Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Chrono option - do I really need it? - Page1

Nov 13, 2006 3:16:57 AM

BlackSparrow: Pilot; Loc: Bahamas , Bahamas; Posts: 424, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 28, 2006

Chrono option - do I really need it?

Guys, I posted before, sorry to flood - I ordered a Targa 4S, but I ordered it without the Sports Chrono option... Now I am eating myself in the indecision between calling the dealer and trying to add it (not sure if it is possible) or just letting it go.

I really do not care about the stopwatch or to track my laps. It is the Sport button that is bothering me that I am not going to have. I need answers from the pros of this forum:
1. Can I install the button later? Since it is all "software" anyways, there should be an easy way to wire in the button at a later time if I really feel deprived of it

2. Can I still control the suspension mode without the button? Does it really change the suspension?
3. Does that button really change anything that I will notice on a day-to-day driving? I am sure that I will be able to chase away M3s and SL500s without the button

)

Please help me, I've been growing this concern more and more reading of how you guys all say that it's a must-have..

Thanks in advance!

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Nov 13, 2006 10:54:02 AM

The Groom: Expert; Loc: EU; Posts: 1779, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 23, 2005; Reply to: BlackSparrow

Re: Chrono option - do I really need it?

Hello Black Sparrow, congratulations on your purchase.

1) I don't know about a retrofit. Sorry.

2) You can change the suspension mode even without the Sport Chrono. The sport mode is way too harsh anyway. In fact, if you do order the Sport Chrono, you're probably going to first put SC in Sport mode, then put back the PASM to Normal mode.

3) The Sport Chrono gives you more play room before PSM kicks in, and a more aggressive throttle mapping. However, it does not improve performance. It just spares your right foot muscles, since you won't need to truly floor it to go fast.
In addition to those two features, it also comes with a useless watch, and a few extra memory settings.

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Nov 13, 2006 11:48:24 AM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59579, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: BlackSparrow

Re: Chrono option - do I really need it?

Chrono Sport is a MUST-HAVE option. Despite the advantages you already heard about, it cannot be retrofitted. If you don't need it while driving...just leave it turned off.

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Nov 13, 2006 12:28:53 PM

Haku: Pilot; Loc: TN , United States; Posts: 481, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 6, 2005; Reply to: RC

Re: Chrono option - do I really need it?

IMO, Sports Chrono is a must. AFAIK, retrofit is mot possible.

From a functional point, whilst not providing any direct power benefits, the throttle response remap is great to have. Save for the lap timing functions, I use the various SC functions a lot.

I also love the ability to adjust the suspension as per my mood/road conditions.

Strongly suggest you go for it.

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Nov 13, 2006 12:52:46 PM

Porsche-Jeck: Rennteam Master; Loc: Rheinland , Germany; Posts: 4856, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 27, 2005; Reply to: Haku

Re: Chrono option - do I really need it?

There are also two other nice effects to enjoy during a spirited drive: harder kick-in of the rev-limiter and sharper cut-off of power if you lift your right foot

Regarding the throttle response remap try the following for a direct comparo: switch SC on, hold a constant speed somewhere bewteen 80-100 km/h on a straightline - now switch SC off without lifting or pushing down your right foot - feels like somebody would have stolen some ponies

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Nov 13, 2006 1:09:55 PM

John H: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Cheshire, UK , United Kingdom; Posts: 7682, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 20, 2005; Reply to: RC

Re: Chrono option - do I really need it?

Quote:
RC said:
Chrono Sport is a MUST-HAVE option. Despite the advantages you already heard about, it cannot be retrofitted. If you don't need it while driving...just leave it turned off.

RC - If you don't need it while driving, when would you need it? Surely not standing still.

I don't have SC so don't know if I'd miss it. Some people have said they dislike changing the throttle mapping as it means you have to adjust to the car's new characteristics.

I think I'd rather be 'at one' with what I've got used to rather than chopping and changing.

Anyway, as the saying goes, "What you've never had - you never miss"

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Nov 13, 2006 2:39:32 PM

Pentium: Rennteam Master; Loc: Earth , Romania; Posts: 3054, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 27, 2003; Reply to: BlackSparrow

Re: Chrono option - do I really need it?

I own one of the first 997 that was made since August 5, 2004.

The car came with the Sport Chrono option so I didn't had the chance to think about picking it or not.

But after more than two years of daily driving here is what I think: if you are the kind of driver that is using a cup car or a GT3 each weekend, like some of the people I know are, than buy it. If not, I personally believe you are better without it. Even the above mentioned people are disabling it in the rain or snow. Driving in normal mode is safer, especially on public roads.

