Feb 6, 2007 11:02:21 PM
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Ron (Houston)
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Board: Porsche - 911 - 997
Language: English
Region: Worldwide
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Feb 6, 2007 11:21:03 PM
- MMD
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Reply to:
Ron (Houston)
Re: Porsche, wake up and smell the coffee
Agreed that Porsche has to do something fast and extremely impressive if they want to keep their reputation as THE sports car company.
The schnozzola on this R8 is gonna take some time for me to get used to though. I "like" the way they use the grille as a picture frame to feature the beautiful license plate
. Isn't there a better solution for plate placement; why does this problem seem so freeking difficult to solve?? Sheesch!
The schnozzola on this R8 is gonna take some time for me to get used to though. I "like" the way they use the grille as a picture frame to feature the beautiful license plate
. Isn't there a better solution for plate placement; why does this problem seem so freeking difficult to solve?? Sheesch!
997 still wins
According to Autocar. They tested both and came to the conclusion that the 997 just squeaks it. Better performance with less effort, nicer handling and steering. And surprisingly more practical in terms of storage space.
Audi wins on a better interior.
Open another bottle of the fizzy stuf Wendelin my old mate!
Audi wins on a better interior.
Open another bottle of the fizzy stuf Wendelin my old mate!
Re: Porsche, wake up and smell the coffee
Quote:
Puffy911 said:
I prefer the European license plates over US plates. The long and skinny proportions look better to me then the short wide ones here.
LOL. Yes, however please consider that the US plates would look beautifully proportioned by the elegant picture frame provided by the Audi grillework.
You can also cry foul on Motor Bland
They test a car priced at $120K (the Audi) vs a Porsche priced at $80K? Frankly for $120K you're in 997TT territory, and I suspect that Audi would look like the dogs breakfast after that little run in. A typically bad piece of journalism by Angus Fraser.
Re: Porsche, wake up and smell the coffee
It may be the perfect Sponge Bob sports coupe. 
Already denounced as a "junior" supercar and a car meant more for rich German hairdressers, "This German glamourpuss will appeal to older buyers who can't afford a Ferrari or a Lamborghini, and at Pounds76,725 for the manual version, it's a very good car for the money, but get the RS4 instead."
The Telegraph R8 review
Already denounced as a "junior" supercar and a car meant more for rich German hairdressers, "This German glamourpuss will appeal to older buyers who can't afford a Ferrari or a Lamborghini, and at Pounds76,725 for the manual version, it's a very good car for the money, but get the RS4 instead."
The Telegraph R8 review
Feb 7, 2007 12:00:20 AM
- CarlosF
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Reply to:
Ron (Houston)
Re: Porsche, wake up and smell the coffee
I don't think that the R8 is a dangerous competitor on the 911 market, because it is not a dayly driver :
a) There is only place in the car for a panty and a toothbrush, so travelling with your wife is not possible.
b) The sight to the right and left rear is very bad because of the sideblades.
So the R8 will compete against Ferraris and Lambs, not against the 911.
Carlos
a) There is only place in the car for a panty and a toothbrush, so travelling with your wife is not possible.
b) The sight to the right and left rear is very bad because of the sideblades.
So the R8 will compete against Ferraris and Lambs, not against the 911.
Carlos
Re: You can also cry foul on Motor Bland
You're thinking in cheap US prices. A 997 C4S X51 with no other options costs Euro 105k here. Easy to get to Euro 120k with only a short list of options. But I've heard the R8 was nearly as bad in that regard.
For the record, the TT costs Euro 140k here.
Regarding the front plate issue, Alfa Romeo puts the plate on the left side of the bumper. Unfortunately, you can't do that on the R8. I blame stupid car designers that decided that high-tech meant "grilles from the 40's"...
(I wonder where they intend to put the plate on the Alfa 8C, though
)
For the record, the TT costs Euro 140k here.
Regarding the front plate issue, Alfa Romeo puts the plate on the left side of the bumper. Unfortunately, you can't do that on the R8. I blame stupid car designers that decided that high-tech meant "grilles from the 40's"...
