Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: No Dino - Page1

Apr 29, 2007 3:44:39 PM

nberry: Rennteam VIP; Loc: La Jolla, USA , United States; Posts: 13737, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002

No Dino

according to Amedeo Felisa General Managing Director of Ferrari in an interview with R&T magazine. He also said they will never manufactuer a 4-door Ferrari nor will they build a "cheap" small Ferrari. When asked whether there will be a new Dino he smiled and shook his head. He indicated that Ferrari build about 5800 cars last year-all pre-sold by order-with a 2 1/2 year waiting list list of buyers standing in the wings. "We build cars with more than 400 horsepower with prices starting at about 130,000 Euros. That is our market."

Also, it appears that future performance of the engines will be predicated on turbocharging and direct injection. He said "In the past our goal was always higher power, higher speed. Now we go after efficiency as well, not more power at any cost."

Interesting times at Ferrari.

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Apr 29, 2007 3:54:10 PM

997GT3RS: Senior; Loc: Germany; Posts: 637, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 4, 2006; Reply to: nberry

Re: No Dino

Great news, turbocharging!

No Dino, that's what my dealer said too, that's making sense to me.

I don't understand why some people always talk about cheaper Ferrari etc....

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Apr 29, 2007 3:55:28 PM

JimFlat6: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Cave , United States; Posts: 8633, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 25, 2004; Reply to: nberry

Re: No Dino

Nick, Ferrari seems conflicted. Just in December they said that their new goal was to make 7500 cars per year to achieve maximum 1 shift factory output.

There maybe a Dino, but not a "cheap" one and it could have 450hp and be a mid engine 2+2 at a slightly lower price point than the F430's pricier successor.

Why should a Dino have only two seats or be "cheap"? They built lots of expensive 4 seat V8 Dino's, some turbo'd, so maybe a modernized Dino 308, 208 or Mondial might be more of a reality than a modern Dino 246 2 seater.

I cant see them not having a new model in the midengine 2+2 market, it has always done well for them.

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Apr 29, 2007 3:56:54 PM

joo22us: Junior; Loc: So Cal, US; Posts: 58, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 22, 2007; Reply to: nberry

Re: No Dino

Thank God!!! for no 4-door or "cheap" small Ferrari. The last thing I want to see around me (right after I've bought the F430) is a Ferrari Boxster or Cayenne. That happened to me right after I bought the 996 Turbo. I talked to my guy at BofBH and he said the same thing, no Dino. He also said no F430 replacement until at least 2009. Of course he's a salesman so I don't know how much you can bank on it but so far he seems as if he's a straight-shooter...

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Apr 29, 2007 4:58:17 PM

nberry: Rennteam VIP; Loc: La Jolla, USA , United States; Posts: 13737, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: joo22us

Re: No Dino

Quote:
joo22us said:
Thank God!!! for no 4-door or "cheap" small Ferrari. The last thing I want to see around me (right after I've bought the F430) is a Ferrari Boxster or Cayenne. That happened to me right after I bought the 996 Turbo. I talked to my guy at BofBH and he said the same thing, no Dino. He also said no F430 replacement until at least 2009. Of course he's a salesman so I don't know how much you can bank on it but so far he seems as if he's a straight-shooter...

The replacement will be Y2009 introduced in latter part of 2008.

Jim, I have a nagging feeling that Ferrari is contemplating another model which would fit the criteria of not cheap and over 400hp. However, all their top executives have been adamant in denying such a car. Their niche is the market he described.

Of course they may have the Porsche credibility. Recall about 4 years ago Porsche executives adamantly denying they would build a sedan? Money has a way of changing people.

