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Re: Is PDK/DSG really worth it!
Quote:
Nugget said:Quote:
frayed said:
MMD, you are the perfect buyer for DSG. Really.
Sadly, MMD will be devastated to learn that DSG comes with mandatory eight-color rear taillights and cluttery speed holes in order to set DSG-equipped cars apart cosmetically from manual cars.
LOL. I hear the PDK paddles on the steering column will be rhinestone-studded to make all bystanders extremely jealous.
The current buzz indicates the fabulous fake stones will spell out "Porsche."
After considerable thought I figured out the only and best solution: get the *high-quality* duct tape (comes in three colors!) and tape over the paddles.
Re: Is PDK/DSG really worth it!
I am so glad i am no longer driving my smg-eqipped m3 or m5; they were great cars diminished by the disconnected feeling of the smg; yes manual on my 997s is slower but at least i am involved and not some computer. No more smg/dsg/pdk or whatever for me. Make it manual please or else a slushbox in a sedan i don't want to get involved with but not in a sports car.
Re: Is PDK/DSG really worth it!
Quote:
catdog said:
I am so glad i am no longer driving my smg-eqipped m3 or m5; they were great cars diminished by the disconnected feeling of the smg; yes manual on my 997s is slower but at least i am involved and not some computer. No more smg/dsg/pdk or whatever for me. Make it manual please or else a slushbox in a sedan i don't want to get involved with but not in a sports car.
Couldn't agree more. I would not stand for a manual in my X5. . . but couldn't tolerate floppy paddles or a slusher in my GT3.
It's sad the Stradale has paddles; I would have bought one had it had a gated shifter.
Re: Is PDK/DSG really worth it!
Quote:
SciFrog said:
I don't get it. Real PDK/SMG is awsome. In spirited driving, its not like you play much with the clutch anyway, it is full in or full out, just like the PDK...
I agree, and I've always driven a stick. But we have to understand that there are 2 types of people - one type prefers a stick/clutch and the other prefers auto/manual (PDK preferred). Neither type is right or wrong.
Re: Is PDK/DSG really worth it!
A few weeks ago i drove the new golf with SMGII and even tried out an e46 m3 equipped with SMGII. I'm a sucker for manuals and though that I would possibly not be able to have fun with a transmission not involving.
Oh boy was I wrong. I had tons of fun in the Golf. The DSG allowed me to focus more on the driving and enjoying the perfectly composed car I was driving. In automatic mode is did as well as an automatic, just as smooth in every sense. In manual mode it was surprisingly smooth, I could barely feel the gear changes and it shifted very quick too. In combination with the engine and the whole car itself, DSG was an awesome experience.
As for the SMG, it was no were as smooth as DSG and for everyday usage there really is no competition. DSG is better in every way. On the other hand SMG felt faster, I don't know if it was becasue of the rough changes but the delay from shifting, to the gear kicking in felt shorter compared with DSG. In a sports car I would prefer a combination of the two, which is something BMW i currently working on.
So am I still a manual fanatic? Yes I am!! But would I opt for DSG if it's an option for my future car? I'm afraid yes. You really don't know how great it is until you have tried it.
Oh boy was I wrong. I had tons of fun in the Golf. The DSG allowed me to focus more on the driving and enjoying the perfectly composed car I was driving. In automatic mode is did as well as an automatic, just as smooth in every sense. In manual mode it was surprisingly smooth, I could barely feel the gear changes and it shifted very quick too. In combination with the engine and the whole car itself, DSG was an awesome experience.
As for the SMG, it was no were as smooth as DSG and for everyday usage there really is no competition. DSG is better in every way. On the other hand SMG felt faster, I don't know if it was becasue of the rough changes but the delay from shifting, to the gear kicking in felt shorter compared with DSG. In a sports car I would prefer a combination of the two, which is something BMW i currently working on.
So am I still a manual fanatic? Yes I am!! But would I opt for DSG if it's an option for my future car? I'm afraid yes. You really don't know how great it is until you have tried it.
Each to his own
I've driven an Audi TT with DSG and a Golf GTi with DSG and both were awful. In both cars it didn't seem to know whether it was coming or going. It was clearly a very confused gearbox and not very quick either.
Mind you it's better than SMG or the F1/Cambiacorsa boxes which just seem brutal.
I guess I'm old fashioned but I can't see there being any pleasure in driving cars with these gearboxes. I also still prefer to tie my own shoe laces, ties and bow ties so maybe manual dexterity and hand eye coordination are still more important to me than convenience.
Mind you it's better than SMG or the F1/Cambiacorsa boxes which just seem brutal.
