Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: Is the Ruf RT12 a serious alternative to Turbo - Page1

Feb 14, 2007 12:27:27 AM

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2002; Reply to: jamesdamanuk1

Re: Is the Ruf RT12 a serious alternative to Turbo?

Quote:
jamesdamanuk1 said:
OOW did anybody know that there is talk at Porsche that they are going for a flat 8. you cannot make a flat 6 any bigger then 3.8 at a push 4.0 so past that u need more and the 998 Maybe very well see the flat 8 with a larger 4.0 engine in it might make things alittle more interesting

Yes, a flat-8 would certainly be feasible. However, what worries me is the weight...

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Feb 14, 2007 2:30:37 AM

thuggy: Veteran; Loc: PA & CA , United States; Posts: 834, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 22, 2006; Reply to: MKSGR

Re: Is the Ruf RT12 a serious alternative to Turbo?

Quote:
MKSGR said:
Quote:
Crash said:
Quote:
trip said:
"Some reasonably powered car" Are you kidding me? Now I am a huge fan of horsepower, but to say your 599 has a reasonable amount of power and that the 997tt is unreasonably underpowered is absolutly ridiculous. If a car can do 0-200 kph in 12.1 (or better) I would say it has more than a reasonable amount of power.

trip, you don't understand where us Europeans stand on this. It isn't about 0-200 km/h here. It's all about 200-300 km/h. The 599 does it 10 seconds quicker than the Turbo . And yes, the Turbo is blisteringly quick (quick enough for me), but Markus has already previously owned an X50 TT, so for him the only logical move was a 599.

Exactly

In addition, I could not buy a 997TT as I feel that Porsche should not be supported for their mediocre (if not worse) product policy.

It was clear from the start (at least for those at Porsche who knew the specs) that the 997TT would face fierce competition. What did they do? They introduced a car which is just plain average (in the sportscar league of course).

Same performance level as Gallardo, F430, Z06 etc. They should have offered 520hp from the start - in order to preserve the TT's history of excellence and superior performance. They not even offer a PK. The GT2 is still light years away and will most likely not come with PSM.

As things are, I am not a customer of the 997TT. Thesy lost me.

I can understand your point of view and respect it. Given the results tuners have achieved from exhaust, header and ECU mods, seems like Porsche left a lot on the table as well and are not as tapped out on the 3.6L engine. They could have added Direct Injection as well and given an even better offering.

That said... I love mine!

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Feb 14, 2007 5:37:26 PM

MKSGR: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 8098, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2002; Reply to: Crash

Re: Is the Ruf RT12 a serious alternative to Turbo?

Quote:
Crash said:
I don't believe that even Markus requires much more than 600 bhp in his car .

Not at all! Even 550hp (from the factory) would be fully sufficient

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Feb 14, 2007 5:43:16 PM

MKSGR: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 8098, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2002; Reply to: thuggy

Re: Is the Ruf RT12 a serious alternative to Turbo?

I agree, the 997TT is a very nice (and very good) car. So, no wonder you love yours!

My problem with the 997TT could probably be called "psychological" in a way: I like to buy sportscars which stand out of the competition in terms of performance. Even if 100% of performance is never (or hardly never) used the knowledge that the performance is there does have a positive impact on my personal level of satisfaction with a car

Funny enough, the performance differences between a 997TT, GT3, 599GTB, LP640 etc. are so marginal that I will not experience them in the real world very often. However, I - as the driver - know that the performance difference does exist

That is enough for me in a way...

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Feb 14, 2007 6:50:14 PM

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2002; Reply to: MKSGR

Re: Is the Ruf RT12 a serious alternative to Turbo?

Quote:
MKSGR said:
I agree, the 997TT is a very nice (and very good) car. So, no wonder you love yours!

My problem with the 997TT could probably be called "psychological" in a way: I like to buy sportscars which stand out of the competition in terms of performance. Even if 100% of performance is never (or hardly never) used the knowledge that the performance is there does have a positive impact on my personal level of satisfaction with a car

Funny enough, the performance differences between a 997TT, GT3, 599GTB, LP640 etc. are so marginal that I will not experience them in the real world very often. However, I - as the driver - know that the performance difference does exist That is enough for me in a way...

And if one encounters an LP640 or a 599 on the Autobahn, he will wish for another 100 or so horsepower

.

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Feb 14, 2007 7:39:50 PM

MKSGR: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 8098, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2002; Reply to: Crash

Re: Is the Ruf RT12 a serious alternative to Turbo?

Quote:
Crash said:
Quote:
MKSGR said:
I agree, the 997TT is a very nice (and very good) car. So, no wonder you love yours!

My problem with the 997TT could probably be called "psychological" in a way: I like to buy sportscars which stand out of the competition in terms of performance. Even if 100% of performance is never (or hardly never) used the knowledge that the performance is there does have a positive impact on my personal level of satisfaction with a car

Funny enough, the performance differences between a 997TT, GT3, 599GTB, LP640 etc. are so marginal that I will not experience them in the real world very often. However, I - as the driver - know that the performance difference does exist That is enough for me in a way...

