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Re: Ringtimes of Superleggera and Z06
Quote:
Rossi said:
Dear rennteamers, here are the Sportauto-results:
Corvette Z06: 7.49 min
Lamborghini Gallardo Superleggera: 7.46 min
Stefan,
What did I told you and Markus about SL?
Current MY08 Gallardo(not SL!) with Ceramics, Corsa'a and Sport setup is capable to achive 7.50-7.49min on the Ring without any problem...
Re: Ringtimes of Superleggera and Z06
Here we go again!!
There just isn't much between any of the following cars, as Sport Auto test results show:
1. 7.46 Gallardo SL
2. 7.48 997GT3
3. 7.48 997GT3 RS (shouldn't it be faster??)
4. 7.49 Z06
5. 7.52 Ford GT
6. 7.52 MB SLR
7. 7.52 Gallardo (original model)
8. 7.54 997 Turbo
9. 7.55 F430 F1
As you can see, 9 seconds separates all of these car, driven on different days, with different tires etc. Just very little difference on a 20+km track. It also demonstrates how difficult it is to lap under 8 minutes.
There just isn't much between any of the following cars, as Sport Auto test results show:
1. 7.46 Gallardo SL
2. 7.48 997GT3
3. 7.48 997GT3 RS (shouldn't it be faster??)
4. 7.49 Z06
5. 7.52 Ford GT
6. 7.52 MB SLR
7. 7.52 Gallardo (original model)
8. 7.54 997 Turbo
9. 7.55 F430 F1
As you can see, 9 seconds separates all of these car, driven on different days, with different tires etc. Just very little difference on a 20+km track. It also demonstrates how difficult it is to lap under 8 minutes.
Re: Ringtimes of Superleggera and Z06
Quote:
trip said:
Well I would say it is the F430 that is getting spanked considering its the slowest car of the bunch. Besides that fact there are two Porsches in the top 3 lap times and the Turbo has achieved a 7:42 time in the past.
I wouldn't call a 7.55 "spanked". In fact the F430 is on par with the new 997tt, which is its true rival.
When Ferrari presents the new Light Pista by autumn this year, the 7.46 of the Superleggera should be the benchmark.
Re: Ringtimes of Superleggera and Z06
Quote:
mp said:
Here we go again!!
There just isn't much between any of the following cars, as Sport Auto test results show:
1. 7.46 Gallardo SL
2. 7.48 997GT3
3. 7.48 997GT3 RS (shouldn't it be faster??)
4. 7.49 Z06
5. 7.52 Ford GT
6. 7.52 MB SLR
7. 7.52 Gallardo (original model)
8. 7.54 997 Turbo
9. 7.55 F430 F1
As you can see, 9 seconds separates all of these car, driven on different days, with different tires etc. Just very little difference on a 20+km track. It also demonstrates how difficult it is to lap under 8 minutes.
New GT2 will KILL them all!
Maybe even faster than the LP?
Re: Ringtimes of Superleggera and Z06
I wonder how important NBR track times will become with new safety standards and an ever changing economy.
Clearly the lap improvement between Porsche's generations (993 to 996 to 997) have slowed down (perhaps due to the law of diminishing returns)...How can car manufacturers keep going after impressive NBR lap times when those times warrant weight reduction, stiff/uncomfortable suspensions and edgy handling: all characteristics that don't necessarily translate into profits (.|. 997 turbo).
Clearly the lap improvement between Porsche's generations (993 to 996 to 997) have slowed down (perhaps due to the law of diminishing returns)...How can car manufacturers keep going after impressive NBR lap times when those times warrant weight reduction, stiff/uncomfortable suspensions and edgy handling: all characteristics that don't necessarily translate into profits (.|. 997 turbo).
Re: Ringtimes of Superleggera and Z06
Quote:
Hurst said:
I wonder how important NBR track times will become with new safety standards and an ever changing economy.
Clearly the lap improvement between Porsche's generations (993 to 996 to 997) have slowed down (perhaps due to the law of diminishing returns)...How can car manufacturers keep going after impressive NBR lap times when those times warrant weight reduction, stiff/uncomfortable suspensions and edgy handling: all characteristics that don't necessarily translate into profits (.|. 997 turbo).
I have been wondering about this as well. By many accounts, the Ring is not a very safe place to drive. I believe over 78 racing drivers have died on the Ring. One reason why Formula One does not race on the 14 mile track.
Re: Ringtimes of Superleggera and Z06
Quote:
Hurst said:
I wonder how important NBR track times will become with new safety standards and an ever changing economy.
Clearly the lap improvement between Porsche's generations (993 to 996 to 997) have slowed down (perhaps due to the law of diminishing returns)...How can car manufacturers keep going after impressive NBR lap times when those times warrant weight reduction, stiff/uncomfortable suspensions and edgy handling: all characteristics that don't necessarily translate into profits (.|. 997 turbo).
NBR times are an interesting proxy for what a car may achieve on a sometimes bumpy mtn road w/a pro driver....
But would observe that some cars w/better NBR times may actually have less engaging steering/brake pedal feel, exhaust note or paddleshifters than others.....
And on a real-world mtn twisties road, one faces risk of an errant oncoming car/SUV.....times when a 4600lb CL63 is much preferred to a 4000lb 599....
