Crown

Quote:
nberry said:
VKSF wrote
"Never understood why guys would aspire to use street-legal cars for a track....would rather get a track-focused car like 430C/FXX, w/no street-legal engineering compromises....similarly, never understood why guys would aspire to drive a track-oriented car on real-world public roads....some may view cars like CGT, GT2/3, etc as essentially confused attempts at wannabe racecars that are street-compromised for track duty, yet also struggle w/any real-world, public road duty..."


Amen!

Quote:
Rossi said:

Quote:
MKSGR said:
Whenever I would be driving the F430 I would tell myself: the 599 is faster in a straight line, the 599 is faster on the track, the 599 has a V12, the 599 has a better F1 gear-box etc.

Isn't that logical? The 599 is the newer car with the more advanced technology. When the 430 replaced the 360, you could have said the same about the 430 compared to the 575, only the other way round with the V8 being superior to the more expensive V12 (except of the sheer number of zylinders ). Was the 430 the better car then? I'd say no, both were highly desirable, the 430 as a midengined sports car, the 575 as a fantastic GT-sportscar.

The best model is always the car that has been presented last and this is what the car industry keeps on going.

Quote:
VKSF said:

Quote:
Rossi said:

Quote:
MKSGR said:
Whenever I would be driving the F430 I would tell myself: the 599 is faster in a straight line, the 599 is faster on the track, the 599 has a V12, the 599 has a better F1 gear-box etc.

Isn't that logical? The 599 is the newer car with the more advanced technology. When the 430 replaced the 360, you could have said the same about the 430 compared to the 575, only the other way round with the V8 being superior to the more expensive V12 (except of the sheer number of zylinders ). Was the 430 the better car then? I'd say no, both were highly desirable, the 430 as a midengined sports car, the 575 as a fantastic GT-sportscar.

The best model is always the car that has been presented last and this is what the car industry keeps on going.

Well said, Rossi

Doubt sophisticated buyers are as enamored by relative MSRP/hp/produc vol figures as many may believe....

Few yrs back when Enzo was new, latest-tech F flagship, knew a jaded owner of Enzo who actually preferred driving his then-new 360CS...viewed his CS as a more fun drive...

Know several current/former 65 owners who are eager to "trade-down" to new CL63 w/030, as they look forward to a chassis/tq balance w/useable traction vs real-world pavement...and like fact that 63 motor is some 250lb lighter than the old-tech, heavy 65 motor....

The rapid pace of today's tech/power advances is great, but most smart guys only care about them if they successfully translate to daily-useable/enjoyable power, precision and feel in real-world conditions....

Quote:
VKSF said:

Quote:
Rossi said:

Quote:
MKSGR said:
Whenever I would be driving the F430 I would tell myself: the 599 is faster in a straight line, the 599 is faster on the track, the 599 has a V12, the 599 has a better F1 gear-box etc.

Isn't that logical? The 599 is the newer car with the more advanced technology. When the 430 replaced the 360, you could have said the same about the 430 compared to the 575, only the other way round with the V8 being superior to the more expensive V12 (except of the sheer number of zylinders ). Was the 430 the better car then? I'd say no, both were highly desirable, the 430 as a midengined sports car, the 575 as a fantastic GT-sportscar.

The best model is always the car that has been presented last and this is what the car industry keeps on going.

Well said, Rossi

Doubt sophisticated buyers are as enamored by relative MSRP/hp/produc vol figures as many may believe....

Few yrs back when Enzo was new, latest-tech F flagship, knew a jaded owner of Enzo who actually preferred driving his then-new 360CS...viewed his CS as a more fun drive...

Know several current/former 65 owners who are eager to "trade-down" to new CL63 w/030, as they look forward to a chassis/tq balance w/useable traction vs real-world pavement...and like fact that 63 motor is some 250lb lighter than the old-tech, heavy 65 motor....

The rapid pace of today's tech/power advances is great, but most smart guys only care about them if they successfully translate to daily-useable/enjoyable power, precision and feel in real-world conditions....

Quote:
Crash said:

Quote:
VKSF said:

Quote:
Rossi said:

Quote:
MKSGR said:
Whenever I would be driving the F430 I would tell myself: the 599 is faster in a straight line, the 599 is faster on the track, the 599 has a V12, the 599 has a better F1 gear-box etc.

