Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - Re: Nav is very poor design - Page3

Aug 26, 2006 3:08:02 PM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: jcs

Re: Dont buy Nav unless life is perfect or you love tech man

Quote:
jcs said:

Instead of continuing to complain about how bad the Nav system is,
why don't you just change the map display preference setting ?

Got no time! I'm in traffic. I'm late. I take an alternate route because of construction. Not my job to software engineer nav to help driver out in situations like this.

Yeah, nav works perfectly when reality is ideal. When road or route conditions change you're f'ed up.

IOW, even with to-the-inch GPS the nav abandons you when the going gets tough.

Yeah, I should have pulled over and scrambled thru the manual and "reprogrammed" the little f**ker. Not my idea of driving amid the "excellence" of a GT car though.

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Aug 26, 2006 3:35:21 PM

vtach88: Co-Pilot; Loc: bay area, ca; Posts: 272, Gallery; Registered on: May 15, 2005; Reply to: MMD

Re: Dont buy Nav unless life is perfect or you love tech man

I think you are reacting to your situation more than the NAV.

Other than lacking a touch screen and voice activation, I have no major issues with it...

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Aug 26, 2006 4:43:44 PM

GA997S: Veteran; Loc: Athens, Georgia, USA; Posts: 1059, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 19, 2005; Reply to: vtach88

Re: Dont buy Nav unless life is perfect or you love tech man

It would be nice if we could position the on-screen arrow (car) closer to the bottom of the screen showing more of where you're going as opposed to 50/50. You would have seen more with more detail but the screen would still rotate.

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Aug 26, 2006 5:23:50 PM

vtrader: Veteran; Loc: Los Angeles; Posts: 1086, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 6, 2004; Reply to: GA997S

Re: Dont buy Nav unless life is perfect or you love tech man

I lke the NAV system also. I actually got to go to a comparison focus group on NAVs and actually prefer the Porsche system. The rotation is suppose to happen, it is a NAV system and not a paper map. All NAV systems I have used rotate. Minor streets will disappear when zooming out, all NAV systems do this. Even with Google maps, they do this and they have far more display resolution than the PCM screen. My bet is that your VCR is blinking still.

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Aug 26, 2006 5:48:50 PM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: vtrader

Re: Dont buy Nav unless life is perfect or you love tech man

Please guys, I don't want to make enemies and influence foes here.

I'm just reporting how my nav system let me down in the midst of my rather important schedule.

I promose to study the manual (again!) to get some of the finer points.

The fact that it drops out streets when you zoom out a bit is really bad feature. Not only does it seem unnecessary (there's lot's of room on screen and not too many streets in the area where I was), but THAT really messes things up especially when it's not in "north up" mode.

I still love the car (and am grateful to the thoughtful suggestions of you guys here) but I was just plain pi**ed I or "it" screwed up and I was embarassingly late... .

Thanks for your forbearance too.

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Aug 26, 2006 5:50:38 PM

SoCal Alan: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Orange County , United States; Posts: 7268, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 6, 2004; Reply to: vtrader

Re: Dont buy Nav unless life is perfect or you love tech man

Quote:
vtrader said:
I lke the NAV system also. I actually got to go to a comparison focus group on NAVs and actually prefer the Porsche system. The rotation is suppose to happen, it is a NAV system and not a paper map. All NAV systems I have used rotate. Minor streets will disappear when zooming out, all NAV systems do this. Even with Google maps, they do this and they have far more display resolution than the PCM screen. My bet is that your VCR is blinking still.

I was at the same focus group.

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Aug 26, 2006 7:17:22 PM

tkids: Co-Pilot; Loc: CO. USA. , United States; Posts: 198, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 15, 2005; Reply to: SoCal Alan

Re: Dont buy Nav unless life is perfect or you love tech man

I loved the NAV in Europe. I picked up the car in Germany and drove it around for 3 weeks. The NAV paid for itself just on that trip alone. Now, I will have to see how the Software is for the USA. I have heard that it is better in Europe. Like I said, it was soooo useful in Europe for three weeks, that I now consider it just a novelty.

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Aug 26, 2006 9:30:55 PM

Eggplant Cab: Junior; Loc: Los Angeles CA; Posts: 50, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 18, 2006; Reply to: Alex_997TT

Re: Dont buy Nav unless life is perfect or you love tech manuals

While I don't have your problems, I do find it to be inaccurate. It's taken the long way round more than a few times, including making turn round an entire block when i could've taken the first right.
I agree with Alex though, the multifunction steering is good for many things even if it is a little busy looking.

