Evo Mag Opinion on the current state of Performance Cars
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73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi
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Re: Evo Mag Opinion on the current state of Performance Cars
Gnil:This has been said since 5 or 6 years now and no real result , expect the 0.1 % of the market GT3 and AM .
It is quite a bit higher in the US, but not really sure it's significant when looking at the overall %...
Looks like one of the Manual mainstays (Corvette) may be going paddles only with the next (Mid-engine) model...
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73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi
Re: Evo Mag Opinion on the current state of Performance Cars
Grant:Gnil:This has been said since 5 or 6 years now and no real result , expect the 0.1 % of the market GT3 and AM .
It is quite a bit higher in the US, but not really sure it's significant when looking at the overall %...
Looks like one of the Manual mainstays (Corvette) may be going paddles only with the next (Mid-engine) model...
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73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi
I am looking at the general market , cars like all the S or RS Audi, AMG Mercedes , M BMW included . These cars all now all super fast . It could stop there , but manufacturer still aim more more confort linked with more performance and easier driving .
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964 Carrera 4 -- 997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991 GT3 RS
Re: Evo Mag Opinion on the current state of Performance Cars
Grant:
I do not agree with this article, maybe because I may not be part of the "target audience" for it, don't know?!
Fact is: As long as the power is drivable, no matter if it requires a skilled and responsible driver, everything is OK in my eyes. Cars like the Ferrari tdf or the Shelby GT500 I had, are nuts though. They require lots of driving skills (if you want to be really fast...) and...restraint. Luckily, there are not many cars like these two mentioned, so I am not worried. McLaren does a great job in "masking" the excessive power and performance of their cars with a fantastic traction control setup. Yes, I'm afraid this is the future, AWD does a similar job as well but of course raises the weight of the cars. The RS6 Performance he mentioned in the article? Didn't impress me. At all. Actually, I found the car to be quite underwhelming, one of the reasons I didn't get it as a family car. Too heavy (it feels that way!) and the brake system is in my opinion at the limit of what such a car should be equipped with. The PCCB brake on the Panamera (same weight) feels much more "confident" and has a better braking point feel. Also, believe it or not but the Panamera feels much lighter than the RS6. Time for the next RS6 generation...I guess.
Bottom line is: For me, driving fun has become more important than power and performance. Would I still drive a V10 engine if it had 200 hp only? Probably not but for my driving locations, mostly city and country roads, here and then a driving event or track, a V10 with 610 hp is pretty much all I need and want. The V10 makes up for the 4-5 seconds a McLaren is faster to 300 kph. Manual? I get it, I understand why people enjoy it. Not my thing but I understand. Again, this is about driving fun and one's personal preferences.
So in the end, I am happy we are able to choose. Everyone should be happy. Why this guy in the article takes the RS6 as an example of excessive power, is beyond my grasp though. I get the example with the Chiron but even here, I have to disagree. The Chiron is a statement, a marvel, a very bad example in my opinion. It is a technological masterpiece, a piece of (car) art and you cannot really argue about art, can you?! 
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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)
Aug 24, 2017 10:27:58 AM
- Leawood911
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Re: Evo Mag Opinion on the current state of Performance Cars
nberry:They'll keep increasing HP as long as buyers are willing to pay for it. There are many products which are sold with capabilities beyond a normal buyers use.
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"A man wrapped up in himself makes for a very small bundle."
If I am not able to do something I don't keep others from it. Personally I would not stand in the way of freedom.
Aug 24, 2017 10:30:49 AM
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RC
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Re: Evo Mag Opinion on the current state of Performance Cars
The freedom to choose. Exactly. Something people don't really seem to appreciate anymore in our society nowadays. Back to socialism I guess, two choices only and both available with a 10 years waiting time. 
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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)
Re: Evo Mag Opinion on the current state of Performance Cars
RC:
I think one of the article's points is that we're losing the choice of an analog driver's car that focuses on excitement and involvement over specs.
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73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi
Re: Evo Mag Opinion on the current state of Performance Cars
Grant:RC:
I think one of the article's points is that we're losing the choice of an analog driver's car that focuses on excitement and involvement over specs.
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73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi
I'm not so sure...I rather think he meant that such high powered cars are pointless and took the RS6(???) as an example. Actually, the RS6 is the best example that a heavy (over 2 tons) station wagon needs power. 
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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)
Re: Evo Mag Opinion on the current state of Performance Cars
RC:Grant:RC:
I think one of the article's points is that we're losing the choice of an analog driver's car that focuses on excitement and involvement over specs.
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73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi
I'm not so sure...I rather think he meant that such high powered cars are pointless and took the RS6(???) as an example. Actually, the RS6 is the best example that a heavy (over 2 tons) station wagon needs power.
I understood that he says people have been asking more power and easier cars , and that's what we got ( RS6 ) but have lost the choice of car more '' fun '' . So I am joining Grant in his understanding .
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964 Carrera 4 -- 997.2 C2S , -20mm -- 991 GT3 RS
Re: Evo Mag Opinion on the current state of Performance Cars
RC: Actually, the RS6 is the best example that a heavy (over 2 tons) station wagon needs power.