Isn't that logical? The 599 is the newer car with the more advanced technology. When the 430 replaced the 360, you could have said the same about the 430 compared to the 575, only the other way round with the V8 being superior to the more expensive V12 (except of the sheer number of zylinders ). Was the 430 the better car then? I'd say no, both were highly desirable, the 430 as a midengined sports car, the 575 as a fantastic GT-sportscar.

The best model is always the car that has been presented last and this is what the car industry keeps on going.

Well said, Rossi

Doubt sophisticated buyers are as enamored by relative MSRP/hp/produc vol figures as many may believe....

Few yrs back when Enzo was new, latest-tech F flagship, knew a jaded owner of Enzo who actually preferred driving his then-new 360CS...viewed his CS as a more fun drive...

Know several current/former 65 owners who are eager to "trade-down" to new CL63 w/030, as they look forward to a chassis/tq balance w/useable traction vs real-world pavement...and like fact that 63 motor is some 250lb lighter than the old-tech, heavy 65 motor....

The rapid pace of today's tech/power advances is great, but most smart guys only care about them if they successfully translate to daily-useable/enjoyable power, precision and feel in real-world conditions....

Why AMG doesn't build the 65s with 4-matic is anyone's guess .

Quote:
MKSGR said:

Quote:
Crash said:

Quote:
VKSF said:

Quote:
Rossi said:

Quote:
MKSGR said:
Whenever I would be driving the F430 I would tell myself: the 599 is faster in a straight line, the 599 is faster on the track, the 599 has a V12, the 599 has a better F1 gear-box etc.

Isn't that logical? The 599 is the newer car with the more advanced technology. When the 430 replaced the 360, you could have said the same about the 430 compared to the 575, only the other way round with the V8 being superior to the more expensive V12 (except of the sheer number of zylinders ). Was the 430 the better car then? I'd say no, both were highly desirable, the 430 as a midengined sports car, the 575 as a fantastic GT-sportscar.

The best model is always the car that has been presented last and this is what the car industry keeps on going.

Well said, Rossi

Doubt sophisticated buyers are as enamored by relative MSRP/hp/produc vol figures as many may believe....

Few yrs back when Enzo was new, latest-tech F flagship, knew a jaded owner of Enzo who actually preferred driving his then-new 360CS...viewed his CS as a more fun drive...

Know several current/former 65 owners who are eager to "trade-down" to new CL63 w/030, as they look forward to a chassis/tq balance w/useable traction vs real-world pavement...and like fact that 63 motor is some 250lb lighter than the old-tech, heavy 65 motor....

The rapid pace of today's tech/power advances is great, but most smart guys only care about them if they successfully translate to daily-useable/enjoyable power, precision and feel in real-world conditions....

Why AMG doesn't build the 65s with 4-matic is anyone's guess .

:

They don't have access to a proper AWD system (too much torque...)

P.S.: With AWD the CL65 would be my choice - no doubt

Quote:
Crash said:

Quote:
MKSGR said:

Quote:
Crash said:

Quote:
VKSF said:

Quote:
Rossi said:

Quote:
MKSGR said:
Whenever I would be driving the F430 I would tell myself: the 599 is faster in a straight line, the 599 is faster on the track, the 599 has a V12, the 599 has a better F1 gear-box etc.

Isn't that logical? The 599 is the newer car with the more advanced technology. When the 430 replaced the 360, you could have said the same about the 430 compared to the 575, only the other way round with the V8 being superior to the more expensive V12 (except of the sheer number of zylinders ). Was the 430 the better car then? I'd say no, both were highly desirable, the 430 as a midengined sports car, the 575 as a fantastic GT-sportscar.

The best model is always the car that has been presented last and this is what the car industry keeps on going.

Well said, Rossi

Doubt sophisticated buyers are as enamored by relative MSRP/hp/produc vol figures as many may believe....

Few yrs back when Enzo was new, latest-tech F flagship, knew a jaded owner of Enzo who actually preferred driving his then-new 360CS...viewed his CS as a more fun drive...

Know several current/former 65 owners who are eager to "trade-down" to new CL63 w/030, as they look forward to a chassis/tq balance w/useable traction vs real-world pavement...and like fact that 63 motor is some 250lb lighter than the old-tech, heavy 65 motor....

