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    May 22, 2004 6:13:11 AM

    Rossi
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    Reply to: Bad TT

    Re: What is so special about Ferrari's?

    In Antwort auf:
    Bad TT said:
    RE the 612...I don't consider any 4 place car an exotic
    car. The Murcie in my opinion beats the 575 hands down.
    By the time the 360 replacement comes out there will be a Gallardo upgrade (2wd & lighter) so Ferrari will be playing second fiddle performance wise.



    Well, your opinion. 612, DB9, Bentley GT surely are exotic. My opinion.
    575 and Murcielago are not comparable. If there existed a mid-engined successor to the Testarossa, we could talk again.
    And concerning the Modena successor, let's just wait and see...

    May 22, 2004 2:37:26 PM

    WCH
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    Reply to: Rossi

    Re: What is so special about Ferrari's?

    "The Murcie in my opinion beats the 575 hands down."

    The 575 in my opinion beats the Murcie hands down.

    This is fun!

    On a more serious note, rossi, the Lambo folks seem to feel the 575 and Murcie compete for buyers. I disagree. I've always thought of the Murcie as an exotic sportscar to the 575's more refined GT.

    May 22, 2004 3:24:47 PM

    Gary(SF)
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    Reply to: lev

    Re: What is so special about Ferrari's?

    Quote:
    lev said:
    For example modena is almost twice in money than my 996tt, but my car is faster, more durable, better handling and even better gas consumption :-)




    Actually the difference is more like 20% rather than 100%. I paid 160 for my new 2004 Modena, and I think 996TT are around 135, right? And if you drive them back-to-back you'll see the difference, unless you REALLY don't want to.

    Gary

    May 22, 2004 3:26:53 PM

    Gary(SF)
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    Reply to: Bad TT

    Re: What is so special about Ferrari's?

    Quote:
    Bad TT said:
    I'm not talking about F1..Ferrari rules F1..it is the road that they have lost control of!



    I drove a Gallardo before I bought my 360, and decided on the 360. A lot more passion in the driving experience, in my opinion.

    Gary

    May 22, 2004 8:17:58 PM

    Bilal
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    Reply to: Gary(SF)

    Re: What is so special about Ferrari's?

    Whats so special about Ferrari's?

    EVERYTHING.

    The inspiration of that badge, the looks to die for, the sound you'll never hear from any other car in history.


    Although, I have never driven a Ferrari or been lucky to be inside one, my heart beats the fastest whenever I see one. Whether its a 360/575 or even a 456. Magazines littered with the unequalled driving experience of the marque, its hard to disagree the passion behind any one of their cars, past or present.

    The only thing wrong with Ferrari is torqueless engines and bad build quality, if the Germans take care of that, then we'll see the perfect cars on the road. The Gallardo may be an extremely capable car on the track, but it lacks the passion, the inspiration, the sheer enjoyment of all things Ferrari. The best thing about the Gallardo is its engine, smooth, torquey and powerful, transplant into the Ferrari 500M, and you have the car that dreams are made of. But enough about that, back to Ferrari, and back to what makes it special, for me...

    "the sound of a red Ferrari blasting past your car at 8000rpm"


    You hear that noise and you'll go weak at the knees...

    May 22, 2004 10:36:34 PM

    Gary(SF)
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    Reply to: Bilal

    Re: What is so special about Ferrari's?

    Quote:
    ///AMG Mercedes said:

    The only thing wrong with Ferrari is torqueless engines and bad build quality



    Neither is true of the 360.

    May 22, 2004 11:16:47 PM

    Justin
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    Reply to: Gary(SF)

    Re: What is so special about Ferrari's?

    Satisfactory torque is relative to vehicle weight and expectations. Compared to a Mercedes supercharged V8 or a biturbo V12? Ferrari's V8 is down on torque. Compared to an S2000? It has lots of it. Disadvantages on lightweight cars are somewhat removed by gearing, but not always.

    Some might be surprised to hear that F1 V10s don't have much more torque than a Golf.

    Build quality may be improved. Can you still feel wires behind the wheel on the 2004 models?

    May 23, 2004 12:25:36 AM

    Bilal
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    Reply to: Justin

    Re: What is so special about Ferrari's?

