Rennteam 2.0 - EN - Forum - This Month's evo: the 911 Turbo and a Carrera GT - face off - Page1

Jul 13, 2006 11:18:57 AM

temm: Rennteam Master; Loc: Oslo , Norway; Posts: 4122, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 24, 2003

This Month's evo: the 911 Turbo and a Carrera GT - face off

Quote:
The Science of Speed
Porsche Carrera GT, the new 911 Turbo, and Mitsubishi's Evo IX.
Three very special cars, three very disparate price points. Richard Meaden investigates just how much separates them, on circuit, proving ground and Welsh blacktop...

911 Turbo Group Test
...then the Turbo takes on Lamborghini's scalpel-sharp Gallardo and Bentley's plush Continental GT. Can the new Porsche be both supercar and GT? Can one really both possess and consume one's Victoria sponge? John Barker wields the cake fork.

http://www.evo.co.uk/news/evonews/68405/this_months_evo.html

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Jul 13, 2006 6:25:58 PM

xandi911: Senior; Loc: brasil; Posts: 688, Gallery; Registered on: Feb 14, 2006; Reply to: temm

Re: This Month's evo: the 911 Turbo and a Carrera GT - face off

DAMN men! the EVO IX has 345 hp??? now someone need to scan the magazine!

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Jul 13, 2006 10:41:01 PM

Grant: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Denver, CO , United States; Posts: 12585, Gallery; Registered on: Aug 21, 2002; Reply to: xandi911

Re: This Month's evo: the 911 Turbo and a Carrera GT - face off

Quote:
xandi911 said:
DAMN men! the EVO IX has 345 hp??? now someone need to scan the magazine!

It only has 286hp or so in the US. The UK has always received a large number of option packages. Even the EVO 8 was available with 400hp in the UK (FQ400 package for "F'ing Quick" 400hp)...

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Jul 13, 2006 10:45:37 PM

dhayek: Rennteam Master; Loc: Beirut , Lebanon; Posts: 3839, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 7, 2004; Reply to: Grant

Re: This Month's evo: the 911 Turbo and a Carrera GT - face off

wow !interesting issue..i dont think we will receive it soon, beirut is under invasion!

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Jul 13, 2006 10:52:25 PM

trip: Expert; Loc: Bay Area California , United States; Posts: 1691, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 11, 2006; Reply to: Grant

Re: This Month's evo: the 911 Turbo and a Carrera GT - face off

Is this issue on news stands in EU or US yet? If only available in EU at this point, could someone PLEASE scan that article. Thanks in advance.

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Jul 14, 2006 3:53:55 AM

cookie monster: Senior; Loc: US , United States; Posts: 564, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 8, 2005; Reply to: trip

Re: This Month's evo: the 911 Turbo and a Carrera GT - face off

I wonder how the EVO IX will stand up against GT and Turbo. Evo IX is really a legend in HK for those Fast and The Furious Tokyo Drift mod up crowds.

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Jul 14, 2006 4:56:03 AM

Super Darius: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Italy-Como , Italy; Posts: 4084, Gallery; Registered on: Apr 7, 2002; Reply to: dhayek

Re: This Month's evo: the 911 Turbo and a Carrera GT - face off

Quote:
dhayek said:
wow !interesting issue..i dont think we will receive it soon, beirut is under invasion!

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Jul 14, 2006 6:38:20 AM

ALDO: Rennteam Moderator; Loc: Germany, Black Forrest , Germany; Posts: 3072, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 2, 2003; Reply to: dhayek

Re: This Month's evo: the 911 Turbo and a Carrera GT - face off

Quote:
dhayek said:
wow !interesting issue..i dont think we will receive it soon, beirut is under invasion!

I hope you and your family are safe.

AM

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Jul 14, 2006 7:47:14 AM

franki68: Junior; Loc: United kingdom,Manchester; Posts: 54, Gallery; Registered on: May 1, 2006; Reply to: dhayek

Re: This Month's evo: the 911 Turbo and a Carrera GT - face

Quote:
dhayek said:
wow !interesting issue..i dont think we will receive it soon, beirut is under invasion!

Are the lebanese pissed off with the Israelis for the attacks,or for Hezbollah for acting in such a way as to endanger the lebanese people ?

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Jul 14, 2006 8:41:34 AM

dhayek: Rennteam Master; Loc: Beirut , Lebanon; Posts: 3839, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 7, 2004; Reply to: franki68

Re: This Month's evo: the 911 Turbo and a Carrera GT - face

Quote:
franki68 said:
Quote:
dhayek said:
wow !interesting issue..i dont think we will receive it soon, beirut is under invasion!