I guess I'm old fashioned but I can't see there being any pleasure in driving cars with these gearboxes. I also still prefer to tie my own shoe laces, ties and bow ties so maybe manual dexterity and hand eye coordination are still more important to me than convenience.
Re: Is PDK/DSG really worth it!
Quote:
luwalira said:
As for the SMG, it was no were as smooth as DSG and for everyday usage there really is no competition. DSG is better in every way.
I would avoid saying SMG is "klunky" or jerky or otherwise not-smooth. Too many people say this as a result of trying it for the first time and then commenting.
It DOES require living with it for a while to realize that very slight throttle inputs while anticipating what it's going to do at the correct time will eliminate jerkiness.
Luwalira's is most likely correct though. I have zero experience with PDK but I'm sure it will be muuuuuuch smoother when you drive off the lot for the first time and forever after. IOW, if you get tired, or make a mistake, SMG gets jerky again.
Re: Each to his own
Quote:
Le Chef said:
I guess I'm old fashioned but I can't see there being any pleasure in driving cars with these gearboxes.
Nah..., they're a blast! I got SMG for my M3 thinking about commuting and airport runs (still a "purist" an automatic was out-of-the-question for me). Anyway, after a few weeks I became a paddle shifter convert, there's just "more room" in your brain for driving when you only have to flick your fingers to get "perfect" results.
I think there's two kinds of results with paddle shifters.
One where a guy orders it specifically and loves it.
Another where a guy gets stuck with it on an car and then is amazed that he starts to love it.
In both cases the lack of a manual tranny is forgotten; thus the only exception may be for guys who have never had a chance to live with it.
Re: Each to his own
Quote:
MMD said:I think there's two kinds of results with paddle shifters.
One where a guy orders it specifically and loves it.
Another where a guy gets stuck with it on an car and then is amazed that he starts to love it.
In both cases the lack of a manual tranny is forgotten; thus the only exception may be for guys who have never had a chance to live with it.
There is indeed a significant third group (check the BMW Forums):
3. A person opts for SMG and quickly tires of it and wishes he'd ordered a manual, vowing never again to choose a manu-matic...
Re: Each to his own
OK here is how it went with me: i loved it at first, loved it even more for the next 6-12 months, started evangelizing about it even, then started realizing that something was missing, yes it was super fast and nice on a favorite mountain road going fast and so on then i got back in a manual and realized one dimension of throtthle control was missing and i simply don't want to give that up anymore. I think if you have a nice clutch and good controls like in the 997 it would be a shame to rob the driver of that component. It the clutch has a delay valve and provides poor feedback and the gearbox is clucnky then perhaps such a car is better off with a DSG/SMG/ZSG/WhatchamakalitSG...
Re: Is PDK/DSG really worth it!
Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
Why do you want to pay more to add more weight and also make it more unreliable?
None of them work quickly backing up on a level and you can forget backing up a steep driveway or parallel parking on a hill. I don't see race cars needing to do that too often.
And how durable are they in a high torque performance engine? Gonna get 50,000 - 80,000 no problem miles with
one hooked onto a 400hp engine? Good luck! Nobody has done that yet. Porsche knows their customers will go beserk if it fails early. Ferrari and Maserati owners just bend over and squeal.
Should Porsche offer it? As a stockholder I say Yes.
Optimum for the track? Yes. For daily use? Forget it.
Making it "reliable" when hooked up to a high performance engine is probably why Porsche hasn't offered it as an option thus far. They have tested versions at Le Mans, but there were problems last year.
Jim
Re: Each to his own
This business of smooth vs brutal impressions is interesting - I recall a senior BMW boffin arguing that they wanted SMG to be a bit hard (at least in M cars) to provide that sporting experience of meshing gears... likewise DSG drivers love, or hate, the greater smoothness... it seems nobody can agree on the best personality for a sequential gearbox.
Perhaps that's why (some) are returning to manuals, because the program that determines the flavour of your shifting is infinitely flexible in your brain.
Perhaps that's why (some) are returning to manuals, because the program that determines the flavour of your shifting is infinitely flexible in your brain.
Re: Each to his own
Why all this discussion might be, in at least in one sense, moot:
I "decided" not to order PDK on eventual trade in. Would have to wait at least a year for it to appear on order forms, then a year after that to assimilate the reviews. Might be like PCCB when they first came out: they were not so great in their first years.
So for we who are thinking about buying another 997 and want to wait "cautiously" for PDK..., the wait will be at least two to three years.
I "decided" not to order PDK on eventual trade in. Would have to wait at least a year for it to appear on order forms, then a year after that to assimilate the reviews. Might be like PCCB when they first came out: they were not so great in their first years.
So for we who are thinking about buying another 997 and want to wait "cautiously" for PDK..., the wait will be at least two to three years.
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