    The 360CS can't match the performance figures of the Gallardo and 911T, and is out of steam by 170-180mph. Forgive me for saying this but on a sportscar, a forced induction engine is not the best for purists. I know the 911T is an extremely capable car, its just that the Ferrari 3.6 V8 is a bit too puny despite its high hp/litre ouput, and only other alternative is the Gallardo's Audi-developed V10. Its been engineered to produce 80% of max torque at 1500rpms, and delivers a full 510Nm, which IMO is enough. Obviously I'm not even thinking of comparing them to Merc's torque outputs, but a good torquey and naturally aspirated engine is best for a sportscar. Combining everyday usability in the lower-mid ranges, and roaring hp at the higher end.

    IMO, this is what Ferrari lack, but then again, tdf360 begs to differ.

    May 23, 2004 12:32:43 AM

    Bad TT
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    Reply to: Bilal

    Re: What is so special about Ferrari's?

    Quote:
    [/quote

    "the sound of a red Ferrari blasting past your car at 8000rpm"


    Therein lies the problem they lag behind. They certainly won't pass a Gallardos ugly backside!

    May 23, 2004 3:30:05 AM

    Gary(SF)
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    Reply to: Justin

    Re: What is so special about Ferrari's?

    Quote:
    Justin said:

    Build quality may be improved. Can you still feel wires behind the wheel on the 2004 models?



    I have no idea! I do know I've owned the car for 3 months and 1500 mi and haven't noticed anything hanging down inappropriately, or had any problems at all with anything. I haven't actually run my hands up behind the wheel to check for wires, never occured to me. The build quality seems at least as good as my 2002 M3 or my Turbo Carrera.

    FWIW, the low-end torque is better than my M3, also.

    Gary

    May 23, 2004 7:43:33 AM

    Justin
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    Reply to: Gary(SF)

    Re: What is so special about Ferrari's?

    Personally, I don't see anything wrong with having to use some revs in a sports car, especially if you chose the F1 gearbox. It's not as if you will get tired shifting too much on a country road.

    May 23, 2004 10:14:52 AM

    MKSGRM
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    Reply to: Justin

    Re: What is so special about Ferrari's?

    Absolutely! Torque is absolutely fine. High revs are not the slightest problems with the F1.

    With regards to build quality: Visible quality is better than in Porsches.

    However, in my former Modena the clutch broke at km 28.000 (taking the entire gear with it...). Also, I had some serious problems with the operating temperature of the engine, which occurred after a total collapse of the cooling cycle. Apparently, a Ferrari worker in Maranello had a week moment when installing the a/c. Some part of the a/c apparently managed to cut through one of the important water pipes transporting cooling water for the engine. You can probably imagine the effect of this

    Unfortunately, following this occurrence the operating temperature of the engine has never been as it used to be.

    The positive thing: all repairs (including clutch/gear) were paid by Ferrari.

    May 23, 2004 5:05:12 PM

    Rossi
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    Reply to: Bilal

    Re: What is so special about Ferrari's?

    In Antwort auf:
    ///AMG Mercedes said:
    The 360CS can't match the performance figures of the Gallardo and 911T, and is out of steam by 170-180mph. Forgive me for saying this but on a sportscar, a forced induction engine is not the best for purists. I know the 911T is an extremely capable car, its just that the Ferrari 3.6 V8 is a bit too puny despite its high hp/litre ouput, and only other alternative is the Gallardo's Audi-developed V10. Its been engineered to produce 80% of max torque at 1500rpms, and delivers a full 510Nm, which IMO is enough. Obviously I'm not even thinking of comparing them to Merc's torque outputs, but a good torquey and naturally aspirated engine is best for a sportscar. Combining everyday usability in the lower-mid ranges, and roaring hp at the higher end.

    IMO, this is what Ferrari lack, but then again, tdf360 begs to differ.



    Perhaps this lack will be fixed with introducing the new Modena with its new V8.

    BTW, IMO the build quality of the 360 is absolutely stainless.

    May 23, 2004 5:07:34 PM

    Rossi
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    Reply to: WCH

    Re: What is so special about Ferrari's?