No argument there 
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73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi
Re: Evo Mag Opinion on the current state of Performance Cars
Gnil:RC:Grant:RC:
I think one of the article's points is that we're losing the choice of an analog driver's car that focuses on excitement and involvement over specs.
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73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi
I'm not so sure...I rather think he meant that such high powered cars are pointless and took the RS6(???) as an example. Actually, the RS6 is the best example that a heavy (over 2 tons) station wagon needs power.
I understood that he says people have been asking more power and easier cars , and that's what we got ( RS6 ) but have lost the choice of car more '' fun '' . So I am joining Grant in his understanding .
No high performance car is really easy for drivers who are inexperienced. I think this is and always has been a misconception of modern cars. If these cars would be easy to drive fast, they wouldn't be crashed that often.
They may be easier to control (not the same as driving 
) in certain situations but in the end, you can't beat physics. Just take a RS6, fully accelerate and then do an emergency braking. Do the same in a A6 Diesel with (let's say 200 hp, don't have a clue what kind of engines are available now for the A6). Huge difference. One reason why Porsche changed the throttle response on the first Cayenne Turbo because apparently a housewife kissed a wall because she pressed the throttle too hard from standstill and forgot she is driving a 2.5 tons car.
Long story short: Not people are asking for more power and easier to control cars but...marketing departments.
Maybe I should compare it to our chancellor Merkel (sorry for mixing this with politics but you'll get my point soon): After she started to appeal to a broader population by doing less and less conservative politics, she got more votes. Same with cars: If they want to sell more cars, they need to appeal to a broader audience. To appeal to a broader audience, you cannot scare off people with cars like the F12 tdf. You build a FF. Just a stupid example maybe but...
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RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)
Re: Evo Mag Opinion on the current state of Performance Cars
The thing you all must keep in mind Is anyone and everyone is able to get a driver license. They are not tested as to whether they are good or bad drivers. To place a car with high hp in the hands of a bad driver is a public hazard. None of us want to around bad drivers in a high performance car. Killings themselves is one but to injure, maim or killing others is another. We have another thread bemoaning the fact the most US drivers are bad. Yet, car makers want increase hp and sell it to them.
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"A man wrapped up in himself makes for a very small bundle."
Re: Evo Mag Opinion on the current state of Performance Cars
nberry:The thing you all must keep in mind Is anyone and everyone is able to get a driver license. They are not tested as to whether they are good or bad drivers. To place a car with high hp in the hands of a bad driver is a public hazard. None of us want to around bad drivers in a high performance car. Killings themselves is one but to injure, maim or killing others is another. We have another thread bemoaning the fact the most US drivers are bad. Yet, car makers want increase hp and sell it to them.
I fully agree with Nick here.
Car crashes are mostly drivers' fault, not the cars.
in Vancouver, a lot of high performance cars are driven by the so called New drivers, bought to them by their rich parents. I bet 99% of them do not have any skills to control their cars.
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Tim
2010 997.2 GT3RS; 2008 Cayenne Turbo; 2006 911 Club Coupe; 2016 911 GTS Club Coupe; 2015 Macan S
Re: Evo Mag Opinion on the current state of Performance Cars
I live in the suburbs of Vancouver, South Surrey to be exact, though I am in Vancouver fairly often. I have to chuckle when I see most of these high-performance cars driving around downtown in traffic. Most of these cars will live a fairly boring life, maybe driven 5000 km a year and if they are lucky at an average speed of 40 km/h. As Tim says, lots of them young "N" drivers, where the driving experience is occasionally accelerating to 150 km/h in a straight line with traction control and dry road conditions. Put them in an 80s 911 with manual and no traction control, and the accident rate would be much higher. When I was in my 20s, I was usually driving between 60 - 70000 km per year in all weather conditions and at all speeds. Cannot beat experience and as a disclaimer, I do not consider myself to be an expert. AJ
Re: Evo Mag Opinion on the current state of Performance Cars
nberry:The thing you all must keep in mind Is anyone and everyone is able to get a driver license. They are not tested as to whether they are good or bad drivers. To place a car with high hp in the hands of a bad driver is a public hazard. None of us want to around bad drivers in a high performance car. Killings themselves is one but to injure, maim or killing others is another. We have another thread bemoaning the fact the most US drivers are bad. Yet, car makers want increase hp and sell it to them.
It's a short-term issue. Cars will be self-driving before long...
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73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (1,890 lbs), 06 EVO9 with track mods. Former: 16 Cayman GT4, 73 911S, Two 951S's, 996 C2, 993 C2, 98 Ferrari 550, 79 635CSi
Re: Evo Mag Opinion on the current state of Performance Cars
Grant:nberry:The thing you all must keep in mind Is anyone and everyone is able to get a driver license. They are not tested as to whether they are good or bad drivers. To place a car with high hp in the hands of a bad driver is a public hazard. None of us want to around bad drivers in a high performance car. Killings themselves is one but to injure, maim or killing others is another. We have another thread bemoaning the fact the most US drivers are bad. Yet, car makers want increase hp and sell it to them.
It's a short-term issue. Cars will be self-driving before long...
You're so right. Until then, I hope none of these idiots kill me.
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"A man wrapped up in himself makes for a very small bundle."
Aug 26, 2017 4:16:09 AM
- Leawood911
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