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    VW Touareg - Special Edition with 450 HP and W12 engine

    VW just announced a special edition of the VW Touareg.
    Engine: W12 engine with 450 HP, price tag around 90000(!) Euro, substantially cheaper than the Cayenne Turbo.
    Two series are planned, 333 cars for the Middle East and 100 cars for Europe.
    A little birdy told me that if this special edition is a success, the same Touareg with maybe the same or a slightly less powerful engine will be available on a regular basis.
    VW starts selling the special edition of the Touareg this autumn.

    Tough times for Porsche, first the upcoming Touareg V6 with 270 HP and now the Toureg with a 12-cyl. engine.
    I'm afraid I see a power increase on both, the Cayenne V6 and Cayenne Turbo by MY 2006. Good for new buyers, bad for us who already own one.

    BTW: if someone thinks that a Touareg W12 is no competition for the Cayenne Turbo, think again. The Touareg and the Cayenne share practically all parts (including steering, gearbox and suspension), only the engine is different.
    And I don't want to start argueing what is better: a normally aspirated W12 engine or a bi-turbo charged V8.

    It is a shame that Porsche didn't offer 500 HP from the start in the Cayenne Turbo. This is the only way how to keep the competition at a certain distance for a couple of years.
    I hate to say it but sometimes I'm really mad at Porsche because they don't seem to understand that not only tradition sells but power too. I'm afraid they'll learn it the hard way sooner or later.
    The new Boxster is probably the next mistake (if the power figures I got are correct) and the upcoming 997 Turbo might also be a failure if customers don't see a 5 at the beginning of the power figure. Top models need top power.

    Re: VW Touareg - Special Edition with 450 HP and W12 engine

    Quote:
    RC said:

    And I don't want to start argueing what is better: a normally aspirated W12 engine or a bi-turbo charged V8.

    It is a shame that Porsche didn't offer 500 HP from the start in the Cayenne Turbo. This is the only way how to keep the competition at a certain distance for a couple of years.
    I hate to say it but sometimes I'm really mad at Porsche because they don't seem to understand that not only tradition sells but power too. I'm afraid they'll learn it the hard way sooner or later.
    The new Boxster is probably the next mistake (if the power figures I got are correct) and the upcoming 997 Turbo might also be a failure if customers don't see a 5 at the beginning of the power figure. Top models need top power.




    Not stir things up but what do you think is the logic behind their (Porsche) thinking ?

    I fully understand that they can't get away from the tradition (I don't want them either) but HP wise they can offer something substantial.

    I have heard that the next Gen. Toyota Supra will be a monster. I know it doesn't have the handling and all that good stuff we get with Porsche but at the same time you don't want to feel somewhat scared we you see one in your Porsche in the rear view mirror .

    Even though I don't care much for BMW (no flames please) they seem to be more generous regarding their power upgrades than Porsche.

    I guess Porsche owners can be loyal to this brand for a while, but it won't last for ever. If you love someone and they don't love you back, after while you'll start to think may be you are not destined together .

    I liked my analogy above .

    Re: VW Touareg - Special Edition with 450 HP and W12 engine



    I love cars..but i love a specially sports car..

    Before Porsche love sports car too...now love to sell cars...and stop!

    the 997 looks great but now we need a GT3 with at least 410HP and a turbo with minimum 500HP..

    IF the power range is not like the one i said i think that my next sports car will be not a Porsche...

    Sad but true...

    I have a Cayenne S that costs me 85.000 Euro..and i have 340 HP..

    With 5.000 Euro more with the Touareg i can have 450 HP..why buy again a Cayenne S??
    only becouse it's a Porsche???

