Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: The latest BMW M3 photos - Page1

Dec 4, 2006 6:14:43 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59579, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: KresoF1

Re: The latest BMW M3 photos

Quote:
KresoF1 said:
Your guess(0-100km/h in 4.8s) is spot-on! Yes, it will be very good car, but will it be a true sports car?
Regarding price, around 70000Euro in Germany(base price)...

For 70000 Euro, the M3 will be a very nice and almost "cheap" addition to the sportscar world. Nobody expects the M3 to enter competition with the GT3 anymore but I'm pretty sure that the new M3 will find enough customers for this kind of money. BMW apparently also plans a limited series (well, somehow limited

) of a M3 CSL with slightly less weight (up to 30 kg are rumored) and semi-slicks as a standard option.

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Dec 4, 2006 6:24:04 PM

moto: Senior; Loc: London, UK; Posts: 608, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 8, 2005; Reply to: KresoF1

Re: The latest BMW M3 photos

I love BMW for their practicality etc but performance figures aside, can we seriously expect the same level of driving pleasure compared to a Porsche? (e.g. the moment when you turn the key of any 911....)

Anyway, I shall wait and see!!

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Dec 4, 2006 6:27:24 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59579, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: moto

Re: The latest BMW M3 photos

Quote:
moto said:
I love BMW for their practicality etc but performance figures aside, can we seriously expect the same level of driving pleasure compared to a Porsche? (e.g. the moment when you turn the key of any 911....)

Anyway, I shall wait and see!!

I came from a BMW M3 (E36), first dealer car over here in Bavaria to Porsche and never turned back. Drive feel can't be compared, a Porsche is always more direct, more involving. Still...BMW builds some very nice cars, no doubt about it. For 70000 Euro, the M3 should be a great success but looking at the current M5, I'm not sure if a "cheap" price is the key to success. I already know two guys who sold their M5 because they weren't happy with it. One is driving a Porsche 997 Carrera S now, the other one bought a used Mercedes SL65 at a very attractive price.

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Dec 4, 2006 6:32:20 PM

KresoF1: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Croatia , Croatia; Posts: 7856, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 3, 2005; Reply to: RC

Re: The latest BMW M3 photos

Belive it or not, but the main M5/M6(and future e92 M3) problem is SMGIII gearbox. Some people love it to the death, other hate it as much. I know two people with replaced SMGIII gearboxes on first 15000km. So, big number of people turns to Porsche's(manual or TIPs) or Mercedes( autobox). I guess this is the reason for BMW to introduce(you will see) new M3 as manual first. Sequential gearbox will follow around 6-8 month after the lanuch(August 2007)...

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Dec 4, 2006 6:43:22 PM

Hurst: Veteran; Loc: Potomac, MD; Posts: 1255, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 15, 2005; Reply to: KresoF1

Re: The latest BMW M3 photos

Quote:
KresoF1 said:
Belive it or not, but the main M5/M6(and future e92 M3) problem is SMGIII gearbox. Some people love it to the death, other hate it as much. I know two people with replaced SMGIII gearboxes on first 15000km. So, big number of people turns to Porsche's(manual or TIPs) or Mercedes( autobox). I guess this is the reason for BMW to introduce(you will see) new M3 as manual first. Sequential gearbox will follow around 6-8 month after the lanuch(August 2007)...

I agree. I know various mechanics at a regional BMW dealer and within weeks of the launch of the M5, various "blown" SMGIIIs came back to the dealership with angry owners.

Besides the lack of reliability, the veritable jerkiness, or compromised feeling between racing and comfort, which a lot of people think achieves neither, became a thorn in the side of the tranny and thus the car...

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Dec 4, 2006 6:46:24 PM

bostonmini: Veteran; Loc:; Posts: 924, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 31, 2003; Reply to: RC

Re: The latest BMW M3 photos

Quote:
RC said:
Quote:
KresoF1 said:
Your guess(0-100km/h in 4.8s) is spot-on! Yes, it will be very good car, but will it be a true sports car?
Regarding price, around 70000Euro in Germany(base price)...