And if one encounters an LP640 or a 599 on the Autobahn, he will wish for another 100 or so horsepower .

That's probably true.

But then: how likely is it to encounter a 997TT on the AB while driving a 599GTB... Very unlikely - unless the drivers are RC and me and our meeting is not a coincidence

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Feb 14, 2007 9:13:05 PM

jesse: Co-Pilot; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 270, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 13, 2004; Reply to: jamesdamanuk1

Re: Is the Ruf RT12 a serious alternative to Turbo

Quote:
jamesdamanuk1 said:
... you cannot make a flat 6 any bigger then 3.8 at a push 4.0 so past that u need more and the 998 Maybe very well see the flat 8 with a larger 4.0 engine in it might make things alittle more interesting

That's definitely wrong.

Porsche should ask KORO ( Neckarsulm, ~30 miles in north of Stuttgart) how to extend the the displacement.
IRC Koro is holding a patent on it's technology unfortunately

> Link KORO

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Feb 14, 2007 10:34:59 PM

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2002; Reply to: MKSGR

Re: Is the Ruf RT12 a serious alternative to Turbo?

Quote:
MKSGR said:
Quote:
Crash said:
Quote:
MKSGR said:
I agree, the 997TT is a very nice (and very good) car. So, no wonder you love yours!

My problem with the 997TT could probably be called "psychological" in a way: I like to buy sportscars which stand out of the competition in terms of performance. Even if 100% of performance is never (or hardly never) used the knowledge that the performance is there does have a positive impact on my personal level of satisfaction with a car

Funny enough, the performance differences between a 997TT, GT3, 599GTB, LP640 etc. are so marginal that I will not experience them in the real world very often. However, I - as the driver - know that the performance difference does exist That is enough for me in a way...

And if one encounters an LP640 or a 599 on the Autobahn, he will wish for another 100 or so horsepower .

That's probably true.

But then: how likely is it to encounter a 997TT on the AB while driving a 599GTB... Very unlikely - unless the drivers are RC and me and our meeting is not a coincidence

That would be QUITE a coincidence

. And you better hurry up, too, before Christian installs some crazy 600 bhp kit in his Turbo

.

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Feb 15, 2007 8:05:03 AM

MKSGR: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 8098, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2002; Reply to: Crash

Re: Is the Ruf RT12 a serious alternative to Turbo?

Quote:
Crash said:
Quote:
MKSGR said:
Quote:
Crash said:
Quote:
MKSGR said:
I agree, the 997TT is a very nice (and very good) car. So, no wonder you love yours!

My problem with the 997TT could probably be called "psychological" in a way: I like to buy sportscars which stand out of the competition in terms of performance. Even if 100% of performance is never (or hardly never) used the knowledge that the performance is there does have a positive impact on my personal level of satisfaction with a car

Funny enough, the performance differences between a 997TT, GT3, 599GTB, LP640 etc. are so marginal that I will not experience them in the real world very often. However, I - as the driver - know that the performance difference does exist That is enough for me in a way...

And if one encounters an LP640 or a 599 on the Autobahn, he will wish for another 100 or so horsepower .

That's probably true.

But then: how likely is it to encounter a 997TT on the AB while driving a 599GTB... Very unlikely - unless the drivers are RC and me and our meeting is not a coincidence

That would be QUITE a coincidence . And you better hurry up, too, before Christian installs some crazy 600 bhp kit in his Turbo .

At least he could then test whether the promised 600hp are really there

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Feb 15, 2007 12:31:15 PM

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2002; Reply to: MKSGR

Re: Is the Ruf RT12 a serious alternative to Turbo?

Quote:
MKSGR said:
Quote:
Crash said:
Quote:
MKSGR said:
Quote:
Crash said:
Quote:
MKSGR said:
I agree, the 997TT is a very nice (and very good) car. So, no wonder you love yours!

My problem with the 997TT could probably be called "psychological" in a way: I like to buy sportscars which stand out of the competition in terms of performance. Even if 100% of performance is never (or hardly never) used the knowledge that the performance is there does have a positive impact on my personal level of satisfaction with a car

Funny enough, the performance differences between a 997TT, GT3, 599GTB, LP640 etc. are so marginal that I will not experience them in the real world very often. However, I - as the driver - know that the performance difference does exist That is enough for me in a way...

And if one encounters an LP640 or a 599 on the Autobahn, he will wish for another 100 or so horsepower .

That's probably true.

But then: how likely is it to encounter a 997TT on the AB while driving a 599GTB... Very unlikely - unless the drivers are RC and me and our meeting is not a coincidence

That would be QUITE a coincidence . And you better hurry up, too, before Christian installs some crazy 600 bhp kit in his Turbo .

At least he could then test whether the promised 600hp are really there

Hmm... I suspect the only thing you would be seeing through his window would be:

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Feb 15, 2007 1:35:04 PM

MKSGR: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 8098, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2002; Reply to: Crash

Re: Is the Ruf RT12 a serious alternative to Turbo?