My next 997 will not have it or I am going to buy a GT3

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Nov 13, 2006 2:56:39 PM

Marwan Arakji: Senior; Loc: Lebanon , Lebanon; Posts: 572, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 11, 2006; Reply to: Pentium

Re: Chrono option - do I really need it?

1- No chances of retro-fit.
2- No impact on suspension (PASm is independent of Sport Chrono package).
3- Sport Chrono option remaps the ECU and influences the throttle response time.

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Nov 13, 2006 3:13:01 PM

69bossnine: Rennteam Pro; Loc: FL, USA , United States; Posts: 2028, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 27, 2005; Reply to: Pentium

Re: Chrono option - do I really need it?

I drive in with the throttle map on Sport 100% of the time, and find it simple to modulate and easy to track. Compared to an old-school american V8, this car is just a rubber band with good legs up high...

To me, it's the way the throttle should be mapped for "normal" in the first place. If you ask me, a car with 355+ h.p. SHOULD feel a bit high-strung on the throttle, and it infuriates me when throttle maps are de-clawed and over-civilized to make the car feel like a minivan in traffic.

When the car is on normal, I find it's responses to be a tad soggy and lazy and uber-conservative, the sport mode better represents what the car would likely feel like if you ripped off all the electronic fuel injection gizmo-tech, and carbureted the sucker.

Sport mode dangerous?? C'mon. I find this car to be as tame as a kitten, in all weather, even with the sport mode on. It's hardly a torque beast, by any measure or definition, regardless of what magic buttons are engaged. If you're getting loose, I'd say you need to refine the right foot, not re-calibrate the throttle.

But everybody's wants and needs and likes will be different. I went into this car "figuring" that I'd likely evolve into never using the Sport button, as it'd be a hassle. It turned out to be the opposite, the two button strikes (Sport on, pasm normal) have become standard default starting procedure in my car.

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Nov 13, 2006 4:09:26 PM

Dan L: Expert; Loc: Santa Barbara, CA , United States; Posts: 1957, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 2, 2006; Reply to: 69bossnine

Re: Chrono option - do I really need it?

If you're like the majority of 997 owners here, you plan to sell the car someday (within 4 years). I consider it a must have option because of the revised throttle mapping. I don't personally care for the chrono,--would rather they put a clock up there instead.

dan

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Nov 13, 2006 4:19:01 PM

WR: Senior; Loc: Taipei , Taiwan; Posts: 637, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 26, 2005; Reply to: Dan L

Re: Chrono option - do I really need it?

I too use the sport 'on' and pasm 'off' mode often when I am driving hard on the weekend. A YES vote from me to the 'Sport Chorno'

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Nov 13, 2006 4:30:44 PM

devo: Veteran; Loc: NY , United States; Posts: 1107, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 31, 2006; Reply to: WR

Re: Chrono option - do I really need it?

Lets face it, the 355 h.p. engine is sadly lacking in power anyway. I too, agree, that it FEELS even less powerful without the revised fuel mapping in place. I never drive without the sport button illuminated. "Mini-Vanish", yep, that pretty much describes the throttle feeling of normal mode.
In fact, normal mode should be the enhanced version. You should be able to start the car with sport mode activated and have the choice of de-activating it if so desired. Of course, it SHOULD have the X51 powerkit as standard also, but, that's another story. Only Porsche could get away with charging customers $17K for what should have been standard.

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Nov 13, 2006 5:57:32 PM

Pentium: Rennteam Master; Loc: Earth , Romania; Posts: 3054, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 27, 2003; Reply to: 69bossnine

Re: Chrono option - do I really need it?

69bossnine: You are very confident, like all people that are going to the track a lot, but that doesn't mean that the rest of the world must be the same. I stick with what I said (in fact you just gave me more ammo): if you track your 911 often go for the Sport Chrono. Indeed the sport engine mapping setting it's very useful. If you don't is better to stay on the safe side. Boss9, what I am saying goes in your advantage too. I don't think you will like to be hit from the opposite way by a 911 that is running out of control on sport mode ...

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Nov 13, 2006 6:11:00 PM

devo: Veteran; Loc: NY , United States; Posts: 1107, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 31, 2006; Reply to: Pentium

Re: Chrono option - do I really need it?

