Crown

Quote:
gemini_zar said:
I'm about to change my 996 Turbo, but the 997 Turbo doesn't seem a big leap forward in term of sheer pace.
This is why, wanting a daily useable car, I began considering the RT12 an alternative, especially in the 4wd 650hp version, more than other alternatives as the Carrera GT or the F599 Fiorano, which are way too much a head-turners for my tastes.
But some points are still not clear to me about the RUF:
- What are the service intervals and overall reliability of the RT12?
- What will be the residual value of the car in about 3-4 years?
- Is there a true demand of used Rufs in Europe? Or even, does Ruf usually agrees to buyback the car?
- As anyone ever tried one and did it match the expectations?

I really hope U can give me some hints!

PS: By the way, a 997 GT2 with PDK and sufficiently light/powerful could resolve my dilemmas... IF IT WILL EVER COME OUT!!!

Quote:
gemini_zar said:
Thanks MKSGR!
From what you are saying, your use of the car is pretty similar to mine... So your doubts about the RUF reliability just add up to mines
Also the ease of the reselling of the RT12 seems to be a really huge obstacle to it's purchase...
Unfortunately I'm living in Rome, and the 599 GTB, even if absolutely stunning, is impossible to be driven here without getting too much "attention" (it's an euphemism...;)
Maybe I'll wait some more to see if the powerkit for the Turbo will be presented, and if it could be a better base for a little further power enhancement!
But here again... No disclosures about availability...

Quote:
gemini_zar said:
Thanks MKSGR!
From what you are saying, your use of the car is pretty similar to mine... So your doubts about the RUF reliability just add up to mines
Also the ease of the reselling of the RT12 seems to be a really huge obstacle to it's purchase...
Unfortunately I'm living in Rome, and the 599 GTB, even if absolutely stunning, is impossible to be driven here without getting too much "attention" (it's an euphemism...;)
Maybe I'll wait some more to see if the powerkit for the Turbo will be presented, and if it could be a better base for a little further power enhancement!
But here again... No disclosures about availability...

Quote:
Turbo Al said:

Quote:
gemini_zar said:
Thanks MKSGR!
From what you are saying, your use of the car is pretty similar to mine... So your doubts about the RUF reliability just add up to mines
Also the ease of the reselling of the RT12 seems to be a really huge obstacle to it's purchase...
Unfortunately I'm living in Rome, and the 599 GTB, even if absolutely stunning, is impossible to be driven here without getting too much "attention" (it's an euphemism...;)
Maybe I'll wait some more to see if the powerkit for the Turbo will be presented, and if it could be a better base for a little further power enhancement!
But here again... No disclosures about availability...

Except are you guys sure the 599 will be "reliable?"

Quote:
MKSGR said:

Quote:
Turbo Al said:

Quote:
gemini_zar said:
Thanks MKSGR!
From what you are saying, your use of the car is pretty similar to mine... So your doubts about the RUF reliability just add up to mines
Also the ease of the reselling of the RT12 seems to be a really huge obstacle to it's purchase...
Unfortunately I'm living in Rome, and the 599 GTB, even if absolutely stunning, is impossible to be driven here without getting too much "attention" (it's an euphemism...;)
Maybe I'll wait some more to see if the powerkit for the Turbo will be presented, and if it could be a better base for a little further power enhancement!
But here again... No disclosures about availability...

Except are you guys sure the 599 will be "reliable?"

Right now it is more of a hope However, the 599GTB comes with an official 3 year warranty. Also, should it not prove reliable it is easy to sell it with only very limited depreciation

Quote:
MKSGR said:

Quote:
gemini_zar said:
I'm about to change my 996 Turbo, but the 997 Turbo doesn't seem a big leap forward in term of sheer pace.
This is why, wanting a daily useable car, I began considering the RT12 an alternative, especially in the 4wd 650hp version, more than other alternatives as the Carrera GT or the F599 Fiorano, which are way too much a head-turners for my tastes.
But some points are still not clear to me about the RUF:
- What are the service intervals and overall reliability of the RT12?
- What will be the residual value of the car in about 3-4 years?
- Is there a true demand of used Rufs in Europe? Or even, does Ruf usually agrees to buyback the car?
- As anyone ever tried one and did it match the expectations?

I really hope U can give me some hints!

PS: By the way, a 997 GT2 with PDK and sufficiently light/powerful could resolve my dilemmas... IF IT WILL EVER COME OUT!!!

I also considered the RT12 (briefly) when I had to decide on my next sportscar.