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Aug 26, 2006 10:15:18 PM

rhino: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Island , Saint Lucia; Posts: 2866, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 26, 2006; Reply to: Eggplant Cab

Re: Dont buy Nav unless life is perfect or you love tech manuals

I am pretty Nav literate, but this system is lacking allot. It's a Porsche so that helps me cope with the lack of functionality. I use it mainly to know where gas stations are and I have them as an icon on the map at all times. The nav is good to find gas stations, banks and addresses. If you want to find a business by name it can't (or I have not figured it out yet). Zooming in and out with the right hand button works alright to see upcoming streets, but nothing beats a touch screen where you can scroll across the whole map. My first nav system was in a Honda Accord and no other system I have used can compare, but then again it was no Pcar

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Aug 26, 2006 10:34:06 PM

rhino: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Island , Saint Lucia; Posts: 2866, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 26, 2006; Reply to: rhino

Re: Dont buy Nav unless life is perfect or you love tech manuals

P.S. I will take the ability to drop the top at 42mph over a user freindly GPS any day

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Aug 26, 2006 10:39:51 PM

GA997S: Veteran; Loc: Athens, Georgia, USA; Posts: 1059, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 19, 2005; Reply to: rhino

Re: Dont buy Nav unless life is perfect or you love tech manuals

Quote:
rhino said:
P.S. I will take the ability to drop the top at 42mph over a user freindly GPS any day

30 mph

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Aug 26, 2006 10:45:49 PM

rhino: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Island , Saint Lucia; Posts: 2866, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 26, 2006; Reply to: GA997S

Re: Dont buy Nav unless life is perfect or you love tech manuals

Mine does it @ 42

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Aug 26, 2006 10:48:02 PM

GA997S: Veteran; Loc: Athens, Georgia, USA; Posts: 1059, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 19, 2005; Reply to: rhino

Re: Dont buy Nav unless life is perfect or you love tech manuals

I think it may initiate the windows or rear cover movement but if your top is lifting off at that speed then get it checked out!

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Aug 26, 2006 11:01:23 PM

rhino: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Island , Saint Lucia; Posts: 2866, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 26, 2006; Reply to: GA997S

Re: Dont buy Nav unless life is perfect or you love tech manuals

If you are above 42mph it stops operating, @ what mph does yours stop?

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Aug 26, 2006 11:20:59 PM

GA997S: Veteran; Loc: Athens, Georgia, USA; Posts: 1059, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 19, 2005; Reply to: rhino

Re: Dont buy Nav unless life is perfect or you love tech manuals

Quote:
rhino said:
If you are above 42mph it stops operating, @ what mph does yours stop?

31 like book says. (50kph)

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Aug 27, 2006 1:15:21 AM

rhino: Rennteam Pro; Loc: Island , Saint Lucia; Posts: 2866, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 26, 2006; Reply to: GA997S

Re: Dont buy Nav unless life is perfect or you love tech manuals

Yeah I had read the manual but I thought they were just under rating it. I will have it checked out at the dealer, but it is still very stable at 42.

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Aug 28, 2006 7:41:30 PM

STRADALE: Rennteam VIP; Loc: NY , United States; Posts: 11075, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 9, 2005; Reply to: MMD

Re: Dont buy Nav unless life is perfect or you love tech man

Quote:
MMD said:
Quote:
jcs said:

Instead of continuing to complain about how bad the Nav system is,
why don't you just change the map display preference setting ?

Got no time! I'm in traffic. I'm late. I take an alternate route because of construction. Not my job to software engineer nav to help driver out in situations like this.

Yeah, nav works perfectly when reality is ideal. When road or route conditions change you're f'ed up.

IOW, even with to-the-inch GPS the nav abandons you when the going gets tough.

Yeah, I should have pulled over and scrambled thru the manual and "reprogrammed" the little f**ker. Not my idea of driving amid the "excellence" of a GT car though.

Anything that would be simple enough for you to understand the VERY FIRST time you use it while in a major rush probably wouldn't have enough information to be useful afterwards. Like you said - then just buy a map. Fact is I've never opened the NAV part of my manual but use the map part at least 2-3 times every week for the last year plus and it works great and I'm usually a big map guy (when I'm traveling) The problem w/ maps is you really need more than one for any location because you want one large enough to see the major routes from state to state and then at least one more for street to street driving. That's the beauty of the NAV map you have like 10 map sizes in one.

Don't let the machine get the better of you. I bet if you gave it a shot locking the rotation like someone susggested (which really doesn't bother me but I get it ) and especially without being in such a rush. I doubt there's anyone here that would be able to jump in a 997 for the very first time and pick up on the workings of the NAV while in a major rush to a meeting and trying to figure it out at the same time first time out. What do you guys think? I couldn't have. It's probably also dangerous. I mean even 5 or 10 mintues playing with the system before getting in and trying it on a drive would be a big help imho.

