Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: Does a rear wing do anything on the street? - Page2

Apr 24, 2007 7:17:05 PM

69bossnine: Rennteam Pro; Loc: FL, USA , United States; Posts: 2028, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 27, 2005; Reply to: lukestern

Re: Does a rear wing do anything on the street?

You're not likely to have much difference with the aftermarket unit, compared to the factory auto-deploy unit. However, if they are claiming improved downforce, well then, you've got to worry about improving downforce UP FRONT, otherwise you may have a very dangerous front lift going on at high speeds...

Myself?? Fixed wings on Porsches NEVER look good. If they need to be there for function, so be it. But if you can get by with the auto-deploy wing, you're looking far better...

I used to think that wings on Porsche were the cat's pajamas when I was 10 years old... That alone should speak volumes....

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Apr 24, 2007 10:01:57 PM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: lukestern

Re: Does a rear wing do anything on the street?

Quote:
Lukas said:
Did i give you a to complicated task now or can your paper solution be extended so that the real speed is written on the paper when deployed

Okay how about this? Use a tripod fashioned out of insulated electrical wire to fasten and support a wooden dowel to the lowest edge of the spoiler. Use duct tape for the attachments points of the wire (and dowel) to the painted edges of the spoiler. Look in rearview mirror to have a friend trim dowel so you can just see it when spoiler is down. Rest is easy.

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Apr 25, 2007 12:52:26 AM

Leawood911: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Kansas, USA , United States; Posts: 6924, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 29, 2006; Reply to: Alex_997TT

Re: Does a rear wing do anything on the street?

Driving with the spoiler up makes the car look like a suit with the shirt not tucked-in and the belt hanging loose. Not my style but then again it may be 'the' new look. Like pants around the ankles thing.

When I switched from the 996 to the 997 I lost sight of the spoiler in the mirror. It took some time to see it up in the reflection of a car on the highway. My 12 year old spotted it first! It would be nice to see it somehow so that you can know when it is not working.

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Apr 25, 2007 3:08:06 AM

vtrader: Veteran; Loc: Los Angeles; Posts: 1086, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 6, 2004; Reply to: Leawood911

Re: Does a rear wing do anything on the street?

Quote:
Leawood911 said:
Driving with the spoiler up makes the car look like a suit with the shirt not tucked-in and the belt hanging loose. Not my style but then again it may be 'the' new look. Like pants around the ankles thing.

When I switched from the 996 to the 997 I lost sight of the spoiler in the mirror. It took some time to see it up in the reflection of a car on the highway. My 12 year old spotted it first! It would be nice to see it somehow so that you can know when it is not working.

On the 996s there was a warning message when the spoiler did not deploy. Originally when I started looking to get a 911, a dealer took me out with a 996 around the Rose Bowl. When the spoiler failed to deploy automatically, a warning message appeared.

I also think it is not cool to deploy the spoiler at low speeds. Is it just a poor man's GT3 wing? When I follow a 996 or 997 on the freeway during traffic, its pretty cool to see it raise and lower depending on traffic. Usually when I see one that is always deployed, it some jerk who bought a used one and thinks cutting in front of people is really cool and is being a total a-hole.

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Apr 25, 2007 3:54:37 AM

Silver Bullet: Veteran; Loc: Canada; Posts: 1126, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 24, 2004; Reply to: vtrader

Re: Does a rear wing do anything on the street?

How to spot a poseur: driving around at slow speeds with 911 rear spoiler up.

Is you really think it looks better that way, well fine then. That's a matter of taste I guess.

My taste runs with the spoiler down to not disturb the classic flowing lines of the 911.

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Apr 25, 2007 8:04:33 AM

lukestern: Expert; Loc: Somewhere , United Kingdom; Posts: 1377, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 15, 2005; Reply to: MMD

Re: Does a rear wing do anything on the street?

