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Apr 7, 2008 2:36:28 AM
- CarreraTT
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- Loc: Spectacular Portland Oregon
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- Registered on: Jan 26, 2008
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Re: New Spy Shot, Not
There is one thing that I am much interested into when thinking about the facelift of the 997 series. Do you guys think that there is a possibility for us to see LIGHTER facelifted 997s??
I know that construction-wise it will be pretty hard to achieve a massive weight loss for the 997 product life, and maybe we can expect lighter 911s in the 998, or 991 models (no matter how it will be called)... but I am just wondering, is it possible to see the facelifted 997s, maybe 50 or 60 kilos lighter, and with a power gain of 20-30 or even 40 hp, PDK, and DFI engines, that will make one hell of a car!
Cheers!
I know that construction-wise it will be pretty hard to achieve a massive weight loss for the 997 product life, and maybe we can expect lighter 911s in the 998, or 991 models (no matter how it will be called)... but I am just wondering, is it possible to see the facelifted 997s, maybe 50 or 60 kilos lighter, and with a power gain of 20-30 or even 40 hp, PDK, and DFI engines, that will make one hell of a car!
Cheers!
Re: New pics of 911 Facelift...
Quote:
markwm said:
The facelift just hasn't gone far enough. The standard 997/S is starting to look really dated when compared against the R8 and Vantage but Porsche keep selling them so what do I know.
911 is classic design. R8 is just today's design and a big TT and its styling elements will go out of fashion in a couple of years. Aston is ok appearance wise but it is a very limited brand, coveted mostly by "English Gentlemen" so it is not really in the same market as Porsche.
Classic shapes, like for example a Rolex watch, never lose their appeal and only a fool would tamper with them for the sake of modernity and change.
Apr 7, 2008 11:25:59 AM
- Turbo4ever
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- Loc: HK , Hong Kong
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- Reply to: Fabio
Apr 7, 2008 12:28:56 PM
- Fabio
- Junior
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- Loc: Italy
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- Reply to: Turbo4ever
Re: New pics of 911 Facelift...
Quote:
Turbo4ever said:Quote:
Fabio said:
just heard today the S is getting 30 HP and not 20 as previously said. Not Bad. Moreover there is a GT3 RSR to be announced
GT3 RSR racing car?
I thought that is already announced?
Ok! sorry but i did read your message too quick!
A gt3 RSR STRADALE will be announced!!!!!!
Re: New pics of 911 Facelift...
Quote:
reginos said:
Aston is ok appearance wise but it is a very limited brand, coveted mostly by "English Gentlemen" so it is not really in the same market as Porsche.
A majority of AMV8 owners were previous 911 owners, how can you say it is not the same market? Obviously they decided to "upgrade" to an Aston and didn't get the 997TT...
Re: New pics of 911 Facelift...
Quote:
SciFrog said:Quote:
reginos said:
Aston is ok appearance wise but it is a very limited brand, coveted mostly by "English Gentlemen" so it is not really in the same market as Porsche.
A majority of AMV8 owners were previous 911 owners, how can you say it is not the same market? Obviously they decided to "upgrade" to an Aston and didn't get the 997TT...
Come on. Have you looked at 911 turbo sales number? They have sold a LOT of turbos
Re: New pics of 911 Facelift...
Quote:
SciFrog said:Would they need it for homologation?
They would need it as a reason to print money
They will sell for LOTS of money and collectors will love them.Remember, there was a street-legal (Touring) version of the 1973 Carrera RSR 2.8 and those are worth a fortune today...
Re: New pics of 911 Facelift...
Quote:
Fabio said:
Come on. Have you looked at 911 turbo sales number? They have sold a LOT of turbos
198 turbo coupe in the US from Jan to March, you think that is a lot?
450 TT cabs which is a brand new model out!
Annualized and considering US is 1/3 of world sales, that is 7,776 TT coupe plus cab. FYI Aston probably sold 4,000 Vantage annually...
Re: New pics of 911 Facelift...
Quote:
SciFrog said:Quote:
reginos said:
Aston is ok appearance wise but it is a very limited brand, coveted mostly by "English Gentlemen" so it is not really in the same market as Porsche.
A majority of AMV8 owners were previous 911 owners, how can you say it is not the same market? Obviously they decided to "upgrade" to an Aston and didn't get the 997TT...
Aston is a "gentleman's car" and not a sports/track car like Porsche. And I am not saying this in a negative way because but in a descriptive way. Aston is a good brand trying to establish itself commercially. Aston's competition is the new Maserati and maybe Bentley GT because the Aston buyer fancies the Bentley image. A Porsche person normally wouldn't be seen in a Bentley. Of course a Porsche owner can migrate to Aston but he can also buy any other brand because consumers' tastes and priorities change over time. The fact the some people go from Porsche to Aston doesn't mean that these cars serve the same purpose or have similar DNA.
Apr 7, 2008 4:10:49 PM
- easy_rider911
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- Loc: London , United Kingdom
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Re: New pics of 911 Facelift...
An extra 30hp compared to an extra 20hp would be interesting. Why? Because the X51 Powerkit only gives an extra 26hp. So it might be cheaper for owners to upgrade to the FL C2S than to get a Tequipment retrofit of the X51. I guess it depends on how big a depreciation hit they would suffer.
An extra 30hp on the base Carrera takes it up to the same output as the pre-facelift C2S. Interesting. It's better than I was expecting. I had been expecting 20-25hp.