    Is not sufficient a great history to sell cars..

    ciao
    Dario

    Re: VW Touareg - Special Edition with 450 HP and W12 engine

    The theory behind selling cars with limited power is that one can sell loads of them, then only have to make minute power incremnets to sell newer versions, thus saving a lot of money. Look at Ferrari, the 575 only has 30hp more than the 550, the 360CS only has 2o hp more, and if rumours are correct, the new Monza will have 450-480hp, so it will have to make do with less weight. But the thing is, with cars like Porsche/Ferrari, they can afford to do little minute upgrades, because their badge and driving experience sells them. AMG Mercedes on the other hand have to make significant power upgardes, reputation although mostly good, recent electronic gremlins and dealer service count against their cars ownership experiences. Look at the DB9, only 450hp, 0-50 in 5,4 seconds, but its receiving very good press and orders. All expected really. There are those who say power isn't everything, and those that cant do without, so just the way it is.

    You can see why I'm in AMG's camp, driving aside.

    Re: VW Touareg - Special Edition with 450 HP and W12 engine

    I am sick and tired of this horse power war.

    It's natural that Porsche keeps raising the 911 power, but what's all about this that the Turbo must have 500 hp?!
    Honestly i think they should keep it to a max of 480 hp, and maybe a max 500 for the GT2.
    Is that much of a problem?! Is horse power all you want in a car?!

    I'll give you an example:
    I drive a '94 Audi 80 Avant 1.6 (hey i'm only 21 ) with 100 hp. My mom has a '98 Saab 93 2.0t (154 hp). You know what? I absolutely hate it! Its steering is numb, the balance is wrong, you can't corner well, oh and it's automatic.
    I would allways take my car instead of that load of comfy crapy car. Sure it's more confortable and all... But that's about it.

    Porsche is the "creme de la creme" in drivers involvement. It has the perfect steering, corners beautifully (when mastered), and it's fast. And guess what, it ain't that powerfull.
    Most of you own or are buying Porsches damn it... There's a lot more to it than power. If you want power go to one of those cheezy (i'll still like them though) Mercedes with +500 hp...

    Why don't you power addicts with money to spend just go and buy a CL65? 612 hp... not bad!! And it's faster that a Turbo (NOT) and handles better (NOT)!

    Of course Porsche doesn't want that so that's why they try to satisfy everyone. But please, oh please, don't just even try to compare Porsche to other makes just because of power figures...

    Porsche doesn't need (that much ) power, it has everything else.

    Re: VW Touareg - Special Edition with 450 HP and W12 engine

    Quote:
    RC said:
    VW just announced a special edition of the VW Touareg.
    Engine: W12 engine with 450 HP, price tag around 90000(!) Euro, substantially cheaper than the Cayenne Turbo.
    Two series are planned, 333 cars for the Middle East and 100 cars for Europe.
    A little birdy told me that if this special edition is a success, the same Touareg with maybe the same or a slightly less powerful engine will be available on a regular basis.
    VW starts selling the special edition of the Touareg this autumn.

    Tough times for Porsche, first the upcoming Touareg V6 with 270 HP and now the Toureg with a 12-cyl. engine.
    I'm afraid I see a power increase on both, the Cayenne V6 and Cayenne Turbo by MY 2006. Good for new buyers, bad for us who already own one.

    BTW: if someone thinks that a Touareg W12 is no competition for the Cayenne Turbo, think again. The Touareg and the Cayenne share practically all parts (including steering, gearbox and suspension), only the engine is different.
    And I don't want to start argueing what is better: a normally aspirated W12 engine or a bi-turbo charged V8.

    It is a shame that Porsche didn't offer 500 HP from the start in the Cayenne Turbo. This is the only way how to keep the competition at a certain distance for a couple of years.
    I hate to say it but sometimes I'm really mad at Porsche because they don't seem to understand that not only tradition sells but power too. I'm afraid they'll learn it the hard way sooner or later.
    The new Boxster is probably the next mistake (if the power figures I got are correct) and the upcoming 997 Turbo might also be a failure if customers don't see a 5 at the beginning of the power figure. Top models need top power.




    The Turbo S will have 500hp if you believe Car magazine.