For 70000 Euro, the M3 will be a very nice and almost "cheap" addition to the sportscar world. Nobody expects the M3 to enter competition with the GT3 anymore but I'm pretty sure that the new M3 will find enough customers for this kind of money. BMW apparently also plans a limited series (well, somehow limited ) of a M3 CSL with slightly less weight (up to 30 kg are rumored) and semi-slicks as a standard option.

RC- interesting you posted, I was thinking that the 420 HP would be more pertinent where you live, surely it will overwhelm a carrera in a straight line once wind resistance is factored in on the autobahn!

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Dec 4, 2006 7:37:41 PM

MKSGR: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany , Germany; Posts: 8098, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 17, 2002; Reply to: KresoF1

Re: The latest BMW M3 photos

Quote:
KresoF1 said:
Belive it or not, but the main M5/M6(and future e92 M3) problem is SMGIII gearbox. Some people love it to the death, other hate it as much. I know two people with replaced SMGIII gearboxes on first 15000km. So, big number of people turns to Porsche's(manual or TIPs) or Mercedes( autobox). I guess this is the reason for BMW to introduce(you will see) new M3 as manual first. Sequential gearbox will follow around 6-8 month after the lanuch(August 2007)...

If you ask me the whole M5/M6 concept is disappointing: the high-rev engine and the uncomfortable SMG combined with a sedan/GT with mediocre traction... Not quite the stuff dreams are made of. At least the price is fairly moderate

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Dec 5, 2006 10:36:00 AM

boytronic: Veteran; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 961, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 5, 2005; Reply to: bostonmini

Re: The latest BMW M3 photos

Quote:
RC- interesting you posted, I was thinking that the 420 HP would be more pertinent where you live, surely it will overwhelm a carrera in a straight line once wind resistance is factored in on the autobahn!

But will it offer a more rewarding drive than the 997S?

I think it was Top Gear who raced the M6 point to point through countryside roads and the 997 was faster...

The new M3 is bigger and heavier than the old one, and IMHO I don't think it will ever be a "true" sports car - because it was never designed as one from the beginning...

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Dec 7, 2006 10:12:02 AM

temm: Rennteam Master; Loc: Oslo , Norway; Posts: 4122, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 24, 2003; Reply to: KresoF1

Re: The latest BMW M3 photos

Quote:
KresoF1 said:
I agree with you! DSG(or S-Tronic) is much closer in character to true autobox then to manual gearbox IMHO as well. BUT, problem is that F1, e-gear, SMGIII etc. are not reliable as their respective manufactures belived. Around 15% of all F1 gearboxes in F430 was replaced during first year or so. 10% of Gallardo's e-gear as well and better not to talk about M5/M6 SMGIII. I personally know two persons with broken SMGIII. People use LC much too often on this car and simply said stress on gearbox in this mode in very big. My Audi friend told me that if I plan to have my R8 for longer period of time(say more then 4 year) then his advice is manual! Also difference on track times(Tom Kristenssen driving) was extremly marginal between R-Tronic and manual.
BMW is trying to build truly reliable sporty paddle shifter gearbox and I welcome that very much.

But do you know if they brake because the gearbox is bad or because people can't use them properly?

Here's a picture of the M3 in silver:

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Dec 7, 2006 12:55:00 PM

njw: Newbie; Loc: Taunton, UK; Posts: 15, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 3, 2004; Reply to: temm

Re: The latest BMW M3 photos

The new CSL could be interesting, but if RC is right, and its only 30kg lighter, it hardly seems worth it - you could save that on a normal M3 by only half-filling your tank each time. Here's hoping RC missed a '0' off that 30...

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Dec 7, 2006 5:17:03 PM

KresoF1: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Croatia , Croatia; Posts: 7856, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 3, 2005; Reply to: njw

Re: The latest BMW M3 photos

More info and pics from German AMS:

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/news/auto_und_produkte/erwischt_bmw_m3_m3_cabrio.134865.htm

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/news/fotoshows/erwischt_bmw_m3_m3_cabrio.134867.htm

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Dec 7, 2006 6:20:46 PM

Grant: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Denver, CO , United States; Posts: 12586, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2002; Reply to: njw

Re: The latest BMW M3 photos

Quote:
njw said:
Here's hoping RC missed a '0' off that 30...