Quote:
Pentium said:
69bossnine: You are very confident, like all people that are going to the track a lot, but that doesn't mean that the rest of the world must be the same. I stick with what I said (in fact you just gave me more ammo): if you track your 911 often go for the Sport Chrono. Indeed the sport engine mapping setting it's very useful. If you don't is better to stay on the safe side. Boss9, what I am saying goes in your advantage too. I don't think you will like to be hit from the opposite way by a 911 that is running out of control on sport mode ...

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Nov 13, 2006 6:15:59 PM

Pentium: Rennteam Master; Loc: Earth , Romania; Posts: 3054, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 27, 2003; Reply to: devo

Re: Chrono option - do I really need it?

What?

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Nov 13, 2006 6:21:24 PM

Pentium: Rennteam Master; Loc: Earth , Romania; Posts: 3054, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 27, 2003; Reply to: devo

Re: Chrono option - do I really need it?

If you have proper racing training buy it.
If not, it's better not to buy it. That's what I think after spending more than two years with the car (it's my daily driver).

With SC on, if it's wet and you lift off mid turn because something suddenly appears is in front of you it's more dangerous than with SC off. It happened to me.

And a friend of mine was hit by a 911 (he was driving a BMW) that did exactly what I described above. SC was ON.

Not everybody is a racing driver.

Yes, it's better to train the foot but nobody really does it.

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Nov 13, 2006 6:25:01 PM

devo: Veteran; Loc: NY , United States; Posts: 1107, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 31, 2006; Reply to: Pentium

Re: Chrono option - do I really need it?

Even if you like the tame throttle settings of normal mode, sport chrono offers so much more that it is a must have. Just read the numerous posts substantiating it's advantage.
Unless, you plan on keeping the car, which everyone says they're doing, and few do, your resale will suffer terribly. I've never heard of anyone not buying a 997 because it had sport chrono, but I know of several buyers that wouldn't even consider one without it.
"Out of control" drivers because of sport chrono; come on... now you're reaching.
If you don't like the clock; okay, the throttle setting; don't use it, but that's not all what sport chrono is about.
It's your car, do as you please, but I won't soften my opinion. In the end, drive fast and be safe.

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Nov 13, 2006 6:25:34 PM

911Fanatic: Co-Pilot; Loc: Alpharetta, Georgia; Posts: 176, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 26, 2005; Reply to: Dan L

Re: Chrono option - do I really need it?

Sport Chrono option...an absolute must in my opinion!

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Nov 13, 2006 6:32:59 PM

devo: Veteran; Loc: NY , United States; Posts: 1107, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 31, 2006; Reply to: Pentium

Re: Chrono option - do I really need it?

Quote:
Pentium said:
If you have proper racing training buy it.
If not, it's better not to buy it. That's what I think after spending more than two years with the car (it's my daily driver).

With SC on, if it's wet and you lift off mid turn because something suddenly appears is in front of you it's more dangerous than with SC off. It happened to me.

And a friend of mine was hit by a 911 (he was driving a BMW) that did exactly what I described above. SC was ON.

Not everybody is a racing driver.

Yes, it's better to train the foot but nobody really does it.

Sport Chrono was not likely the usual suspect. More likely driver error. It has more advantages on the street than the track.

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Nov 13, 2006 6:52:50 PM

Pentium: Rennteam Master; Loc: Earth , Romania; Posts: 3054, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 27, 2003; Reply to: devo

Re: Chrono option - do I really need it?

Everybody said that if the PSM was stepping in sooner that would not happen.

Maybe it's driver error - doesn't really matter at all. There are much more inexperienced drivers than racing drivers. I noticed in the past a lot of 996GT2 accidents and much less 996GT3 ones. Maybe who knows his shhhit knows also what to buy. And drive.

And exactly the people that are more dangerous and don't have a lot of money are buying a used GT3 or a 911 with SC and bang! next day.

From my point of view a car without SC is safer in the hands of an inexperienced driver, especially on public roads. And frankly, everybody crashes no matter how good they are. I took a right 90 degrees bend once, moderate, I had SC on, and after I started to turn I've seen a dog jumping in front of my car. So I pushed the throttle harder and barely avoided the dog. The normal reaction that people will have in such a situation will be to break. And if you have a lot of lateral acceleration you will spin. The throttle sensitivity saved me that day but other people will crash.

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Nov 13, 2006 6:59:49 PM

BlackSparrow: Pilot; Loc: Bahamas , Bahamas; Posts: 424, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 28, 2006; Reply to: devo

Re: Chrono option - do I really need it?

