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    May 10, 2004 5:30:34 AM

    lev
    Pilot
    lev
    Loc: Canada, Toronto
    Posts: 397, Gallery
    Registered on: Jan 15, 2004

    summer tires - here we go again

    Guys,

    I need your opinion once again on this matter :-)

    I bought Michelin PS N1 summer tires and the dealer installed it on my TT about 2 weeks ago. Everything was great, I could see at least 20% improvement in car handling/traction comparing to my winter tires (Pirelli) I was driving with before.

    Anyway about 3 days ago, we had a rain here in Toronto, and on the wet roads the car started to drift when turning in speed range of 60-90 kmh 2nd and or 3rd gear respectively. The good thing is that its completely "controllable" drift and occurs only when there is a sharp turning, everything being ok when you driving straight or changing lines...

    I called the dealer and he said its pretty normal with Michelin sport Tires since it acts best with really warm weather and dry roads. Here in Toronto we get a lot of rain though :-)

    Good friend of my mentioned that I should adjust the tires pressure. Does anybody here had the same type of experience with Michelin PS N1 tires?

    May 10, 2004 1:15:53 PM

    Rookie
    Co-Pilot
    Rookie
    Loc: Berlin, Germany
    Posts: 268, Gallery
    Registered on: Dec 12, 2002
    Reply to: lev

    Re: summer tires - here we go again

    Hi Lev,

    have the same tyres on our 996 cab ... and no PSM ... and was very much impressed how good traction is in wet conditions !!! Only "problems" i had was when the tyres were really brandnew ... for the first 500 km you have this silicon on the surface that makes it a little bit tricky cornering fast ... knowing that i simply reduced speed first days ...

    And since you have 4wd with your 996 tt traction should be even better ???!!!

    Greetz

    May 10, 2004 1:51:03 PM

    lev
    Pilot
    lev
    Loc: Canada, Toronto
    Posts: 397, Gallery
    Registered on: Jan 15, 2004
    Reply to: Rookie

    Re: summer tires - here we go again

    The tires were brand new when I installed them. The tires had about 600km when the drifting on the wet road occured.

    May 10, 2004 1:52:17 PM

    FixedWing
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    FixedWing
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    Registered on: May 25, 2002
    Reply to: lev

    Wet traction and temperatures

    Curious, what are the temperatures?

    No direct experience with these tyres but I do know that they are very sensitive to the cold. Rain tends to be during colder periods and also tends to conduct the heat away from the tyres more quickly.

    This is particularly a problem on the track at the Nürburgring. In the rain it is necessary to be much more cautious and that means you cannot slide the car around as much and that means less heat in the tyre. We've noticed that more self confident and aggressive drivers tend to have an easier time with their tyres in the rain. The speculation is that these drivers are sliding their tyres more and therefore getting more heat into them. Then when they have an incident they aren't stone cold.

    FYI, I am most cautious in the rain. It isn't the sort of sliding around that you are talking about that worries me as that is pretty controllable with these modern tyres. It is that the manufacturers are improving the wet traction so much that if they ever do aquaplane at these high cornering loads you are so over your head that there is nothing you can do about it (and no, PSM won't save you).

    Are you running the full factory recommended tyre pressures in the tyre? The aquaplaning speed is a function of tyre pressure. Running lower pressures for comfort or traction lowers the aquaplane speed.

    Stephen

    May 10, 2004 2:12:44 PM

    lev
    Pilot
    lev
    Loc: Canada, Toronto
    Posts: 397, Gallery
    Registered on: Jan 15, 2004
    Reply to: FixedWing

    Re: Wet traction and temperatures

    Thanks Fixed Wing,

    The temp was about 10-12C at that day. The pressure is what Porsche recommends in the car book. I agree with you that when you drive the car for sometime the traction among other things start to behave "better". When the drifitng occures I was driving the car for sometime that day.

    What do you mean by saying - aquaplane speed?

    May 10, 2004 2:28:02 PM

    FixedWing
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    FixedWing
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    Posts: 870, Gallery
    Registered on: May 25, 2002
    Reply to: lev

    Re: Wet traction and temperatures

    There is a formula which will tell you exactly what speed a tyre will aquaplane at. That is what I mean by the aquaplane speed.

    The 10-12C temperature explains a lot. Also, after posting, I realised that you were comparing to winter tyres. Winter tyres are specifically formulated to operate at colder temperatures. So the traction will be better at these temperatures in the rain with winter tyres. I think you will find that as we get into the summer months things will improve. Every tyre is a compromise. These are just the compromises of these tyres.

    Stephen

    May 10, 2004 4:20:41 PM

    Justin
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    Justin
    Loc: San Diego, CA, USA
    Posts: 979, Gallery
    Registered on: Jan 12, 2003
    Reply to: lev

    Re: summer tires - here we go again

    Perhaps you should add ballast to the car so that it hyrdoplanes less. Maybe 400 .lbs or more so you can reach the 4000 .lbs mark. RC mentioned something along these lines would help it go around the Leipzig test track faster than a CGT! Oh, and you might need to have some springs with a higher rate made for this purpose.

    Seriously though, your situation sounds about normal to me. Tweaking the tire pressures a bit could very well help so play around with them.

    May 10, 2004 11:42:00 PM

    Al Hoover
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    Al Hoover
    Loc: Marina del Rey, CA, USA
    Posts: 4, Gallery
    Registered on: May 10, 2004
    Reply to: lev

    Re: summer tires - here we go again

    Lev:

    I have the PS N2's on my Turbo. They were very slick in the wet for the first 1000 miles. By 2000 miles they had plenty of stick. The initial slick issue is related to the tire mold release material used. Once this is worn away, you will have the grip you are looking for.

    May 11, 2004 2:06:05 AM

    lev
    Pilot
    lev
    Loc: Canada, Toronto
    Posts: 397, Gallery
    Registered on: Jan 15, 2004
    Reply to: Al Hoover

    Re: summer tires - here we go again

    Al,

    Thanks!!! I needed to hear that :-)
     
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