Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: MSRP discount in the US - Page1

Dec 14, 2006 9:53:11 PM

hinckley: Junior; Loc: Boston, MA , United States; Posts: 131, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 4, 2006

MSRP discount in the US

I'm trying to finalize my order for a Targa over the next couple of days. Can the American members give me an idea of MSRP discounts received (if any) for individually speced cars? btw, the T4S has a base price of $96K and my spec looks like it'll be about $120K.

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Dec 15, 2006 2:29:32 AM

SVNSVN: Rennteam Pro; Loc: CA, USA; Posts: 2994, Gallery; Registered on: May 22, 2005; Reply to: hinckley

Re: MSRP discount in the US

5% by 2 dealers, beginning of this year ...

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Dec 15, 2006 3:17:55 AM

ADias: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Southwest USA , United States; Posts: 2495, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 9, 2004; Reply to: hinckley

Re: MSRP discount in the US

Quote:
hinckley said:
the T4S has a base price of $96K and my spec looks like it'll be about $120K.

A Turbo base costs $2k more and is probably already better equipped.

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Dec 15, 2006 7:12:48 AM

jplanaux: Junior; Loc: Louisiana; Posts: 112, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 10, 2006; Reply to: ADias

Re: MSRP discount in the US

Me and wifie went down and were very firm on 5% discount, dealer countered with 4.5%. I ended up wanting car more than the .05%, so I took the deal. I think if I was to order out of town, I could have got a better deal; but I wanted to attempt to establish a relationship with the dealer. Anyhow, I made this deal about 1 month ago for a spec'd 911.

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Dec 15, 2006 10:09:15 AM

easy_rider911: Rennteam VIP; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 22190, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 8, 2004; Reply to: jplanaux

Re: MSRP discount in the US

I would expect discounts also to vary by model depending upon how it may be selling i.e. it might be possible to get as much as 8-10% on a Cayman but maybe no discount at all on a GT3 or the upcoming GT2.

I know you are only concerned with US discounts, but FWIW, I got 7% on the car and options from my German dealer.

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Dec 15, 2006 2:17:32 PM

69bossnine: Rennteam Pro; Loc: FL, USA , United States; Posts: 2028, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 27, 2005; Reply to: easy_rider911

Re: MSRP discount in the US

I never asked for a percentage when I ordered my 997S back in '05. I just demanded $5,000 off or MSRP, and I got it. From what I could discern back then, the dealership had roughly $10K of margin to play with, so I split the difference. Obviously, as you add options, that margin increases proportionately. In any case, if you wan't to negotiate with percentages, I think 5% is a tad generous, 6% is more like it.

My opinion was that a $5K profit on my car was adequate, considering it was a special-order, and they didn't have to support that car on their showroom floor as "inventory" for a single day. They made money simply by doing some paperwork and computer work. If I were ordering one today, I'd ask for a real printout of my car, fully-spec'd, showing their cost and MSRP, and I'd offer $5,000 OVER what their cost was. That was basically what I did with my 997S, in that $5000-off MSRP landed me in the same relative price-point.

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Dec 15, 2006 3:32:26 PM

dkreidel: Co-Pilot; Loc: SoCal USA , United States; Posts: 167, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 10, 2006; Reply to: hinckley

Re: MSRP discount in the US

$5,000 discount on $101K list. The car was built to my spec and was only on the dealer's lot for 3 days. I requested a $5K discount and it was agreed to w/o any discussion.

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Dec 15, 2006 4:04:43 PM

BlackSparrow: Pilot; Loc: Bahamas , Bahamas; Posts: 424, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 28, 2006; Reply to: dkreidel

Re: MSRP discount in the US

I have the same problem, my Targa went up to 110 when Turbo was not far away with most of the options standard.. but then if you look at the insurance of the Turbo, vehichle registration, maitnence I'm sure it ends up being more.

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Dec 15, 2006 4:19:33 PM

Martini: Newbie; Loc: Indiana , United States; Posts: 48, Gallery; Registered on: May 8, 2005; Reply to: hinckley

Re: MSRP discount in the US

If saving $ is a priority for you (it was for me), then I recommend emailing many dealers in other states & asking for their best price. I spent a week doing this & haggling, & it was well worth my effort. Most dealers will do $1-5k off, but I was able to negotiate one to 8% off my total w/options! And I didn't mind travelling for pick up & driving it back. And my C4S cab came to over $122k w/options. Is this Turbo money? Sure, but w/ no options. And how many order the base turbo w/ no options? Not many. And I really enjoy my options & plan to keep my car. Haggle. It's not pleasant, but you can save a lot of money.

