Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Problem after problems - Page1

Nov 27, 2006 11:12:29 AM

Ronnie: Co-Pilot; Loc: good old England (sometimes Hong Kong); Posts: 206, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 13, 2005

Problem after problems

If you had these problems with a brand new 997C2S, how would you feel? What would you do? Does this list read similar in length to your experiences?

10 Feb 05 Car in for rattles to be fixed
04 May 05 Car in for more rattles to be fixed
04 May 05 Sunroof creaking issues
26 Sep 05 Full engine oil change
05 Oct 05 Hand Brake mechanism issues & clutch squeaking
05 Oct 05 Sunroof creaking issues again
05 Oct 05 Recall - Front boot lid
27 Oct 05 Hand Brake replaced
10 Jan 06 Clutch cable replaced
10 Jan 06 Workshop Campaign - gearbox mechanism. On board clock issues.
08 Apr 06 Driver side door seal replaced
08 Apr 06 Recall - Tailpipes replaced
08 Apr 06 RMS
08 Apr 06 PCM replaced - CD drive jam
17 May 06 Exhaust pipe bracket crack replaced
17 May 06 Clutch replaced
15 Aug 06 Software upgrade for slow clock
25 Nov 06 Engine now needs at best a rebuild, otherwise a full replacement (12,049 miles)
25 Nov 06 Rusting wheel nuts
25 Nov 06 Boot light failure
25 Nov 06 Clutch squeaking revisited

Some of them are more trivial than others I know, rattles are luck of the draw, some people get them, others don't. However, some are major (new clutch, new PCM, RMS, engine rebuild / new engine, etc) but all issues, however minor require unnecessary stress and inconvenience of getting the car to the nearest dealership which for me is a 70 mile round trip. By the time I've driven there, waited to be served, gotten home / back to the office, this is wasting at least 2 hours of my working day each time to drop off the car and then again, when I pick up the car. Now without wanting to sound egotistical, and wanting to say my time is more valuable than anyone elses, I will only say that I wouldn't be able to buy a 911 if my time is free.

Am I being unreasonable in expecting a better car with less reliability issues? My OPC has implied that its somehow my fault for using my manual car in town for the clutch issues. All of this is really spoiling the whole Porsche owning experience.

Next
Threads

Nov 27, 2006 11:33:40 AM

Alex_997TT: Rennteam Master; Loc: Reading , United Kingdom; Posts: 3320, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 20, 2005; Reply to: Ronnie

Re: Problem after problems

Hey Ronnie, really sorry to read your list of woes.

I myself (06-2005 model) have had only a few rattles here and there, along with the standard recalls. I did have a few issues after my PSE install but after these were fixed it's been as good as gold.

I guess your car was one of the first 997s off of the production line yes? What has prompted the engine rebuild/replace though? Ongoing RMS issues perhaps? Given you've only done 12k miles in nearly 2 years I don't see how Porsche can claim 'over-use' of ANY components. So the clutch suggestions are simply insane.

I hear what you are saying about your time being money. I myself strangely enjoy popping down to my local OPC, to see all the cars (Turbo/C GT/GT3/GT3 RS models out the back). But I am only 5 mins drive away and my time is a bit more flexible than most given I typically work from home. I am wondering whether you could request a pickup of the car in future? My OPC tends to bend over backwards to accommodate any inconveniences I may come up against.

If I were you though, I would use all these issues to see if you can get a good trade-in price for a Turbo or a GT3

Next
Threads

Nov 27, 2006 12:17:00 PM

wtsnet: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Bath, UK; Posts: 2430, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 19, 2004; Reply to: Alex_997TT

Re: Problem after problems

Which dealer?

I can sympathise. Time is money, especially so for many Porsche customers, and the distance, limited tech availablilty at weekends, and reluctance to give loan cars for a week compounds actually getting any faults rectified.

I've been trying to get mine sorted for over a year, but haven't been able to dedicate the necessary week-off that it'll take to do so!

Next
Threads

Nov 27, 2006 12:23:20 PM

Oxonian: Pilot; Loc: Jeddah, Saudi Arabia; Posts: 488, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 28, 2005; Reply to: wtsnet

Re: Problem after problems

Ronnie: I'm sorry for what you're going through, but it seems that you've got a lemon. Suggest to replace it with another 911 (GT3 if you can spare the back seats). Good luck.

