Crown

Whoopsy:

Interesting numbers rom McLaren's sales figures.

$843.6mil in sales for 2016, $11.9mil in profit, moving 3286 cars.

That means an avg selling price per car at just under $257k and profit per car at just over $3600.

 

Their pricing is kind of aggressive for the technology they offer. The numbers show how hard it is to penetrate this segment of the market. McLaren needs to "buy" customers from Porsche and Ferrari. That is always expensive and also takes a long breath...

MKSGR:

huangester:

tested the 720 last week, and compared to already super fast 650:

1)720S is a bit faster.

2) gunning into corner speed; similar, if only slightly better perhaps, but tires are not better, need to replace it with cup2 or corsa

3) more confortable and soft on the soft mode

4) a lot stiffer on the track mode; are not able to try this mode with twisties, so dont' know if its better.

5) sound is still the same, if better only slightly better, but still a turbo charged muted sound.  

overall, a more livable car, taking on the task of GT, but still a super series.  I must say a package better than 911 can offer without the two seats which I never use at the back.   if they could only have the 911 GT3RS sound, it would just be THE PERFECT car for me.

For a current 650S owner to change, with big depreciation, if we only looking at the improved figures, doesn't convinced me, but the exterior look is the KEY to wave off the thought of depreciation....  the only selling point to me for this car is really the look and the new interior.   so for those who wanted to buy 720, I would suggest 650S if you don't mind the old look of the car....

Doesn't the 720s feel much more refined than the 650s (automatic mode of the gearbox, precision of suspension in comfort mode, other details)? How did you like the navigation, sound system etc. I will do the test drive in about 2 weeks. I am very excited but hoping for the aforementioned things...

exactly - in Terms of driving excitment the 650 is already on top of the sportscar segment so no surprise - but interiorwise and surround view , Navigation & design is clearly a step up.

unfortunately we don't have navi set up properly here in Taiwan, and we don't have much time to play around with, but the graphics are much better, and that's all I can say from the IRIS.....    The interior is a huge step up that is for sure.  The openness of the driving view makes me feel more confident and "relaxed" at all time.  

The only thing I don't understand about 720S is why did they use P0 as standard....  they should have used Corsa as standard for this car, as it does not match with the performance it gives.... perhaps that's why I don't feel that much of differences between 650 and 720.  Tires does play in a big role.  

as for the reduced front break caliper size which reduced the weight; don't feel it.  Suppose short test drive can not give that much information......  but the breaking power is certainly not reducing. 

the only big selling point is its exterior look, and interior redesign.  The car's performances is already too much for most of the people's use.....  if u are buying it for its performance, just get the 650S, for better deals and similar performances.  

Whoopsy:

Interesting numbers rom McLaren's sales figures.

$843.6mil in sales for 2016, $11.9mil in profit, moving 3286 cars.

That means an avg selling price per car at just under $257k and profit per car at just over $3600.

 

Not looking good in my opinion. Now we know why McLaren is that competitive but for how long can they do this? 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

MKSGR:

Whoopsy:

Interesting numbers rom McLaren's sales figures.

$843.6mil in sales for 2016, $11.9mil in profit, moving 3286 cars.

That means an avg selling price per car at just under $257k and profit per car at just over $3600.

 

Their pricing is kind of aggressive for the technology they offer. The numbers show how hard it is to penetrate this segment of the market. McLaren needs to "buy" customers from Porsche and Ferrari. That is always expensive and also takes a long breath...

Yes, it is aggressive but c'mon, if Porsche would try hard, they could offer the same tech for a little bit more than they are charging now for their top models. Only problem is: Porsche cares more about profits than customers.  I get it, it is not their fault, they have shareholders and internal guidelines on how much profit they need to make on a car but McLaren is putting Porsche to shame lately and this kind of upsets me. Porsche is such a great company, why don't they pick up the fight and show McLaren what they're capable of, even at the risk of making less profit with one or two models? There is certainly an issue here I cannot understand. The new GT2 RS is certainly not the answer to the 720.

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

If Mclaren would be producing & selling equally amount of  cars as Porsche - they would make the same profits - but nobody CAN sell that much in their bracket.....very simple. Nor can Audi with their "ueber" product R8

BjoernB:

If Mclaren would be producing & selling equally amount of  cars as Porsche - they would make the same profits - but nobody CAN sell that much in their bracket.....very simple. Nor can Audi with their "ueber" product R8

You have a point but this makes Porsche look even worse... 

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

KresoF1:

Markus,

Drove recently again 991.2 Turbo S and was impressed as much as possible. Do you have Plus steering wheel?