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Apr 29, 2007 5:08:40 PM

Rossi: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Home , Germany; Posts: 12680, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: nberry

Re: No Dino

Quote:
nberry said:
according to Amedeo Felisa General Managing Director of Ferrari in an interview with R&T magazine. He also said they will never manufactuer a 4-door Ferrari nor will they build a "cheap" small Ferrari. When asked whether there will be a new Dino he smiled and shook his head. He indicated that Ferrari build about 5800 cars last year-all pre-sold by order-with a 2 1/2 year waiting list list of buyers standing in the wings. "We build cars with more than 400 horsepower with prices starting at about 130,000 Euros. That is our market."

Also, it appears that future performance of the engines will be predicated on turbocharging and direct injection. He said "In the past our goal was always higher power, higher speed. Now we go after efficiency as well, not more power at any cost."

Interesting times at Ferrari.

Well, if we look at the current F430, we'll find a base price of nearly 160k Euro. That's already a whopping 30k more than the mentioned starting price of 130k. And assuming that the replacement of the F430 won't become cheaper, but quite the contrary will start around 180k, we already have a difference of 50k Euro. And these 50k Euro leave plenty of space for a new model, which will be the new "small" Ferrari, but which won't be a "cheap" Ferrari in any case.

And BTW, I heard Ferrari is already reconstructing their production lines and is trying to increase their production capacity.

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Apr 29, 2007 5:21:07 PM

nberry: Rennteam VIP; Loc: La Jolla, USA , United States; Posts: 13737, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: Rossi

Re: No Dino

Quote:
Rossi said:
Quote:
nberry said:
according to Amedeo Felisa General Managing Director of Ferrari in an interview with R&T magazine. He also said they will never manufactuer a 4-door Ferrari nor will they build a "cheap" small Ferrari. When asked whether there will be a new Dino he smiled and shook his head. He indicated that Ferrari build about 5800 cars last year-all pre-sold by order-with a 2 1/2 year waiting list list of buyers standing in the wings. "We build cars with more than 400 horsepower with prices starting at about 130,000 Euros. That is our market."

Also, it appears that future performance of the engines will be predicated on turbocharging and direct injection. He said "In the past our goal was always higher power, higher speed. Now we go after efficiency as well, not more power at any cost."

Interesting times at Ferrari.

Well, if we look at the current F430, we'll find a base price of nearly 160k Euro. That's already a whopping 30k more than the mentioned starting price of 130k. And assuming that the replacement of the F430 won't become cheaper, but quite the contrary will start around 180k, we already have a difference of 50k Euro. And these 50k Euro leave plenty of space for a new model, which will be the new "small" Ferrari, but which won't be a "cheap" Ferrari in any case.

And BTW, I heard Ferrari is already reconstructing their production lines and is trying to increase their production capacity.

Well, 130,000 Euros would be what the cost of a 430 coupe is here in the US ($170,000). He was being interviewed by a US reporter.

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Apr 29, 2007 5:32:06 PM

SrfCity: Expert; Loc: Orange County, CA; Posts: 1339, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 21, 2004; Reply to: nberry

Re: No Dino

I'm not buying it. IMO they're just playing with semantics.

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Apr 29, 2007 5:37:23 PM

JimFlat6: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Cave , United States; Posts: 8633, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 25, 2004; Reply to: nberry

Re: No Dino

Nick, credibility to Porsches executives might be an alien concept unless it means counting money and gaining body mass from gorging themselves at the trough.

But where are these new $170,000 F430's in America you mentioned?

I would not be surprised to see some states DOJ go after Ferrari dealers in the US for requiring customers to take part in Laddering schemes to be "eligible" to purchase a new car.

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Apr 29, 2007 6:41:27 PM

Rossi: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Home , Germany; Posts: 12680, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: nberry

Re: No Dino

Quote:
nberry said:
Quote:
Rossi said:
Quote:
nberry said:
according to Amedeo Felisa General Managing Director of Ferrari in an interview with R&T magazine. He also said they will never manufactuer a 4-door Ferrari nor will they build a "cheap" small Ferrari. When asked whether there will be a new Dino he smiled and shook his head. He indicated that Ferrari build about 5800 cars last year-all pre-sold by order-with a 2 1/2 year waiting list list of buyers standing in the wings. "We build cars with more than 400 horsepower with prices starting at about 130,000 Euros. That is our market."