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Aug 29, 2006 1:43:07 PM

Le Chef: Veteran; Loc: Chicago , United States; Posts: 1059, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 3, 2003; Reply to: STRADALE

Nav is very poor design

It was designed by engineers rather than ergonomicists. It's not intuitive - in other words you have to read the manual and learn how to use it. In today's world that is poor design and a very old-fashioned way of approaching a user interface and in this case a driver's AID. In the ergonomic loser awards it runs iDrive a very close second.

Porsche should hand the job over to Apple and get someone to design the thing properly. In the meantime might I suggest Mapquest or Rand-McNally?

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Aug 29, 2006 2:05:09 PM

Scotty A: Senior; Loc: New Jersey; Posts: 606, Gallery; Registered on: May 31, 2006; Reply to: Le Chef

Re: Nav is very poor design

I for one don't find the Porsche Nav unreasonably complex or difficult to use. I now have four; they are all different; they all have strengths and weaknesses; 3 of the 4 are useful tools (the MB one really stinks).

While having the map always show North-up may seem like the completely obvious default to some people (like me), others who have no sense of direction and really need the Nav to find their way may feel that they are always going forward and want the map oriented that way.

The zoom control on the P is much more intuitive than the others I have (what could beat just twisting a dial?).

Programming destinations is always a toss between a touch screen (gets really greasy from fingerprints) and some sort of cursor control; I find the P system quick and easy to use. I personally prefer touchpads, but that's just me.

I've spend almost no time looking at the manual. Well, actually, I looked through the manual in the living room, but not while I was in the car. My retention of the specific use of the various commands from the reading is pretty limited. I did get that the "Set" button is important and I should probably see what it does.

I agree with Stradale: any mapping system which had no complexity would probably be too simple to solve any real-world problems.

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Aug 29, 2006 2:26:43 PM

uzj100: Co-Pilot; Loc: California, USA; Posts: 169, Gallery; Registered on: Sep 28, 2005; Reply to: Scotty A

Re: Nav is very poor design

Quote:
Scotty A said:
Programming destinations is always a toss between a touch screen (gets really greasy from fingerprints)

And, over time the coating on touch screens can come off. Had on display on my Landcruiser (touch screen) replaced because of this.

Would be nice to see a "tilt" feature on the screen so that you could adjust the viewing angle, similar to the way you adjust your rearview mirror. Otherwise, I find the Porsche Nav just fine. Think Acura has the "real time" traffic re-route option? (Small monthly fee)

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Aug 29, 2006 6:16:14 PM

MMD: Rennteam VIP; Loc: usa; Posts: 9652, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 16, 2004; Reply to: Scotty A

Re: Nav is very poor design

Quote:
Scotty A said:

I agree with Stradale: any mapping system which had no complexity would probably be too simple to solve any real-world problems.

I *respectfully* disagree. It's like if Porsche spent more money and time finding the right outsourced software outfit to do the software for the nav (maybe include touch screen soft buttons) the thing could be muuuuuuuch better; exemplary as a matter of fact. The fact that PCM DOMINATES the interior of the car and is not-optional in the Carrera should be even more incentive for Porsche to make it the BEST (most flexible, intuitive, forgiving,) in the business.

Look at cell phones. They do a sheet-load of stuff but most people can pick one up and just use it, even use the directory function without thinking.

Our current nav is has a "punnishing" attitude. IF you push the wrong button or don't read and follow the manual you're forced back a few steps leaving you bewildered.

I don't mean to bittch and complain, I'm used to following "strict" exacting procedures every day in my job, but when I get into the car I just want simple-a**ed things like nav syatems to get the heck out of my way and direct me thru the trouble I might be having (like getting lost)... .

Sorry, again, don't want to sound like a PITA, I just want more from Porsche. Really, again, sorry for the cr*ppy mood.

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Aug 29, 2006 6:26:52 PM

Scotty A: Senior; Loc: New Jersey; Posts: 606, Gallery; Registered on: May 31, 2006; Reply to: MMD

Re: Nav is very poor design

i feel your pain :-)

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Aug 29, 2006 6:51:31 PM

Le Chef: Veteran; Loc: Chicago , United States; Posts: 1059, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 3, 2003; Reply to: Scotty A

Re: Nav is very poor design

Quote:
Scotty A said:
I for one don't find the Porsche Nav unreasonably complex or difficult to use...any mapping system which had no complexity would probably be too simple to solve any real-world problems.

On the first point, why can't it be better than it is? You're accepting it because you bought it and now post-rationalise why it works for you. Second re the complexity this is nonsense! Any complex system should be capable of being simplified so it is more usable. If a company can't do this then they are incompetent - they don't understand what people want to do with it. An iPod is complex in terms of content, but extracting that content is simple. Look at a Blackberry which is in theory complex but in reality very simple to use.

Net, net you may be able to use it but that doesn't negate the fact that the NAV system in the 997 is of very poor design.