Even though your question is not directed to me and this is the McLaren forum, I will add my input as someone who had a 991.1 TTS coupe with Plus steering, then a cabriolet without it and now a 991.2 TTS coupe with Plus. The 991.2 is so much better than the 991.1 that it was worth the upgrade. The calibration of everything is so, so much better. The minimized turbo lag, the more precise work of the gearbox and it's clutches and the perfect steering are especially noticeable. IMHO the Plus steering is a must. To me it even feels more precise than the standard one, my benchmark being the GT3 RS which of course is a scalpel. With the blue/crayon interior, the glass sunroof, adaptive cruise control and the Burmester my TTS really does it all. Great, luxurious daily driver, comfortable cruiser, a weapon on a twisty road, hard to follow with the GT3 RS or the 488 (traction). 

The only big and major complain remains the sound. Such a disappointment, especially after the two other mentioned cars. At least switching to a fully electric drive in the future wouldn't be a problem sound wise.

As for the 720S I got a production week in October and it will be an interesting comparison. Not once I felt that the 488 could use more power. +50 hp and less weight sounds crazy...

Whoopsy:

Interesting numbers rom McLaren's sales figures.

$843.6mil in sales for 2016, $11.9mil in profit, moving 3286 cars.

That means an avg selling price per car at just under $257k and profit per car at just over $3600.

 

These sound like gross numbers which means in truth, McLaren is losing quite a bit of money in exchange for gaining market share.  True?

Herbaliser:

KresoF1:

Markus,

Drove recently again 991.2 Turbo S and was impressed as much as possible. Do you have Plus steering wheel?

Even though your question is not directed to me and this is the McLaren forum, I will add my input as someone who had a 991.1 TTS coupe with Plus steering, then a cabriolet without it and now a 991.2 TTS coupe with Plus. The 991.2 is so much better than the 991.1 that it was worth the upgrade. The calibration of everything is so, so much better. The minimized turbo lag, the more precise work of the gearbox and it's clutches and the perfect steering are especially noticeable. IMHO the Plus steering is a must. To me it even feels more precise than the standard one, my benchmark being the GT3 RS which of course is a scalpel. With the blue/crayon interior, the glass sunroof, adaptive cruise control and the Burmester my TTS really does it all. Great, luxurious daily driver, comfortable cruiser, a weapon on a twisty road, hard to follow with the GT3 RS or the 488 (traction). 

The only big and major complain remains the sound. Such a disappointment, especially after the two other mentioned cars. At least switching to a fully electric drive in the future wouldn't be a problem sound wise.

As for the 720S I got a production week in October and it will be an interesting comparison. Not once I felt that the 488 could use more power. +50 hp and less weight sounds crazy...

 

Thanks for your input.

I drove the car with Power steering Plus. It was very, very good indeed. Also, Plus is standard on Exclusive series which means something.

Herbaliser:

KresoF1:

Markus,

Drove recently again 991.2 Turbo S and was impressed as much as possible. Do you have Plus steering wheel?

Even though your question is not directed to me and this is the McLaren forum, I will add my input as someone who had a 991.1 TTS coupe with Plus steering, then a cabriolet without it and now a 991.2 TTS coupe with Plus. The 991.2 is so much better than the 991.1 that it was worth the upgrade. The calibration of everything is so, so much better. The minimized turbo lag, the more precise work of the gearbox and it's clutches and the perfect steering are especially noticeable. IMHO the Plus steering is a must. To me it even feels more precise than the standard one, my benchmark being the GT3 RS which of course is a scalpel. With the blue/crayon interior, the glass sunroof, adaptive cruise control and the Burmester my TTS really does it all. Great, luxurious daily driver, comfortable cruiser, a weapon on a twisty road, hard to follow with the GT3 RS or the 488 (traction). 

The only big and major complain remains the sound. Such a disappointment, especially after the two other mentioned cars. At least switching to a fully electric drive in the future wouldn't be a problem sound wise.

As for the 720S I got a production week in October and it will be an interesting comparison. Not once I felt that the 488 could use more power. +50 hp and less weight sounds crazy...

 

Great short review 

vantagesc:

Whoopsy:

Interesting numbers rom McLaren's sales figures.

$843.6mil in sales for 2016, $11.9mil in profit, moving 3286 cars.

That means an avg selling price per car at just under $257k and profit per car at just over $3600.

 

 

These sound like gross numbers which means in truth, McLaren is losing quite a bit of money in exchange for gaining market share.  True?