Also, it appears that future performance of the engines will be predicated on turbocharging and direct injection. He said "In the past our goal was always higher power, higher speed. Now we go after efficiency as well, not more power at any cost."

Interesting times at Ferrari.

Well, if we look at the current F430, we'll find a base price of nearly 160k Euro. That's already a whopping 30k more than the mentioned starting price of 130k. And assuming that the replacement of the F430 won't become cheaper, but quite the contrary will start around 180k, we already have a difference of 50k Euro. And these 50k Euro leave plenty of space for a new model, which will be the new "small" Ferrari, but which won't be a "cheap" Ferrari in any case.

And BTW, I heard Ferrari is already reconstructing their production lines and is trying to increase their production capacity.

Well, 130,000 Euros would be what the cost of a 430 coupe is here in the US ($170,000). He was being interviewed by a US reporter.

No way that Felisa mixed up the currencies, Nick.

Only other explanation would be that he talked about the prices excluding VAT. The mentioned 130k would be more or less exactly the net price of the F430.

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Apr 29, 2007 6:48:22 PM

elysium: Senior; Loc: Oslo; Posts: 553, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 26, 2004; Reply to: nberry

Re: No Dino

Quote:
nberry said:
Quote:
Rossi said:
Quote:
nberry said:
according to Amedeo Felisa General Managing Director of Ferrari in an interview with R&T magazine. He also said they will never manufactuer a 4-door Ferrari nor will they build a "cheap" small Ferrari. When asked whether there will be a new Dino he smiled and shook his head. He indicated that Ferrari build about 5800 cars last year-all pre-sold by order-with a 2 1/2 year waiting list list of buyers standing in the wings. "We build cars with more than 400 horsepower with prices starting at about 130,000 Euros. That is our market."

Also, it appears that future performance of the engines will be predicated on turbocharging and direct injection. He said "In the past our goal was always higher power, higher speed. Now we go after efficiency as well, not more power at any cost."

Interesting times at Ferrari.

Well, if we look at the current F430, we'll find a base price of nearly 160k Euro. That's already a whopping 30k more than the mentioned starting price of 130k. And assuming that the replacement of the F430 won't become cheaper, but quite the contrary will start around 180k, we already have a difference of 50k Euro. And these 50k Euro leave plenty of space for a new model, which will be the new "small" Ferrari, but which won't be a "cheap" Ferrari in any case.

And BTW, I heard Ferrari is already reconstructing their production lines and is trying to increase their production capacity.

Well, 130,000 Euros would be what the cost of a 430 coupe is here in the US ($170,000). He was being interviewed by a US reporter.

It's not possible to translate directly from EURO to USD prices using the current USD value, the markets are different and so are the prices. A direct USD - EUR on a 1-1 basis is more realistic, giving a price of the new Ferrari in 130k USD range. Nothing he said in that quote has contradicted a new car, he's only said it will have more than 400 hp and will cost more than 130k EUR (and most likely about 130k USD). I have no sources at Ferrari, but the way Ferrari officials answer these questions makes me believe this car will come

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Apr 29, 2007 8:34:24 PM

dhayek: Rennteam Master; Loc: Beirut , Lebanon; Posts: 3839, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 7, 2004; Reply to: elysium

Re: No Dino

130k euro is the international price without vat

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Apr 29, 2007 10:21:41 PM

GPdriver: Co-Pilot; Loc: Italy; Posts: 235, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 21, 2005; Reply to: nberry

Re: No Dino

Quote:
nberry said:
according to Amedeo Felisa General Managing Director of Ferrari in an interview with R&T magazine. He also said they will never manufactuer a 4-door Ferrari nor will they build a "cheap" small Ferrari. When asked whether there will be a new Dino he smiled and shook his head. He indicated that Ferrari build about 5800 cars last year-all pre-sold by order-with a 2 1/2 year waiting list list of buyers standing in the wings. "We build cars with more than 400 horsepower with prices starting at about 130,000 Euros. That is our market."

