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Nov 7, 2006 1:36:54 AM
- SoCalHoosier
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- Loc: California , United States
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- Reply to: JimFlat6
Nov 7, 2006 2:41:01 AM
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nberry
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- Loc: La Jolla, USA , United States
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Re: Chevy's 650-hp Corvette
Quote:
SoCalHoosier said:
They need to work on refining the current Z06 rather than just making it more powerful. What use is all that power if you need to be an Andretti to handle it?
How is that any different than the CGT? I read that a dealer sold a CGT to a buyer who did not know how to drive a manual.
BTW, GM may require attendance at a driver training course before one can purchase the car.
Nov 7, 2006 6:22:53 AM
- Mike S
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- Loc: Somewhere , Taiwan
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- Reply to: Atzporsche
Re: Chevy's 650-hp Corvette
Quote:
Mike S said:Quote:
Atzporsche said:
The difference is that the CGTs manual works properly!
And at least the roof doesn't fly off because it isn't glued on
well, with 650bhp, it's the all car that's gonna fall apart. It's gonna be like those cartoons where the character runs so fast that his clothes stay put, where he was standing a second before.
The vette is gonna be fast, but is going to leave body parts at the starting line. Only the wheels and the engine will stick to to the chassi.
Re: Chevy's 650-hp Corvette
Quote:
nberry said:Quote:
SoCalHoosier said:
They need to work on refining the current Z06 rather than just making it more powerful. What use is all that power if you need to be an Andretti to handle it?
How is that any different than the CGT? I read that a dealer sold a CGT to a buyer who did not know how to drive a manual.
BTW, GM may require attendance at a driver training course before one can purchase the car.
Having had the pleasure of taking a driving test also in the US and using some of your logic I wonder how any manufacture could consider sells any cars in the US. Manuel or not. Overall driving levels are so pur...
Re: Chevy's 650-hp Corvette
Quote:
TEE1 said:Quote:
nberry said:Quote:
SoCalHoosier said:
They need to work on refining the current Z06 rather than just making it more powerful. What use is all that power if you need to be an Andretti to handle it?
How is that any different than the CGT? I read that a dealer sold a CGT to a buyer who did not know how to drive a manual.
BTW, GM may require attendance at a driver training course before one can purchase the car.
Having had the pleasure of taking a driving test also in the US and using some of your logic I wonder how any manufacture could consider sells any cars in the US. Manuel or not. Overall driving levels are so pur...
Re: Chevy's 650-hp Corvette
I don't get all the z06 bashing. It's a fantastic car that doesn't harp on aesthetics and "german engineering" but, still manages to "beat the [beep]" out of the Porsche marquee Turbo and the Ferrari F430 on a track...
Sure you're not getting refinement, but you can't get everything for 65 grand can you?
Sure you're not getting refinement, but you can't get everything for 65 grand can you?
Re: Chevy's 650-hp Corvette
Quote:
amazon said:Quote:
Mike S said:Quote:
Atzporsche said:
The difference is that the CGTs manual works properly!
And at least the roof doesn't fly off because it isn't glued on
well, with 650bhp, it's the all car that's gonna fall apart. It's gonna be like those cartoons where the character runs so fast that his clothes stay put, where he was standing a second before.
The vette is gonna be fast, but is going to leave body parts at the starting line. Only the wheels and the engine will stick to to the chassi.
Its a new system GM tested with the roof called VWR - Variable Weight Reduction
Re: Chevy's 650-hp Corvette
I'm surprised that GM is using the supercharger, I think that the supercharge phase is over. MB is phasing them out and is joined by Audi and BMW in a "NA-phase" trying to show superiority this way.
Basically anyone can throw a supercharger onto a car and make it go like stink, but it doesn't say much about engineering.
I guess they feel this is what they need to beat the 997GT3 and RS at the 'ring.
Basically anyone can throw a supercharger onto a car and make it go like stink, but it doesn't say much about engineering.
I guess they feel this is what they need to beat the 997GT3 and RS at the 'ring.
Re: Chevy's 650-hp Corvette
Quote:
RR4 said:
I'm surprised that GM is using the supercharger, I think that the supercharge phase is over. MB is phasing them out and is joined by Audi and BMW in a "NA-phase" trying to show superiority this way.
Basically anyone can throw a supercharger onto a car and make it go like stink, but it doesn't say much about engineering.
