Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Wiping the grin off smug 911ers..... - Page1

Nov 1, 2006 9:13:55 PM

JYH: Junior; Loc: London, Singapore , Singapore; Posts: 74, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 31, 2006

Wiping the grin off smug 911ers.....

Heheheh....(subject matter guaranteed to ruffle a few feathers)...but anyway...

Just wondering if anybody has considered/done an engine upgrade on their Cayman S. In particular, I quite like the sound of this Techart Engine upgrade. Any idea of convenience of fitting, costs, and hiked insurance premia for someone who lives in London? I've heard this piece of kit will get you performance gains of about 0.5s-0.8s on 0-60.

POWER KIT TA 087S/C3.6 Art.-Nr.: 087.300.360.009
approx. 250kw / 340hp
(the figures may change due to tolerances of the standard engine)
Base 3.4l / 217kw / 295hp
consisting of:
- Increased capacity 3.6l
- connecting rods
- crankshaft
- Injection valves
- TECHART-Sport induction pipes
- TECHART-Sport airbox
- Aluminium intake manifold
- TECHART-Extractor manifold
- TECHART-Sport exhaust system
- TECHART-Motronic (Modification of genuine part)
- TÜV-certificate

Alternatively, if anybody has any better suggestions as to how I can attain similar improved stats (e.g. 0-60 lowered by 0.5s or better) at a lower cost/minimum installment fuss, it'd be much appreciated! Plus, are these upgrades compatible with Tiptronic boxes?

Thanks, J

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Nov 1, 2006 10:44:59 PM

JimFlat6: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Cave , United States; Posts: 8633, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 25, 2004; Reply to: JYH

Re: Wiping the grin off smug 911ers.....

TechArt is not a good deal. They are expensive enough to make you wish had traded up to a used 997S instead. In the US, I guess your mechanical surgery at 25K in parts and 12-15k for labor - and your list does not include a few other parts you will need.

It also might cost you less to source a used 997S engine
and do a engine swap instead of buying Techart parts and the paying the shop labor rates to fit them.

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Nov 1, 2006 11:45:49 PM

Frozen: Newbie; Loc: Dallas, TX; Posts: 3, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 29, 2006; Reply to: JimFlat6

Re: Wiping the grin off smug 911ers.....

Jim,

In the US one could get a Ruf conversion done for about the same cost as you cite. It would be a 3.8, X-51, powerplant too.

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Nov 2, 2006 12:02:15 AM

JimFlat6: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Cave , United States; Posts: 8633, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 25, 2004; Reply to: Frozen

Re: Wiping the grin off smug 911ers.....

Porsche surgery is never inexpensive.

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Nov 2, 2006 11:14:12 PM

JYH: Junior; Loc: London, Singapore , Singapore; Posts: 74, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 31, 2006; Reply to: JimFlat6

Re: Wiping the grin off smug 911ers.....

Jim - thanks for the tip. Would there be any compatibility issues with implanting the 911 engine into the Cayman; given that it is meant to be rear-situated? I know that sounds really naive and ignorant but you can never be too sure!

Frozen - do you have any details/pdf brochures on the RUF conversion?

Thanks to all....J

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Nov 3, 2006 1:23:56 AM

JimFlat6: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Cave , United States; Posts: 8633, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 25, 2004; Reply to: JYH

Re: Wiping the grin off smug 911ers.....

JYH - Its a common transplant procedure and even lots of independent shops do it.

What likely you wont get out of it is additional resale value to equal your conversion cost.

Past a certain price point the market for Porsches shifts to demand for 911's with little demand for modded high priced used Caymans/Boxsters. So think before you leap.

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Nov 3, 2006 1:46:47 AM

JYH: Junior; Loc: London, Singapore , Singapore; Posts: 74, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 31, 2006; Reply to: JimFlat6

Re: Wiping the grin off smug 911ers.....

All valid points, thanks. It's good to weigh out the options... Any other suggestions on how to boost the car by a good 20-30bhp e.g. chipping? In all the above failing, I'll just trade in for a 997S :-p If you can't beat 'em, join 'em.....j/k

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Nov 3, 2006 6:17:58 AM

JimFlat6: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Cave , United States; Posts: 8633, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 25, 2004; Reply to: JYH

Re: Wiping the grin off smug 911ers.....