Are the lebanese pissed off with the Israelis for the attacks,or for Hezbollah for acting in such a way as to endanger the lebanese people ?

nope! everybody is pissed off with hezbollah ,hate them and want to get rid of them , the only thing we dont understand is why the israeli army is hitting the lebanese infrastucture instead of purely bombing hezbollah locations , but last night was really hot..

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Jul 14, 2006 8:49:08 AM

temm: Rennteam Master; Loc: Oslo , Norway; Posts: 4122, Gallery; Registered on: Jun 24, 2003; Reply to: dhayek

Re: This Month's evo: the 911 Turbo and a Carrera GT - face

Quote:
dhayek said:
nope! everybody is pissed off with hezbollah ,hate them and want to get rid of them , the only thing we dont understand is why the israeli army is hitting the lebanese infrastucture instead of purely bombing hezbollah locations , but last night was really hot..

Well, I'm glad you're ok

How's the Gallardo doing?

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Jul 14, 2006 8:50:21 AM

dhayek: Rennteam Master; Loc: Beirut , Lebanon; Posts: 3839, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 7, 2004; Reply to: ALDO

Re: This Month's evo: the 911 Turbo and a Carrera GT - face off

Quote:
mumbasic said:
Quote:
dhayek said:
wow !interesting issue..i dont think we will receive it soon, beirut is under invasion!

I hope you and your family are safe.

AM

thanks to all... we are trying to stay safe..

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Jul 14, 2006 9:39:05 AM

dhayek: Rennteam Master; Loc: Beirut , Lebanon; Posts: 3839, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 7, 2004; Reply to: temm

Re: This Month's evo: the 911 Turbo and a Carrera GT - face

Quote:
temm said:
Quote:
dhayek said:
nope! everybody is pissed off with hezbollah ,hate them and want to get rid of them , the only thing we dont understand is why the israeli army is hitting the lebanese infrastucture instead of purely bombing hezbollah locations , but last night was really hot..

Well, I'm glad you're ok
How's the Gallardo doing?

she is fine! i parked it in a undeground garage on -7...

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Jul 14, 2006 10:24:21 AM

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2002; Reply to: dhayek

Re: This Month's evo: the 911 Turbo and a Carrera GT - face off

Quote:
dhayek said:
wow !interesting issue..i dont think we will receive it soon, beirut is under invasion!

I was wondering what was going on with you, while watching CNN. It'll end sooner or later.

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Jul 14, 2006 10:42:30 AM

dhayek: Rennteam Master; Loc: Beirut , Lebanon; Posts: 3839, Gallery; Registered on: Jul 7, 2004; Reply to: Crash

Re: This Month's evo: the 911 Turbo and a Carrera GT - face off

Quote:
Crash said:
Quote:
dhayek said:
wow !interesting issue..i dont think we will receive it soon, beirut is under invasion!

I was wondering what was going on with you, while watching CNN. It'll end sooner or later.

thanks for the thought crash , yes i hope it will be finished before us..

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Jul 14, 2006 11:00:12 AM

Alan(NJ): Pilot; Loc: Paramus NJ USA; Posts: 403, Gallery; Registered on: Mar 29, 2002; Reply to: dhayek

Re: This Month's evo: the 911 Turbo and a Carrera GT - face

In the U.S. papers, it is reported that since Hezbollah has representation in the Lebanese government, Israel does not consider this an act of terrorism, but rather an act of war. It is widely speculated that Syria and Iran are putting pressure on Israel to de-focus world attention from the Iranian nuclear issue.

Who knows, but please keep safe.

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Aug 23, 2006 2:52:21 PM

MAVERICK: Veteran; Loc: Cincinnati, OH (USA) , United States; Posts: 1145, Gallery; Registered on: May 31, 2004; Reply to: temm

Re: This Month's evo: the 911 Turbo and a Carrera GT - face

Quote:
temm said:

...then the Turbo takes on Lamborghini's scalpel-sharp Gallardo and Bentley's plush Continental GT. Can the new Porsche be both supercar and GT? Can one really both possess and consume one's Victoria sponge? John Barker wields the cake fork.

I read this article recently and it said on British B-roads the Gallardo pulled the 997TT's pants down. The Gallardo's suspension over technical, bumpy roads was confidence-inspiring in contrast to the TT which was bouncing around.