Also, it appears that future performance of the engines will be predicated on turbocharging and direct injection. He said "In the past our goal was always higher power, higher speed. Now we go after efficiency as well, not more power at any cost."

Interesting times at Ferrari.

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Apr 29, 2007 11:18:43 PM

timr: Newbie; Loc: douglas,; Posts: 24, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 1, 2006; Reply to: GPdriver

Re: No Dino

It's definitely coming.Its a V8 front engined 2+2. A certain Swiss dealer has confirmed that he has 10 orders already (with deposits) for delivery Fall 2008. Price is Euros 130k net.

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Apr 30, 2007 8:47:43 AM

zzboba: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Germany; Posts: 3115, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 8, 2002; Reply to: timr

Re: No Dino

Quote:
timr said:
It's definitely coming.Its a V8 front engined 2+2. A certain Swiss dealer has confirmed that he has 10 orders already (with deposits) for delivery Fall 2008. Price is Euros 130k net.

Yes.

This car is coming.

Not sure that it's a 2+2 though, but rear seats would be nice. I heard something about a metal folding roof that comes as standard.

Ferrari is going to build at least 5,000 units of these cars per year; there are even rumours about 10,000/yr.

I've got some doubts that Ferrari can handle this. Not building or selling them -- but anything after sales. Spare parts, service, insurance...

Should be interesting.

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Apr 30, 2007 8:50:25 AM

993Targa: Rennteam Pro; Loc: ZH , Switzerland; Posts: 2522, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 16, 2004; Reply to: zzboba

Re: No Dino

Maybe they have it built by Fiat?

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Apr 30, 2007 12:37:12 PM

Patriek: Senior; Loc:; Posts: 702, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 9, 2004; Reply to: 993Targa

Re: No Dino

Quote:
993Targa said:
Maybe they have it built by Fiat?

On my last visit to Modena, only a month ago, they where already building new production lines for this new model ..

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Apr 30, 2007 1:31:01 PM

Gary(SF): Senior; Loc: SF Bay Area; Posts: 510, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 4, 2003; Reply to: JimFlat6

Re: No Dino

Quote:
JimFlat6 said:

But where are these new $170,000 F430's in America you mentioned?

That is an accurate base price for the F430 coupe. My car was $177k with four options...Challenge wheels, power seats, shields, and yellow calipers. At the other end of the spectrum, a friend of mine just took delivery of a new Spider that listed at $268k.

Gary

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Apr 30, 2007 3:13:21 PM

SrfCity: Expert; Loc: Orange County, CA; Posts: 1339, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 21, 2004; Reply to: Patriek

Re: No Dino

Quote:
Patriek said:
Quote:
993Targa said:
Maybe they have it built by Fiat?

On my last visit to Modena, only a month ago, they where already building new production lines for this new model ..

Modena? So they're building this car at the Maser factory?

5K - 10K per year? I wonder how this will affect the brand considering it's almost current production or possibly double? That's why F brass is so defensive about calling it a cheap Ferrari. They're sensitive that it may not sell too well if it's considered a cheaper higher production car. It wouldn't be the first time it happened with a Dino line. The GTB4 had to be rebadged in the US with an F-badge because they weren't selling.

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Apr 30, 2007 3:22:24 PM

bostonmini: Veteran; Loc:; Posts: 924, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 31, 2003; Reply to: SrfCity

Re: No Dino

A turbo ferrari...yes yes I know the F40 but still...seems interesting, not necessarily good...at least fron and exhuast sound standpoint!