Bottom line, need to apply own discount rates to NBR data for amateur drivers (esp w/harder-edged cars w/o PSM/ESP), bumpier/sometimes wet real-world roads....and safety risks in a world of inept fellow drivers (one's NBR times may markedly slow if left wheelchair-bound/incapacitated/cremated post-collision)
Re: Ringtimes of Superleggera and Z06
Are you sure?
Early reports from the Nordschleife says that W.Rohrl achived something like low 7.40min in 997GT2... How I know that? Well, some competitors measured his lap... Also, at least two sectors were NOT faster then the one he made with 997 GT3RS...And Doettinger Hoehe top speed was only few km's faster then on 997 Turbo...
So, go figure... My guess for 997GT2 in von Saurma hands 7.46-7.44min tops!
Early reports from the Nordschleife says that W.Rohrl achived something like low 7.40min in 997GT2... How I know that? Well, some competitors measured his lap... Also, at least two sectors were NOT faster then the one he made with 997 GT3RS...And Doettinger Hoehe top speed was only few km's faster then on 997 Turbo...
So, go figure... My guess for 997GT2 in von Saurma hands 7.46-7.44min tops!
Re: Ringtimes of Superleggera and Z06
So I am curious, do people discount the Walter Rohl times because they don't believe him (or Prorsche) or is it possible that he is better at driving Porsches than V Saurma? I would love to see W Rohl times in some Porsche competitors such as the Gallardo and F430.
Re: Ringtimes of Superleggera and Z06
Quote:
trip said:
So I am curious, do people discount the Walter Rohl times because they don't believe him (or Prorsche) or is it possible that he is better at driving Porsches than V Saurma? I would love to see W Rohl times in some Porsche competitors such as the Gallardo and F430.
Because he is a FACTORY driver. Same as Tom Kristenssen(Le Mans winner!) for Audi and he achived 7.55min for R8...
Point is the W.Rohrl(or Tom Kristenssen for Audi) did more then 100 laps on the Ring during final car tuning process. So, he knows the car to his bones!
What W.Rohrl could do in Gallardo? How about-slower then von Saurma! Why? He do not know Gallardo at all, he drives and lives Porsche for last two decades... See my point?
Horst von Saurma is a very, very good driver and his times are legit as possible for me. Maybe not for you...
Re: Ringtimes of Superleggera and Z06
Quote:
nberry said:Quote:
Hurst said:
I wonder how important NBR track times will become with new safety standards and an ever changing economy.
Clearly the lap improvement between Porsche's generations (993 to 996 to 997) have slowed down (perhaps due to the law of diminishing returns)...How can car manufacturers keep going after impressive NBR lap times when those times warrant weight reduction, stiff/uncomfortable suspensions and edgy handling: all characteristics that don't necessarily translate into profits (.|. 997 turbo).
I have been wondering about this as well. By many accounts, the Ring is not a very safe place to drive. I believe over 78 racing drivers have died on the Ring. One reason why Formula One does not race on the 14 mile track.
Then don't drive there. it is a challenging track but as with everything you only need to use common sense and you will be fine.
Also name me another 14 mile race track that F1 would even consider using. People dont want to wait 5-6min for the cars to due a lap.
May 10, 2007 9:45:52 AM
- Porsche-Jeck
- Rennteam Master
-
- Loc: Rheinland , Germany
- Posts: 4856, Gallery
- Registered on: Jun 27, 2005
- Reply to: mp
Re: Ringtimes of Superleggera and Z06
Quote:
mp said:
Here we go again!!
There just isn't much between any of the following cars, as Sport Auto test results show:
1. 7.46 Gallardo SL
2. 7.48 997GT3
3. 7.48 997GT3 RS (shouldn't it be faster??)
4. 7.49 Z06
5. 7.52 Ford GT
6. 7.52 MB SLR
7. 7.52 Gallardo (original model)
8. 7.54 997 Turbo
9. 7.55 F430 F1
As you can see, 9 seconds separates all of these car, driven on different days, with different tires etc. Just very little difference on a 20+km track. It also demonstrates how difficult it is to lap under 8 minutes.
Completely agree
IMO it's just ridiculous to claim, that one car got "spanked" by another car by achieving a 2 sec gain 
Please bear in mind that NoS is not a track - even if you could reproduce the same test conditions (one driver in exactly the same mood/fitness on all test days
, same weather conditions) there is still the fact that NoS is a "living road". What do I mean by "living road": when was the latest race (á la VLN) leaving lot of rubber on the street, when was the latest heavy rain washing away the dust from the street etc +/- 5 sec on NoS means nothing.
As for real world performance Stefan Winkelmann, Lamborghini's CEO seems to have a quite realistic view - in one of the recent Sport Auto issues he said: we all know what it means to achieve a NoS laptime < 9 minutes (yes, he said 9 min, not 8 min - may have been a typo though
)
Re: Ringtimes of Superleggera and Z06
Quote:
KresoF1 said:
Are you sure?
Early reports from the Nordschleife says that W.Rohrl achived something like low 7.40min in 997GT2... How I know that? Well, some competitors measured his lap... Also, at least two sectors were NOT faster then the one he made with 997 GT3RS...And Doettinger Hoehe top speed was only few km's faster then on 997 Turbo...
So, go figure... My guess for 997GT2 in von Saurma hands 7.46-7.44min tops!
Yes could be but 996 gt2 mk1 did already 7.46.I expect 7.42-7.43
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