Quote:
MMD said:
Quote:
Lukas said:
Did i give you a to complicated task now or can your paper solution be extended so that the real speed is written on the paper when deployed

Okay how about this? Use a tripod fashioned out of insulated electrical wire to fasten and support a wooden dowel to the lowest edge of the spoiler. Use duct tape for the attachments points of the wire (and dowel) to the painted edges of the spoiler. Look in rearview mirror to have a friend trim dowel so you can just see it when spoiler is down. Rest is easy.

I really like your ideas

... Just thought of an easier one... I tell my friend to stay in his car behind me on the freeway... then I give him a ring on his cell-phone and he tells me exactly when the spoiler deploy and I can look at the speedo..

Regarding the spoiler up/down I think it looks hideous with the accordion look-alike style... So for me I would like it only to get up when only needed.. like >160km/h when it probably will fill it's purpose! Spoiler deployed stand-still at a redlight... not for me

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Apr 25, 2007 2:49:26 PM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: lukestern

Re: Does a rear wing do anything on the street?

Quote:
Lukas said:

Just thought of an easier one... I tell my friend to stay in his car behind me on the freeway... then I give him a ring on his cell-phone and he tells me exactly when the spoiler deploy and I can look at the speedo..

Muuuuuch simpler DIY method: Just bend a coat hangar wire like this and then stick it down with duct tape. Cover wire with tape first to protect paint.

Will also be cool because other drivers will think you got one of those new cell phones in the car!!!!

(stupid joke

)

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Apr 26, 2007 9:02:01 PM

Leawood911: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Kansas, USA , United States; Posts: 6924, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 29, 2006; Reply to: vtrader

Re: Does a rear wing do anything on the street?

vtrader -

Do not knock people who buy used. I have only bought used Porsches because it makes good sense. It's better to buy a used Porsche than a new Honda! As a result I have been driving 911s since almost turning 16. Now I am 43 and seven used Porsches (and 500K miles) later I still have never had a Porsche payment. I can now easily afford a new one,cash , but I'm not wrapped up in the whole 'new car' thing.

As a result of not buying new Porsches I now also do not have a house payment (yes, my house was USED too). It's all good.

My point is that People who buy used Porsches are no more likely to cut you off or be an a**hole in traffic than those who buy new. Nor are they more likely to drive with the spoiler up all the time.

If you wait until you can really afford a new Porsche you have simply wasted a lot of time driving a piece of crap instead.

Sorry about the rant. There is nothing wrong about buying a used Porsche.

In fact, we can all appreciate the fact that we should try to get folks to line up to buy our cars when we are done with them.

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Apr 26, 2007 10:09:34 PM

Scotty A: Senior; Loc: New Jersey; Posts: 606, Gallery; Registered on: May 31, 2006; Reply to: Leawood911

Re: Does a rear wing do anything on the street?

If you like having a spoiler at low speeds, then you may want to look into a 1962 Caddy for the fins.

I'd actually be more likely to consider a Turbo if it came with the standard retractable spoiler. I love the luxury aspects of the Porsche, but I hate the bits that are bling and non-functional. A fixed spoiler for what is mostly a road car, dual tailpipe tips, etc.

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Apr 26, 2007 10:26:09 PM

HWJunkie: Junior; Loc: Hollywood, CA; Posts: 87, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 29, 2007; Reply to: Scotty A

Re: Does a rear wing do anything on the street?

Leawood, I bought my Porsche used and so far so good... Although I would love to have a brand new car, if you find a used one that's suits your needs, why not. I got a $97K+ MSRP car for $68k + it is Porsche Certified until almost 2011... And still, since I bought it in early December of 06, it's gone down in value, imagine if I would have bought a brand new one...

Scotty A, the wing may be "bling thing" but some people may like them, obviously they do because there's plenty of people that have them, and the Turbos & GT3's come stock with them, and I would bet there's some of those guys out at a track somewhere and that wing is actually doing something...? I started this thread because I was curious, and it appears that unless you are going very fast, that a wing is simply for looks...

As far as the dual tailpipe comment, I'm pretty sure my car, that has PSE, actually uses both the tail pipes... it has two OUT pipes coming out of the muffler.....