20 plus hp is probably attainable with less restrictve intake, tuned headers, sport cats (wich will not last long), tuned exhaust and ecu re- mapping (chip). However.. the trick is to find the right combination of brands of parts and the right guy to set it all up properly.... and that isnt easy.

And just seat of the pants endoresments from other mod customers is not a replacement for Dyno figures - wich can change from brand to brand of Dyno, altitude and air/motor temps and fuel quality.

Then you get to the next issue - would an additional 20hp without changing cam profiles - and a limited slip diff to get the power down - really net you any more real world accelleration worth sacrificifing durability and warranty on some parts??

Yes aftermarket parts do have their own warranty, but on just the parts - not the labor to uninstall and re install their replacements if the originals are defective - thats something to clafify with whomever you select to mod your car.

You will see a lot of car parts makers claims to add 10, 20,30 hp - but few achieve it without sacrificing something
be it on the engines output curve, durability or reliabilty or somewhere.

Is it all worth it? might be better to spend the money on several different advanced drivers schools and some barely legal tires for summer street/track use.

The latest 987S and Cayman S have more than enough power for the street. Why beg trouble modifying to feature match performance numbers against other cars you might never encounter in a mano y mano road duel?

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Nov 3, 2006 8:41:43 AM

Jeannot: Expert; Loc: Currently in Hong-Kong , Switzerland; Posts: 1745, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 13, 2005; Reply to: JimFlat6

Re: Wiping the grin off smug 911ers.....

Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
Why beg trouble modifying to feature match performance numbers against other cars you might never encounter in a mano y mano road duel?

This is so true and wise...on open roads it does not make sense. Performance is in a way flattened by traffic etc.
But then it depends if drag race at red light or high speed chase on the autobahn is something you do...
I would not bother for an extra 20hp...and potentially break warranty or anything else. These 20hp is not going to make SUCH a difference on open road and only will make some company richer

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Nov 3, 2006 4:40:48 PM

easy_rider911: Rennteam VIP; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 22190, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 8, 2004; Reply to: Jeannot

Re: Wiping the grin off smug 911ers.....

When I read this, the first image that entered my mind was this....you go to the supermarket and buy a beautiful sponge base for a cake. Then you ask somebody to do the icing on it for you. You know the result...It's cheaper in the long run to buy a ready-iced cake right from the start if that's what you wanted all along...

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Nov 3, 2006 7:10:23 PM

adrift: Co-Pilot; Loc: Texas; Posts: 277, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 8, 2005; Reply to: JYH

Re: Wiping the grin off smug 911ers.....

www.rufautocentre.com

Ask for Hans or Wayne.

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Nov 17, 2006 9:18:38 PM

GA997S: Veteran; Loc: Athens, Georgia, USA; Posts: 1059, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 19, 2005; Reply to: easy_rider911

Re: Wiping the grin off smug 911ers.....

Quote:
easy_rider911 said:
When I read this, the first image that entered my mind was this....you go to the supermarket and buy a beautiful sponge base for a cake. Then you ask somebody to do the icing on it for you. You know the result...It's cheaper in the long run to buy a ready-iced cake right from the start if that's what you wanted all along...

That's exactly what I was thinking.

this guy will put a 3.8 in the Cayman
web page

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Nov 18, 2006 12:39:56 AM

wushuhsu: Junior; Loc: California; Posts: 88, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 10, 2006; Reply to: GA997S

Re: Wiping the grin off smug 911ers.....

What about the Orton supercharger?

http://www.caymanclub.net/showthread.php?t=6730

(Hate to post a Cayman Club link here. Those guys think Porsche can do no wrong and the Cayman is perfect as is, without any more horsepower that it desparately needs.)

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Nov 18, 2006 8:57:29 AM

dreamcar: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Hampshire , United Kingdom; Posts: 8797, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 19, 2004; Reply to: wushuhsu

Re: Wiping the grin off smug 911ers.....