(I wonder where they intend to put the plate on the Alfa 8C, though
)
Feb 7, 2007 12:07:28 AM
- Alex_997TT
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Re: You can also cry foul on Motor Bland
Yeh, so $40k more expensive than a C4, with almost a 100bhp more, and it only posts slightly faster test figures.
I'm sorry but I would never spend that kind of money on an Audi. And I am a huge Audi fan.
...and I certainly don't agree with the C4 summary. Dowdy?! A hero to drive it fast?! Again, hmmmmm....
I'm sorry but I would never spend that kind of money on an Audi. And I am a huge Audi fan.
Quote:
1st Place
Audi R8
This car's a real game changer. Almost as fast and exotic looking as a Lamborghini, and as easy to live with as, well, an Audi.
2nd Place
Porsche 911 Carrera 4
No longer the obvious choice. Functional and durable, raw and tactile, but a little dowdy, and you have to be a hero to drive it really fast.
...and I certainly don't agree with the C4 summary. Dowdy?! A hero to drive it fast?! Again, hmmmmm....
Feb 7, 2007 12:18:56 AM
- VGA18
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Re: You can also cry foul on Motor Bland
A big TT and a pure Porsche
R8 may be a good car(especailly interior is the best imo) but Porsche's name is in the sportscar community for years. Remember the 8-9 years ago what kind of sportcar does Audi have. Not to mention Le Mans champions or Quattro rally stars. Just talking about public sport cars.
Audi R8 need to prove impressive things for more years, then it will be accepted like a Porsche.
R8 may be a good car(especailly interior is the best imo) but Porsche's name is in the sportscar community for years. Remember the 8-9 years ago what kind of sportcar does Audi have. Not to mention Le Mans champions or Quattro rally stars. Just talking about public sport cars.
Audi R8 need to prove impressive things for more years, then it will be accepted like a Porsche.
Feb 7, 2007 12:22:57 AM
- amazon
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Re: You can also cry foul on Motor Bland
Quote:
Alex (UK) said:
Yeh, so $40k more expensive than a C4, with almost a 100bhp more, and it only posts slightly faster test figures.
In belgium, (euro prices)
Audi R8 - 107.400
997C4 - 88.572
99C4S - 99.341
Targa4S - 107.569
997GT3 - 113.740
In my views, a fair fight would have been a 997C4s (maybe with x51). An other unfair fight would have been R8 V 997GT3. After all, the GT3 is only 6K more.
It looks like they chose the C4 on purpose.
Feb 7, 2007 12:24:59 AM
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Alex18_996CC
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Re: You can also cry foul on Motor Bland
I am in love with this car !!!!!, seriously!!!!,
but since the day I drived for the very first time a 911, that magic has stayed for ever in my veins, I doubt the R8 has that magical sound that 911's have, the utility, the character,the 40+years of continue design and evolution...It can't be compared the R8 vs a 911!!!!!
Just wait for the new facelift, or even better, get a carrera S with X51, and it will probably be cheaper than a basic manual R8!!!!!!!!!
but I still say the R8 looks definately nice!!
but since the day I drived for the very first time a 911, that magic has stayed for ever in my veins, I doubt the R8 has that magical sound that 911's have, the utility, the character,the 40+years of continue design and evolution...It can't be compared the R8 vs a 911!!!!!
Just wait for the new facelift, or even better, get a carrera S with X51, and it will probably be cheaper than a basic manual R8!!!!!!!!!
but I still say the R8 looks definately nice!!
Feb 7, 2007 12:27:22 AM
- VGA18
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Feb 7, 2007 12:32:55 AM
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Alex18_996CC
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Re: You can also cry foul on Motor Bland
Quote:
amazon said:
It looks like they chose the C4 on purpose.