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Apr 27, 2007 2:02:29 AM

jcs: Pilot; Loc: nj; Posts: 308, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 3, 2006; Reply to: lukestern

Re: Does a rear wing do anything on the street?

I still would not know exact @ what speed it deploy 118,119,120,121,122,123,123 km/h on the speedo? and when does it go back in it's closed position again... 67,68,69,70,71.72,73 km/h

:k

Are we talking REAL speed or does it deploy accoring to tacometer

.. Did i give you a to complicated task now or can your paper solution be extended so that the real speed is written on the paper when deployed

A few weeks after my friend got his 997 S , we went for a drive.
We drove behind each other and noted the speeds the spoilers deployed :

Mine came up at 74 mph and retracted at 39 mph (on his speedometer )

My friends went up at 76 mph and retracted at 38 mph ( on my speedometer )

hope this answers your question. I can only assume that others deploy similarily .

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Apr 27, 2007 11:18:30 AM

Alex_997TT: Rennteam Master; Loc: Reading , United Kingdom; Posts: 3320, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 20, 2005; Reply to: jcs

Re: Does a rear wing do anything on the street?

I will look it up for you...

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Apr 27, 2007 11:26:42 AM

Alex_997TT: Rennteam Master; Loc: Reading , United Kingdom; Posts: 3320, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 20, 2005; Reply to: Alex_997TT

Re: Does a rear wing do anything on the street?

ok, here it is...

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Apr 27, 2007 11:27:41 AM

Alex_997TT: Rennteam Master; Loc: Reading , United Kingdom; Posts: 3320, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 20, 2005; Reply to: Alex_997TT

Re: Does a rear wing do anything on the street?

more info..

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Apr 27, 2007 2:23:03 PM

vtrader: Veteran; Loc: Los Angeles; Posts: 1086, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 6, 2004; Reply to: Leawood911

Re: Does a rear wing do anything on the street?

Quote:
Leawood911 said:
vtrader -

Do not knock people who buy used. ...

I only knocking the poseurs and they seem to buy more used than new, at least what I have seen. Thats all. No offense to you.

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Jun 2, 2007 2:33:00 AM

eiffel: Junior; Loc: ca, or; Posts: 106, Gallery; Registered on: May 11, 2007; Reply to: Alex_997TT

Re: Does a rear wing do anything on the street?

the 911 has an elegant profile that I think is marred by a wing. I've never seen a wing I like. They all look ricey. When I see someone driving around town (or worse yet parked) with the rear wing up, I just shake my head in dismay.

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Jun 24, 2007 9:01:54 PM

swatch: Newbie; Loc: Virginia; Posts: 1, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 24, 2007; Reply to: Alex_997TT

Re: Does a rear wing do anything on the street?

Note last sentence of the manual page you diplayed. I get that warning signal all the time because spoiler on 997 Carrera 2S constantly blows fuse. Happens when I hit 75 mph. Not every time, but often enough to be really annoying, because each time I have to open fuse box and replace "15" fuse (row A, No. 3). Dealer has had car for days at a time trying to find fault, to no avail. Has anyone else experienced this? Does anyone have any ideas of how to cure it? Much obliged for any constructive idea.

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Jun 24, 2007 9:08:06 PM

eiffel: Junior; Loc: ca, or; Posts: 106, Gallery; Registered on: May 11, 2007; Reply to: swatch

Re: Does a rear wing do anything on the street?

my sisters rear wing makes a horrible noise going up and down. maybe something is impeding its travel?

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Jun 24, 2007 10:58:29 PM

meaker: Junior; Loc: NC; Posts: 89, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 18, 2006; Reply to: eiffel

Re: Does a rear wing do anything on the street?

Does a rear wing do anything on the street? I would say yes, that's why it comes up at 75mph.. The porsche engineers must have it there for a reason and not just for looks. Other wise it would stay up all the time..

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Jun 25, 2007 12:03:34 AM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: meaker

Re: Does a rear wing do anything on the street?

