Re: Any hard objective facts comparing PCP and steel brakes
Folks-
I can see both sides of the discussion. The only thing that irritated me was some young 'whipper-snapper' saying that Colm and I were overeducated and underpaid - I founded and sold 2 companies for a large profit, I have found that as I mature, I just tend to be more careful about my money.
I also liked Frayed's input for more data (as well as his avatar - I look like Notle most of the time).
Here are some probably irrelevant data:
Porsche SuperCup and Carrea Cup 2007 GT Rules on brakes:
Brakes
The braking system may be replaced by any system from
the Porsche range and can be chosen freely within the
following parameters:
* Max. brake disc diameter 380 mm
* On the front axle, max. 6 piston brake calliper
* On the rear axle, max. 4 piston brake calliper
* Max. 2 brake pads per brake calliper
* Brake discs and rotors must be of metallic material.
* It must be a 2 circuit braking system.
There are no regulations governing brake ventilation on
the front axle.
SCO LeMans (including American Le Mans) - 2007 LM GT Rules
12.2 - Brake rotors must be made of steel
12.2.1 - Brake callipers shall be made from aluminium materials
(elasticity modulus < 80 Gpa).
12.2.2 - Only one calliper (maximum 6 pistons) per wheel is
permitted.
12.2.3 - Pistons (brake plungers) must have a round section.
12.3 - Disc brakes :
12.3.1 - Number : one brake rotor maximum per wheel.
12.3.2 - Material : ferrous exclusively.
12.3.3 - Brake pads : two per wheel maximum.
Grand Am 2007 GT Rules
SECTION 8 - BRAKES
8-1 Brake Rotors
8-1.1 Only magnetic cast iron or cast steel rotors.
8-1.2 Maximum rotor diameter:
Prep 1 - OEM diameter or as described in car specsPrep 2 - 330 mm
8-2 Brake Calipers -
8-2.1 Only one two-piece (split into two halves) brake caliper of aluminum alloy, with amaximum of four pistons and two pads per wheel is permitted. Maximumcaliperstack width is 78mm.
8-2.2 Titanium pistons are allowed in brake calipers.
8-2.3 The brake pedal must operate all four wheels through a dual master cylinder system.
8-2.4 Anti-lock/ABS brakes are prohibited on prep 2 cars. Factory installed ABS allowed on
prep 1 cars as approved.
8-2.5 Prep 1 cars may use prep 2 brakes.
---------------------------------------------------
So these series may be trying to level the playing field by miniminizing cost, or doing additional testing. Who knows? It is clear that the PCCBs are more responsive, and weigh about 50% less unsprung, but in none of the Porsche material that I have read does it say that the PCCB braking distance is shorter than the steel brake option - the Motor Trend says the PCCBs stop from 60mph in 99 feet, MotorWeek in 107 ft, and Road and Track 107 ft.. We shall see.
I think the statement that RC said makes sense - "Regarding track racing: for serious semi-professional track racing over more than a dozend of rounds, I would recommend the steel brake for cost reasons.
For street driving and casual track racing, the PCCB is much better from many points of view. Stopping distance at higher speeds, fading on hotter days, lower unsprung weight, etc. And maybe the PCCB even looks better."
Thanks for listening once again - Gerry
-------------------------------
2007 997 Turbo - Jan Build
2005 GT3 - in shop
2002 996TTX50 - gone and sorrely missed
1995 993 GT2 - driver (not owner)
1993 RSA
1992 911 Turbo S2
1980 SC- best car ever made
I can see both sides of the discussion. The only thing that irritated me was some young 'whipper-snapper' saying that Colm and I were overeducated and underpaid - I founded and sold 2 companies for a large profit, I have found that as I mature, I just tend to be more careful about my money.
I also liked Frayed's input for more data (as well as his avatar - I look like Notle most of the time).
Here are some probably irrelevant data:
Porsche SuperCup and Carrea Cup 2007 GT Rules on brakes:
Brakes
The braking system may be replaced by any system from
the Porsche range and can be chosen freely within the
following parameters:
* Max. brake disc diameter 380 mm
* On the front axle, max. 6 piston brake calliper
* On the rear axle, max. 4 piston brake calliper
* Max. 2 brake pads per brake calliper
* Brake discs and rotors must be of metallic material.
* It must be a 2 circuit braking system.
There are no regulations governing brake ventilation on
the front axle.
SCO LeMans (including American Le Mans) - 2007 LM GT Rules
12.2 - Brake rotors must be made of steel
12.2.1 - Brake callipers shall be made from aluminium materials
(elasticity modulus < 80 Gpa).
12.2.2 - Only one calliper (maximum 6 pistons) per wheel is
permitted.
12.2.3 - Pistons (brake plungers) must have a round section.
12.3 - Disc brakes :
12.3.1 - Number : one brake rotor maximum per wheel.
12.3.2 - Material : ferrous exclusively.
12.3.3 - Brake pads : two per wheel maximum.
Grand Am 2007 GT Rules
SECTION 8 - BRAKES
8-1 Brake Rotors
8-1.1 Only magnetic cast iron or cast steel rotors.
8-1.2 Maximum rotor diameter:
Prep 1 - OEM diameter or as described in car specsPrep 2 - 330 mm
8-2 Brake Calipers -
8-2.1 Only one two-piece (split into two halves) brake caliper of aluminum alloy, with amaximum of four pistons and two pads per wheel is permitted. Maximumcaliperstack width is 78mm.
8-2.2 Titanium pistons are allowed in brake calipers.
8-2.3 The brake pedal must operate all four wheels through a dual master cylinder system.
8-2.4 Anti-lock/ABS brakes are prohibited on prep 2 cars. Factory installed ABS allowed on
prep 1 cars as approved.
8-2.5 Prep 1 cars may use prep 2 brakes.
---------------------------------------------------
So these series may be trying to level the playing field by miniminizing cost, or doing additional testing. Who knows? It is clear that the PCCBs are more responsive, and weigh about 50% less unsprung, but in none of the Porsche material that I have read does it say that the PCCB braking distance is shorter than the steel brake option - the Motor Trend says the PCCBs stop from 60mph in 99 feet, MotorWeek in 107 ft, and Road and Track 107 ft.. We shall see.
I think the statement that RC said makes sense - "Regarding track racing: for serious semi-professional track racing over more than a dozend of rounds, I would recommend the steel brake for cost reasons.
For street driving and casual track racing, the PCCB is much better from many points of view. Stopping distance at higher speeds, fading on hotter days, lower unsprung weight, etc. And maybe the PCCB even looks better."
Thanks for listening once again - Gerry
-------------------------------
2007 997 Turbo - Jan Build
2005 GT3 - in shop
2002 996TTX50 - gone and sorrely missed
1995 993 GT2 - driver (not owner)
1993 RSA
1992 911 Turbo S2
1980 SC- best car ever made