

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Jul 11, 2007 4:32:52 PM

TB993tt: Rennteam Pro; Loc: manchester , United Kingdom; Posts: 2280, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 22, 2002; Reply to: RC

Re: The great Carrera GT acceleration lie ?

RC -if Porsche managed to do 0-300 in ~27s then I want to know how, simple as that, CURIOSITY

I suspect the answer will be a combination of lightweight non optioned car with driver only, good atmo conditions and ruthless technique......

Of course you are right, for the CGT 0-300 is unimportant and I know well why the CGT is relatively slow after 160mph, it has a high drag which gives it the superb stability which makes it such a great car....

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Jul 11, 2007 4:35:00 PM

911digital: Veteran; Loc: Staffordshire , United Kingdom; Posts: 833, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 2, 2005; Reply to: Crash

Re: The great Carrera GT acceleration lie ?

Quote:
Crash said:
Quote:
CGT1178 said:
when the performance box will arive i will show you every thing .. in the next time i advise you to be alone in the car with 1/4 tank .. and before you calculate your time you must reach 330km or 350km if you can 2 times after that wait for 1-3 hours and start calculating
(sorry about my bad english )

If yours is bad, I wonder what you consider to be good English .

Bad english, just listen to a scatman john cd, although it's not bad english just verbal gibberish tongue gabbling

Back to the CGT it's a great car, the engineering allows to remain not only stable at high speed but it will also contioniously travel at high speed.

I would have thought it would sit at at least 165mph all day long, it depends on what speed your doing by the time the revs are on the verge of the redline.

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Jul 11, 2007 6:26:27 PM

edz: Rennteam Pro; Loc: South Orange County; Posts: 2022, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 11, 2005; Reply to: trip

Re: The great Carrera GT acceleration lie ?

Quote:
trip said:
WBH are you implying that the Cl63 and 599 have better high speed stability than a CGT or Enzo? Have you ever heard of a thing called downforce. For sh!t's sake you just compared a CGT to a CL63!!!! You obviously are on drugs!!! please realize, the CL63 is not the best car in the world, not even close!

I would like to 2nd that, good kinds of drugs BTW.

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Jul 11, 2007 9:50:42 PM

CGT1178: Co-Pilot; Loc: kuwait; Posts: 216, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 26, 2006; Reply to: RC

Re: The great Carrera GT acceleration lie ?

RC .. you are right 100%

.. if i want fast car i will buy 996tt with 910hp from 9ff or ...etc .. but i buy the cgt to enjoy every thing in it (looks .. sound.. drive.. handling .. performance ..etc) for me its the best supercar ever

.. i cant find this combinations in any car in the world eccept the cgt !

.. i calculate the numbers for the cgt(0-300) just to know

.. i like the numbers

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Jul 12, 2007 12:12:53 AM

CarreraGtRacer: Veteran; Loc: Houston, TX; Posts: 1181, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 1, 2004; Reply to: CGT1178

Re: The great Carrera GT acceleration lie ?

it's still faster then the 599 that's for sure

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Jul 12, 2007 8:44:53 AM

CGT1178: Co-Pilot; Loc: kuwait; Posts: 216, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 26, 2006; Reply to: CarreraGtRacer

Re: The great Carrera GT acceleration lie ?

CarreraGtRacer : much faster trust me

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Jul 12, 2007 1:58:15 PM

bostonmini: Veteran; Loc:; Posts: 924, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 31, 2003; Reply to: RC

Re: The great Carrera GT acceleration lie ?

Quote:
RC said:
Quote:
CGT1178 said:
when the performance box will arrive i will show you every thing .. in the next time i advise you to be alone in the car with 1/4 tank and shift on 8,350rpm (quick shifting) .. before you calculate your time you must reach 330km or 350km if you can 2 times after that wait for 1-3 hours and start calculating
(sorry about my bad english )

Sorry to burst your bubble but I don't know of a SINGLE original factory specs CGT doing a time (several runs, taking middle value) below 30 seconds from 0-300 kph.
Among the cars driven by the Rennteam Editors, there is also a privately owned Carrera GT.

On the other hand, let me ask you something else: is it really THAT important if the CGT does 0-300 kph in 30 seconds or 34 or 28? The CGT is fun driving, if you want to achieve sensational 0-300 kph acceleration times, I can have a word with Alois Ruf and his men and I bet you get at least a 0-300 kph in 25 seconds monster out of the deal.

The Carrera GT is about ENJOYING, not drag racing.
I don't want to offend anybody but this is how I view things.

I couldnt agree more, porsche didnt make it a topless NA engined lightweight race car to record 0-60 times, the car is the whole package, and for anyone, it has sufficient acceleration; the car is much like a GT3, about quick circuit driving, and wonderful feel/sound etc....not a veyron for generating numbers...