Major drawbacks which made me focus on other alternatives were:

- While the engine seems to be pretty powerful RUF cars are usually not top-of-the-league when it comes to track performance / suspension setup
- I believe that 650hp in a car like this are far beyond what one could call reliable...
- ... which is reflected in the kind of warranty you will get for this car

As I drive my cars quite a lot (including a lot of intense high-speed AB travels) I don't think the RT12 is the right car for me.

The GT2 is very unlikely to get PSM - thus, not comparable to a 997TT in terms of safety standards.

While I agree with you on the benefits of an understated design (997TT, RT12 etc.) I finally reached the point where the 599GTB emerged as the only reasonable package left...

Porsche has nothing to offer beyond the standard 997TT. Sad but true.

Quote:
bostonmini said:

Quote:
MKSGR said:

Quote:
gemini_zar said:
I'm about to change my 996 Turbo, but the 997 Turbo doesn't seem a big leap forward in term of sheer pace.
This is why, wanting a daily useable car, I began considering the RT12 an alternative, especially in the 4wd 650hp version, more than other alternatives as the Carrera GT or the F599 Fiorano, which are way too much a head-turners for my tastes.
But some points are still not clear to me about the RUF:
- What are the service intervals and overall reliability of the RT12?
- What will be the residual value of the car in about 3-4 years?
- Is there a true demand of used Rufs in Europe? Or even, does Ruf usually agrees to buyback the car?
- As anyone ever tried one and did it match the expectations?

I really hope U can give me some hints!

PS: By the way, a 997 GT2 with PDK and sufficiently light/powerful could resolve my dilemmas... IF IT WILL EVER COME OUT!!!

I also considered the RT12 (briefly) when I had to decide on my next sportscar.

Major drawbacks which made me focus on other alternatives were:

- While the engine seems to be pretty powerful RUF cars are usually not top-of-the-league when it comes to track performance / suspension setup
- I believe that 650hp in a car like this are far beyond what one could call reliable...
- ... which is reflected in the kind of warranty you will get for this car

As I drive my cars quite a lot (including a lot of intense high-speed AB travels) I don't think the RT12 is the right car for me.

The GT2 is very unlikely to get PSM - thus, not comparable to a 997TT in terms of safety standards.

While I agree with you on the benefits of an understated design (997TT, RT12 etc.) I finally reached the point where the 599GTB emerged as the only reasonable package left...

Porsche has nothing to offer beyond the standard 997TT. Sad but true.

MKGSR-
Did you consider an SLR:)?

Quote:
harryo2b said:
Ask "hersperus" on Rennlist.org as he owns and thrashes his RT12 650 hp. It has done a few laps on the 'Ring as well after delivery.

Quote:
rhino said:
So is that RT12 a great car or what? I saw an orange one about 8 months ago and it's been the only one I have ever seen. That must be the ultimate Porsche! How would you rate it as an every day super car?

Quote:
MKSGR said:

Quote:
Turbo Al said:

Quote:
gemini_zar said:
Thanks MKSGR!
From what you are saying, your use of the car is pretty similar to mine... So your doubts about the RUF reliability just add up to mines
Also the ease of the reselling of the RT12 seems to be a really huge obstacle to it's purchase...
Unfortunately I'm living in Rome, and the 599 GTB, even if absolutely stunning, is impossible to be driven here without getting too much "attention" (it's an euphemism...;)
Maybe I'll wait some more to see if the powerkit for the Turbo will be presented, and if it could be a better base for a little further power enhancement!
But here again... No disclosures about availability...

Except are you guys sure the 599 will be "reliable?"

Right now it is more of a hope However, the 599GTB comes with an official 3 year warranty. Also, should it not prove reliable it is easy to sell it with only very limited depreciation

Quote:
turbo'S' said:

Quote:
MKSGR said:

Quote:
Turbo Al said:

Quote:
gemini_zar said:
Thanks MKSGR!
From what you are saying, your use of the car is pretty similar to mine... So your doubts about the RUF reliability just add up to mines
Also the ease of the reselling of the RT12 seems to be a really huge obstacle to it's purchase...
Unfortunately I'm living in Rome, and the 599 GTB, even if absolutely stunning, is impossible to be driven here without getting too much "attention" (it's an euphemism...;)
Maybe I'll wait some more to see if the powerkit for the Turbo will be presented, and if it could be a better base for a little further power enhancement!
But here again... No disclosures about availability...

Except are you guys sure the 599 will be "reliable?"

Right now it is more of a hope However, the 599GTB comes with an official 3 year warranty. Also, should it not prove reliable it is easy to sell it with only very limited depreciation

If the 599GTB is anything like my 575F1 then it will drop like a stone in depreciation terms.50% of the value in 18 months. It was also prohibitive to maintain even if you hardly ran it. Reliability is an issue too. Build quality was another downer.Modern V12 front engine Ferraris have never held up well!Sorry to be so negative about Ferrari but my experience wasnt a good one, the depreciation has probably tainted my view a bit.