Absolutely
Also I doubt R8 owners will order the car without any options, so that brings us to a price that could be equal or even passed by the 997gt3 price tag(options for gt3....xenon,red seatbelts, and very unlikely most owners will go for the cgt seats??........ but if porsche owners add pccb, now we are lost with the gt3 price!!!!
) If we equal price range in this case, and we are talking of THE SPORT!!!!!!!!CAR, cammon guys there is no SUBSTITUTE, AND EVEN LESS FOR THE NEW 997GT3
Feb 7, 2007 1:14:24 AM
- Holminator
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Re: Porsche, wake up and smell the coffee
Quote:
MMD said:
Agreed that Porsche has to do something fast and extremely impressive if they want to keep their reputation as THE sports car company.
The schnozzola on this R8 is gonna take some time for me to get used to though. I "like" the way they use the grille as a picture frame to feature the beautiful license plate
True.
Feb 7, 2007 1:16:12 AM
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Ron (Houston)
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Feb 7, 2007 1:24:17 AM
- jjl
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Re: You can also cry foul on Motor Bland
How is the R8 not a daily driver? Seems almost as practical as the 911, except for the rear seats, which only work for small children anyway. Plus, there is no doubt that the R8's shape is fresher, but the fact that the 911 shape is so familiar, and even dated in some eyes, is part of the point of having one, it's a classic. The test is seriously flawed in that, at a minimum, they should have tested a loaded C4S, if not a Turbo, to even out the prices a bit. Still, the R8 is clearly a competitor to the 911, no need to deny it...it pretty much thumped the 911 in this particular (unfair) test. Still LOVE the 911, though.
Feb 7, 2007 1:34:44 AM
- frayed
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Reply to:
Ron (Houston)
Re: You can also cry foul on Motor Bland
Retarded review. Audi does not have a history of building purist, visceral drivers cars. The R8 is not expected to change this. It weighs 3500+ lbs, translating into 3650+lb two seater, in the real world. It's a finely appointed GT car that can turn perhaps one fast lap before the brakes melt down.
Bleh.
I'll take the cheaper, lighter, faster 997 GT3 (US prices).
Bleh.
I'll take the cheaper, lighter, faster 997 GT3 (US prices).
Re: You can also cry foul on Motor Bland
Quote:
The Groom said:
Regarding the front plate issue, Alfa Romeo puts the plate on the left side of the bumper. Unfortunately, you can't do that on the R8. I blame stupid car designers that decided that high-tech meant "grilles from the 40's"...
(I wonder where they intend to put the plate on the Alfa 8C, though
You know what? I bet they don't care what the car looks like with a plate on it! People buy the thing in a showroom without a plate, see it in ads without a plate, and it never crosses the buyer's mind how "marginal" it will look with a plate on it. Probably no longer even an issue for designers once the car is sold and plated.
Re: You can also cry foul on Motor Bland
40 years of "911 killers"...
It is a good thing that Audi releases such a car and there will be plenty of customers for it. But what?
I bet that this aggressive styling will look out old in 10 years and by then the 993 C4S will look just as good as ever.
I like the car, but let's stop burying the 911 every time a new sports car is released...
(...and we yet have to have the new M3 out...)
It is a good thing that Audi releases such a car and there will be plenty of customers for it. But what?
I bet that this aggressive styling will look out old in 10 years and by then the 993 C4S will look just as good as ever.
I like the car, but let's stop burying the 911 every time a new sports car is released...
(...and we yet have to have the new M3 out...)
Re: You can also cry foul on Motor Bland
Audi has priced itself out of 911 territory in most markets - its even in danger of competing with its own Lambo Gallardo in soem markets.
R8 certainly not an everyday car, the interior looks great from the pictures, the outside is just plain ugly to me - far better looking carss, and no doubt a more exhilarating drive to be found elsewhere at that sort of money.
R8 certainly not an everyday car, the interior looks great from the pictures, the outside is just plain ugly to me - far better looking carss, and no doubt a more exhilarating drive to be found elsewhere at that sort of money.