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Jul 13, 2007 8:23:44 PM

hugo: Pilot; Loc: Ro , Romania; Posts: 369, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 4, 2007; Reply to: bostonmini

Re: The great Carrera GT acceleration lie ?

all the a/m are just excuses,if the cgt performed better 0-300 number all the ENJOYING bs would not have been brought up.0-300 is not drag racing(0-100 is)and quick circuit driving should not compromise acceleration numbers,see RUF example again,truth is that the cgt as well as the lp640, 599gtb and the 722 slr just fail to reach the mark.

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Jul 15, 2007 1:27:02 PM

CGT1178: Co-Pilot; Loc: kuwait; Posts: 216, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 26, 2006; Reply to: TB993tt

Re: The great Carrera GT acceleration lie ?

TB993tt
i want to ask you about the graph in the performancebox .. how can i use it and what you choose for it(for the km/h-time) ?

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Jul 18, 2007 8:49:56 AM

TB993tt: Rennteam Pro; Loc: manchester , United Kingdom; Posts: 2280, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 22, 2002; Reply to: CGT1178

Re: The great Carrera GT acceleration lie ?

Quote:
CGT1178 said:
TB993tt
i want to ask you about the graph in the performancebox .. how can i use it and what you choose for it(for the km/h-time) ?

I have the Driftbox but presume it is similar to the Performance box ?
Attach the unit to your screen and when you want to start recording data push the memory card into the slot, it bleeps twice and this indicates that it is recording data. When you have finished remove the card and it stops.

Load the software onto your PC, plug the card into a reader, get the data from "Run" "all Files" and it should load up in the software showing you a graph of the whole run.

Play around with the various tools at the top of the graph. Trim data before and after the bits you are interested in and then you can adjust for kph/mph and other things in the "axis" tool.

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Jul 18, 2007 8:54:18 AM

TB993tt: Rennteam Pro; Loc: manchester , United Kingdom; Posts: 2280, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 22, 2002; Reply to: TB993tt

Re: The great Carrera GT acceleration lie ?

Latest information which is from people at Porsche involved in the development of the CGT is that their numbers are correct and done without special techniques.

They listed the usual variables which may have caused my numbers to be bad but one stuck out as being quite important.

Apparently the surface on which the run is carried out makes a very big difference. The surface of my runs is not smooth, very grippy with lots of bitumen repair lines - the tyres make a lot of noise over the surface indicating (to me) that a lot of energy is being lost into the surface.......
This is the only explanation so far - CGT1178, can you find some nice smooooth tarmac

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Jul 19, 2007 9:03:43 AM

CGT1178: Co-Pilot; Loc: kuwait; Posts: 216, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 26, 2006; Reply to: TB993tt

Re: The great Carrera GT acceleration lie ?

thank you so much

..i will try it when i get well because im very sick now

.. my cgt now on majer service and there is some thing recall in the engine (our majer service in kuwait is 10,000km because our weather is too hot in summer)(change: drive belt ,sparge blugs,oil and filter,air filter) .

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Aug 1, 2007 10:02:00 PM

CGT1178: Co-Pilot; Loc: kuwait; Posts: 216, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 26, 2006; Reply to: CGT1178

Re: The great Carrera GT acceleration lie ?

I calculated my cgt numbers from 100-300 km/h by the perfomance box in hot weather .. the number was very good but i can bring better than that in the cold weather

.. i will put the graph of the CGT acceleration (100-300) when the weather will be cold .. my target is 27 seconds (0-300)

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Aug 1, 2007 10:06:16 PM

MKSGR: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 8098, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2002; Reply to: CGT1178

Re: The great Carrera GT acceleration lie ?

Quote:
CGT1178 said:
I calculated my cgt numbers from 100-300 km/h by the perfomance box in hot weather .. the number was very good but i can bring better than that in the cold weather .. i will put the graph of the CGT acceleration (100-300) when the weather will be cold .. my target is 27 seconds (0-300)

What was the number you achived in hot weather conditions

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Aug 2, 2007 8:40:04 AM

CGT1178: Co-Pilot; Loc: kuwait; Posts: 216, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 26, 2006; Reply to: MKSGR

Re: The great Carrera GT acceleration lie ?

i will tell you after

.. its much faster than my 997tt (540hp)

.. the carrera gt from 2nd to 5th gear is a rocket !! but when you shift to the 6th it will be slower because of that when you calculate the CGT acceleration from 100-270 km/h u will see amazing number .. if any one have the enzo acc. number from 100-270 or 0-270 please let me know .

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Aug 2, 2007 9:08:09 AM

Boyko23: Veteran; Loc: Sofia , Bulgaria; Posts: 1116, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 27, 2004; Reply to: CGT1178

Re: The great Carrera GT acceleration lie ?