Unless I am mistaken, they also said they pressed the sport button which would have put the PASM into the wrong mode for the type of road.

Are we being informed or misled by Evo?

Is the Gallardo suspension better than the TT on B-roads?

Have any of you driven both cars back-to-back on the same stretch of bumpy, country back-roads while experimenting with the PASM?

Can a Gallardo driver adjust the suspension from the cabin?

Is the Gallardo SE's suspension less compliant on bumpy roads than the Gallardo and 997TT?

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Aug 23, 2006 2:55:57 PM

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2002; Reply to: MAVERICK

Re: This Month's evo: the 911 Turbo and a Carrera GT - face

Quote:
MAVERICK said:
Quote:
temm said:

...then the Turbo takes on Lamborghini's scalpel-sharp Gallardo and Bentley's plush Continental GT. Can the new Porsche be both supercar and GT? Can one really both possess and consume one's Victoria sponge? John Barker wields the cake fork.

I read this article recently and it said on British B-roads the Gallardo pulled the 997TT's pants down. The Gallardo's suspension over technical, bumpy roads was confidence-inspiring in contrast to the TT which was bouncing around.

Unless I am mistaken, they also said they pressed the sport button which would have put the PASM into the wrong mode for the type of road.

Are we being informed or misled by Evo?

Is the Gallardo suspension better than the TT on B-roads?

Have any of you driven both cars back-to-back on the same stretch of bumpy, country back-roads while experimenting with the PASM?

Can a Gallardo driver adjust the suspension from the cabin?

Is the Gallardo SE's suspension less compliant on bumpy roads than the Gallardo and 997TT?

Proof that Porshe needs to introduce the X73 for the Turbo and quick. Kreso is planning to do a comparison and with luck I will be there to join him.

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Aug 23, 2006 2:58:04 PM

KresoF1: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Croatia , Croatia; Posts: 7856, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 3, 2005; Reply to: Crash

Re: This Month's evo: the 911 Turbo and a Carrera GT - face

As soon as I find some 997 Turbo(manual with LSD) we can do it! Gallardo is waiting...
BTW, check Audi R8 video thread on sportscars board.

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Aug 23, 2006 3:02:51 PM

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2002; Reply to: KresoF1

Re: This Month's evo: the 911 Turbo and a Carrera GT - face

Quote:
KresoF1 said:
As soon as I find some 997 Turbo(manual with LSD) we can do it! Gallardo is waiting...
BTW, check Audi R8 video thread on sportscars board.

I'm on it!

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Aug 23, 2006 4:04:41 PM

MAVERICK: Veteran; Loc: Cincinnati, OH (USA) , United States; Posts: 1145, Gallery; Registered on: May 31, 2004; Reply to: Crash

Re: This Month's evo: the 911 Turbo and a Carrera GT - face

Quote:
Crash said:
Proof that Porshe needs to introduce the X73 for the Turbo and quick. Kreso is planning to do a comparison and with luck I will be there to join him.

Unless I'm mistaken, an X73 suspension would not be suitable for B-roads as opposed to the the comfort setting of PSM.

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Aug 23, 2006 4:19:00 PM

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2002; Reply to: MAVERICK

Re: This Month's evo: the 911 Turbo and a Carrera GT - face

Quote:
MAVERICK said:
Quote:
Crash said:
Proof that Porshe needs to introduce the X73 for the Turbo and quick. Kreso is planning to do a comparison and with luck I will be there to join him.

Unless I'm mistaken, an X73 suspension would not be suitable for B-roads as opposed to the the comfort setting of PSM.

Au contraire. It's been made with that purpose in mind for the 996TT.

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Aug 23, 2006 4:34:58 PM

MAVERICK: Veteran; Loc: Cincinnati, OH (USA) , United States; Posts: 1145, Gallery; Registered on: May 31, 2004; Reply to: Crash

Re: This Month's evo: the 911 Turbo and a Carrera GT - face

Quote:
Crash said:
Quote:
MAVERICK said:
Quote:
Crash said:
Proof that Porshe needs to introduce the X73 for the Turbo and quick. Kreso is planning to do a comparison and with luck I will be there to join him.

Unless I'm mistaken, an X73 suspension would not be suitable for B-roads as opposed to the the comfort setting of PSM.

Au contraire. It's been made with that purpose in mind for the 996TT.

Really? From past Rennteam posts, I was led to believe the X73 made the 996TT lower, less body roll, perhaps stiffer, basically a more track-oriented suspension which yielded better 'ring times.