Quote:
trip said:
"Some reasonably powered car" Are you kidding me? Now I am a huge fan of horsepower, but to say your 599 has a reasonable amount of power and that the 997tt is unreasonably underpowered is absolutly ridiculous. If a car can do 0-200 kph in 12.1 (or better) I would say it has more than a reasonable amount of power.

Quote:
Crash said:

Quote:
trip said:
"Some reasonably powered car" Are you kidding me? Now I am a huge fan of horsepower, but to say your 599 has a reasonable amount of power and that the 997tt is unreasonably underpowered is absolutly ridiculous. If a car can do 0-200 kph in 12.1 (or better) I would say it has more than a reasonable amount of power.

trip, you don't understand where us Europeans stand on this. It isn't about 0-200 km/h here. It's all about 200-300 km/h. The 599 does it 10 seconds quicker than the Turbo . And yes, the Turbo is blisteringly quick (quick enough for me), but Markus has already previously owned an X50 TT, so for him the only logical move was a 599.

Quote:
MKSGR said:

Quote:
Crash said:

Quote:
trip said:
"Some reasonably powered car" Are you kidding me? Now I am a huge fan of horsepower, but to say your 599 has a reasonable amount of power and that the 997tt is unreasonably underpowered is absolutly ridiculous. If a car can do 0-200 kph in 12.1 (or better) I would say it has more than a reasonable amount of power.

trip, you don't understand where us Europeans stand on this. It isn't about 0-200 km/h here. It's all about 200-300 km/h. The 599 does it 10 seconds quicker than the Turbo . And yes, the Turbo is blisteringly quick (quick enough for me), but Markus has already previously owned an X50 TT, so for him the only logical move was a 599.

Exactly

In addition, I could not buy a 997TT as I feel that Porsche should not be supported for their mediocre (if not worse) product policy.

It was clear from the start (at least for those at Porsche who knew the specs) that the 997TT would face fierce competition. What did they do? They introduced a car which is just plain average (in the sportscar league of course).

Same performance level as Gallardo, F430, Z06 etc. They should have offered 520hp from the start - in order to preserve the TT's history of excellence and superior performance. They not even offer a PK. The GT2 is still light years away and will most likely not come with PSM.

As things are, I am not a customer of the 997TT. Thesy lost me.

Quote:
rhino said:
When we first got the official numbers from the TT I had a hard time understanding MKSGR's point of view, but shortly after I understood whole heartedly. Porsche dropped the ball in the endzone purposely. They should have offered the TT with at least 520hp from the start. This car was supposed to kill the competition but in reality it just keeps up.

Quote:
MKSGR said:

Exactly

In addition, I could not buy a 997TT as I feel that Porsche should not be supported for their mediocre (if not worse) product policy.

It was clear from the start (at least for those at Porsche who knew the specs) that the 997TT would face fierce competition. What did they do? They introduced a car which is just plain average (in the sportscar league of course).

Same performance level as Gallardo, F430, Z06 etc. They should have offered 520hp from the start - in order to preserve the TT's history of excellence and superior performance. They not even offer a PK. The GT2 is still light years away and will most likely not come with PSM.

As things are, I am not a customer of the 997TT. Thesy lost me.

Quote:
hesperus said:

Quote:
MKSGR said:

Exactly

In addition, I could not buy a 997TT as I feel that Porsche should not be supported for their mediocre (if not worse) product policy.

It was clear from the start (at least for those at Porsche who knew the specs) that the 997TT would face fierce competition. What did they do? They introduced a car which is just plain average (in the sportscar league of course).

Same performance level as Gallardo, F430, Z06 etc. They should have offered 520hp from the start - in order to preserve the TT's history of excellence and superior performance. They not even offer a PK. The GT2 is still light years away and will most likely not come with PSM.

As things are, I am not a customer of the 997TT. Thesy lost me.

absolutely. the 964 Turbo was a beast, and virtually untouched at the time (though interestingly, it was often compared with the 'Vette ZR-1 back then, and the two ran each other quite close, at least in a straightline).

the 993TT moved the goalposts completely. there were no contemporary supercars that realistically came close.

the 996TT may not have been quite as crushingly superior, but it wasn't far off.

as others have pointed out, the 997TT is a COMPETENT effort, and it takes the notion of an "everyday supercar" another notch.

but IMO it is not the "air superiority fighter" the earlier Turbos once were...