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Aug 29, 2006 7:04:32 PM

Scotty A: Senior; Loc: New Jersey; Posts: 606, Gallery; Registered on: May 31, 2006; Reply to: Le Chef

Re: Nav is very poor design

Ah ... of course it can be better. I hope that the next rev is better so that later buyers can benefit from the free analysis and feedback that many of us are providing to Porsche. I'm accepting it because, having used three other systems already, I happen to find it pretty good. As I said, I would opt for a touchscreen system myself, but I'm pretty impressed with the interface that Porsche has developed. I really don't think I'm rationalizing.

I feel pretty free about pointing out shortcomings:

I think the lack of iPod or even an Aux input is appallingly stupid;
I think the lack of Bluetooth so I can use my own phone is cheesy;
I think the lack of a spare tire is cheap, and could clearly be engineered into the trunk (it fit in the 986!);
I think the fact that the mp3 player only picks up 160 tracks and has a 'random' feature that I could have outprogrammed in 1973 is amaturish;
Etc. etc. etc.

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Aug 29, 2006 9:01:30 PM

jcs: Pilot; Loc: nj; Posts: 308, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 3, 2006; Reply to: Scotty A

Re: Nav is very poor design

My 12 year old had no problem with it without ever looking at the manual.
I'm not implying that it could not be easier,but
some people just seem to have a problem accepting the fact that perhaps they are" technically challenged "

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Aug 29, 2006 10:55:53 PM

Dan L: Expert; Loc: Santa Barbara, CA , United States; Posts: 1957, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 2, 2006; Reply to: jcs

Re: Nav is very poor design

One flaw I did find in their execution of the nav function. They require the Longitude to be entered before the Latitude. Any self respecting navigator and pilot knows that the latitude figure is always given first.

It's little things like that, but not the overall system, that might wear on you. In general it saves me a bunch of time.

Dan

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Aug 30, 2006 1:00:03 AM

GA997S: Veteran; Loc: Athens, Georgia, USA; Posts: 1059, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 19, 2005; Reply to: jcs

Re: Nav is very poor design

Quote:
jcs said:
some people just seem to have a problem accepting the fact that perhaps they are" technically challenged "

I doubt MMD is technically challenged. I just think he's ranting because he was 15 min. late for his foot massage!

IOW,

reflexology for gas & brake but no clutch.

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Aug 30, 2006 1:00:28 AM

Trundle_GT3: Veteran; Loc: CA, USA; Posts: 1016, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 30, 2003; Reply to: MMD

Re: Nav is very poor design

Quote:
MMD said:
I don't mean to bittch and complain, I'm used to following "strict" exacting procedures every day in my job, but when I get into the car I just want simple-a**ed things like nav syatems to get the heck out of my way and direct me thru the trouble I might be having (like getting lost)... .

I gotta ask ...was this your first experience/outing with the Nav system??
Sounds like you have had the car and not used it... then had a frustrating experience on your first try when you needed it.

Trust the NAV..it works
Go off the indicated path it recalculates to keep you going to your destination...no problem

Loosen your tie a bit

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Aug 30, 2006 4:20:53 AM

vtrader: Veteran; Loc: Los Angeles; Posts: 1086, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 6, 2004; Reply to: GA997S

Re: Nav is very poor design

Quote:
GA997S said:
Quote:
jcs said:
some people just seem to have a problem accepting the fact that perhaps they are" technically challenged "

I doubt MMD is technically challenged. I just think he's ranting because he was 15 min. late for his foot massage!

IOW, reflexology for gas & brake but no clutch.

And then some people complain about the clutch in the CGT. Just no pleasing everyone.

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Aug 30, 2006 6:21:18 PM

STRADALE: Rennteam VIP; Loc: NY , United States; Posts: 11075, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 9, 2005; Reply to: Le Chef

Re: Nav is very poor design

Quote:
Le Chef said:
Quote:
Scotty A said:
I for one don't find the Porsche Nav unreasonably complex or difficult to use...any mapping system which had no complexity would probably be too simple to solve any real-world problems.

On the first point, why can't it be better than it is? You're accepting it because you bought it and now post-rationalise why it works for you. Second re the complexity this is nonsense! Any complex system should be capable of being simplified so it is more usable. If a company can't do this then they are incompetent - they don't understand what people want to do with it. An iPod is complex in terms of content, but extracting that content is simple. Look at a Blackberry which is in theory complex but in reality very simple to use.

Net, net you may be able to use it but that doesn't negate the fact that the NAV system in the 997 is of very poor design.

Find a person that's never used a blackberry or the Porsche NAV. Tell them to get in the car and drive and while driving figure out how to use each.

I disagree, I think the Porsche NAV design is excellent. Honestly wouldn't change a single thing about it. Good job Porsche!

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Re: Dont buy Nav unless life is perfect or you love tech man

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Nav is very poor design

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Re: Nav is very poor design

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