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Dec 15, 2006 6:28:09 PM

SciFrog: Rennteam VIP; Loc: USA , United States; Posts: 9870, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 15, 2005; Reply to: Martini

Re: MSRP discount in the US

Value wise, if you start speccing up a 997S, you are in TT territory. That's why my next 911 will be a TT...

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Dec 15, 2006 6:47:27 PM

Puffy911: Pilot; Loc: Denver, Colorado, USA; Posts: 474, Gallery; Registered on: May 29, 2006; Reply to: 69bossnine

Re: MSRP discount in the US

Quote:
69bossnine said:
If I were ordering one today, I'd ask for a real printout of my car, fully-spec'd, showing their cost and MSRP, and I'd offer $5,000 OVER what their cost was.

My comments below are targetted only for the USA market. I do not know how the car business works in other countries.

I do not believe you will ever get a single document that reflects the cost of the vehicle to the dealership. The salesmen may believe that the cost is one thing, but the cost to the franchise (dealership) owner may be less. I have no concrete information on how PCNA (Porsche North America) runs its business with its franchise owners but I do know for a fact that other brands offer the dealership managment "refunds" based on vehicle types, where it is in the production run, etc. [I believe in the US domestic market these are known as hold-backs.] Those refunds or discounts may never trickle down the sales team. They may show you a MSRP sticker and an invoice but at the end of the day the total cost that the dealer had to wire to PCNA may be less then that.

Many people may not realize that a dealership does not necessarily own the vehicle that is sitting on their lot for sale. Rather they "rent" it by the day to sit on their lot. Renting costs money, the longer a car sits the less profit can be realized from it. A good dealership accounting department will know how long a vehicle should sit on the lot before agressive discounting may be necessary to move it, and then fill it with an identical, yet "fresh" unit.

I love the car business!

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Dec 15, 2006 7:35:56 PM

devo: Veteran; Loc: NY , United States; Posts: 1107, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 31, 2006; Reply to: Martini

Re: MSRP discount in the US

Quote:
Martini said:
If saving $ is a priority for you (it was for me), then I recommend emailing many dealers in other states & asking for their best price. I spent a week doing this & haggling, & it was well worth my effort. Most dealers will do $1-5k off, but I was able to negotiate one to 8% off my total w/options! And I didn't mind travelling for pick up & driving it back. And my C4S cab came to over $122k w/options. Is this Turbo money? Sure, but w/ no options. And how many order the base turbo w/ no options? Not many. And I really enjoy my options & plan to keep my car. Haggle. It's not pleasant, but you can save a lot of money.

Maybe so, however the turbo's list of standard fare is far greater than any of the other carrera models. Add 5k to the turbo's price and you all of the options most people would want.

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Dec 15, 2006 10:38:53 PM

GRN2RSMO: Junior; Loc: NC, USA , United States; Posts: 114, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 21, 2006; Reply to: devo

Re: MSRP discount in the US

There is or was a carrera 4 convertible with a $97K MSRP in charlotte for 15 K off MSRP TIP, artic silver last weekend.

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Dec 15, 2006 10:43:58 PM

GRN2RSMO: Junior; Loc: NC, USA , United States; Posts: 114, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 21, 2006; Reply to: GRN2RSMO

Re: MSRP discount in the US

here is the link web page

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Dec 17, 2006 11:38:48 PM

Deven: Junior; Loc: Scottsdale, Arizona; Posts: 78, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 26, 2005; Reply to: GRN2RSMO

Re: MSRP discount in the US

If you are not averse to getting the car from out of state, I think you can get 6-7% off an ordered car. Sometimes the local deallers will be willing to match once you have a written offer.

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Dec 18, 2006 1:03:37 AM

Mark_A: Newbie; Loc: WA; Posts: 10, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 4, 2005; Reply to: hinckley

Re: MSRP discount in the US

Can anyone tell me why the Targa is comparatively so much more expensive than the other models?

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Dec 18, 2006 2:13:19 AM

hinckley: Junior; Loc: Boston, MA , United States; Posts: 131, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 4, 2006; Reply to: Mark_A

Re: MSRP discount in the US

Quote:
Mark_A said:
Can anyone tell me why the Targa is comparatively so much more expensive than the other models?

It's not. Its price fits precisely between the coupe and cab.

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Dec 18, 2006 9:47:57 AM

The Groom: Expert; Loc: EU; Posts: 1779, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 23, 2005; Reply to: hinckley

Re: MSRP discount in the US

The difference is that on the 997, you have to pay the Targa premium (which, as hinckley wrote, is smaller than the cab premium) AND the AWD premium.
The 996 Targa was a C2; the 997 Targa is a C4. Here's our $10k increase.

Of course, on the SC/3.2 and the 964, there was no such Targa premium, but the current Targa roof is pretty expensive to manufacture.