Quote:
CGT1178 said:
i will tell you after .. its much faster than my 997tt (540hp) .. the carrera gt from 2nd to 5th gear is a rocket !! but when you shift to the 6th it will be slower because of that when you calculate the CGT acceleration from 100-270 km/h u will see amazing number .. if any one have the enzo acc. number from 100-270 or 0-270 please let me know .

I had seen a test in a magazine long time ago with such test and the difference between CGT and Enzo from 0-270km/h was minor - at about 2 or 3 seconds

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Aug 2, 2007 9:29:55 AM

TB993tt: Rennteam Pro; Loc: manchester , United Kingdom; Posts: 2280, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 22, 2002; Reply to: Boyko23

Re: The great Carrera GT acceleration lie ?

CGT1178 stop teasing us

what time did you manage 100-300kph. Sure you can better it later in cooler weather but give us a teaser.
The 100-270kph on my runs was about 20s, like you say 6th gear really slows up as the drag and longer gear take their toll....

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Aug 2, 2007 9:40:19 AM

CGT1178: Co-Pilot; Loc: kuwait; Posts: 216, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 26, 2006; Reply to: TB993tt

Re: The great Carrera GT acceleration lie ?

TB993tt .. ok .. just 1 number

.. 100-270 km/h = 15.6 s .. (38*c !! )

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Aug 2, 2007 10:21:47 AM

TB993tt: Rennteam Pro; Loc: manchester , United Kingdom; Posts: 2280, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 22, 2002; Reply to: CGT1178

Re: The great Carrera GT acceleration lie ?

That it massively quicker than the runs I did, can we see a graph with long Gs on it

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Aug 2, 2007 10:33:29 AM

CGT1178: Co-Pilot; Loc: kuwait; Posts: 216, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 26, 2006; Reply to: TB993tt

Re: The great Carrera GT acceleration lie ?

TB993tt
sure .. but not now

.. there is something strange , when the pbox(gps) reached 300km/h the speedo was around 314 km/h !!

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Aug 2, 2007 11:15:07 AM

CGT1178: Co-Pilot; Loc: kuwait; Posts: 216, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 26, 2006; Reply to: CGT1178

Re: The great Carrera GT acceleration lie ?

my CGT 100-200= 6.3 s (38*C) i can bring better
ENZO 100-200= 6.7 s
F599 100-200= 6.8 s
LP640 100-200= 7.8 s
SLR 100-200= 7.4 s
Ford GT 100-200= 8.1 s

i will show you the graph of my CGT after (enshallah)

http://img232.imageshack.us/my.php?image=9ow4.jpg

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Aug 2, 2007 1:04:08 PM

ha: Expert; Loc: Riyadh , Saudi Arabia; Posts: 1695, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 20, 2003; Reply to: Boyko23

Re: The great Carrera GT acceleration lie ?

This was published by an Italian magazine a while back..

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Aug 2, 2007 10:15:32 PM

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2002; Reply to: ha

Re: The great Carrera GT acceleration lie ?

Yes, these numbers have been debated before. CGT, what did you base the 100-270 km/h run on? GPS or speedo? The discrepancy seems huge.

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Aug 3, 2007 9:40:45 AM

CGT1178: Co-Pilot; Loc: kuwait; Posts: 216, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 26, 2006; Reply to: Crash

Re: The great Carrera GT acceleration lie ?

Crash
GPS for sure (performance box) ..
ha : thank you

my CGT(15.6s(38*c)) is much faster than that enzo(100-270=17.52s) !! .. you need to drive the CGT very good to bring good numbers because it has manual gearbox.. if you miss 100 rpm you will loss a power not same the turbo charge engine.. and you need very very fast shifting to minimize the different between the cgt gearbox and the enzo gearbox(f1, o.1 second from gear to gear!!) the enzo is easyer to drive because it has F1 gearbox ..

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Aug 3, 2007 10:00:14 AM

CGT1178: Co-Pilot; Loc: kuwait; Posts: 216, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 26, 2006; Reply to: CGT1178

Re: The great Carrera GT acceleration lie ?

all this numbers just for fun

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Aug 3, 2007 10:02:16 AM

TB993tt: Rennteam Pro; Loc: manchester , United Kingdom; Posts: 2280, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 22, 2002; Reply to: CGT1178

Re: The great Carrera GT acceleration lie ?

Quote:
CGT1178 said:
Crash
GPS for sure (performance box) ..
ha : thank you
my CGT(15.6s(38*c)) is much faster than that enzo(100-270=17.52s) !! .. you need to drive the CGT very good to bring good numbers because it has manual gearbox.. if you miss 100 rpm you will loss a power not same the turbo charge engine.. and you need very very fast shifting to minimize the different between the cgt gearbox and the enzo gearbox(f1, o.1 second from gear to gear!!) the enzo is easyer to drive because it has F1 gearbox ..

CGT1178
Post the damn graph so I can see how poor my driving is

Seriously, I will PM you with a email address if you would be so kind as to share your PB files, so I can really analyse how and where you shave the time

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