    What is puzzling is despite Boxster sales being off 40% in the US the Porsche continues to pedal it like people are waiting in line top buy it.

    The Cayenne has been a success but ask yourself this question; how many people bought it because of the name, curiosity and being one of the first. The other day I was gassing up and another owner of the Cayenne S was doing the same. I learned from him that he doubted he would buy another because of value.

    SUV's are workhorses and meant to be abused. The thought of trashing a Porsche which has the high cost is not rational. When my 360 was in the shop I was given Suburban SUV and it was huge but easy to drive. That car is meant to be trashed and one would be comfortable in doing so.

    The Cayenne turbo is a different market for a very small consumer base. It will continue to be successful.

    Which leads me to comment on the 997. I am sure the inside's of the car are as good as any in the industry. However, more and more people are looking for value. The 997S probably should have been the base model and priced what they are pricing the base model. I still believe this is a stop gap model until the 998 is introduced which will be a substantial deviation from the 911 heritage. Porsche knows that the 911 has had its run.

    Re: VW Touareg - Special Edition with 450 HP and W12 engine

    When do you think whoever makes the insane decisions at VW will get fired (or move over to BMW where other insane decisions seem the norm)

    No one will buy 90$/Euro VW's or not enough to justify the investment.

    VW have lost their way due to greed.

    Case in point, my dealer (also VW) is about to part with the Phaeton demo, no one will test drive it, only the salemen and its taking up floor space. They do not think they will ever sell one. Reason: even the hard line VW'ers with money would not buy it let alone anyone with any sense.

    Go for it VW, you can always build and sell it as the politburo car for China.

    Re: VW Touareg - Special Edition with 450 HP and W12 engine

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    The Turbo S will have 500hp if you believe Car magazine.



    Right, they should really know. Like Porsche would inform Car magazine of its future model plans a couple of years ahead!


    Quote:
    nberry said:
    What is puzzling is despite Boxster sales being off 40% in the US the Porsche continues to pedal it like people are waiting in line top buy it.



    Pedal? Pedal?? Oh, you mean peddle!

    Rookie, you were right. He's typing his posts way too fast.


    Quote:
    nberry said:
    The Cayenne has been a success but ask yourself this question; how many people bought it because of the name, curiosity and being one of the first.



    We don't need to ask OURSELVES, Nick, when we can ask you.
    Why did you buy a Cayenne? My guess is, you wanted to be one of the first.

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    SUV's are workhorses and meant to be abused. The thought of trashing a Porsche which has the high cost is not rational. When my 360 was in the shop I was given Suburban SUV and it was huge but easy to drive.



    So what you are saying is, they saw you coming and gave you a car that is easy to drive!

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Which leads me to comment on the 997. I am sure the inside's of the car are as good as any in the industry. However, more and more people are looking for value.



    Including nberry, which is why you bought a 360?

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    I still believe this is a stop gap model until the 998 is introduced which will be a substantial deviation from the 911 heritage. Porsche knows that the 911 has had its run.



    Oh, no! Porsche is now even blabbing its future model plans to nberry!

    Re: VW Touareg - Special Edition with 450 HP and W12 engine

    Quote:
    Mick said:
    When do you think whoever makes the insane decisions at VW will get fired (or move over to BMW where other insane decisions seem the norm)



    Mick,
    Bernd Pischetsrieder, current CEO of VW, came from BMW.
    This might be the answer to your question, even though it's not the one you expected.
    Must admit though, I personally suspect he's got a lot more smarts and "feel" for cars than many of his contemporaries in the auto industry.

    Quote:
    Mick said:
    Reason: even the hard line VW'ers with money would not buy it let alone anyone with any sense.




    I'm having a hard time imagining people with money being hard-line VW'ers.

    Re: VW Touareg - Special Edition with 450 HP and W12 engine

    Quote:
    I'm having a hard time imagining people with money being hard-line VW'ers.



    fritz! Where's your imagination? There are probably far more VW (or Chevrolet or Ford) hardliners among the wealthy than there are Porsche people. Those who spend freely are only a small subset of the wealthy.