I guess they feel this is what they need to beat the 997GT3 and RS at the 'ring.
I'd prefer the supercharger. Big, heavy cars require torque, not Formula-1-like rev ranges.
Personally, I don't think a car has to have high-tech engineering. As long as it delivers on power, consumption and emissions, it's good to go and I'd prefer it to a high-tech, high-rev engine which will almost inevitably face problems. Just look at Chevy and their Z06 engine.
Re: Chevy's 650-hp Corvette
Quote:
RR4 said:
I'm surprised that GM is using the supercharger, I think that the supercharge phase is over. MB is phasing them out and is joined by Audi and BMW in a "NA-phase" trying to show superiority this way.
Basically anyone can throw a supercharger onto a car and make it go like stink, but it doesn't say much about engineering.
I guess they feel this is what they need to beat the 997GT3 and RS at the 'ring.
IF they put a supercharger on the SS, it's not because they need to in order to get the HP. Trust me in saying that the LS7 at 505 crank HP is VERY detuned. I know several guys who freqeunt the track with factory stock LS7's in their C5Z06's that are making 500RWHP on 91 octance gas all day. With some minor porting and mild cam, 600RWHP is easy with a normal idle, AC and cat converters. No...this motor can probably make up to 600 RWHP and stay emission legal.
IF they use a supercharger it is for some other reason than to simply attain HP. Rememeber a boosted engine will get better mileage than a displacement engine of the same power. I bet they are trying to make 600hp and aviod gas guzzler...imagine that!
Just because GM doesn't make $150k elite luxury cars, do you actually think their engineers are dumb? That is VERY naive. Their core business is to pump out hundreds of thousands of trucks and cheap cars for the average public to buy in mass quantity. That is their bread and butter.
I would guarantee that GM has equal or better engineering than ANY car manufacturing company in the world...they just don't have the business model to utilize it. Where do you think Ferrari got their magnetic suspension?? Tuned Port Injection? This car will be much more than motor, and I bet (like the Z06, but even more), this car will turn the sports car world upsidown, with power to weight, to cost, gas mileage, and warranty.
Germans/Italians are more likely to put better technology into their cars, because that is their business model and people will pay for it. But I guarantee, if both companies had to build a space shuttle tomorrow at all costs, GM would pull away like a freight train.
Re: Chevy's 650-hp Corvette
This will basically be the LeMans winning car dressed for the street. Much like an FXX is to the Enzo. It's going to be pretty hardcore I think. 2850Lbs at 650hp is going to be quite fast. We'll see if the handling can keep up. Obviously GM knows how to do this or they wouldn't be so successful year after year at LeMans.
Re: Chevy's 650-hp Corvette
Appreciate your flag waving and think the Z06 is a great car and the engineers are good which is why I'm surprised that such smart engineers would push the supercharger rather than squeezing more out of that 7 l motor, thats all.
And sort of off topic but do you know who Dr. Werner von Braun was?
The US's space program was nothing without him and his colleagues who were all German rocket scientists for the German army in WWII.
Without him the US Space program didn't exist and wouldn't have existed, the Soviets were way ahead of the US before them.
Re: Chevy's 650-hp Corvette
Quote:
RR4 said:
Appreciate your flag waving and think the Z06 is a great car and the engineers are good which is why I'm surprised that such smart engineers would push the supercharger rather than squeezing more out of that 7 l motor, thats all.
And sort of off topic but do you know who Dr. Werner von Braun was?
The US's space program was nothing without him and his colleagues who were all German rocket scientists for the German army in WWII.
Without him the US Space program didn't exist and wouldn't have existed, the Soviets were way ahead of the US before them.
Patriotism is a good thing, but sometimes it can cloud judgement, as has been the case during the last five years.
Re: Chevy's 650-hp Corvette
Quote:
RR4 said:
Appreciate your flag waving and think the Z06 is a great car and the engineers are good which is why I'm surprised that such smart engineers would push the supercharger rather than squeezing more out of that 7 l motor, thats all.
And sort of off topic but do you know who Dr. Werner von Braun was?
The US's space program was nothing without him and his colleagues who were all German rocket scientists for the German army in WWII.
Without him the US Space program didn't exist and wouldn't have existed, the Soviets were way ahead of the US before them.
Don't forget the atom bomb, we have to thank the Germans for that one too!
I am only making a point (in my much exagerated style) that manufacturers like GM and Ford have the capability to produce some really great cars, unfortunately they don't for business purposes, not because their engineering dept isn't up to the task.