Next
Threads

Nov 27, 2006 12:38:06 PM

ISUK: Rennteam Master; Loc: UK , United Kingdom; Posts: 4206, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: Oxonian

Re: Problem after problems

With a list like that I'd get in touch with Porsche GB at Reading and insist on speaking to someone senior in customer services. It sounds like you have a problem car and your list of return vistits to your dealer shows a high l;evel of patience on your part. I'd be looking for a fair and equitable resolution of the problems with Porsche GB. I'd open up with the suggestion that the car is given a full "health check" by another OPC with a regional field engineer from Porsche present and able to sign it off as meeting Porsche's standards upon satisfactory conclusion of the check. If they agree to this and you have further problems it will give you a lot more power to take things to the next level as you will have given them a fair opportunity to assess the car and put things right. If they cannot get the car fixed to your satisfaction then I'd look to agree to either replace it with a new car - with a suitable adjustment for depreciation and a financial gesture of goodwill from then towards the new car to compensate you for your time and inconvenience - or replace it at minimal or no cost with a car of similar specification/mileage/age etc from their approved used car stock if this was acceptable to you.

Good luck in whatever you decide.

Next
Threads

Nov 27, 2006 1:20:29 PM

Marwan Arakji: Senior; Loc: Lebanon , Lebanon; Posts: 572, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 11, 2006; Reply to: ISUK

Re: Problem after problems

I think what you have suffered so far can no longer be compensated by simply fixing things on your factory warranty... I would request a trade-in for a similar car, but with only a loss of 10% depreciation on your older car, instead of the usual 20%-25% on a 2 year old carrera... anything less, and I would pursue the dealer legally...

Next
Threads

Nov 27, 2006 1:48:28 PM

Gaz: Co-Pilot; Loc: London, England; Posts: 246, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 4, 2004; Reply to: Ronnie

Re: Problem after problems

This sounds like a complete nightmare Ron. I took delivery of my C2S in Dec'04, so I guess it's of a similar age to yours and to be honest, despite a few problems, thankfully I've been relatively happy (10k miles). I did of course have a one-off PASM failure glitch, and had the problem with the ignition key getting stuck (caused by the tiptronic gate) and both were fixed under warranty by PCEL. I did find out a fortnight ago about the exhaust recall however, and mine's hopefully going in shortly for that repair.

Stories like yours make me more confident that extending my warranty was the right thing to do. Then again, the cost of an additional year's cover is really borderline now (Pounds895). At least it includes Europe-wide roadside assistance.

Gaz

Next
Threads

Nov 27, 2006 1:52:40 PM

RR4: Senior; Loc:; Posts: 608, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 7, 2003; Reply to: Gaz

Re: Problem after problems

I've heard a few mechanics say that the 997, like the Cayenne have, by far, more serious issues with them than the 996 did.

Next
Threads

Nov 27, 2006 2:17:54 PM

ScottL: Junior; Loc: United Kingdom; Posts: 135, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 26, 2005; Reply to: Ronnie

Re: Problem after problems

Really sorry to hear of your problems Ronnie.

I think it's safe to say that your experiences are not the norm and I would be very surprised if Porsche GB don't agree.

ISUK's advice is spot on. Keep your cool. Tell them the full extent of the problems you've had. Ask them to propose a remedy.

Let us know how you get on.

Next
Threads

Nov 27, 2006 3:45:52 PM

Ronnie: Co-Pilot; Loc: good old England (sometimes Hong Kong); Posts: 206, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 13, 2005; Reply to: ScottL

Re: Problem after problems

I fear that having made the initial post, I am now exposed to pouring out more on the Internet. Oh dear.

Alex, don't get me wrong, I love looking at all Porsche centres, especially when they have something a little bit more exotic in. However, there is a big difference between going of your own free will when you feel like you have the spare time, and having to go in because you are aware that your car manufacturers warranty is going to run out soon and that there are big outstanding issues that are nagging at the back of your mind. Before anyone says I can always extend the warranty, as my dealership pointed out to me recently, "not everything is covered in the extended warranty". Only major issues are covered and issues such as my clutch, despite demonstrating the annoying squeaking / grinding issues at 4411 miles, could be termed as wear and tear items in the future.