Quote:
Pentium said:
69bossnine: You are very confident, like all people that are going to the track a lot, but that doesn't mean that the rest of the world must be the same. I stick with what I said (in fact you just gave me more ammo): if you track your 911 often go for the Sport Chrono. Indeed the sport engine mapping setting it's very useful. If you don't is better to stay on the safe side. Boss9, what I am saying goes in your advantage too. I don't think you will like to be hit from the opposite way by a 911 that is running out of control on sport mode ...

hahahah it is the driver discipline to drive responsible, but I thought that this was a sports car forum, not a babysitters central.. why buy a porsche to go slow? there are other brands of cars for that.

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Nov 13, 2006 7:28:29 PM

69bossnine: Rennteam Pro; Loc: FL, USA , United States; Posts: 2028, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 27, 2005; Reply to: Pentium

Re: Chrono option - do I really need it?

Quote:
Pentium said:
If you have proper racing training buy it.
If not, it's better not to buy it. That's what I think after spending more than two years with the car (it's my daily driver).

With SC on, if it's wet and you lift off mid turn because something suddenly appears is in front of you it's more dangerous than with SC off. It happened to me.

And a friend of mine was hit by a 911 (he was driving a BMW) that did exactly what I described above. SC was ON.

Not everybody is a racing driver.

Yes, it's better to train the foot but nobody really does it.

What was that I felt?? Kind of a tremor, a bit of bumping under my feet??...... OH, it was Dr. Porsche doing somersaults in his grave...

Good gravy Pentium, in all due respect....

"Proper racing training" for sport chrono is kinda like requiring proper firearm training to shoot a water pistol... The button sharpens the responses, but c'mon.

We'll have to agree to disagree I suppose, which is okee dokee.

BTW, my 997S is purely for occassional driving and fun and cruising, I don't track mine... (I'm too hard on machinery at the track, so I always use rented or loaned equipment!! LOL!!!!!)

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Nov 14, 2006 6:00:26 AM

jerrygee: Junior; Loc: Julian, CA; Posts: 95, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 2, 2006; Reply to: 69bossnine

Re: Chrono option - do I really need it?

I opted not to include the Sport Chrono when I ordered my 997S.

I prefer linear throttles and don't care for the stop watch on the dash. I do like some of the features of Sport Chrono but the front loaded throttle mapping and in my opinion unsightly stop watch on an otherwise clean dash plus the fact that it doesn't add any power or performance (only the allusion of better performance) was enough for me to pass on the option.

As far as resale, if I would have been concerned about that I wouldn't have added close to $46,000 in options that I wanted, not what I thought the next guy who gets the car may want.

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Nov 14, 2006 7:45:27 AM

icon: Pilot; Loc: birmingham.al.usa.na; Posts: 442, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 13, 2006; Reply to: jerrygee

Re: Chrono option - do I really need it?

blacksparrow i would imagine you are pretty confused from the variety of answers?
the only porsche i would consider sport chrono being a "must have option" for is the turbo because of the overboost function.

i have it in my 997 and do not recommend purchasing it as an option.
throttle remap? for what? it's a gimmick.
why would you want to change throttle response from what you are accustomed to for spirited driving? for less control?
you will be able change modes on both psm and pasm w/o sport chrono.
so all you really get is a fancy expensive stop watch.
jeff

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Nov 14, 2006 2:20:24 PM

Neil Schneider: Co-Pilot; Loc: New Jersey, USA; Posts: 278, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 8, 2006; Reply to: icon

Re: Chrono option - do I really need it?

I didn't get it in my car. I read other posts, plus and minus, and the car I liked did not have it. It didn't make the car faster and I like the linear response of the throttle, don't care about the stopwatch. I have driven other cars especially american ones, where the throttle is all at the top and I did not like it.

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Nov 14, 2006 2:26:39 PM

frayed: Senior; Loc: Austin, TX , United States; Posts: 510, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2004; Reply to: Neil Schneider

Re: Chrono option - do I really need it?

I think it's a friggen gimmick. I had it in my 997S, and the throttle remap was purely a gimmick. It made the thottle non-linear, to 'fool' the driver into believing the car was more powerful. Worse, it makes fine thottle adjustments at the limit a PITA.

The wart is heinous and non-functional. Do you really think you can read that while driving?

The only good aspect of the sport chrono is that the PSM limits are relaxed. Makes it a bit more fun to go balls out, as PSM loosens some of its grip.

It's an even more ridiculous option on the GT3.

The only car that should have it is the Turbo.

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Nov 14, 2006 2:42:34 PM

devo: Veteran; Loc: NY , United States; Posts: 1107, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 31, 2006; Reply to: jerrygee

Re: Chrono option - do I really need it?