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Dec 18, 2006 7:34:41 PM

69bossnine: Rennteam Pro; Loc: FL, USA , United States; Posts: 2028, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 27, 2005; Reply to: Puffy911

Re: MSRP discount in the US

Quote:
Puffy911 said:
My comments below are targetted only for the USA market. I do not know how the car business works in other countries.

I do not believe you will ever get a single document that reflects the cost of the vehicle to the dealership. The salesmen may believe that the cost is one thing, but the cost to the franchise (dealership) owner may be less. I have no concrete information on how PCNA (Porsche North America) runs its business with its franchise owners but I do know for a fact that other brands offer the dealership managment "refunds" based on vehicle types, where it is in the production run, etc. [I believe in the US domestic market these are known as hold-backs.] Those refunds or discounts may never trickle down the sales team. They may show you a MSRP sticker and an invoice but at the end of the day the total cost that the dealer had to wire to PCNA may be less then that.

Many people may not realize that a dealership does not necessarily own the vehicle that is sitting on their lot for sale. Rather they "rent" it by the day to sit on their lot. Renting costs money, the longer a car sits the less profit can be realized from it. A good dealership accounting department will know how long a vehicle should sit on the lot before agressive discounting may be necessary to move it, and then fill it with an identical, yet "fresh" unit.

I love the car business!

Porsche does not do "holdbacks" like most domestics. I checked into that. And over the past couple years, the domestics have increased holdbacks, and decreased the margin between "dealer invoice" and MSRP, to try and help the dealers out a bit more, meaning that getting a domestic car at Dealer Invoice + $500 isn't the protypical "great deal" that it used to be...

The dealer's in-stock liability is the "floorplan", and yes, there's an art to maintaining a floorplan that doesn't eat the dealership alive, and after awhile, things have to move... I've purchased ALOT of cars for our collection from dealers who were so far over-the-barrel on a vehicle, that they sold it to me at a considerable loss, even AFTER you factor the hold-back and factory-provided incentives like rebates to customers and/or dealers.

For instance, I bought a brand new 2004 Dodge SRT10 pickup for $38,000. The MSRP was right at $50K. The dealer had been sitting on the truck for 8 months without finding a buyer, so I beat 'em down and took it away, and they took their lumps.

Then I bought a brand-new 2005 Chevy SSR pickup for $37,500. It was loaded-up with every conceivable option, special factory paint, 6-speed, chrome wheels, the works, with a window-sticker MSRP of $51,600.00. These things just didn't sell (because they were too damned expensive and weird to-boot), and the dealer in NC sat on it until he couldn't sit any longer. Chevy, however, did have a $6000 dealer rebate in-effect to soften the blow to dealers who were stuck with these trucks on their lot, so he didn't get mowed as badly as my local Dodge dealer did.

With U.S. makers, navigating the minefield of MSRP, dealer invoice, holdback, incentives, rebates, etc.. is tricky, you've got to know your way around the industry (I've had a little practice you could say, not to mention I hold a dealer's license..

).

But Porsche is easy, cut & dry, from what delvings I did prior to negotiating my order. I've got a close friend who works for a company that deals directly with PCNA (I'm being purposefully vague, to protect the innocent). He has contacts directly within PCNA. He gave me the lowdown on the real cost basis, and it corroborated almost to the "T" with what my local dealer told me in good confidence (which is why I like my local dealer. He's small, and he's very honest).

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Dec 18, 2006 9:25:33 PM

hinckley: Junior; Loc: Boston, MA , United States; Posts: 131, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 4, 2006; Reply to: 69bossnine

Re: MSRP discount in the US

So 69bossnine, if I send you a spec, can you send me the dealer's cost?

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Dec 18, 2006 9:38:34 PM

69bossnine: Rennteam Pro; Loc: FL, USA , United States; Posts: 2028, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 27, 2005; Reply to: hinckley

Re: MSRP discount in the US

I do not want to start down that road. My friend got me my answers as a favor.... Hope you understand

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Dec 19, 2006 12:06:42 PM

hinckley: Junior; Loc: Boston, MA , United States; Posts: 131, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 4, 2006; Reply to: 69bossnine

Re: MSRP discount in the US

Quote:
69bossnine said:
I do not want to start down that road. My friend got me my answers as a favor.... Hope you understand

No problem, but I had to ask!!

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Dec 20, 2006 2:02:55 AM

Scotty A: Senior; Loc: New Jersey; Posts: 606, Gallery; Registered on: May 31, 2006; Reply to: hinckley

Re: MSRP discount in the US

$6,000 on an '07 S Cab, ordered in May 07, delivered in August, 102k list.

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