    Re: VW Touareg - Special Edition with 450 HP and W12 engine

    I don't whant power and stop..i whant all Porsche has,Power,Handling,Brake...all

    Mercedes ha only Power..

    Ferrari has only handling

    etc..

    a Porsche has all...but i need also a lot of Power..my 996 Turbo has 500CV and i was happy with it..420HP are not sufficient for my ideas..

    Porsche is selling a lot..not like some years ago..that when you buy a Porsche you have a great piece of car in your hands..in a couple of years if Porsche doesn't change some things you will have a car like and Audi,a BMW or a Mercedes..not a bad car..but no a "special" car..

    For this reason i'm not 100% sure to go with another Porsche..

    But i know that when i will see a Sport version(Turbo/GT3/etc.) of the 997 i go to my dealer to take one..

    Cioaoo

    Re: VW Touareg - Special Edition with 450 HP and W12 engine

    Quote:
    GM Austin said:
    Quote:
    I'm having a hard time imagining people with money being hard-line VW'ers.



    fritz! Where's your imagination? There are probably far more VW (or Chevrolet or Ford) hardliners among the wealthy than there are Porsche people. Those who spend freely are only a small subset of the wealthy.



    Hi GM,

    Now this is starting to get a little complicated.

    So that Phaeton sitting out there on the dealer's lot not only suffers from a lousy model name, but is also waiting for a buyer to come by who is wealthy, but not a free spender, but is also sufficiently self-contradictory to be prepared to put up the not-inconsiderable ante for said Phaeton.

    Hmmm. I think I can see why that dealer wanted to get the Phaeton demo car off his lot. How many buyers are there who would fit this bill? The dealer could wait a really long time for that car to pay for its keep.

    Thanks for enlightening me, GM. My lack of imagination had prevented me from getting my head around the concept of a mass manufacturer like VW wanting to produce a car aimed at such a limited market segment.

    Re: VW Touareg - Special Edition with 450 HP and W12 engine



    Well sure! Glad I could help!

    I think VW will have a tough time of it. The VW supporters are just not accustomed to parting with so much cash, wealthy or not. VW has to be hoping that a new type of buyer will appear at their door. One not so interested in value for the dollar.

    Re: VW Touareg - Special Edition with 450 HP and W12 engine

    the same thing happens to the phaeton, I think its really ugly, it will never beat the Audi A8

    Re: VW Touareg - Special Edition with 450 HP and W12 engine

    Quote:
    GM Austin said:
    VW has to be hoping that a new type of buyer will appear at their door. One not so interested in value for the dollar.



    If and when that buyer shows up, I think that VW will find a lot of other suppliers of all kinds of consumer goods competing for his/her dollar.

    Which just brings us back to the fact that the Phaeton, whilst it may be excellent in engineering terms, fulfills a demand which just isn't really there.
    I mean, how many people want to buy an up-market, hi-tech, hi-price, heavy luxury sedan called a "People's Car Light Four Wheeled Horse-Drawn Carriage".

    Don't big corporations draw up a business plan and do some market research before they commit themselves to investing a billion or three on this kind of project?

    Re: VW Touareg - Special Edition with 450 HP and W12 engine

    Quote:
    DEETZ said:
    the same thing happens to the phaeton, I think its really ugly, it will never beat the Audi A8



    DEETZ,

    Don't start me off on that tack!

    If only VW/Audi had had the good sense to market the Phaeton as an Audi A8, A10, A12 or whatever - and used Audi's aluminum spaceframe know-how to put it on a diet - it might have had the "street credibility" to allow it to establish itself on the market.

    How bad would MB, BMW, Lexus, and Jaguar cars have to be for people in that market segment to want to visit their local VW dealer and choose a Phaeton out of the line-up of Beetles, Golfs, Polos, Lupos, and buses?