Take this week gone for example. I've already had the car set up for an oil consumption test in October because of a number of problems so the dealership needs data to try and diagnose the problems more fully; fair enough. This does mean that I have in the back of my mind that I need to keep an eye on my mileage and then get the car to the dealership soon. On Thursday, my wife (33 / 34 weeks pregnant) has to go in for an emergency scan due to an umbilical artery Doppler issue with the baby. On top of this I have to juggle in business in Manchester, London, and Bristol, I live in Cheltenham. Then there's the embarrassment with my dad, who told me not to waste my money in the first place. This just fans the flames, but maybe I should save that for future therapy sessions and not here. Bottomline is I really, really wish my car just worked and I didn't have to deal with the hassles of it not.

wtsnet, I hear what you're saying about loan cars. My car is currently with my dealership for a full engine strip down and this is the first time I've ever been given another 911, albeit a non-S Carrera, as a replacement. In the past I've requested a 911, but always had BMW 3 series compacts, V6 Cayennes, or base model Boxsters as loan cars. Nothing hugely wrong with these cars, but when I purchased my car, I gave them a bankers draft for the full outstanding amount. However when it comes to my car being faulty, then I get given something that is simply not as good. Can you imagine if when it came to paying and you just handed over say Pounds30k instead of Pounds70k? I don't think that would be acceptable.

I think I'll await some feedback from my dealership to see what exactly is wrong with my car this time, and then I will contact Porsche GB. I just wanted to gauge valued opinion on here and rennlist first to see what people thought as well. Thanks to all for the comments, they are much appreciated.

Regards,

Ronnie

Next
Threads

Nov 27, 2006 5:28:04 PM

maryokaan: Junior; Loc: istanbul turkey; Posts: 136, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 12, 2005; Reply to: Ronnie

Re: Problem after problems

hey ronnie ,

here are similar issues from me. i believe our cars are sisters...
pdi 2005 feb

Car in for rattles to be temporarly fix
Car in for more rattles to be fixed
Sunroof creaking issues
Clutch creaking noise from the first day on...
Passanger door seal replaced (water leak...)
PCM replaced - CD drive jam
Navigation dvd rom change to fix slow clock problem....
Rusting wheel nuts
negligible oil sweat from the gearbox
..................
now 26000km on the odo. but to tell you the truth none of the above mentioned problems are unacceptable for me,only if the dealer keeps his concern..
I hope i won`t face the engine replacement issue...(that i would call a real problem)
good luck to you ronnie...

Quote:
Ronnie said:
If you had these problems with a brand new 997C2S, how would you feel? What would you do? Does this list read similar in length to your experiences?

10 Feb 05 Car in for rattles to be fixed
04 May 05 Car in for more rattles to be fixed
04 May 05 Sunroof creaking issues
26 Sep 05 Full engine oil change
05 Oct 05 Hand Brake mechanism issues & clutch squeaking
05 Oct 05 Sunroof creaking issues again
05 Oct 05 Recall - Front boot lid
27 Oct 05 Hand Brake replaced
10 Jan 06 Clutch cable replaced
10 Jan 06 Workshop Campaign - gearbox mechanism. On board clock issues.
08 Apr 06 Driver side door seal replaced
08 Apr 06 Recall - Tailpipes replaced
08 Apr 06 RMS
08 Apr 06 PCM replaced - CD drive jam
17 May 06 Exhaust pipe bracket crack replaced
17 May 06 Clutch replaced
15 Aug 06 Software upgrade for slow clock
25 Nov 06 Engine now needs at best a rebuild, otherwise a full replacement (12,049 miles)
25 Nov 06 Rusting wheel nuts
25 Nov 06 Boot light failure
25 Nov 06 Clutch squeaking revisited

Some of them are more trivial than others I know, rattles are luck of the draw, some people get them, others don't. However, some are major (new clutch, new PCM, RMS, engine rebuild / new engine, etc) but all issues, however minor require unnecessary stress and inconvenience of getting the car to the nearest dealership which for me is a 70 mile round trip. By the time I've driven there, waited to be served, gotten home / back to the office, this is wasting at least 2 hours of my working day each time to drop off the car and then again, when I pick up the car. Now without wanting to sound egotistical, and wanting to say my time is more valuable than anyone elses, I will only say that I wouldn't be able to buy a 911 if my time is free.