An extra 30hp on the base Carrera takes it up to the same output as the pre-facelift C2S. Interesting. It's better than I was expecting. I had been expecting 20-25hp.
Re: New pics of 911 Facelift...
Quote:
reginos said:Quote:
SciFrog said:Quote:
reginos said:
Aston is ok appearance wise but it is a very limited brand, coveted mostly by "English Gentlemen" so it is not really in the same market as Porsche.
A majority of AMV8 owners were previous 911 owners, how can you say it is not the same market? Obviously they decided to "upgrade" to an Aston and didn't get the 997TT...
Aston is a "gentleman's car" and not a sports/track car like Porsche. And I am not saying this in a negative way because but in a descriptive way. Aston is a good brand trying to establish itself commercially. Aston's competition is the new Maserati and maybe Bentley GT because the Aston buyer fancies the Bentley image. A Porsche person normally wouldn't be seen in a Bentley. Of course a Porsche owner can migrate to Aston but he can also buy any other brand because consumers' tastes and priorities change over time. The fact the some people go from Porsche to Aston doesn't mean that these cars serve the same purpose or have similar DNA.
Vantage are cheaper than TT even in the US where Porsche prices are heavily subsidized...
Ferrari in the US is not in the same price league as Aston, every F is at least 1.5 times more in the same segment.
The Vantage was purpose built to compete with N/A 997S but with a nicer package and higher price point...
Of course they are in the same segment, just not the same price.
Re: New pics of 911 Facelift...
I will pose the same question as Scifrog.
Why did AMV8 buyers NOT buy a 911 turbo especially when many of them owned a 911 before the AMV8?
Porsche's image crisis as some of us would try and convince you of?
We could discuss this for years, but at the end of the day it comes down to AM having a better image.
The V8 is quite sporty thank you very much. The turbo is an ubercoupe, but really lacks soul.
Why did AMV8 buyers NOT buy a 911 turbo especially when many of them owned a 911 before the AMV8?
Porsche's image crisis as some of us would try and convince you of?
We could discuss this for years, but at the end of the day it comes down to AM having a better image.
The V8 is quite sporty thank you very much. The turbo is an ubercoupe, but really lacks soul.
Re: New pics of 911 Facelift...
Quote:
Moogle said:
I will pose the same question as Scifrog.
Why did AMV8 buyers NOT buy a 911 turbo especially when many of them owned a 911 before the AMV8?
Porsche's image crisis as some of us would try and convince you of?
We could discuss this for years, but at the end of the day it comes down to AM having a better image.
The V8 is quite sporty thank you very much. The turbo is an ubercoupe, but really lacks soul.
My answer: It is too much similar in appearance to the normal 911. The 911 is an affordable car competing against mainsteam brands, whereas the Turbo crosses the price line and enters a different segment. People who can pass this price threshold want something more ostentatious and more exclusive hence an Aston or a Maserati or Bentley. This is why Porsche shouls create a front engined GT/Coupe, a modern day 928+ to take on the competition. I expect this to be their next goal based on the Panamera hardware.
AMV8V
It's a great car, with a wonderful sounding engine, great styling and great balanced handling. You have to rev it more, and the driving technique seems very different from that of a 997.
The other big plus is the seemingly greater level of personalization you can have.
The 997 by comparison lacks exclusiveness and some of those GT-like sybaritic pleasures the Aston offers.
The other big plus is the seemingly greater level of personalization you can have.
The 997 by comparison lacks exclusiveness and some of those GT-like sybaritic pleasures the Aston offers.
Re: AMV8V
Three other points:
perceived performance (ie the 997TT is not faster than the 996TTS, so why bother). You are buying the dream of super duper performance, most people will never drive the car above 80% (especially in the US). The 997TT dissapointed there, so why bother with it.
real performance usage: no one needs that much power, I would feel compeled to drive much faster with a GT3 or TT to get the same sensations. So it all comes down to drive feeling and passion. Porsche does not deliver this with the TT, I have more fun in my Aston and in the Mini. I really should try an Elise.
Last is lack of bluetooth/iPod/PDK. Some will argue it is irrelevant in the TT. It is in the GT2/3 but not in the TT...
perceived performance (ie the 997TT is not faster than the 996TTS, so why bother). You are buying the dream of super duper performance, most people will never drive the car above 80% (especially in the US). The 997TT dissapointed there, so why bother with it.
real performance usage: no one needs that much power, I would feel compeled to drive much faster with a GT3 or TT to get the same sensations. So it all comes down to drive feeling and passion. Porsche does not deliver this with the TT, I have more fun in my Aston and in the Mini. I really should try an Elise.
Last is lack of bluetooth/iPod/PDK. Some will argue it is irrelevant in the TT. It is in the GT2/3 but not in the TT...
Re: AMV8V
Quote:
Le Chef said:
It's a great car, with a wonderful sounding engine, great styling and great balanced handling. You have to rev it more, and the driving technique seems very different from that of a 997.
OT:
So true, just breaking the 1,000 miles mark, I though the car was a bit underpowered, but as confidence grows and higher RPM are reached, there is plenty of power up there. More than enough to get in trouble during my daily driving in the US anyway. You need to rev the car all the way. It lacks a little torque at lower RPM, but you shouldn't spend too much time down there anyway. Downshifting is so much fun with the Sportshift...
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