The rapid pace of today's tech/power advances is great, but most smart guys only care about them if they successfully translate to daily-useable/enjoyable power, precision and feel in real-world conditions....

Why AMG doesn't build the 65s with 4-matic is anyone's guess .

:

They don't have access to a proper AWD system (too much torque...)

P.S.: With AWD the CL65 would be my choice - no doubt

It would be many people's choice. I went to the local Benz dealer a few weeks ago, to look at the new S65. The car is amazing in every respect; build quality is excellent, it goes like Satan on speed and it really has presence in metallic black. However, what good does it do when you have to get another car for the winter, because AMG don't care to develop a proper AWD system ?

Quote:
Rossi said:

Quote:
Crash said:

Quote:
MKSGR said:

Quote:
Crash said:

Quote:
VKSF said:

Quote:
Rossi said:

Quote:
MKSGR said:
Whenever I would be driving the F430 I would tell myself: the 599 is faster in a straight line, the 599 is faster on the track, the 599 has a V12, the 599 has a better F1 gear-box etc.

Isn't that logical? The 599 is the newer car with the more advanced technology. When the 430 replaced the 360, you could have said the same about the 430 compared to the 575, only the other way round with the V8 being superior to the more expensive V12 (except of the sheer number of zylinders ). Was the 430 the better car then? I'd say no, both were highly desirable, the 430 as a midengined sports car, the 575 as a fantastic GT-sportscar.

The best model is always the car that has been presented last and this is what the car industry keeps on going.

Well said, Rossi

Doubt sophisticated buyers are as enamored by relative MSRP/hp/produc vol figures as many may believe....

Few yrs back when Enzo was new, latest-tech F flagship, knew a jaded owner of Enzo who actually preferred driving his then-new 360CS...viewed his CS as a more fun drive...

Know several current/former 65 owners who are eager to "trade-down" to new CL63 w/030, as they look forward to a chassis/tq balance w/useable traction vs real-world pavement...and like fact that 63 motor is some 250lb lighter than the old-tech, heavy 65 motor....

The rapid pace of today's tech/power advances is great, but most smart guys only care about them if they successfully translate to daily-useable/enjoyable power, precision and feel in real-world conditions....

Why AMG doesn't build the 65s with 4-matic is anyone's guess .

:

They don't have access to a proper AWD system (too much torque...)

P.S.: With AWD the CL65 would be my choice - no doubt

It would be many people's choice. I went to the local Benz dealer a few weeks ago, to look at the new S65. The car is amazing in every respect; build quality is excellent, it goes like Satan on speed and it really has presence in metallic black. However, what good does it do when you have to get another car for the winter, because AMG don't care to develop a proper AWD system ?

Owning some other cars for winter and other use surely isn't the problem for AMG owners.

Quote:
VKSF said:Grigio silverstone, blk leath; red calipers.

Quote:
Crash said:

Quote:
Rossi said:

Quote:
Crash said:

Quote:
MKSGR said:

Quote:
Crash said:

Quote:
VKSF said:

Quote:
Rossi said:

Quote:
MKSGR said:
Whenever I would be driving the F430 I would tell myself: the 599 is faster in a straight line, the 599 is faster on the track, the 599 has a V12, the 599 has a better F1 gear-box etc.

Isn't that logical? The 599 is the newer car with the more advanced technology. When the 430 replaced the 360, you could have said the same about the 430 compared to the 575, only the other way round with the V8 being superior to the more expensive V12 (except of the sheer number of zylinders ). Was the 430 the better car then? I'd say no, both were highly desirable, the 430 as a midengined sports car, the 575 as a fantastic GT-sportscar.

The best model is always the car that has been presented last and this is what the car industry keeps on going.

Well said, Rossi

Doubt sophisticated buyers are as enamored by relative MSRP/hp/produc vol figures as many may believe....

Few yrs back when Enzo was new, latest-tech F flagship, knew a jaded owner of Enzo who actually preferred driving his then-new 360CS...viewed his CS as a more fun drive...

Know several current/former 65 owners who are eager to "trade-down" to new CL63 w/030, as they look forward to a chassis/tq balance w/useable traction vs real-world pavement...and like fact that 63 motor is some 250lb lighter than the old-tech, heavy 65 motor....