    PS: I don't think that beating the Audi A8 could have been VW's objective when introducing the Phaeton. That would only have meant "cannibalising" its own sales, instead of making new conquests!

    Re: VW Touareg - Special Edition with 450 HP and W12 engine

    Quote:
    fritz said:
    Don't big corporations draw up a business plan and do some market research before they commit themselves to investing a billion or three on this kind of project?



    Do you recall Motorola's Iridium project?

    Re: VW Touareg - Special Edition with 450 HP and W12 engine

    Quote:
    GM Austin said:
    Quote:
    fritz said:
    Don't big corporations draw up a business plan and do some market research before they commit themselves to investing a billion or three on this kind of project?



    Do you recall Motorola's Iridium project?



    Vaguely, yes!

    I must confess, worldwide satellite-based mobile phone access did sound look a good idea to me too at the time.

    On the other hand, a high-class luxury sedan sold under the Volkswagen brand struck me as hare-brained from the very beginning.

    Re: VW Touareg - Special Edition with 450 HP and W12 engine

    @ nberry:

    The Cayenne's competition is Mercedes and BMW. Considering this aspect I think that Porsche not only provides the customer with a truely magnificent car, but also with the exclusive and sporty image the other marques may lack. Therefore I believe that it will remain to be succesful.

    -------

    RC:

    I don't believe that the upcoming Touareg W12 will be a serious threat to the Cayenne Turbo. Apart from the handling abilities, it lacks something which I believe at this segment is of utmost importance: brand image.
    No one will buy a Volkswagen, if he can purchase a Porsche for more or less the same price.

    RG TL

    Re: VW Touareg - Special Edition with 450 HP and W12 engine

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    What is puzzling is despite Boxster sales being off 40% in the US the Porsche continues to pedal it like people are waiting in line top buy it.

    The Cayenne has been a success but ask yourself this question; how many people bought it because of the name, curiosity and being one of the first.

    The 997S probably should have been the base model and priced what they are pricing the base model. I still believe this is a stop gap model until the 998 is introduced which will be a substantial deviation from the 911 heritage. Porsche knows that the 911 has had its run.




    Re: VW Touareg - Special Edition with 450 HP and W12 engine

    Quote:
    nberry said:
    Which leads me to comment on the 997. I am sure the inside's of the car are as good as any in the industry. However, more and more people are looking for value. The 997S probably should have been the base model and priced what they are pricing the base model. I still believe this is a stop gap model until the 998 is introduced which will be a substantial deviation from the 911 heritage. Porsche knows that the 911 has had its run.



    You still don't understand the 911, Nick.
    The new 997 Carrera is an entry model, the 997 S a slightly sportier model to satisfy people who want more for not so much more money.
    Both models are still a lot cheaper than a Ferrari F360 and at the same price level of some of their competitors but with a better overall performance.
    You want to talk top performance: the new 997 Turbo is coming. And there will be a few new models between the 997 Turbo and 997 Carrera too.
    I really don't know who started this whole 998 BS but people have to understand that the 997 is not some kind of an interim 911 but the real thing until the next generation shows up in 6, 7 or 8 years. Of course there will be a facelift in two or three years and the new 997 Turbo might already have the facelifted design but don't expect too much difference.

    Regarding the 998: nobody said that the 997 successor has to be the 998 and nobody said that the 998 has to be a 911.

    Nick, Porsche does things the "simple" way, you just have to look and understand their strategy. I don't always agree with them but it seems to work. The dropping Boxster sales are no surprise, the Boxster is in it's 8th year of production, what do you expect?

    Re: VW Touareg - Special Edition with 450 HP and W12 engine

    Quote:
    Tim said:
    RC:

    I don't believe that the upcoming Touareg W12 will be a serious threat to the Cayenne Turbo. Apart from the handling abilities, it lacks something which I believe at this segment is of utmost importance: brand image.
    No one will buy a Volkswagen, if he can purchase a Porsche for more or less the same price.