$11.9M is the pre-tax profit, not gross profit.  Operating profit was $85M on $844M in revenue - so about 10% operating margin.  This is about half of the operating margin Ferrari currently earns, but considering Ferrari has greater scale, and a longer operating history, I'd say McLaren is doing very well financially.  Remember, there are high fixed costs in this business so as McLaren scales its production numbers that margin will grow...

Porsche should be very very very afraid if McLaren decides to do a 4 seater and even more if a convertible one...

That will not happened. There are few very important limits of CF tub that Mclaren is using. Imagine true 4 seated with doors a la Mclaren...

KresoF1:

That will not happened. There are few very important limits of CF tub that Mclaren is using. Imagine true 4 seated with doors a la Mclaren...

The rear-wing doors could be attached to the front-wing doors. Just imagine how this would look like 

Why couldn't they just extend the tub?

noone1:

Why couldn't they just extend the tub?

Were would the engine go? keep it in the rear and have a 4 seated "rear"engined car based on a two seated mid-engine? not going to work... move it to the front? then you need a whole new chasis from the bottom up, and wouldn't be CF anymore for a front engine 4 seater...

⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

Wait. Why can't you just extend the tub and modify the front of it to accommodate an engine? Obviously they couldn't just use it exactly as is now.

noone1:

Wait. Why can't you just extend the tub and modify the front of it to accommodate an engine? Obviously they couldn't just use it exactly as is now.

But to add even two small 911 type seats would change the chasis completely, you would have to start from scratch, just like the Boxster and 911 do not share the chasis, and last time someone tried a mid-engine 2+2 was the Ferrari Mondial if I recall correctly and that didn't work out well. And a 2+2 rear engine is a completely different platform, since you have to move the engine behind the axle, and only Porsche has been successful at that setup after decades of evolution.  I think you are thinking of how it is with a front engine car, then it would be a different story.

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⇒ Carlos - Porsche 991 Carrera GTS

My i8 is carbon tub and a 4 seater like my 991. Prob more space in the i8. 

Tesla Model S P100D & Model X P90D & 2016 BMW i8 & 2014 991 TTS Cab - Sept 991.2 GT3 ordered. 2017 Porsche Mission E on order

EnglishManInNY:

My i8 is carbon tub and a 4 seater like my 991. Prob more space in the i8. 

The i8 tub was designed as a 2+2 from the grounds up, the 12C was never designed to be a 2+2, McLaren needed to engineer a brand new tub.

I'm pretty sure designing a new tub would be trivial. Whether it's cost effective or not is another story.

noone1:

I'm pretty sure designing a new tub would be trivial. Whether it's cost effective or not is another story.

It's not. All new design that has to be crash test and certified again.

It's not like a simply modification like dropping the side sill only and still called it a 'brand new' tub.

I am sure mclaren have this covered. Soon

my gt3 needs a mclaren marriage 

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Tesla Model S P100D & Model X P90D & 2016 BMW i8 & 2014 991 TTS Cab - Sept 991.2 GT3 ordered. 2017 Porsche Mission E on order

Btw the i8 is my wife's car and I love that thing. So cool.  She's loves it too much

Tesla Model S P100D & Model X P90D & 2016 BMW i8 & 2014 991 TTS Cab - Sept 991.2 GT3 ordered. 2017 Porsche Mission E on order

Hopefully, Sportauto can do the 720s Supertest soon... I am so excited about the performance of the new McLaren...

So, yeah, the 720S seems pretty quick, to say the least...

Top Gear test

0-10mph: 0.46s 
0-20mph: 0.96s 
0-30mph: 1.40s 
0-40mph: 1.82s 
0-50mph: 2.30s 
0-60mph: 2.77s 
0-70mph: 3.33s 
0-80mph: 3.93s 
0-90mph: 4.59s 
0-100mph: 5.31s 
0-110mph: 6.14s 
0-120mph: 7.06s 
0-130mph: 8.16s 
0-140mph: 9.38s 
0-150mph: 11.01s 

¼ mile 10.19secs @ 146.0mph

Pretty much what McLaren claimed and probably faster than GT2 RS (straight line).

RC (Germany) - Rennteam Editor Porsche 991 Carrera 4 GTS Cabriolet (2015), Porsche Cayenne S Diesel (2017), Audi R8 V10 Plus (2016), Mini JCW (2015)

RC:

Pretty much what McLaren claimed and probably faster than GT2 RS (straight line).

Until someone get their hands on a GT2RS and test it out.

When is the last time real world testing not beating Porsche's published estimate? Under promise over delivery, unlike other car makers which do it the other way around. *cough* McLaren *cough* Ron Dennis *cough*

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$100 says it beats the gt2 RS in a straight line. Giant wing isn't exactly drag free.