Well, that would be stunning (660 lb diet) would make the car lighter than a Boxster - but highly unlikely...

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Dec 7, 2006 8:44:59 PM

njw: Newbie; Loc: Taunton, UK; Posts: 15, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 3, 2004; Reply to: Grant

Re: The latest BMW M3 photos

Quote:
Grant said:
Quote:
njw said:
Here's hoping RC missed a '0' off that 30...

Well, that would be stunning (660 lb diet) would make the car lighter than a Boxster - but highly unlikely...

Yes, I agree.

However, wasn't the E46 CSL around 180kg lighter then the regular M3, and I vaguely remember the early prototypes being over 200kg lighter... so 300 isn't completely off the scale. But of course all these figures put the claimed 30kg reduction into relative perspective - i.e. its a pathetic reduction

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Dec 7, 2006 8:52:25 PM

Grant: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Denver, CO , United States; Posts: 12586, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2002; Reply to: njw

Re: The latest BMW M3 photos

Quote:
njw said:But of course all these figures put the claimed 30kg reduction into relative perspective - i.e. its a pathetic reduction

Well, the 997GT3RS only reduces weight by 20kg over the GT3, while we're on the subject

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Dec 7, 2006 10:58:42 PM

Hurst: Veteran; Loc: Potomac, MD; Posts: 1255, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 15, 2005; Reply to: njw

Re: The latest BMW M3 photos

Quote:
njw said:
Quote:
Grant said:
Quote:
njw said:
Here's hoping RC missed a '0' off that 30...

Well, that would be stunning (660 lb diet) would make the car lighter than a Boxster - but highly unlikely...

Yes, I agree.

However, wasn't the E46 CSL around 180kg lighter then the regular M3, and I vaguely remember the early prototypes being over 200kg lighter... so 300 isn't completely off the scale. But of course all these figures put the claimed 30kg reduction into relative perspective - i.e. its a pathetic reduction

In my opinion, those days are over. Revamping the entire structure of the car for a weight-reduction model will strip it of its inherient safety structures and would be exceedingly expensive. I wouldn't be surprised if it was a mere 30kg. Nothing to write home about (like the 997GT3RS)

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Dec 7, 2006 11:28:48 PM

Ferdie: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Europe , Germany; Posts: 8234, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 2, 2004; Reply to: Hurst

Re: The latest BMW M3 photos

Quote:
Hurst said:
Quote:
njw said:
...wasn't the E46 CSL around 180kg lighter then the regular M3, and I vaguely remember the early prototypes being over 200kg lighter... so 300 isn't completely off the scale. But of course all these figures put the claimed 30kg reduction into relative perspective - i.e. its a pathetic reduction

In my opinion, those days are over. Revamping the entire structure of the car for a weight-reduction model will strip it of its inherient safety structures and would be exceedingly expensive. I wouldn't be surprised if it was a mere 30kg. Nothing to write home about (like the 997GT3RS)

There is a huge difference about weight reduction comparing the M3 and the GT3 variants. The later is already a very track-oriented car with electrical seats, full leather etc. missing in the first place (although you can order them nowadays). The M3 is a. derived from a high-volume production model, b. rather in line with the Carrera 2 / 4 / S and c. the price difference between std. and CSL model quite significant. I am not intending to justify Porsche's pricetag but modified suspension, equipment & components don't come for free at other companies as well.

Although Porsche would be able to reduce prices due to higher production numbers the effort e. g. Manthey Motors has to take to develop and fabricate a weight-saving sport exhaust tells a story.