Re: You can also cry foul on Motor Bland
Quote:
maquimike said:
With the 997 GT3, Porsche has done "something fast and extremely impressive". And the 997 C2S is the best driving car in it's price range in the world. Porsche innovation is alive and well, IMO ...
Ditto... The R8 seems like another "car of the moment" rather than something that has been honed over the years into a thoroughbred. Those that have driven and owned Porsche know that there really is no contest! It's an Audi... <yawn>
Feb 7, 2007 9:54:49 AM
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Carlos from Spain
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Re: You can also cry foul on Motor Bland
Quote:
Jeannot said:
40 years of "911 killers"...
It is a good thing that Audi releases such a car and there will be plenty of customers for it. But what?
I bet that this aggressive styling will look out old in 10 years and by then the 993 C4S will look just as good as ever.
I like the car, but let's stop burying the 911 every time a new sports car is released...
(...and we yet have to have the new M3 out...)
You took the words right out of my mouth.
Same old story all over again, a new sportcar comes out and inmediately magazine reporters come out with the "the 911 rival or killer" to get a story out of it. When the car finnally hits the streets and a couple of years have past, the 911 is still there at the top and everything is forgotten. Latest one was the AMV8, next one will the the new 4th gen M3, for the 4th time.
There is place for every car, and the more the better for all of us sport enthusiasts but the world order in sportcars is not going to change while Porsche keeps bringing out the unique 911 concept, that gets better everytime like they have for 40 years.
Feb 7, 2007 10:59:45 AM
- VGA18
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Reply to:
Carlos from Spain
Re: You can also cry foul on Motor Bland
Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:Quote:
Jeannot said:
40 years of "911 killers"...
It is a good thing that Audi releases such a car and there will be plenty of customers for it. But what?
I bet that this aggressive styling will look out old in 10 years and by then the 993 C4S will look just as good as ever.
I like the car, but let's stop burying the 911 every time a new sports car is released...
(...and we yet have to have the new M3 out...)
You took the words right out of my mouth.
Same old story all over again, a new sportcar comes out and inmediately magazine reporters come out with the "the 911 rival or killer" to get a story out of it. When the car finnally hits the streets and a couple of years have past, the 911 is still there at the top and everything is forgotten. Latest one was the AMV8, next one will the the new 4th gen M3, for the 4th time.
There is place for every car, and the more the better for all of us sport enthusiasts but the world order in sportcars is not going to change while Porsche keeps bringing out the unique 911 concept, that gets better everytime like they have for 40 years.
I can say 5th will be Skyline GTR. 6th New Maserati Coupe
I agree %100 to you
Feb 7, 2007 2:06:09 PM
- Porsche-Jeck
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Reply to:
Carlos from Spain
Re: You can also cry foul on Motor Bland
Quote:
Carlos from Spain said:
Same old story all over again, a new sportcar comes out and inmediately magazine reporters come out with the "the 911 rival or killer" to get a story out of it.
Knowing what has happened to all the 911 killers of the past the Audi board of directors must be scared by the fact that the R8 is presented as another 911 killer in the motorpress
The car reviews about the R8 seem just to sum up it's pros and cons but I couldn't find any enlightening words about it's character/"personality" or about the driver's involvement
"Video game steering", "notchy, deliberate" manual gearbox and "surging" R-tronic may not drag away many Carrera customers from the Porsche brand....and 13 sec slower NBR laptime compared to a similar powered GT3 is quite a gap.Of course the reviews of journalists doing some miles on 45mph Nevada roads (are there some curves in the desert roads ?
) shouldn't be taken as the final verdict but I'm a bit disappointed from what I read so far.Maybe we still have to wait for Porsche "to wake up", as the coffee smell isn't strong enough.
Feb 7, 2007 2:15:34 PM
- tocho1
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Re: You can also cry foul on Motor Bland
I saw this car at the Audi dealer in Manhattan a couple of months ago I think...I wouldn't say its ugly but it does not come even close to match the beauty and simplicity of the 911. Very few cars in the world do indeed. You can put any engine you want in it, but it will never be a classic.
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