Quote:
jerrygee said:
I opted not to include the Sport Chrono when I ordered my 997S.

I prefer linear throttles and don't care for the stop watch on the dash. I do like some of the features of Sport Chrono but the front loaded throttle mapping and in my opinion unsightly stop watch on an otherwise clean dash plus the fact that it doesn't add any power or performance (only the allusion of better performance) was enough for me to pass on the option.

As far as resale, if I would have been concerned about that I wouldn't have added close to $46,000 in options that I wanted, not what I thought the next guy who gets the car may want.

I envy you. I wish I could forget about the dollars and just enjoy the car. My rational side and emotional side argue constantly. Your well equipped 997 must be a dream.

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Nov 14, 2006 3:01:38 PM

69bossnine: Rennteam Pro; Loc: FL, USA , United States; Posts: 2028, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 27, 2005; Reply to: frayed

Re: Chrono option - do I really need it?

Guys, the 997 is DRIVE BY WIRE... Therefore your claims of "linear throttle response" are pure speculation. You have no idea what the standard mode represents compared to what a cable connected to a throttle body would provide.

You have no way of knowing with any certainty "which" setting best represents a direct and un-modified rheostat calibration that accurately replicates a direct throttle connection. With drive-by-wire, it's all calibration programmed into a processor.

Some may think the standard setting is linear, but others (like myself) find it timid, and believe that the sport mode is more in-step with how the car would respond old-school, and that the normal setting is a de-fanged setup to make the car seem more civil and tractable in traffic, hence the 911 being known as a high-performance car with the civility of a daily-driver... The normal setting intentionally tries to cover both sides of the fence.

That's my point, with drive-by-wire, it's all a mirage, an illusion. So there is no "normal" and "sport" in my eyes, there's just two different calibrations, two different perceptions. BOTH settings are nothing more than perception, it's just that one feels more lazy and less immediate than the other...

I think everyone could benefit from some seat time in an old and well-tuned carbureted car, to have some perspective on how intentionally SOFT these new cars respond, due to manufacturers seeking refinement and civility in high-powered machines.

Oh well, it's just a setting, drive with whichever one you prefer, there's no right or wrong. My only argument is that BOTH settings are just smoke & mirrors for all we know here, both are providing you with a carefully doctored link to the engine. It's kind of silly to claim that one setting purely represents the engine's responses, and the other docters it up to trick you. It could run either way, they're both just purpose-programmed calibrations.

My sport button IS my normal setting. Anybody pondering the Sport Chrono option need only take a test drive, try all the settings, and decide which setup pleases their senses the most....

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Nov 14, 2006 3:31:02 PM

Porsche-Jeck: Rennteam Master; Loc: Rheinland , Germany; Posts: 4856, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 27, 2005; Reply to: 69bossnine

Re: Chrono option - do I really need it?

Quote:
69bossnine said:
I think everyone could benefit from some seat time in an old and well-tuned carbureted car, to have some perspective on how intentionally SOFT these new cars respond, due to manufacturers seeking refinement and civility in high-powered machines.

Excellent point

Even a 20 years old "underpowered" Carrera will do that for you

I fully agree with you that it's just a matter of personal preference whether one likes SC or not, but IMO it has nothing to do with safe driving at the limit - it does not the car make behave like a '76 Turbo

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Nov 14, 2006 3:47:58 PM

69bossnine: Rennteam Pro; Loc: FL, USA , United States; Posts: 2028, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 27, 2005; Reply to: Porsche-Jeck

Re: Chrono option - do I really need it?

I still have vivid memories my senior year of high school of a euro-spec '85 Carrera that was imported by our local grey-market shop, that I took for a weekend for a full detail-job (that was my profession as a kid) prior to them converting it for U.S. sale. That thing had the hair-trigger throttle from hell. It was also the car that cemented my lifelong affinity for the 911. It wasn't faster than my '05 by a long-shot of course, but it responded faster.

When you've got 400-500 h.p. cars rolling out onto the streets these days that have the city manners of a Lincoln Town Car, you know that there's alot of refinement "built-in" via computer control.

BTW, sorry if I sounded too hyper/harsh on the last post, one too many cups of coffee this morning...

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Re: Chrono option - do I really need it?

Re: Chrono option - do I really need it?

Re: Chrono option - do I really need it?

Re: Chrono option - do I really need it?

Re: Chrono option - do I really need it?

Re: Chrono option - do I really need it?

Re: Chrono option - do I really need it?

Re: Chrono option - do I really need it?

Re: Chrono option - do I really need it?

Re: Chrono option - do I really need it?

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