Quote:
wushuhsu said:
Hate to post a Cayman Club link here. Those guys think Porsche can do no wrong and the Cayman is perfect as is, without any more horsepower that it desparately needs.)

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Nov 22, 2006 10:12:01 PM

icon: Pilot; Loc: birmingham.al.usa.na; Posts: 442, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 13, 2006; Reply to: dreamcar

farnbacher-loles gtr

what about the farnbacher-loles gtr?

http://farnbacherloles.com/

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Nov 27, 2006 3:32:32 AM

cnc: Co-Pilot; Loc:; Posts: 197, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 21, 2003; Reply to: icon

Re: farnbacher-loles gtr

The 997 GT3 makes the grin even bigger!

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Nov 30, 2006 4:41:58 PM

WC996: Junior; Loc: Solana Beach, CA USA; Posts: 78, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 31, 2003; Reply to: JYH

Re: Wiping the grin off smug 911ers.....

We www.mindovermotorsports.com have one complete now and are just waiting on ECU flash to accomodate the X51 3.8 and one off headers and exhaust. It's already a monster and the sound is incredible. We had the first PSS9 set available also but will likely be moving to Motons. As others have pointed out however this surgey is not cheap by any means!

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Dec 1, 2006 5:05:28 PM

RC: Rennteam Administrator; Loc: Rennteam HQ , Germany; Posts: 59580, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 26, 2002; Reply to: JYH

Re: Wiping the grin off smug 911ers.....

Oh boy...

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Dec 1, 2006 10:18:04 PM

fritz: Rennteam VIP; Loc: BaWü , Germany; Posts: 10248, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 23, 2003; Reply to: JYH

Re: Wiping the grin off smug 911ers.....

Quote:
JYH said:
Jim - thanks for the tip. Would there be any compatibility issues with implanting the 911 engine into the Cayman; given that it is meant to be rear-situated? I know that sounds really naive and ignorant but you can never be too sure!

Another tip re compatibility:

Do something about the transmission before you install it the other way around.

Unless you think you'd like to get used to one forward and six reverse gears.

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Dec 1, 2006 11:11:39 PM

JimFlat6: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Cave , United States; Posts: 8633, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 25, 2004; Reply to: fritz

Re: Wiping the grin off smug 911ers.....

Quote:
fritz said:
Quote:
JYH said:
Jim - thanks for the tip. Would there be any compatibility issues with implanting the 911 engine into the Cayman; given that it is meant to be rear-situated? I know that sounds really naive and ignorant but you can never be too sure!

Another tip re compatibility:

Do something about the transmission before you install it the other way around.

Unless you think you'd like to get used to one forward and six reverse gears.

That is the Australian version

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/10/07/ap/strange/mainD8KJG4081.shtml

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Dec 2, 2006 12:10:33 AM

Turbo Al: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Rochester, New York , United States; Posts: 2531, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 3, 2005; Reply to: JimFlat6

Re: Wiping the grin off smug 911ers.....

Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
Quote:
fritz said:
Quote:
JYH said:
Jim - thanks for the tip. Would there be any compatibility issues with implanting the 911 engine into the Cayman; given that it is meant to be rear-situated? I know that sounds really naive and ignorant but you can never be too sure!

Another tip re compatibility:

Do something about the transmission before you install it the other way around.

Unless you think you'd like to get used to one forward and six reverse gears.

That is the Australian version

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/10/07/ap/strange/mainD8KJG4081.shtml

Jim,

Did they clock his 0-60 time?

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Dec 2, 2006 8:17:39 PM

fritz: Rennteam VIP; Loc: BaWü , Germany; Posts: 10248, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 23, 2003; Reply to: Turbo Al

Re: Wiping the grin off smug 911ers.....

Quote:
Turbo Al said:
Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
Quote:
fritz said:
Quote:
JYH said:
Jim - thanks for the tip. Would there be any compatibility issues with implanting the 911 engine into the Cayman; given that it is meant to be rear-situated? I know that sounds really naive and ignorant but you can never be too sure!

Another tip re compatibility:

Do something about the transmission before you install it the other way around.