The rapid pace of today's tech/power advances is great, but most smart guys only care about them if they successfully translate to daily-useable/enjoyable power, precision and feel in real-world conditions....

Why AMG doesn't build the 65s with 4-matic is anyone's guess .

:

They don't have access to a proper AWD system (too much torque...)

P.S.: With AWD the CL65 would be my choice - no doubt

It would be many people's choice. I went to the local Benz dealer a few weeks ago, to look at the new S65. The car is amazing in every respect; build quality is excellent, it goes like Satan on speed and it really has presence in metallic black. However, what good does it do when you have to get another car for the winter, because AMG don't care to develop a proper AWD system ?

Owning some other cars for winter and other use surely isn't the problem for AMG owners.

Point taken .

Quote:
Crash said:
Exactly. Thus, prospective 65 buyers go and buy an A8 W12 instead .

Quote:
Rossi said:

Quote:
Crash said:
Exactly. Thus, prospective 65 buyers go and buy an A8 W12 instead .

Agreed. A8, especialliy as a W12 is a fantastic car.

Quote:
Crash said:

Quote:
Rossi said:

Quote:
Crash said:
Exactly. Thus, prospective 65 buyers go and buy an A8 W12 instead .

Agreed. A8, especialliy as a W12 is a fantastic car.

I suspect that right now, Markus is sitting in his office, leaning back, hands folded behind his head and feeling pretty satisfied with himself .

Quote:
MKSGR said:

Quote:
Crash said:

Quote:
Rossi said:

Quote:
Crash said:
Exactly. Thus, prospective 65 buyers go and buy an A8 W12 instead .

Agreed. A8, especialliy as a W12 is a fantastic car.

I suspect that right now, Markus is sitting in his office, leaning back, hands folded behind his head and feeling pretty satisfied with himself .

Right However, this can change any second

Quote:
MKSGR said:

Quote:
VKSF said:

Quote:
Rossi said:

Quote:
MKSGR said:
Whenever I would be driving the F430 I would tell myself: the 599 is faster in a straight line, the 599 is faster on the track, the 599 has a V12, the 599 has a better F1 gear-box etc.

Isn't that logical? The 599 is the newer car with the more advanced technology. When the 430 replaced the 360, you could have said the same about the 430 compared to the 575, only the other way round with the V8 being superior to the more expensive V12 (except of the sheer number of zylinders ). Was the 430 the better car then? I'd say no, both were highly desirable, the 430 as a midengined sports car, the 575 as a fantastic GT-sportscar.

The best model is always the car that has been presented last and this is what the car industry keeps on going.

Well said, Rossi

Doubt sophisticated buyers are as enamored by relative MSRP/hp/produc vol figures as many may believe....

Few yrs back when Enzo was new, latest-tech F flagship, knew a jaded owner of Enzo who actually preferred driving his then-new 360CS...viewed his CS as a more fun drive...

Know several current/former 65 owners who are eager to "trade-down" to new CL63 w/030, as they look forward to a chassis/tq balance w/useable traction vs real-world pavement...and like fact that 63 motor is some 250lb lighter than the old-tech, heavy 65 motor....

The rapid pace of today's tech/power advances is great, but most smart guys only care about them if they successfully translate to daily-useable/enjoyable power, precision and feel in real-world conditions....

Just a word of caution: the CL63 appears to be an underperformer. Just read the second test with unfavourable results (i.e. 0-200 in around 18s (!))... Personally, I would rather stick with the CL600 ... and wait for the CL65

Quote:
Rossi said:

Quote:
Crash said:

Quote:
MKSGR said:

Quote:
Crash said:

Quote:
VKSF said:

Quote:
Rossi said:

Quote:
MKSGR said:
Whenever I would be driving the F430 I would tell myself: the 599 is faster in a straight line, the 599 is faster on the track, the 599 has a V12, the 599 has a better F1 gear-box etc.

Isn't that logical? The 599 is the newer car with the more advanced technology. When the 430 replaced the 360, you could have said the same about the 430 compared to the 575, only the other way round with the V8 being superior to the more expensive V12 (except of the sheer number of zylinders ). Was the 430 the better car then? I'd say no, both were highly desirable, the 430 as a midengined sports car, the 575 as a fantastic GT-sportscar.

The best model is always the car that has been presented last and this is what the car industry keeps on going.