Are British B-roads similar to the Nordschleife? If so, then the X73 would be, as you suggest, better than the comfort setting of PASM.

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Aug 23, 2006 4:56:48 PM

WBH: Expert; Loc: CA; Posts: 1963, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 2, 2004; Reply to: MAVERICK

Re: This Month's evo: the 911 Turbo and a Carrera GT - face

Quote:
MAVERICK said:
Quote:
Crash said:
Quote:
MAVERICK said:
Quote:
Crash said:
Proof that Porshe needs to introduce the X73 for the Turbo and quick. Kreso is planning to do a comparison and with luck I will be there to join him.

Unless I'm mistaken, an X73 suspension would not be suitable for B-roads as opposed to the the comfort setting of PSM.

Au contraire. It's been made with that purpose in mind for the 996TT.

Really? From past Rennteam posts, I was led to believe the X73 made the 996TT lower, less body roll, perhaps stiffer, basically a more track-oriented suspension which yielded better 'ring times.

Are British B-roads similar to the Nordschleife? If so, then the X73 would be, as you suggest, better than the comfort setting of PASM.

N-ring is more akin to a bumpy mtn road than a smooth pavement, relatively flat track...correct?

Interesting that we've never seen N-ring times for 996TT/S w/X73....could X73 actually be at disadvantage in nonsmooth pavement setting???

Also rather intriguing that we're 2 mos post-997TT launch and P has yet to release "official" N-ring times of 997TT Tip vs Manual w/LSD in both Sport and Regular PASM settings....rather we just have a jumbled set of various magazine accel times, mixed reviews re: handling feel esp in bumpy settings/near-lim, and old "hints" re: N-ring times from Walter quotes/misquotes......

And let's not forget that subjective feel reports re: accel and handling are sometimes confounded by instrumented accel times and well-documented N-ring times.....lower, stiffer cars sometimes can be slower/less stable in bumpy twisties vs smooth tracks....and a less settled feel can perhaps cause a risk-averse amateur driver to be slower and less confident than a pro driver would be, esp on public roads vs a closed track....lots of unknowns re: 997TT, pending more detailed subjective views from credible guys like RC and official N-ring times

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Aug 23, 2006 5:10:49 PM

MAVERICK: Veteran; Loc: Cincinnati, OH (USA) , United States; Posts: 1145, Gallery; Registered on: May 31, 2004; Reply to: MAVERICK

Re: This Month's evo: the 911 Turbo and a Carrera GT - face

Quote:
MAVERICK said:
Are we being informed or misled by Evo?

Is the Gallardo suspension better than the TT on B-roads?

Autocar seems to have reached the same conclusions. I cannot believe the mighty 911 Turbo is being outclassed on real world roads by the baby Lambo. Say it ain't so:

The verdict
So in the end it was between the Gallardo and the 911. Clinical, efficient ground coverer versus highly strung but also surprisingly well resolved V10 supercar. Germany vs. Italy - for the second time of asking this summer.

I drove the 911 again and, after the Ferrari, was amazed to discover just how much body movement there is when you drive this car quickly. It's not unchecked movement; in fact, it's always perfectly controlled, and the harder I drove it the more impressive the 911 Turbo became. The way it would just stick under brakes and out of corners was genuinely eye-opening, and the sheer speed it could generate down any straight was enough to pull several yards out of the Ferrari in an instant, seemingly with no more than the twitch of your right foot.

But beside the more sorted Lamborghini the 911 felt (whisper this) antiquated in its demeanor. The Gallardo would carve its way into and through corners with absolute stability and virtually no body roll whatsoever. It also had fantastic body control and - amazingly - much more adjustability available via the throttle if either end started to run wide. The 911, by comparison, rolled more, suffered from more pitch and dive under acceleration and brakes, sounded utterly unmemorable and felt neither as well balanced nor as fluid as the Lambo in the quicker corners.

And here's the real killer. When a little later we accelerated them side by side from a rolling start at 25mph on an empty dual-lane highway up to a speed we won't be publishing here, the Lambo stayed with the Turbo every inch of the way. Take the benefits of the 911's scorching 0-30mph ability out of the equation, in other words, and they're all but identically matched on acceleration. And the fact that when I drove it back to London at the end of the day the Lambo generated less tire roar than the 911 and felt, by and large, more civilized over the exact same road, well, it just about sealed it for the Gallardo in the end.