Quote:
meaker said:
The porsche engineers must have it there for a reason and not just for looks. Other wise it would stay up all the time..

I think it's there for looks. I gotta believe they could easily have made the Turbo with a non-Turbo 997 retractible spoiler.

Look at all past turbos and they all have wings, AFAIK _those_ wings were there to cover engine components and spoil airflow (at least up to the 996).

IMHO, Porsche built the current TT with a wing because they thought it would distinguish the TT and therefore sell more cars.

Past turbos:

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Jun 25, 2007 2:01:12 AM

cibergypsy: Pilot; Loc: FL, USA , United States; Posts: 366, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 21, 2006; Reply to: MMD

Re: Does a rear wing do anything on the street?

If we want to talk about a wing on a 911 being something for poseurs, we could then extend it more and say that today's Carreras are also for poseurs then since they aren't "real" 911s. I mean, only the GT3, Turbo and GT2 variants' engines have a relation to the original 911 engines and are true dry-sump motors. I am not bashing the 911s because I own a 997 C2S with a Powerkit... I am just letting people know that there are real enthusiasts that have owned 911s of some sort or another since they were 19 years old and that like an Aerokit on their car too. What is wrong with that? If you base it on being a poseur item, then the Carreras are also poseur 911s since they pretend to be something they are not.

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Jun 25, 2007 2:26:26 AM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: cibergypsy

Re: Does a rear wing do anything on the street?

I have a hard time with anything that isn't needed for intercity travel in Autobahn-conected Germany.

Buying and using the form-follows-function Autobahn-equipped car in the "drive 55" USA is as absurd as I want to get with _my_ Porsche.

Extra "racerboy" frills like all the stylized stuff gets me a bit annoyed. (19s, quads, wings, SC, etc)

In a few years I'll stop buying Porsches if they continue on this slippery slope to possible poseurosity.

If you enjoy racing your car around the track: by all means do whatever you have to do to equip your car to enjoy your off-street hobby to the max. If your car looks like a track car that's where you should be spending most of your time with it. If not: I'm sorry..., I think we're talking..., possible mild psychological disorder.

Disclaimer: I'm 40-something (an old f*rt) and have had a few drinks.

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Jun 25, 2007 2:38:09 AM

cibergypsy: Pilot; Loc: FL, USA , United States; Posts: 366, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 21, 2006; Reply to: MMD

Re: Does a rear wing do anything on the street?

Buy then an 80s Yugo for the "drive 55" USA... In Florida it is 70, which is not much more than 55 so, if one lives in Florida, the Yugo will still do. That way no one will have a hard time with something that isn't needed for intercity or intercontinental travel in the non-Autobahn connected USA.

Disclaimer: I'm just shy of 40, in denial of that fact and totally sober.

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Jun 25, 2007 3:55:07 AM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: cibergypsy

Re: Does a rear wing do anything on the street?

Quote:
cibergypsy said:
Buy then an 80s Yugo for the "drive 55" USA... In Florida it is 70, which is not much more than 55 so, if one lives in Florida, the Yugo will still do. That way no one will have a hard time with something that isn't needed for intercity or intercontinental travel in the non-Autobahn connected USA.

Disclaimer: I'm just shy of 40, in denial of that fact and totally sober.

Though I get your point, it's the original Porsche zeitgeist that I'm attracted to and that is what makes me own them. There's no substitute for that.

You need a drink, it's on me!

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Jun 25, 2007 12:44:00 PM

cibergypsy: Pilot; Loc: FL, USA , United States; Posts: 366, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 21, 2006; Reply to: MMD

Re: Does a rear wing do anything on the street?

I'll take that drink my friend! Thanks!

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Jun 25, 2007 1:27:54 PM

meaker: Junior; Loc: NC; Posts: 89, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 18, 2006; Reply to: MMD

Re: Does a rear wing do anything on the street?

I was referring to a non turbo cars since this is posted in the 997 section....I agree with you on the turbos. Distinguishing the TT form the rest and they sell more cars. With that I would believe that most like the wing on a turbo. I know I do....