    I don't think that VW has the same image in Europe as in the USA. The VW Golf is one of the best selling cars in Europe and not only because of the price tag. VW has a much better reputation in Europe than most japanese manufacturers, Opel (GM), Fiat or Citroen/Renault.
    So I don't see an image problem in Europe, especially since the Phaeton has entered the luxury car market (with a ridiculous success, I agree) and VW tried hard to improve quality on their products.
    And most people know very well that Audi and VW share the same parts and platforms on almost all their cars, not to speak about Skoda and Seat.
    The Touareg is selling very well and for the price of a Touareg V10 Diesel, buyers could easily get a Cayenne S with even more power. I really think that a Touareg W12 might create problems to Cayenne Turbo sales, not because of the price tag but of the more interesting engine. And it is no secret that VW could tweak the Touareg easily to Porsche standards regarding handling, performance and sportiness.
    And the most important thing shouldn't be forgotten: the german market and some other european markets demand "understatement" models. What would be more "understatement" than a Touareg with a W12 450 HP engine? For more than 10000 Euro less, practically the same performance, same quality (most parts in the Cayenne have the VW logo on them ) and a more attractive but at the same time less provocative design, I would have gone for the Touareg W12 immediately if it was available a few months ago. And I'm not kidding.
    The Cayenne Turbo is a fine SUV but if VW can do the same for less money and at the same time includes a more interesting engine (normally aspriated W12), I'm in.

    Like it or not: besides the engine, there is not much difference between the Touareg and the Cayenne.
    And if you think that the Cayenne gets a special blessing at the factory in Leipzig or some sort of witch magic, I have to disappoint you. The only difference is the setup of both brand models and VW could easily match the Porsche setup, especially since they took part of development.

    What actually annoys me is just the fact that Porsche doesn't offer excessive power on their top of the line models.
    The Cayenne Turbo, the 997 Turbo and the top Boxster model should have more power than all their competitors. This is how you gain respect. But if limousines like the E55 or the brandnew BMW M5 start to be faster than Porsche's top of the line, this is very disappointing. Power isn't everything but it is part of Porsche's performance heritage. The 993 Turbo set a standard when it showed up around a decade ago.

    Re: VW Touareg - Special Edition with 450 HP and W12 engine

    I see your point about the Touareg W12, but, as you say, the perception of VW is different in the US than it is in Europe. VW had a good reputation, strangely enough, back when they only had the Beetle available. That car had a good reputation for build quality, even though it was inexpensive and had no power. The introduction of the Golf (Rabbit in the US) changed that. Even though it was a far superior design to the Bug, the Golf had serious reliability and assembly issues the Beetle never had. Part of this was the Pennsylvania assembly plant that never matched the German build quality. Even though that has been many years ago, I believe the memory, and thus the perception of quality, is still there. It was actually a betrayal of sorts. VW had been a source of reliable, inexpensive transportation for so many years and then the Golf came along and destroyed all that built-up goodwill.

    Re: VW Touareg - Special Edition with 450 HP and W12 engine

    Quote:
    What would be more "understatement" than a Touareg with a W12 450 HP engine? For more than 10000 Euro less, practically the same performance, same quality (most parts in the Cayenne have the VW logo on them ) and a more attractive but at the same time less provocative design, I would have gone for the Touareg W12 immediately if it was available a few months ago. And I'm not kidding.



    Would you be willing to sacrifice performance i.e. handling abilities for understatement? Considering the posts you have made regarding your driving habits I doubt that.
    I know that the Cayenne and the Touareg are basically the same car and if I had to choose between a Cayenne S and the V10 TDI I would probably go for the Touareg because of the engine.

    Regarding the W12:
    First of all I highly doubt that they will give the W12 a sportier setup and secondly it still, even in Germany, lacks brand image. If understatement is of such great concern to the german customer why is the Phaeton such a financial disaster? It's an outstanding product, in my opinion superior to BMW and Mercedes especially regarding the interior which reminds me of a little Bentley and it offers understatement. But still it's sitting on dealer's lots. Why?

