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Wonderbar said:
The Rapide is a beautiful, but absolutely useless design as a four door sports sedan. I crawled in and out of one several times at the Geneva show last year, and the back seat is tiny and cramped. A prime example of design over function.
I agree that the prototype pictures look bulky, but I do not agree with anyone else on this thread that it is a stretched media prank, etc. You guys are talking to yourselves, showing your usual biases. The Panamera's problem won't be its design--it will be whether or not there are enough buyers (in a very crowded niche) that will jump to a new brand.
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Dr. Phil said:Quote:
Wonderbar said:
The Rapide is a beautiful, but absolutely useless design as a four door sports sedan. I crawled in and out of one several times at the Geneva show last year, and the back seat is tiny and cramped. A prime example of design over function.
I agree that the prototype pictures look bulky, but I do not agree with anyone else on this thread that it is a stretched media prank, etc. You guys are talking to yourselves, showing your usual biases. The Panamera's problem won't be its design--it will be whether or not there are enough buyers (in a very crowded niche) that will jump to a new brand.
I think it's the other way around:
If anyone is able to make this a success, you can bet your shirt it will be Porsche. With their current momentum and brand value, they could probably rebadge a Lada and still manage to sell it with huge profits.
No doubt people will look at the design, but the Porsche brand is so powerful in itself, that even a less-than-perfect design will be no actual threat to sales.
Just look at the Cayenne.
The challenge you point to, whether buyers will jump to a new brand wont be the issue IMO.
AFAIK there are no other manufaturer offering a car like the Panamera with the same brand value as Porsche.
Unless Rolls Royce or Ferrari makes a similar car, choosing the Panamera will be a jump up the brand ladder for all clients.
You're right that useless design won't work in the long run, just as your example demonstrates.
The Panamera design looks practical - and very very dull.
It looks more like a clever marketing strategy than a company trying to demonstrate what they have held as a cornerstone value for decades: Superior and useful design.
It looks like something you would expect from Lexus - it's bulky, big and anything but elegant, sleek and Porsche-like.
Porsche is in a unique situation, where they could easily afford making bolder designs than that. Some would argue that they cannot afford NOT to make bold designs.
Unless the prototype on the pics is hiding a totally different car underneath, I think Porsche in the long run will lose a lot of potential Panamera clients to e.g. Audi. Despite the brandvalue of Porsche.
Feb 17, 2007 5:59:44 AM
Quote:
993S said:
I think many of you will have to eat your words when you will see the real thing.
It will be stunning I believe.
And the looks , room and Porsche image will make it a succes
Feb 17, 2007 6:58:52 AM
Quote:
Ron (Houston) said:Quote:
993S said:
I think many of you will have to eat your words when you will see the real thing.
It will be stunning I believe.
And the looks , room and Porsche image will make it a succes
No offense but stunning design doesn't apply to Porsche, does it? I'm a Porsche lover too don't get me wrong.
Stunning would be Aston Martin, Ferrari, Lambo...
Porsche has had stunning performance history but not design, really .
Quote:
Turbo Al said:Quote:
Dr. Phil said:Quote:
Wonderbar said:
The Rapide is a beautiful, but absolutely useless design as a four door sports sedan. I crawled in and out of one several times at the Geneva show last year, and the back seat is tiny and cramped. A prime example of design over function.
I agree that the prototype pictures look bulky, but I do not agree with anyone else on this thread that it is a stretched media prank, etc. You guys are talking to yourselves, showing your usual biases. The Panamera's problem won't be its design--it will be whether or not there are enough buyers (in a very crowded niche) that will jump to a new brand.
I think it's the other way around:
If anyone is able to make this a success, you can bet your shirt it will be Porsche. With their current momentum and brand value, they could probably rebadge a Lada and still manage to sell it with huge profits.
No doubt people will look at the design, but the Porsche brand is so powerful in itself, that even a less-than-perfect design will be no actual threat to sales.
Just look at the Cayenne.
The challenge you point to, whether buyers will jump to a new brand wont be the issue IMO.
AFAIK there are no other manufaturer offering a car like the Panamera with the same brand value as Porsche.
Unless Rolls Royce or Ferrari makes a similar car, choosing the Panamera will be a jump up the brand ladder for all clients.
You're right that useless design won't work in the long run, just as your example demonstrates.
The Panamera design looks practical - and very very dull.
It looks more like a clever marketing strategy than a company trying to demonstrate what they have held as a cornerstone value for decades: Superior and useful design.
It looks like something you would expect from Lexus - it's bulky, big and anything but elegant, sleek and Porsche-like.
Porsche is in a unique situation, where they could easily afford making bolder designs than that. Some would argue that they cannot afford NOT to make bold designs.