Re: Chevy's 650-hp Corvette
Quote:
95jersey said:Quote:
RR4 said:
Appreciate your flag waving and think the Z06 is a great car and the engineers are good which is why I'm surprised that such smart engineers would push the supercharger rather than squeezing more out of that 7 l motor, thats all.
And sort of off topic but do you know who Dr. Werner von Braun was?
The US's space program was nothing without him and his colleagues who were all German rocket scientists for the German army in WWII.
Without him the US Space program didn't exist and wouldn't have existed, the Soviets were way ahead of the US before them.
Don't forget the atom bomb, we have to thank the Germans for that one too!
I am only making a point (in my much exagerated style) that manufacturers like GM and Ford have the capability to produce some really great cars, unfortunately they don't for business purposes, not because their engineering dept isn't up to the task.
I'm looking forward to the GM hydrogen car being tested in China. I think every major car manufacturer today has enough resources to develop an efficient hydrogen-powered car. It's only a question of money, whether it be VAG, DC or GM.
Re: Chevy's 650-hp Corvette
Quote:
95jersey said:Quote:
RR4 said:
Appreciate your flag waving and think the Z06 is a great car and the engineers are good which is why I'm surprised that such smart engineers would push the supercharger rather than squeezing more out of that 7 l motor, thats all.
And sort of off topic but do you know who Dr. Werner von Braun was?
The US's space program was nothing without him and his colleagues who were all German rocket scientists for the German army in WWII.
Without him the US Space program didn't exist and wouldn't have existed, the Soviets were way ahead of the US before them.
Don't forget the atom bomb, we have to thank the Germans for that one too!
A world effort;
Oppenheimer US born
Teller Hungarian born
Fermi Italian born
Bohr Danish born
extra time this am
Re: Chevy's 650-hp Corvette
There aren't many, but the few that were made are recognized as some of the greatest sports cars ever produced:
289 Cobra
427 Cobra
GT-40
Mark IV
Stingray Corvette 427
Ford GT
ZR-1
Dodge Viper
Z06
Saleen S7
Corvette SS?
Many of these cars won LeMans several times in a row. I watched a show regarding Ford's GT-40 effort at Lemans from 1966-1970, and Dan Gurney said the car did 90mph in first gear!!!
289 Cobra
427 Cobra
GT-40
Mark IV
Stingray Corvette 427
Ford GT
ZR-1
Dodge Viper
Z06
Saleen S7
Corvette SS?
Many of these cars won LeMans several times in a row. I watched a show regarding Ford's GT-40 effort at Lemans from 1966-1970, and Dan Gurney said the car did 90mph in first gear!!!
Re: Chevy's 650-hp Corvette
Quote:
Crash said:
I'm looking forward to the GM hydrogen car being tested in China. I think every major car manufacturer today has enough resources to develop an efficient hydrogen-powered car. It's only a question of money, whether it be VAG, DC or GM.
This will have to wait for a breakthrough in hydrogen production and storage. It's not a question of money, it's a question of physics. We'll have commercial fusion before it happens (it's quite a requirement actually).
Tar sands and Fischer-Tropsch coal transformation are where it's at. And it's going to suck. Big time.
As for why American cars suck today, the blame lies solely on the lack of a real federal healthcare and pension system. So if you want to save Detroit, it's high time to switch to socialism.
I'm being serious here. The lack of a sufficient socialized pension and healthcare system shifts the burden onto companies.
If your company has been around for a long time, but your competitor has not, your competitor automatically has a $1,000 advantage. If you want to sell your product at the same price as your competitors, you're going to have to cut corners on build quality and R&D.
And since your product is going to suck, you're going to have to sell at a lower price. Which implies you're going to have to cut even more corners.
Which is exactly what is happening to the Big Three. There are only two possible outcomes: either Chapter 11, or a European-style welfare state. Remember that in 2008.
Re: Chevy's 650-hp Corvette
Quote:
The Groom said:Quote:
Crash said:
I'm looking forward to the GM hydrogen car being tested in China. I think every major car manufacturer today has enough resources to develop an efficient hydrogen-powered car. It's only a question of money, whether it be VAG, DC or GM.
This will have to wait for a breakthrough in hydrogen production and storage. It's not a question of money, it's a question of physics. We'll have commercial fusion before it happens (it's quite a requirement actually).
