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Re: Carbon Interior 997 vs 996
Its a different texture. I worked myself with Carbon. There are different textiles with various knittings available. Like the patterns on knit-wear.
The reason has all something to do with stability. The usage in the Porsches interieur is purly optical. They take the original parts, glue the Fiber on top and coat it. For sure, some knittings are easier to bend then others, so on round curvy party they are easier to glue on the original parts than the others.
If we are looking to pure Carbon Fiber Parts (like you see in the GT or the Seats on the above picture) there you take a negative for and layer the Carbon Fibre inside. Based on the direction you put the textile you can influence the stability. Normally you have at least 2 layers which are running cross to each other (from the direction). High stability parts can easily come up to 6 or more layers. Sometimes with combination of other materials like honey-comb structures again for stability.
One to mention technique is been used in the McLaren SLR. Here the carbon fibre is knitted directly in the form of the car. Some front parts are - like a sock - knitted from ground off. This is - IMO - the future of car building.
let me know if you have any questions, as said, I started to work with this material 5 years ago. Its an interesting area (purly hobby... but thought many times to make a job out of that).
L@rs
The reason has all something to do with stability. The usage in the Porsches interieur is purly optical. They take the original parts, glue the Fiber on top and coat it. For sure, some knittings are easier to bend then others, so on round curvy party they are easier to glue on the original parts than the others.
If we are looking to pure Carbon Fiber Parts (like you see in the GT or the Seats on the above picture) there you take a negative for and layer the Carbon Fibre inside. Based on the direction you put the textile you can influence the stability. Normally you have at least 2 layers which are running cross to each other (from the direction). High stability parts can easily come up to 6 or more layers. Sometimes with combination of other materials like honey-comb structures again for stability.
One to mention technique is been used in the McLaren SLR. Here the carbon fibre is knitted directly in the form of the car. Some front parts are - like a sock - knitted from ground off. This is - IMO - the future of car building.
let me know if you have any questions, as said, I started to work with this material 5 years ago. Its an interesting area (purly hobby... but thought many times to make a job out of that).
L@rs
Re: Carbon Interior 997 vs 996
Thank you very much! You are truly an expert!
Some questions here...
How can you tell the parts are pure or optical Carbon Fiber?
For the prices Porsche charge for the carbon interior, do you think the prices are fair? Cheaper than Ferrari, but I am not sure they are the same?
Carbon trims are machine made or hand made?
I am plainning to add all Carbon trims and Carbon seats in my GT3, do you think it is strange because of the different carbon texture?
I have seen the 996 carbon look very nice, but I haven't seen the 997 carbon. Any comments?
Some questions here...
How can you tell the parts are pure or optical Carbon Fiber?
For the prices Porsche charge for the carbon interior, do you think the prices are fair? Cheaper than Ferrari, but I am not sure they are the same?
Carbon trims are machine made or hand made?
I am plainning to add all Carbon trims and Carbon seats in my GT3, do you think it is strange because of the different carbon texture?
I have seen the 996 carbon look very nice, but I haven't seen the 997 carbon. Any comments?
Re: Carbon Interior 997 vs 996
Your Welcome!
All Carbon parts are mainly hand-made. For sure, they are using tools but more or less its handmade.
From the outside you cant easily see if it is a pure Carbon or a coated part. The easiest you watch the whole part how it is mounted (sometimes the mounting material is different, which indicates a coat), or try to see the other side (opening the ashtree on the 997 and look on the back side - no carbon.... than its coated). The F430 has a very similar texture to the 997. BTW - the F430 has, as far as I know, pure Carbon parts.
Basicly you can mix the different textures without that it looks silly. The material and the color is the same, so why not mixing it up. Further on, on full Carbon cars (like GT, SLR) they mixing it too as different parts needs to have different stability and structures. So no doubt about that.
I love the material and encourage you to go for it. Make sure to send me some pictures after getting the car
cheers, L@rs
All Carbon parts are mainly hand-made. For sure, they are using tools but more or less its handmade.
From the outside you cant easily see if it is a pure Carbon or a coated part. The easiest you watch the whole part how it is mounted (sometimes the mounting material is different, which indicates a coat), or try to see the other side (opening the ashtree on the 997 and look on the back side - no carbon.... than its coated). The F430 has a very similar texture to the 997. BTW - the F430 has, as far as I know, pure Carbon parts.
Basicly you can mix the different textures without that it looks silly. The material and the color is the same, so why not mixing it up. Further on, on full Carbon cars (like GT, SLR) they mixing it too as different parts needs to have different stability and structures. So no doubt about that.