Unless the prototype on the pics is hiding a totally different car underneath, I think Porsche in the long run will lose a lot of potential Panamera clients to e.g. Audi. Despite the brandvalue of Porsche.
Totally agree, Doc,
As a current Audi S4 (and soon RS4) owner, and Porschephile hoping Porsche will make a killer family sedan, I'm afraid they are going to Caymanize the project, making sure the car is slower than a base 911 Carrera.
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993S said:Quote:
Ron (Houston) said:Quote:
993S said:
I think many of you will have to eat your words when you will see the real thing.
It will be stunning I believe.
And the looks , room and Porsche image will make it a succes
No offense but stunning design doesn't apply to Porsche, does it? I'm a Porsche lover too don't get me wrong.
Stunning would be Aston Martin, Ferrari, Lambo...
Porsche has had stunning performance history but not design, really .
the very first 928 was stunning in my eyes. When I first saw that car I in 77 I thought it was from an other planet.
Feb 17, 2007 5:18:05 PM
Quote:
Ron (Houston) said:
No offense but stunning design doesn't apply to Porsche, does it? I'm a Porsche lover too don't get me wrong.
Stunning would be Aston Martin, Ferrari, Lambo...
Porsche has had stunning performance history but not design, really .
Feb 17, 2007 5:26:23 PM
Quote:
Dr. Phil said:Quote:
Ron (Houston) said:
No offense but stunning design doesn't apply to Porsche, does it? I'm a Porsche lover too don't get me wrong.
Stunning would be Aston Martin, Ferrari, Lambo...
Porsche has had stunning performance history but not design, really .
I agree to some extent.
Stunning design is not Porsches trademark, altho EFFECTIVE/USEFUL design definately is one of Porsche's key values.
But if you dissect the design of almost any sportscar out there, the good ones (the ones we hail as icons or milestones) have a mixture of beauty and ugliness. An almost perfect design, almost perfect lines...and then they add a dissonant detail, line or element. Just to keep it fresh, to make us feel both attracted and repulsed at the same time.
The bad ones are usually the designs that are foreseeable, predictable and so nice that noone will really notice.
Ferrari has some great designs, but also some of the ugliest ever made.
Check out some of the work from the 70s and 80s, and you wont believe something that ugly could ever leave the drawing board.
I like the overall look of an F360 of 430. Its precense is stunning and the lines sleek and beautiful.
But look at the front? Only a mother could love a child with eyes that far apart. It looks like an alien! Butt-ugly IMO. And thats what makes the 430 worth looking at again and again.
Kinda like the Japanese gardeners, who uses ugly light to make the flowrs look beautiful.
The art is not only in creating beauty, but pairing beauty with "ugliness" or some kind of contrast.
Most of Porsches designs are conservative and forseeable, but destinct.
Porsches design is more a matter of company philosophy than a matter of taste and design.
Porsche has opted to make the 911 silhouette their primary asset and trademark. Hence the design will always have the same base, and be interpretations of the exactly same theme.
Built on a 50 year old design idea, that has been tweaked and adjusted ever since.
The 928 and 550 are different. The CGT also, altho the CGT is clearly inspired by the 996 and 550 design.
Is the CGT beautiful? The lines are awesome...and then it looks like the designers couldnt agree on making it a speedster with those classic rocketshaped thingies behind the seats, or a coupe.
So they made some butt-ugly inbetween solution.
But it's destinct! And its part of why the CGT is the CGT.
The Panamera will be long, sleek and lower than most sedans, so for those reasons alone it wont blend in with the rest of the traffic.
But the design itself is so dull and predictable, that you could easily mistake it for a mid-ninties Lexus.
It's not great design, but it is clever marketing.
Feb 17, 2007 6:43:51 PM
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racerx said:
3
Quote:
Wonderbar said:
I agree that the prototype pictures look bulky, but I do not agree with anyone else on this thread that it is a stretched media prank, etc. You guys are talking to yourselves, showing your usual biases. The Panamera's problem won't be its design--it will be whether or not there are enough buyers (in a very crowded niche) that will jump to a new brand.
Quote:
brunner said:
God, you guys just jump on any reason to complain...
You have NO IDEEA how that thing is going to look, so far it's just a box with wheels, yet you all whine about how the big bad porsche...
Feb 18, 2007 5:33:41 AM
Quote:
Turbo Al said:
Of course it's all speculation since we're staring at a mule, and anyhow, I'm more worried about performance than looks. Heck, it might even be better looking than a 599GTB. If only it could be near it in terms of performance, it could then be a winner.
Feb 18, 2007 5:54:23 AM