    In Antwort auf:
    WCH said:
    "The Murcie in my opinion beats the 575 hands down."

    The 575 in my opinion beats the Murcie hands down.

    This is fun!

    On a more serious note, rossi, the Lambo folks seem to feel the 575 and Murcie compete for buyers. I disagree. I've always thought of the Murcie as an exotic sportscar to the 575's more refined GT.



    That's it Will, I never said they were dircet opponents, it's the opposite. I absolutely agree with you, both fine cars, but different target groups.

    May 24, 2004 12:08:17 AM

    Scuderia
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    Reply to: Rossi

    Re: What is so special about Ferrari's?

    I'm not going to pretend to speak for all or even most ferraris, but my '88 328 GTB has 60k miles on it, original engine, original paint, original transmission. Never rebulit the engine or transmission.

    Thats not bad IMO.

    May 24, 2004 9:47:11 AM

    ferrari8
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    Reply to: Gary(SF)

    Re: What is so special about Ferrari's?

    tdf360, I'm very curious about where and possibly how you got such a good deal for you 04 Modena. I've been thinking about putting in an order myself, but the prices I've been quoted for are all at least 40k higher than how much you paid. Would you mind sharing your secret? Many thanks in advance.

    May 24, 2004 11:23:53 AM

    Rossi
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    Reply to: ferrari8

    Re: What is so special about Ferrari's?

    In Antwort auf:
    ferrari8 said:
    tdf360, I'm very curious about where and possibly how you got such a good deal for you 04 Modena. I've been thinking about putting in an order myself, but the prices I've been quoted for are all at least 40k higher than how much you paid. Would you mind sharing your secret? Many thanks in advance.



    What's so special about the price quoted by tdf360? I think a Modena is base price 136 or 128 Euro, w or w/o F1 respectively. So with the current exchange rate, 160 seems plausible.

    May 24, 2004 2:00:32 PM

    Gary(SF)
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    Reply to: ferrari8

    Re: What is so special about Ferrari's?

    Quote:
    ferrari8 said:
    tdf360, I'm very curious about where and possibly how you got such a good deal for you 04 Modena. I've been thinking about putting in an order myself, but the prices I've been quoted for are all at least 40k higher than how much you paid. Would you mind sharing your secret? Many thanks in advance.



    I'm not sure where you live, but in the US Ferrari dealers are prohibited from selling over list. I placed an order at Ferrari of San Francisco last year for a 2004 Modena and took delivery in February at list price.

    Gary

    May 24, 2004 2:05:59 PM

    Gary(SF)
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    Reply to: Rossi

    Re: What is so special about Ferrari's?

    Quote:
    rossi said:
    Quote:
    ferrari8 said:
    tdf360, I'm very curious about where and possibly how you got such a good deal for you 04 Modena. I've been thinking about putting in an order myself, but the prices I've been quoted for are all at least 40k higher than how much you paid. Would you mind sharing your secret? Many thanks in advance.



    What's so special about the price quoted by tdf360? I think a Modena is base price 136 or 128 Euro, w or w/o F1 respectively. So with the current exchange rate, 160 seems plausible.



    The base list when I bought my car was about 150k. F1 gearbox is 10k option (I have a 3-pedal car). There was a price increase shortly after my car was delivered of about 7.5k.

    Gary

    May 24, 2004 4:43:05 PM

    Rossi
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    Reply to: Gary(SF)

    Re: What is so special about Ferrari's?

    In Antwort auf:
    tdf360 said:
    The base list when I bought my car was about 150k. F1 gearbox is 10k option (I have a 3-pedal car). There was a price increase shortly after my car was delivered of about 7.5k.

    Gary



    Exactly what I was saying. US-Prices correspond with European prices, when you consider the exchange rate. Gary, was that 7.5k price increase the direct consequence of the strength of the Euro or was it a "normal" Ferrari price increase?

    May 24, 2004 10:13:08 PM

    Gary(SF)
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    Reply to: Rossi

    Re: What is so special about Ferrari's?

    Quote:
    rossi said:
    Gary, was that 7.5k price increase the direct consequence of the strength of the Euro or was it a "normal" Ferrari price increase?



    My understanding is it was a currency-based increase.

    Gary
     
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