Unless you think you'd like to get used to one forward and six reverse gears.

That is the Australian version

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/10/07/ap/strange/mainD8KJG4081.shtml

Jim,

Did they clock his 0-60 time?

Yes. It came out at minus 5.9 seconds.

Well, he was in reverse gear!

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Dec 3, 2006 2:28:24 AM

Turbo Al: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Rochester, New York , United States; Posts: 2531, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 3, 2005; Reply to: fritz

Re: Wiping the grin off smug 911ers.....

Quote:
fritz said:
Quote:
Turbo Al said:
Quote:
JimFlat6 said:
Quote:
fritz said:
Quote:
JYH said:
Jim - thanks for the tip. Would there be any compatibility issues with implanting the 911 engine into the Cayman; given that it is meant to be rear-situated? I know that sounds really naive and ignorant but you can never be too sure!

Another tip re compatibility:

Do something about the transmission before you install it the other way around.

Unless you think you'd like to get used to one forward and six reverse gears.

That is the Australian version

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/10/07/ap/strange/mainD8KJG4081.shtml

Jim,

Did they clock his 0-60 time?

Yes. It came out at minus 5.9 seconds.

Well, he was in reverse gear!

Almost as fast as stock going forwards!

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Dec 12, 2006 5:07:07 PM

WD: Newbie; Loc: San Diego, CA; Posts: 8, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 6, 2006; Reply to: JimFlat6

Re: Wiping the grin off smug 911ers.....

I have been a member of this forum for quite some time, and visit regularly.
I am also a member of Caymanclub.net, and visit it regularly as well.
I find comments like "Hate to post a Cayman Club link here. Those guys think Porsche can do no wrong and the Cayman is perfect as is, without any more horsepower that it desparately (sic) needs", to be uninformed. There have been countless threads discussing the perceived lack of power in the Cayman, and even more on how to increase it.
Like all forums, it has its good points and its bad, although in my opinion, it is an excellent forum for the Cayman owner. There are frank and open discussions related to the Cayman faults, and comparisons to other sports cars. As you might expect, it is biased toward the Cayman.
As a first time Porsche owner, I have found both forums to be an excellent place to find information on these fine cars.

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Dec 13, 2006 6:13:13 AM

wushuhsu: Junior; Loc: California; Posts: 88, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 10, 2006; Reply to: WD

Re: Wiping the grin off smug 911ers.....

If you ever suggest that the Cayman is underpowered and overpriced on caymanclub.net or even imply that you might consider any other manufacturer's car, you're immediately deluged with brilliant replies like

"Porsche is the most profitable company in the world. They know what they're doing." How condescending is that?

"A Porsche is a Porsche is a Porsche." You can't argue against brilliant logic like that.

"Horsepower is never cheap in a Porsche." What does that have to do with anything?

"The Cayman doesn't need any more power." What?

The club there is dominated by people who already have a Cayman and don't want Porsche to make any improvements whatsoever to it. Unfortunately, they're also not the people who'll be buying Porsches in the near future and they definitely won't be buying any more Porsches unless Porsche makes significant upgrades to the Cayman. So their opinion should count the least with the ever profit-oriented Porsche.

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Dec 13, 2006 3:06:59 PM

WD: Newbie; Loc: San Diego, CA; Posts: 8, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 6, 2006; Reply to: wushuhsu

Re: Wiping the grin off smug 911ers.....

If you ever suggest that the Cayman is underpowered and overpriced on caymanclub.net or even imply that you might consider any other manufacturer's car, you're immediately deluged with brilliant replies like

"Porsche is the most profitable company in the world. They know what they're doing." How condescending is that?
Condescending to whom? It is a Porsche forum, almost exclusively populated by Porsche enthusiasts'. To be condescending, you must first have someone to target for your condescension

"A Porsche is a Porsche is a Porsche." You can't argue against brilliant logic like that.
Out of context it does sound a little dumb. Man, it's a good thing we've never written anything that stupid, huh.