Am I being unreasonable in expecting a better car with less reliability issues? My OPC has implied that its somehow my fault for using my manual car in town for the clutch issues. All of this is really spoiling the whole Porsche owning experience.

Next
Threads

Nov 28, 2006 3:19:07 PM

Porschist: Newbie; Loc: Europe; Posts: 16, Gallery; Registered on: May 16, 2005; Reply to: maryokaan

Re: Problem after problems

I called Porsche Assistance when my June 997 Turbo broke down on the motorway. Guess what they made sure was awating me; a non S Carrera? A Cayenne? A Boxter? No.
They referred me to Hertz, who offered me a dirty, smelly c class diesel that had not been washed since it was made. I said no thanks.
One week has gone by and still a) the new engine hasn't arrived to the dealer for installation b)nobody from Porsche customer service has bothered to give me a call to say "sorry you are going through this" and maybe "here's the key to another Porsche in the meantime". Note that as far as they know I am driving the 50k miles smelly hertz, as happy as a clam that I got an opportunity to give them a check 160k Euros so that I could be part of their engine research program.
Way to go Porsche!

Next
Threads

Nov 28, 2006 4:59:46 PM

ResB: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Yorkshire, where roads are twisty... , United Kingdom; Posts: 2858, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 19, 2006; Reply to: Porschist

Re: Problem after problems

I got a 1 ltr Micra when mine was out of commission. It stank to high heaven also.

Next
Threads

Nov 28, 2006 7:44:10 PM

STRADALE: Rennteam VIP; Loc: NY , United States; Posts: 11075, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 9, 2005; Reply to: Ronnie

Re: Problem after problems

No way you should have that amount of problems. The only thing I could suggest in the future - Don't bring the car in seperately every time you hear a squeak or rattle. Not always but Porsche's do tend to have some type of squeak so wait until you have to bring the car in for service/oil change and get it taken care of together. If it's your first Porsche it's really hard to do because it can seem really annoying but after a couple of cars you get focused more on the driving thrill and less on the nitty gritty. Plus it just racks up the # of visits that get shown on a Car Fax effecting resale value. Or don't get a first model year car especially an early version. But geez your car shouldn't all these issues.

ps: Doubt highly it was your fault. Driving a manual in town shouldn't ever be a problem. Sometimes I spend 2 hours a day in bumper to bumper traffic w/ my 997 stick and haven't had a problem.

Next
Threads

Nov 28, 2006 11:43:53 PM

rhino: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Island , Saint Lucia; Posts: 2877, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 26, 2006; Reply to: STRADALE

Re: Problem after problems

Wow sorry to hear that Ronnie. I have had my cab for 6 months (8500 miles) now with no issues or annoying rattles and it's six speed with alot of heavy traffic. If my first Pcar had that many issues I would be extremely disapointed

Next
Threads

Nov 29, 2006 12:03:56 AM

JasonF: Junior; Loc: New Jersey; Posts: 114, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 13, 2004; Reply to: rhino

Re: Problem after problems

Ronnie,

I have given up taking my car to the dealership to address rattles. My car has also been quite unreliable, and I do plan on not getting another 911 when my lease expires in a year. Not only does Porsche need to address serious quality control issues, but they really need to step up in the horsepower department as well. I know Porsche has a long history of not being a hp leader, but providing a total package of power and handling. However, many cars costing much less can really give a base Carrera a run for its money. The BMW 335 comes to mind.

Next
Threads

Nov 29, 2006 1:44:13 AM

bstew: Expert; Loc: NC, USA; Posts: 1797, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 11, 2005; Reply to: Ronnie

Re: Problem after problems

Sorry to hear about these problems with your car. I would sell and move on. To me no car is worth this many problems but this is just me. Like I always say cars are made by man and man is not perfect. One would think you could get better quality for 80K+ US.