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Dec 8, 2006 11:28:46 AM

temm: Rennteam Master; Loc: Oslo , Norway; Posts: 4122, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 24, 2003; Reply to: KresoF1

Re: The latest BMW M3 photos

Quote:
KresoF1 said:
More info and pics from German AMS:

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/news/auto_und_produkte/erwischt_bmw_m3_m3_cabrio.134865.htm

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/news/fotoshows/erwischt_bmw_m3_m3_cabrio.134867.htm

In english with larger pictures:
http://www.worldcarfans.com/spyphotos.cf...upe-undisguised

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Dec 8, 2006 12:43:18 PM

KresoF1: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Croatia , Croatia; Posts: 7856, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 3, 2005; Reply to: temm

Re: The latest BMW M3 photos

Official M3 intro Geneva 2007. Sales from June 2007.

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Dec 8, 2006 1:17:17 PM

temm: Rennteam Master; Loc: Oslo , Norway; Posts: 4122, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 24, 2003; Reply to: KresoF1

Re: The latest BMW M3 photos

Quote:
KresoF1 said:
Official M3 intro Geneva 2007. Sales from June 2007.

Good to have you back Kreso

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Dec 8, 2006 1:43:34 PM

dhayek: Rennteam Master; Loc: Beirut , Lebanon; Posts: 3839, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 7, 2004; Reply to: temm

Re: The latest BMW M3 photos

i think it look okay ... and i am a big fan of the smg gearboxes.. i tried to break an m3 smg2 gearbox for 30000km without sucess... if i did the same with my 360 f1 it would have lasted 10 km..

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Dec 8, 2006 1:56:21 PM

thuggy: Veteran; Loc: PA & CA , United States; Posts: 834, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 22, 2006; Reply to: dhayek

Re: The latest BMW M3 photos

I was worried about how the new M3 would turn out but its looking pretty good in contrast to some of BMWs other latest offerings.

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Dec 9, 2006 9:01:08 AM

andrea: Rennteam Master; Loc: Italy, Pordenone , Italy; Posts: 3569, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 24, 2003; Reply to: KresoF1

Re: The latest BMW M3 photos

Quote:
KresoF1 said:
Official M3 intro Geneva 2007. Sales from June 2007.

good News!

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Dec 15, 2006 10:45:30 AM

temm: Rennteam Master; Loc: Oslo , Norway; Posts: 4122, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 24, 2003; Reply to: KresoF1

Re: The latest BMW M3 photos

Quote:
KresoF1 said:
Official M3 intro Geneva 2007. Sales from June 2007.

Kreso, do you know when the M3 pressrelase is due?

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Dec 15, 2006 10:49:33 AM

Just_me: Co-Pilot; Loc: EU; Posts: 170, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 16, 2004; Reply to: temm

Re: The latest BMW M3 photos

A concept version will be shown in geneva and the final version in frankfurt

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Dec 15, 2006 11:13:51 AM

elsiesvg: Junior; Loc: France , France; Posts: 129, Gallery; Registered on: May 5, 2004; Reply to: dhayek

Re: The latest BMW M3 photos

Quote:
dhayek said:
i think it look okay ... and i am a big fan of the smg gearboxes.. i tried to break an m3 smg2 gearbox for 30000km without sucess... if i did the same with my 360 f1 it would have lasted 10 km..

I love the "F1" "smg" concept in general. They are great to drive (have tried both F1 and SMGII) and I find they enhance the whole sports car experience. The problem is that they are great to drive when you're using the car like a sportscar, i.e. gunning it on a twisty road or on a track. But in "normal" use, traffic or standard motorway driving, they are not that useful and tend to be both pricey (clutch replacements) and unreliable.

IMO, that is where the greatest breadth of development must be done. And as I understand it, that's exactly why Porsche is taking so long to bring the PDK out. It needs to do more than just work. Like any other Porsche product, it needs to be useable everyday.

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Dec 15, 2006 12:33:51 PM

KresoF1: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Croatia , Croatia; Posts: 7856, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 3, 2005; Reply to: temm

Re: The latest BMW M3 photos

Tim,
Most EU dealers will have full info week or two before Geneva. But, we could see some sort of preview in one of the Germans mags(hint-AMS)...
Performance wise new M3(e92) will be at Audi RS4 level, more or less.
Price will be very good but, I would like to see final specs and options before even considering it for myself.
Are you thinking about new M3 for yourself?

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