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Jun 25, 2007 5:40:39 PM

HWJunkie: Junior; Loc: Hollywood, CA; Posts: 87, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 29, 2007; Reply to: meaker

Re: Does a rear wing do anything on the street?

I posted this to answer one question, exactly what the Subject says "Does a rear wing do anything on the street?"...

I wasn't asking if the stock "retracable rear spoiler" does anything because I pretty much already know that it doesn't do anything aerodynamically but when it goes up, it increases airflow to the engine....?

My question was regarding a wing... like the turbo has, or the Techart wing, or even the GT3 wing....

I believe the question was answered, and the answer is NO.

However, now that i've been to the track at 125+ mph... If I had a wing like the GT3 or GT3RS, does that make a difference at that speed?

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Jun 25, 2007 6:35:31 PM

69bossnine: Rennteam Pro; Loc: FL, USA , United States; Posts: 2028, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 27, 2005; Reply to: cibergypsy

Re: Does a rear wing do anything on the street?

Quote:
cibergypsy said:
If we want to talk about a wing on a 911 being something for poseurs, we could then extend it more and say that today's Carreras are also for poseurs then since they aren't "real" 911s. I mean, only the GT3, Turbo and GT2 variants' engines have a relation to the original 911 engines and are true dry-sump motors. I am not bashing the 911s because I own a 997 C2S with a Powerkit... I am just letting people know that there are real enthusiasts that have owned 911s of some sort or another since they were 19 years old and that like an Aerokit on their car too. What is wrong with that? If you base it on being a poseur item, then the Carreras are also poseur 911s since they pretend to be something they are not.

On one hand, I defend your right to enjoy an aero kit on your car..

On the other hand, your analogy is gawdawful. Who's to say that today's 911 isn't a "real" 911? It has survived in the same basic shape and layout for over 40 friggin years, produced by the same friggin company in the same town, and don't tell me that adding some antifreeze somehow makes it some sort of "imposter"... Nonsense, you're stretching...

There's a big difference between evolving a platform over decades of time... And running a spoiler for its looks rather than its function... It has nothing to do with 911 heritage, and everything to do with aesthetic preference.

It's not so much a question of whether you like the big honking spoilers on your 911, it's WHY you like it. If it looks right to you, that's dandy. If you think it looks better to those checking you out on the boulevard, well, that's a tad ego-driven to say the least. Only the mirror knows the truth, right??

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Jun 25, 2007 9:11:00 PM

Scotty A: Senior; Loc: New Jersey; Posts: 606, Gallery; Registered on: May 31, 2006; Reply to: 69bossnine

Re: Does a rear wing do anything on the street?

I actively DISlike the aero-style spoilers. I'm glad that the S comes only with the standard, pop-up spoiler. And given my driving patterns, I probably wouldn't select even that if it were an option.

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Jun 25, 2007 10:26:03 PM

SonOfStig: Pilot; Loc: United Kingdom; Posts: 387, Gallery; Registered on: May 28, 2005; Reply to: HWJunkie

Re: Does a rear wing do anything on the street?

"However, now that i've been to the track at 125+ mph... If I had a wing like the GT3 or GT3RS, does that make a difference at that speed?"

The answer is YES. In fact at anything over 70/75 it should start to have an effect... I'm not an aerodynamicist but that is the kind of number I have heard kicked around when people are talking about when aero begins to affect handling. For F1 and the like I think aero might even have an impact at lower speeds (very precise/extreme aero and very light cars).

To prove it you could always test a GT3 on the track with and without it's wing at those speeds and see what happens...

Which wing are you thinking of getting? A Carrera Cup type wing would be OTT for the street IMHO:

But the GT3 wing or similar would be fine even if it might be a bit over-sculpted for my taste:

The only problem is that people might think you're trying to make your 997 look like a GT3 - but who cares what anyone else thinks anyway?

Good luck with your decision / purchase.

SoS.

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