Well said, Rossi

Doubt sophisticated buyers are as enamored by relative MSRP/hp/produc vol figures as many may believe....

Few yrs back when Enzo was new, latest-tech F flagship, knew a jaded owner of Enzo who actually preferred driving his then-new 360CS...viewed his CS as a more fun drive...

Know several current/former 65 owners who are eager to "trade-down" to new CL63 w/030, as they look forward to a chassis/tq balance w/useable traction vs real-world pavement...and like fact that 63 motor is some 250lb lighter than the old-tech, heavy 65 motor....

The rapid pace of today's tech/power advances is great, but most smart guys only care about them if they successfully translate to daily-useable/enjoyable power, precision and feel in real-world conditions....

Why AMG doesn't build the 65s with 4-matic is anyone's guess .

:

They don't have access to a proper AWD system (too much torque...)

P.S.: With AWD the CL65 would be my choice - no doubt

It would be many people's choice. I went to the local Benz dealer a few weeks ago, to look at the new S65. The car is amazing in every respect; build quality is excellent, it goes like Satan on speed and it really has presence in metallic black. However, what good does it do when you have to get another car for the winter, because AMG don't care to develop a proper AWD system ?

Owning some other cars for winter and other use surely isn't the problem for AMG owners.

Quote:
VKSF said:

Quote:
Rossi said:

Quote:
Crash said:

Quote:
MKSGR said:

Quote:
Crash said:

Quote:
VKSF said:

Quote:
Rossi said:

Quote:
MKSGR said:
Whenever I would be driving the F430 I would tell myself: the 599 is faster in a straight line, the 599 is faster on the track, the 599 has a V12, the 599 has a better F1 gear-box etc.

Isn't that logical? The 599 is the newer car with the more advanced technology. When the 430 replaced the 360, you could have said the same about the 430 compared to the 575, only the other way round with the V8 being superior to the more expensive V12 (except of the sheer number of zylinders ). Was the 430 the better car then? I'd say no, both were highly desirable, the 430 as a midengined sports car, the 575 as a fantastic GT-sportscar.

The best model is always the car that has been presented last and this is what the car industry keeps on going.

Well said, Rossi

Doubt sophisticated buyers are as enamored by relative MSRP/hp/produc vol figures as many may believe....

Few yrs back when Enzo was new, latest-tech F flagship, knew a jaded owner of Enzo who actually preferred driving his then-new 360CS...viewed his CS as a more fun drive...

Know several current/former 65 owners who are eager to "trade-down" to new CL63 w/030, as they look forward to a chassis/tq balance w/useable traction vs real-world pavement...and like fact that 63 motor is some 250lb lighter than the old-tech, heavy 65 motor....

The rapid pace of today's tech/power advances is great, but most smart guys only care about them if they successfully translate to daily-useable/enjoyable power, precision and feel in real-world conditions....

Why AMG doesn't build the 65s with 4-matic is anyone's guess .

:

They don't have access to a proper AWD system (too much torque...)

P.S.: With AWD the CL65 would be my choice - no doubt

It would be many people's choice. I went to the local Benz dealer a few weeks ago, to look at the new S65. The car is amazing in every respect; build quality is excellent, it goes like Satan on speed and it really has presence in metallic black. However, what good does it do when you have to get another car for the winter, because AMG don't care to develop a proper AWD system ?

Owning some other cars for winter and other use surely isn't the problem for AMG owners.

Interesting point....don't know how S550 4Matic holds up on true winter roads ...but I find myself driving rather conservatively even in the occasional rain (that we call "winter" in CA ), simply b/c I'd rather avoid an accident w/the many 6000lb SUVs being driven carelessly and too fast in the rain ....and I suspect the guy w/the $150K+ car will face litigation risk (no matter fault) in any accid in the US legal climate....

Quote:
amazon said:
Pics are supposed to come some where this year right?

Quote:
Crash said:

Quote:
amazon said:
Pics are supposed to come some where this year right?

Probably not. By the time he can tear away from the car it will already be spring 2008 .

Quote:
ResB said:

Quote:
Crash said:

Quote:
amazon said:
Pics are supposed to come some where this year right?

Probably not. By the time he can tear away from the car it will already be spring 2008 .

Can't believe he would deny us some pics as he would be contravening Rennteam statute.