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Apr 30, 2007 5:35:35 PM

Rossi: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Home , Germany; Posts: 12680, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 11, 2002; Reply to: bostonmini

Re: No Dino

Quote:
bostonmini said:
A turbo ferrari...yes yes I know the F40 but still...seems interesting, not necessarily good...at least fron and exhuast sound standpoint!

Well, at least if it sounds similar to the F40...

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Apr 30, 2007 7:30:02 PM

janus: Veteran; Loc: Croatia; Posts: 1067, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 13, 2004; Reply to: Rossi

Re: No Dino

Sound-wise it could be an improvement, at least to some.

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May 1, 2007 4:31:24 AM

DavidSF: Senior; Loc:; Posts: 525, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 7, 2003; Reply to: nberry

Re: No Dino

Quote:
nberry said:
according to Amedeo Felisa General Managing Director of Ferrari in an interview with R&T magazine. He also said they will never manufactuer a 4-door Ferrari nor will they build a "cheap" small Ferrari. When asked whether there will be a new Dino he smiled and shook his head. He indicated that Ferrari build about 5800 cars last year-all pre-sold by order-with a 2 1/2 year waiting list list of buyers standing in the wings. "We build cars with more than 400 horsepower with prices starting at about 130,000 Euros. That is our market."

Also, it appears that future performance of the engines will be predicated on turbocharging and direct injection. He said "In the past our goal was always higher power, higher speed. Now we go after efficiency as well, not more power at any cost."

Interesting times at Ferrari.

I'm not surprised. The day Ferrari starts building a "cheap" small Ferrari or that cost less than 130,000 Euros is the day Ferrari starts taking responsiblity for building good looking cars and cars that don't catch on fire. Until that day, they will continue make buttloads of money at the expense of their customers, whom they are "spitting in their faces"

David

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May 1, 2007 9:14:10 AM

WAY: Rennteam Master; Loc: Melbourne, Australia; Posts: 3344, Gallery; Registered on: May 11, 2004; Reply to: DavidSF

Re: No Dino

I don't believe this will be the case. "Dino" exist, just not small nor cheap. Sounds like Dino will be around the price of a 360 Modena when it was new.

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May 1, 2007 9:19:05 AM

JimFlat6: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Cave , United States; Posts: 8633, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 25, 2004; Reply to: WAY

Re: No Dino

Quote:
WAY said:
I don't believe this will be the case. "Dino" exist, just not small nor cheap. Sounds like Dino will be around the price of a 360 Modena when it was new.

Yes. Traditionally the 2+2 (I think thats what it will be) mid engine Ferraris have been priced about 15% less than their 2 seater versions. Ferrari knows that there is a market for a new model of that sort from them, as there always been. It will not be positioned as a "starter" Ferrari or a F430 kind of car, so F430 zealots can rest at ease.

Its really a belated replacement for the Mondial.

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May 1, 2007 2:02:02 PM

360SPIDERF1: Newbie; Loc: France; Posts: 43, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 14, 2004; Reply to: nberry

Re: No Dino

Again, that's good news for me.

I don't think an other "entry level" Ferrari is a good idea, the V8 range (since the 308) is here for that.

5800 cars a year is allready too much.

Cheers,

Gregory

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May 2, 2007 2:56:17 AM

shin: Senior; Loc: no , Singapore; Posts: 671, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 19, 2004; Reply to: 360SPIDERF1

Re: No Dino

OK, NO 'Dino'.

The new Ferrari will have 435-450 hp, priced at least 130,000 Euros, and will NOT be called the Dino just like the F430 was not called the 'Monza'.

Whether they would call it the F400, F420 or F470, it IS the 'Dino' for me.

With that interview, Felisa might just as well CONFIRM that a 4th model is coming and it would be the cheapest one. If it's not, then he would not say 'more than 400 hp and 130,000 Euros' but with the F430 as the entry level on mind, and that means 'more than 480 hp' and most certainly not 130,000 Euros.

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