Tar sands and Fischer-Tropsch coal transformation are where it's at. And it's going to suck. Big time.
As for why American cars suck today, the blame lies solely on the lack of a real federal healthcare and pension system. So if you want to save Detroit, it's high time to switch to socialism.
I'm being serious here. The lack of a sufficient socialized pension and healthcare system shifts the burden onto companies.
If your company has been around for a long time, but your competitor has not, your competitor automatically has a $1,000 advantage. If you want to sell your product at the same price as your competitors, you're going to have to cut corners on build quality and R&D.
And since your product is going to suck, you're going to have to sell at a lower price. Which implies you're going to have to cut even more corners.
Which is exactly what is happening to the Big Three. There are only two possible outcomes: either Chapter 11, or a European-style welfare state. Remember that in 2008.
A welfare state wouldn't be so bad IMO, as long as it stays within reasonable limits and social transfers are kept in check (anything over 20% of GDP is too much, 15% would be just right IMO). Everyone deserves to know that they will be taken care of when old, as long as they have worked off their share, without fearing what will happen if their company goes under
.While we're at hydrogen, what do you think would be the most feasible alternative to fossil fuels?
Re: Chevy's 650-hp Corvette
Quote:
The Groom said:Quote:
Crash said:
I'm looking forward to the GM hydrogen car being tested in China. I think every major car manufacturer today has enough resources to develop an efficient hydrogen-powered car. It's only a question of money, whether it be VAG, DC or GM.
This will have to wait for a breakthrough in hydrogen production and storage. It's not a question of money, it's a question of physics. We'll have commercial fusion before it happens (it's quite a requirement actually).
Tar sands and Fischer-Tropsch coal transformation are where it's at. And it's going to suck. Big time.
As for why American cars suck today, the blame lies solely on the lack of a real federal healthcare and pension system. So if you want to save Detroit, it's high time to switch to socialism.
I'm being serious here. The lack of a sufficient socialized pension and healthcare system shifts the burden onto companies.
If your company has been around for a long time, but your competitor has not, your competitor automatically has a $1,000 advantage. If you want to sell your product at the same price as your competitors, you're going to have to cut corners on build quality and R&D.
And since your product is going to suck, you're going to have to sell at a lower price. Which implies you're going to have to cut even more corners.
Which is exactly what is happening to the Big Three. There are only two possible outcomes: either Chapter 11, or a European-style welfare state. Remember that in 2008.
There has been much talk about moving healthcare into a car/life insurance model, where it no longer becomes an employer's responsibility, but the employee. So they would shop healthcare like car insurance. Rather than an employer managing large health plans for employees, give them the extra $$$$ and let them purchase it themselves like other insurance.
This model has it's upsides and downsides, but it all boils down to politics unfortunately.
Re: Chevy's 650-hp Corvette
Quote:
95jersey said:
There has been much talk about moving healthcare into a car/life insurance model, where it no longer becomes an employer's responsibility, but the employee. So they would shop healthcare like car insurance. Rather than an employer managing large health plans for employees, give them the extra $$$$ and let them purchase it themselves like other insurance.
Mmmm... and where are these extra $$$$ going to come from?
Besides, I would not put too much trust into the average American (or European for that matter). You KNOW most of them are going to invest them in strippers or lottery tickets (remember the post-Katrina handouts?). And once they p*ssed it all away, they'll ask for more. From you. If they don't ask, they will steal. Either by force, or by legislation.
I don't care whether it's a pay-as-you-go system, a state pension fund, or a mix or both, as long as the burden is spread equally between all citizens and all companies, regardless of how many employees each individual company used to have 20 years ago. That's the only way to remove the cost advantage US-built Hondas have over US-built Chevys.
Quote:
Crash said:
While we're at hydrogen, what do you think would be the most feasible alternative to fossil fuels?
As far as fixed energy needs are concerned, we're set for eternity with a mix of traditional heavy-water and fast breeder nuclear power plants.
Unfortunately, there is no suitable alternative for mobile needs (i.e. cars). Hydrogen is not an option. It's just a waste of energy at all steps of its use. Moreover, there are so many technical hurdles to overcome it's doubtful we could make it within 50 years even if we threw 5% of the world's GDP at it.
Alcohol is the only candidate. Butanol, specifically. But we'll have to generate it from algae, as there is not enough acreage to grow the necessary biomass on the ground.
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