Next
Threads

Nov 30, 2006 10:47:31 PM

Ronnie: Co-Pilot; Loc: good old England (sometimes Hong Kong); Posts: 206, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 13, 2005; Reply to: bstew

Re: Problem after problems

Thanks for your comments and opinions guys (and gals?). I do really appreciate them.

How do I remove this thread? It won't let me delete or edit???

Top
Threads

Board	Subject	Last post	Views	Replies
Porsche	SUN'S LAST RUN TO WILSON, WY - 991 C2S CAB LIFE, END OF AN ERA (Part II)	5/15/24 8:44 AM art.italy	811731	1808
Porsche	Welcome to Rennteam: Cars and Coffee... (photos)	4/7/24 11:48 AM Boxster Coupe GTS	451602	565
Porsche	OFFICIAL: Porsche 911 (992) GT3 RS - 2022	3/12/24 8:28 AM DJM48	270289	323
Porsche	The new Macan: the first all-electric SUV from Porsche	1/30/24 9:18 AM RC	91673	45
Porsche	OFFICIAL: Taycan 2024 Facelift	3/15/24 1:23 PM CGX car nut	8483	50
Porsche	The moment I've been waiting for...	2/1/24 7:01 PM Pilot	890579	1364
Porsche	992 GT3	7/23/23 7:01 PM Grant	847891	3868
Porsche	GT4RS	4/21/24 11:50 AM mcdelaug	404098	1454
Porsche	Welcome to the new Taycan Forum!	2/10/24 4:43 PM nberry	400656	1526
Others	Tesla 2 the new thread	12/13/23 2:48 PM CGX car nut	387948	2401
Porsche	Donor vehicle for Singer Vehicle Design	7/3/23 12:30 PM Porker	372762	797
Porsche	Red Nipples 991.2 GT3 Touring on tour	5/12/24 6:23 PM blueflame	295142	669
Porsche	Collected my 997 GTS today	10/19/23 7:06 PM CGX car nut	269503	812
Lambo	Huracán EVO STO	7/30/23 6:59 PM mcdelaug	245293	346
Lotus	Lotus Emira	6/25/23 2:53 PM Enmanuel	239607	101
Others	Corvette C8	10/16/23 3:24 PM Enmanuel	223747	488
Others	Gordon Murray - T.50	11/22/23 10:27 AM mcdelaug	174279	387
Porsche	Back to basics - 996 GT3 RS	6/11/23 5:13 PM CGX car nut	145931	144
BMW M	2024 BMW M3 CS Official Now	12/29/23 9:04 AM RC	122522	303
Motor Sp.	2023 Formula One	12/19/23 5:38 AM Whoopsy	114524	685
Porsche	2022 992 Safari Model	3/7/24 4:22 PM Whoopsy	86847	239
AMG	Mercedes-Benz W124 500E aka Porsche typ 2758	2/23/24 10:03 PM blueflame	77132	297
Porsche	992 GT3 RS	3/3/24 7:22 PM Whoopsy	56271	314
Motor Sp.	Porsche 963	5/18/24 9:44 PM Wonderbar	28034	249
Ferrari	Ferrari 296 GTB (830PS, Hybrid V6)	1/21/24 4:29 PM GT-Boy	22676	103
BMW M	2022 BMW M5 CS	4/8/24 1:43 PM Ferdie	21421	140
AMG	G63 sold out	9/15/23 7:38 PM Nico997	17867	120
AMG	[2022] Mercedes-AMG SL	4/23/24 1:24 PM RC	15913	225
Porsche	Porsche Mission X Hypercar	12/3/23 8:52 AM 996FourEss	11810	63
Porsche	911 S/T	10/10/23 8:53 AM RC	11128	55

Crown

Forum - Thread

Problem after problems

Re: Problem after problems

Re: Problem after problems

Re: Problem after problems

Re: Problem after problems

Re: Problem after problems

Re: Problem after problems

Re: Problem after problems

Re: Problem after problems

Re: Problem after problems

Re: Problem after problems

Re: Problem after problems

Re: Problem after problems

Re: Problem after problems

Re: Problem after problems

Re: Problem after problems

Re: Problem after problems

Re: Problem after problems

Forum

Boards