"Horsepower is never cheap in a Porsche." What does that have to do with anything?
Again, out of context. Many of these discussions center on adding more power to the Cayman, and how much that would cost. Strange that you should bring that one up, given the previous statements on this thread that the lack of power is never discussed.

"The Cayman doesn't need any more power." What?
Depends on your application, and driving style. As a track car, I would disagree, as a grocery getter, I would not.

The club there is dominated by people who already have a Cayman and don't want Porsche to make any improvements whatsoever to it.
I have read a few comments from people who think the car is good as is. Far more people think there should be improvements, particularly in additional power.

Unfortunately, they're also not the people who'll be buying Porsches in the near future and they definitely won't be buying any more Porsches unless Porsche makes significant upgrades to the Cayman.

There are a large number of people on the board who have owned Porsches before, and I would imagine they will buy again. Your assumption about what they will "definitely" do, assumes they will purchase another Cayman. Unless you are financing all these folks, I'm guessing that you don't have a clue as to what they would "definitely" do in the future.

So their opinion should count the least with the ever profit-oriented Porsche.
If I were Porsche, I would pay the most attention to current owners of my brand and model. After all, they are in the best position to tell me what's good and bad about the vehicle.

I'm not sure why Caymanclub.net gets bashed here so often, and if that is what you're about, so be it. I like the discussions on both boards. I would admit that Caymanclub is a more civil environment, and a place where you are much less likely to read long threads about how bad they Cayman is, or how people hope the Cayman will simply disappear when the Boxster upgrade appears. It is a relaxing community of people who love their cars. According to nearly every article written about it, they have every right to feel that way.

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Dec 13, 2006 3:29:39 PM

MikeN: Senior; Loc: Arizona; Posts: 595, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 4, 2004; Reply to: WD

Re: Wiping the grin off smug 911ers.....

Quote:
WD said:

I'm not sure why Caymanclub.net gets bashed here so often, and if that is what you're about, so be it. I like the discussions on both boards. I would admit that Caymanclub is a more civil environment, and a place where you are much less likely to read long threads about how bad they Cayman is, or how people hope the Cayman will simply disappear when the Boxster upgrade appears. It is a relaxing community of people who love their cars. According to nearly every article written about it, they have every right to feel that way.

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Dec 13, 2006 3:51:00 PM

adrift: Co-Pilot; Loc: Texas; Posts: 277, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 8, 2005; Reply to: MikeN

Re: Wiping the grin off smug 911ers.....

Can't we all just get along?

lol

Brand bickering is silly, but model bickering is even sillier, especially within what is essentially the same model. Sheesh.

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Dec 13, 2006 5:21:49 PM

easy_rider911: Rennteam VIP; Loc: London , United Kingdom; Posts: 22190, Gallery; Registered on: Nov 8, 2004; Reply to: adrift

Re: Wiping the grin off smug 911ers.....

I think the Cayman is an excellent car. Neither it nor its owners deserve a 'bashing'. Sure, one can suggest ways one might wish to improve on its already remarkable performance but that is really how such debates should be pursued IMO.

These debates appear to be part of the 'struggle' for the Cayman to establish its street cred in the Porsche line-up. On merits alone, this car well deserves its place but these things take time since some people are slower than others to accept change.

I think Cayman owners just shouldn't lose their cool in the meantime. They should be satisfied in the knowledge that they already have a simply superb car and that others' opinions are irrelevant.

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Dec 13, 2006 6:37:07 PM

mlin: Co-Pilot; Loc: Dubai , United Arab Emirates; Posts: 159, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 13, 2006; Reply to: wushuhsu

Re: Wiping the grin off smug 911ers.....

Quote:
wushuhsu said:
The club there is dominated by people who already have a Cayman and don't want Porsche to make any improvements whatsoever to it. Unfortunately, they're also not the people who'll be buying Porsches in the near future and they definitely won't be buying any more Porsches unless Porsche makes significant upgrades to the Cayman. So their opinion should count the least with the ever profit-oriented Porsche.

Now that is possibly the biggest BS flawed logic I've come across on forum.
And why so bitter and twisted?

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Wiping the grin off smug 911ers.....

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farnbacher-loles gtr

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