Quote:
Crash said:
Quote:
MKSGR said:
Quote:
Crash said:
Quote:
MKSGR said:
Quote:
Crash said:
Quote:
MKSGR said:
I agree, the 997TT is a very nice (and very good) car. So, no wonder you love yours!

My problem with the 997TT could probably be called "psychological" in a way: I like to buy sportscars which stand out of the competition in terms of performance. Even if 100% of performance is never (or hardly never) used the knowledge that the performance is there does have a positive impact on my personal level of satisfaction with a car

Funny enough, the performance differences between a 997TT, GT3, 599GTB, LP640 etc. are so marginal that I will not experience them in the real world very often. However, I - as the driver - know that the performance difference does exist That is enough for me in a way...

And if one encounters an LP640 or a 599 on the Autobahn, he will wish for another 100 or so horsepower .

That's probably true.

But then: how likely is it to encounter a 997TT on the AB while driving a 599GTB... Very unlikely - unless the drivers are RC and me and our meeting is not a coincidence

That would be QUITE a coincidence . And you better hurry up, too, before Christian installs some crazy 600 bhp kit in his Turbo .

At least he could then test whether the promised 600hp are really there

Hmm... I suspect the only thing you would be seeing through his window would be:

Until the 600hp engine breakes down and you can see the Porsche lawyers explain why the warranty is no longer relevant

Also: think about the resale value of a 600hp 997TT...

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Feb 15, 2007 4:54:46 PM

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2002; Reply to: MKSGR

Re: Is the Ruf RT12 a serious alternative to Turbo?

Quote:
MKSGR said:
Quote:
Crash said:
Quote:
MKSGR said:
Quote:
Crash said:
Quote:
MKSGR said:
Quote:
Crash said:
Quote:
MKSGR said:
I agree, the 997TT is a very nice (and very good) car. So, no wonder you love yours!

My problem with the 997TT could probably be called "psychological" in a way: I like to buy sportscars which stand out of the competition in terms of performance. Even if 100% of performance is never (or hardly never) used the knowledge that the performance is there does have a positive impact on my personal level of satisfaction with a car

Funny enough, the performance differences between a 997TT, GT3, 599GTB, LP640 etc. are so marginal that I will not experience them in the real world very often. However, I - as the driver - know that the performance difference does exist That is enough for me in a way...

And if one encounters an LP640 or a 599 on the Autobahn, he will wish for another 100 or so horsepower .

That's probably true.

But then: how likely is it to encounter a 997TT on the AB while driving a 599GTB... Very unlikely - unless the drivers are RC and me and our meeting is not a coincidence

That would be QUITE a coincidence . And you better hurry up, too, before Christian installs some crazy 600 bhp kit in his Turbo .

At least he could then test whether the promised 600hp are really there

Hmm... I suspect the only thing you would be seeing through his window would be:

Until the 600hp engine breakes down and you can see the Porsche lawyers explain why the warranty is no longer relevant

Also: think about the resale value of a 600hp 997TT...

Yes, resale of tuned cars can be a real pain.

I just wonder how fast the Powerkit will be.

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May 28, 2007 6:26:53 PM

MKSGR: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 8098, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2002; Reply to: MKSGR

Re: Is the Ruf RT12 a serious alternative to Turbo?

Quote:
MKSGR said:
Quote:
gemini_zar said:
I'm about to change my 996 Turbo, but the 997 Turbo doesn't seem a big leap forward in term of sheer pace.
This is why, wanting a daily useable car, I began considering the RT12 an alternative, especially in the 4wd 650hp version, more than other alternatives as the Carrera GT or the F599 Fiorano, which are way too much a head-turners for my tastes.
But some points are still not clear to me about the RUF:
- What are the service intervals and overall reliability of the RT12?
- What will be the residual value of the car in about 3-4 years?
- Is there a true demand of used Rufs in Europe? Or even, does Ruf usually agrees to buyback the car?
- As anyone ever tried one and did it match the expectations?

I really hope U can give me some hints!

PS: By the way, a 997 GT2 with PDK and sufficiently light/powerful could resolve my dilemmas... IF IT WILL EVER COME OUT!!!

I also considered the RT12 (briefly) when I had to decide on my next sportscar.

Major drawbacks which made me focus on other alternatives were:

- While the engine seems to be pretty powerful RUF cars are usually not top-of-the-league when it comes to track performance / suspension setup
- I believe that 650hp in a car like this are far beyond what one could call reliable...
- ... which is reflected in the kind of warranty you will get for this car

As I drive my cars quite a lot (including a lot of intense high-speed AB travels) I don't think the RT12 is the right car for me.

The GT2 is very unlikely to get PSM - thus, not comparable to a 997TT in terms of safety standards.

While I agree with you on the benefits of an understated design (997TT, RT12 etc.) I finally reached the point where the 599GTB emerged as the only reasonable package left...

Porsche has nothing to offer beyond the standard 997TT. Sad but true.

BTW, reading these old posts of mine I think I should state explicitly that I was wrong in writing them

Based on our latest insights the RT12 should be worth trying

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