I love the material and encourage you to go for it. Make sure to send me some pictures after getting the car
cheers, L@rs
Re: Carbon Interior 997 vs 996
Quote:
Lars997 said:
The F430 has a very similar texture to the 997. BTW - the F430 has, as far as I know, pure Carbon parts.
Hi Lars997,
Today I went to a Ferrari dealer and just find out the Carbon trims in Ferrari are NOT pure carbon fibres. Same as Porsche, just like leather for the look ONLY.
Anyway, that make sense to me, because you can't save any weight even the interior trims are pure carbon.
And I perfer to have different textures on the Carbon trims.
Looks great!
Re: Carbon Interior 997 vs 996
Yes. The 997 uses the different ??knitting-structure?? Its not that easy to layer this over the round bands. The 997 structure is knitted in both directions, the 996 uses the different structure - sorry cant explain it in English.
I think best it is when showing it:
1st. 996 Textile:
I think best it is when showing it:
1st. 996 Textile:
Re: Carbon Interior 997 vs 996
As you can imagine, the 996 one is much easier to bend on round corners without moving the different fabrics/beards. Also, the fine 997 one, has 5x5 beards knitting, the other one is 3x5. So for sure the one sided 3x make it more flexible.
Hey if you have any more questions feel free to ask. One thing, after tomorrow, I will be not online for the next 2 weeks.
Hey if you have any more questions feel free to ask. One thing, after tomorrow, I will be not online for the next 2 weeks.
Re: Carbon Interior 997 vs 996
Lars, I think the words you were looking for is weaving. A different type of weaving results in a different type of fabric. In my line of work (Aircraft industy) we use different fabric types for ease of lay-up (like you said, different fabric behave differently when folded around curves and edges) and for structural strenght, the most radical one being so-called tape; all the threads lying in one direction, kept together by the resin. The fabric resulting in the most isotropic laminate is fabric with the same amount of fibres in the 0-direction as the 90 direction. This though is strength -wise not a very good choice, because all the advantages of CFRP occur when you tailor the properties. This means that it only results in weight loss when you make sure that it only has strength in the directions you want it to. However, this is a part of Carbon Fibre technology which goes way beyond the aesthetic use we're talking about here.
-Joost-
-Joost-
Re: Carbon Interior 997 vs 996
The seats are - as Joost stated - made with this textile as they have the best geometric function for this part.
Why they changed... dont know, just think they want to have a different look as the diagonal weavend (:D) is used in to many other cars and parts. In my opinion the diagonal from the 996 looks better.
Why they changed... dont know, just think they want to have a different look as the diagonal weavend (:D) is used in to many other cars and parts. In my opinion the diagonal from the 996 looks better.
Re: Carbon Interior 997 vs 996
Quote:
Lars997 said:
Hey if you have any more questions feel free to ask. One thing, after tomorrow, I will be not online for the next 2 weeks.
Hi
come back yet?Just for fun, as you said the CF door sills are pure CF, so I am guessing the standard smaller plastic one is lighter or the CF one?
Re: Carbon Interior 997 vs 996
Quote:
the CF door sills are pure CF, so I am guessing the standard smaller plastic one is lighter or the CF one?
FWIW, I don't think any of it is "pure." I think it's CF heavily embedded in some sort of clear acrylic-type resin so it looks shine-y and has that glassy depth.
Re: Carbon Interior 997 vs 996
Quote:
MMD said:Quote:
the CF door sills are pure CF, so I am guessing the standard smaller plastic one is lighter or the CF one?
FWIW, I don't think any of it is "pure." I think it's CF heavily embedded in some sort of clear acrylic-type resin so it looks shine-y and has that glassy depth.
really?
I can only sure the RS wing and CGT bucket seats are pure cf.
really want to see some back side pics of the sills.
Re: Carbon Interior 997 vs 996
Quote:
997GT2 said:
really?
I can only sure the RS wing and CGT bucket seats are pure cf.
really want to see some back side pics of the sills.
What I mean is alot of the weight of these actual CF items _might_ be from the resin which they are coated with to make them have that glassy shine-y depth; makes them look pretty.
I don't know for sure except real carbon fiber isn't that nice to look at.
Re: Carbon Interior 997 vs 996
Quote:
MMD said:
I don't know for sure except real carbon fiber isn't that nice to look at.
I think you are talking about DRY CF isnt that good to look at? But both WET and DRY CF could be pure CF. The fake one are just based on plastic. And the real one are all CF.
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