    Therefore considering the aspects I've mentioned I highly doubt that it will steal to many customers from the CT.

    RG TL

    Re: VW Touareg - Special Edition with 450 HP and W12 engine


    No sweat, I don't think the Touareg W12 will create a threat to the Cayenne TT.

    a) It's a limited edition and hence not too many will be on the market.
    b) Over 85% of Touareg sales in Europe are diesel sales ..... this proves there is "little" interest in Europe for petrol versions so I doubt clients will rush to buy one ....
    c) If for the same price and basically the same type of performance you've got a choice between a VW and a Porsche ... I'm sure most of the people will go for the Porsche. Buyers are may be irrational but they value the brand image. This is why the Phaeton is an absolute fiasco.

    Re: VW Touareg - Special Edition with 450 HP and W12 engine

    I really hope they release a power increase kit from porsche, i know i will be rushing to get one.

    Re: VW Touareg - Special Edition with 450 HP and W12 engine

    guys, I am not trying to insult VW guys but I went to school today, my teacher loves cars, a woman professor

    she talked about VW being very popular in China and she mentioned the Phaeton and she said, there is noway people are getting a VW for 80grand, "you know what I mean"

    ^^ peace

    Re: VW Touareg - Special Edition with 450 HP and W12 engine

    RC can you confirm a lot of government plates on Phaetons, a friend from Berlin reports only seeing Phaetons with Gov plates.

    Re: VW Touareg - Special Edition with 450 HP and W12 engine

    Quote:
    Mick said:
    RC can you confirm a lot of government plates on Phaetons, a friend from Berlin reports only seeing Phaetons with Gov plates.



    The Phaeton is a complete failure and I really wonder why VW had to build it. Maybe the result of the "Grandomania" of some people at VW or just a "simple" misjudgement of future customer demand.
    Yes, our "beloved" chancellor Gerhard Schröder drives one, a personal gift from VW. He drove the Audi A8 before.
    And yes, there are a lot of Phaeton government cars but even more VW(!) company cars for their employees.
    Our government people usually drive Audi or BMW or Mercedes, depending on the region they're from. The bavarian first secretary of state (I don't know the right translation in English, the "president" of Bavaria) drives a BMW 7series, our President drives a Mercedes S-class and so on.
    Police (the uniformed ones) drives Audi, BMW, Opel, Ford, Skoda, VW, Mercedes and even Porsche (only a few cars left for special assignments like parades, etc.).

    Re: VW Touareg - Special Edition with 450 HP and W12 engine

    Quote:
    EricAlain said:

    No sweat, I don't think the Touareg W12 will create a threat to the Cayenne TT.

    a) It's a limited edition and hence not too many will be on the market.
    b) Over 85% of Touareg sales in Europe are diesel sales ..... this proves there is "little" interest in Europe for petrol versions so I doubt clients will rush to buy one ....
    c) If for the same price and basically the same type of performance you've got a choice between a VW and a Porsche ... I'm sure most of the people will go for the Porsche. Buyers are may be irrational but they value the brand image. This is why the Phaeton is an absolute fiasco.



    a. only limited at the beginning, if it is a success, VW wants to build it in larger numbers.
    b. the V10 Diesel is a bestseller and it isn't cheap. A lot of customers decided to go for the V10 Diesel instead of the V8 because of the superior real life performance of the V10 Diesel.
    c. The Touareg W12 costs around 12000 Euro less than the Cayenne Turbo. And the "understatement" factor in today's "envy" Germany shouldn't be underestimated.
    We are the country where people remove the badges from their cars or put a S 280 badge on their S 600 Mercedes.
    Same applies to other european countries too, envy is eating people over here, especially since the media does a great job to make people believe that rich people are nothing better than criminals.

     
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    Porsche Sticky The new Macan: the first all-electric SUV from Porsche 1/30/24 9:18 AM
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