Porsche has produced a quite astonishing piece of engineering in the form of the new 911 Turbo, no question; it's the best of its kind so far by some margin. But the Gallardo, revised for 2006, is something else again. Bugatti Veyron aside, it's almost certainly the best supercar in the world right now.
-Steve Sutcliffe /Autocar

If we believe Evo and Autocar and the Gallardo is truly better than the TT in the real world, will the R8 also give the turbo a run for its money?

What does Porsche do in return? Add a B-road mode for PASM? Or maybe an AWD Cayman?

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Aug 23, 2006 5:27:18 PM

WBH: Expert; Loc: CA; Posts: 1963, Gallery; Registered on: Jan 2, 2004; Reply to: MAVERICK

Re: This Month's evo: the 911 Turbo and a Carrera GT - face

New, revised G-car certainly is getting a few good reviews by the press, but the mkt seems to disagree

....sales keep falling...and resale values are dismal (even worse than P

)....

Need to be a lot better than competition for challenging roads and/or more daily-usable to dislodge mkt favorites like 430, 997TT or SL55.....esp the US 430 which repeat buyers drive for essentially free w/new annual replacements.....

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Aug 23, 2006 5:28:32 PM

MAVERICK: Veteran; Loc: Cincinnati, OH (USA) , United States; Posts: 1145, Gallery; Registered on: May 31, 2004; Reply to: WBH

Re: This Month's evo: the 911 Turbo and a Carrera GT - face

Quote:
VKSF said:
lower, stiffer cars sometimes can be slower/less stable in bumpy twisties vs smooth tracks....and a less settled feel can perhaps cause a risk-averse amateur driver to be slower and less confident than a pro driver would be, esp on public roads vs a closed track....lots of unknowns

Yes. And PASM is supposed to give the Porsche driver the advantage in either rough or smooth conditions at the touch of a button.

Are Autocar and Evo informed enough to know the difference between the two PASM modes? The fact that the car felt too soft and not too stiff over the B-roads suggests they were using the correct comfort PASM mode. Either the comfort mode is too soft and/or the wheelbase/track dimensions + rear-engine + tire roar acoustics is too much of a handicap, despite PTM, PASM, sound deadening materials, etc., against the '006 Gallardo.

Porsche probably needs to bestow PASM with an additional B-road mode. I doubt much can be done about tire roar.

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Aug 23, 2006 5:49:39 PM

MAVERICK: Veteran; Loc: Cincinnati, OH (USA) , United States; Posts: 1145, Gallery; Registered on: May 31, 2004; Reply to: WBH

Re: This Month's evo: the 911 Turbo and a Carrera GT - face

Quote:
VKSF said:
New, revised G-car certainly is getting a few good reviews by the press, but the mkt seems to disagree ....sales keep falling...and resale values are dismal (even worse than P )....

Mkt is based on the G-car v.1, correct? The '006 G-car is, according to Evo and Autocar, a new ballgame. And with the R8 getting ready, the 997TT will be attacked from both sides of its asking price. When was the last time the 911 Turbo had some decent AWD competition?

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Aug 23, 2006 5:58:29 PM

Crash: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Never been to , Antarctica; Posts: 8287, Gallery; Registered on: Oct 17, 2002; Reply to: MAVERICK

Re: This Month's evo: the 911 Turbo and a Carrera GT - face

Maverick, there's a review somewhere on Rennteam of the 996TT with X50 and X73 + Aerokit, made by RC. Maybe you should search there.

VKSF,
the reason Porsche didn't publish a time for the X50/X73/LSD equipped 996TT is because it would make the new Turbo look relatively slow.

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Aug 23, 2006 6:00:56 PM

KresoF1: Rennteam VIP; Loc: Croatia , Croatia; Posts: 7856, Gallery; Registered on: Dec 3, 2005; Reply to: WBH

Re: This Month's evo: the 911 Turbo and a Carrera GT - face

Regarding Lamborghini sales you are wrong... This is the best year since Audi takeover. Waiting time for Gallardo in Europe is around 5-6 months.
Also I disagree with you regarding dialy use of Gallardo. It is better as daily all year car then F430 for sure. I am telling you that as F430 owner! You simply can not use F430 in winter...
On the other hand SL55 AMG although very fast in straight line is simply not in the same class as F430, Gallardo or 997 Turbo. They are true sportscars and SL55 is NOT.
I agree with your opinion most of the times but, not this time...

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Re: This Month's evo: the 911 Turbo and a Carrera GT - face

Re: This Month's evo: the 911 Turbo and a Carrera GT - face

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